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Vote here and post your vote choice (and possibly reasons why). do you want to carry on in the streamlined old universe or would you prefer a complete fresh start?
Start Completely New (88%, 7 Votes)
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Euro's One Year Later (13%, 1 Votes)
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I have voted for a complete restart, and for the reason I stated above, I believe what is more important for a round robin is to have a consistent number of writers, especially if they are seasoned pro like I-man, Mxy, Grimm, Chewy and CJ.
As for the tone/setting, I am either for cosmic/morrisonesque or for something "realistic" like a branch of FBI or CIA composed of metas.
In the first case I think I would use a Euro with speedster power, in the second a Frank Cavalli with his enhanced smell.
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Sense of smell, I mean. 
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I'm voting on new start, as most people are voting that way and I want maximum participation. I may still use Mr. Foxe if we go for a more low-key setting, but I have ideas for if we power it up.
OOK OOK ACK EEK!
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...there's no voting button for I DON'T CARE.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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I mean, as Euro mentioned, I wouldn't mind holding onto Danny, but that was just one avenue I could follow. It's nothing I have my heart set on.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Starting completely new is the best bet for now, in my mind. While I still have plenty of ideas, most of them aren't well suited for the current writing format. If we were to start over one year later, though, I either wouldn't participate or use my little used character Kwame Mulambo from Brother's Keeper. Heck, I may still use him. I dunno. Right now, due to scheduling and lack of interest, I'm not able to write much, so if the format interests me, then I'm in.
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I´ll do whatever you guys want to.
As long as it´s a "super-hero" story, smart or otherwise.
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By the way, what exactly do you mean, Euro, when you say 'Morrison-esque'? I don't tend to pay too much attention to writers (I'm a fan of the comics, not the writers).
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He means "think outside of the box".
Another good writer who does the same thing is Alan Moore (even though he´s become a snob). Example: The Swamp thing we all love and know had a very typical origin; One man is covered in chemicals in a fire, takes a swan dive into a swamp, and resurfaces as Swamp Thing, part man part swamp.
Alan Moore (when it was his turn to write the character) took the idea further...and turned it all upside down......apparently the man who dived into the swamp really did die...but the thing that thought it was a man, was actually the swamp, which got imprinted on the psychic patterns of the dying man. It´s destiny...to become a plant elemental, a guardian for "The Green" on Earth.
He did the same for all Superman/Captain Marvel characters out there in comicdom with his comic "Miracleman" (which is by far the best metahuman fiction ever told).
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I have an idea for a story as well: Snow White. ( a story about drugdealers, we begin from the bottom "pushers" to manufacturers, and eventually we have to find the bosses, and if we want we can even take the characters to Colombia and cause havok there...in the meantime we raise important questions like; addicts and how they cause problems for their families and others by their crimes, the dealers and manufacturers who may need this "job" so they can survive.
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I'm not particularly interested in "topical" stories - i.e. ones that attempt to be socially relevant. If it happens, cool, but I've never liked when those things are forced.
Also, I think that if we do this, we shouldn't try to force anything story-wise. Let everything develop organically. If we try to plan things out five or six steps ahead, someone will inevitably come along and screw something up, making us have to go back and edit the heck out of everything we were attempting to do in the first place. That's caused us problems both in the TOMB Universe and the Vanguard U. We need to nip it now - no planning of anything. One story at a time.
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Yeah, topical is less fun -- better the Techno-Viral Alien Invasion from Innerspace than an examination of Applied Sociology in Heroic Literature...
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Whilst I'm all for 'realistic' storylines and such, topical is difficult to write without being preachy. Plus, I have a somewhat four-colour approach to superhero ethics, so I'd probably struggle with the more ambiguous side of things (not that I don't, or can't, write morally ambiguous characters, it's just not as natural to me).
As for Chewy's point about planning, I agree we shouldn't plan too far in advance, but there should be some planning at the start, possibly just a general concept and a vague plan on the ending.
OOK OOK ACK EEK!
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For planning, I am with Chewy, we must think a story at a time. Don't plan the long run, because that could work for ONE writer, not for eight (more or less).
For Morrisonesque, I think of Morrison's run over JLA, that has been my best exposure to the writer. I think especially or Rock of Ages, where in a story he crammed more ideas that in a whole run of one other writer's typical comic. I think of heroes used at their best for their superpowers, for their characters, focusing over their iconic role. I think about weird smart things (like Green Arrow and Atom taking dow Darkesid)...
The opposite thing I am interested into is superheroes in the "real world", either as "normal" people with enhanced powers, or like true superheroes threated like all-round persons like usually James Robinsosn does (starman and the Golden age, for example).
The one aspect that I liked most form the first year of Vanguard was the spy game among countries for the use of metagene, that would be fun to expore properly if done by people all interested in that. But I know is much more hard than writing cosmic stuff.
But for me, there is just one thing I am really interested into, and that is the collaborative writing. If we are able to do round robin, I'll adapt even to romance, western, fantasy. 
Since it seems we all agree on starting over, why don't you start to advance actual ideas for the first story? I wouldn't, as I started the last Universe, so this honour has to be reserved for some one other, this time.
Last edited by Eurostar; 2006-01-11 1:29 PM.
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I´m confused, just a few posts ago most of you thought that having the basic storyline planned beforehand was a good thing, now you want loose stories...
Loose stories will most likely have a tendency to evolve any way from the original idea you start with, which can be both fun and challenging, and sometimes chaotic.
Planned stories can be more focused and diverse in themes. But maybe sometimes constricting.
We need to make up our minds.
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I think they're saying they don't want to plan multiple stories at one time or planning long developing story arcs.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Post deleted by SpandexMonkeyMan
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Here's an idea, for the first story:
Somehow, the world's various governments have been infiltrated by a race of shapeshifting aliens. Not at the level of the actual leaders, but the civil servants, the guys who put stuff into practice. However, a splinter group of these aliens have infiltrated the UN (or some other major political body, we could even do something off-the-wall like Amnesty International or Greenpeace), and put together a team that will be used to destroy an alien outpost in, say, Alaska (or somewhere else real remote). The alien link to the governments and their employers will be hidden, which I think adds a level to the story.
Obviously, there are a lot of ways it could go. Will the team find out about the aliens in the government? Will they find out about their employers? How will they react?
Obviously, this is just an idea, but I'd like to hear what people think. Even if it sucks, tell me.
OOK OOK ACK EEK!
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Quote:
SpandexMonkeyMan said:
Whilst I'm all for 'realistic' storylines and such, topical is difficult to write without being preachy. Plus, I have a somewhat four-colour approach to superhero ethics, so I'd probably struggle with the more ambiguous side of things (not that I don't, or can't, write morally ambiguous characters, it's just not as natural to me).
As for Chewy's point about planning, I agree we shouldn't plan too far in advance, but there should be some planning at the start, possibly just a general concept and a vague plan on the ending.
Agreed.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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I agree that choosing between the one-year-later and the total restart is best decided by a vote. Whichever we go with, though, I intend to continue writing solo stories and feature stories with my Vanguard character, and I hope the rest of you will do the same. Yeah, the group story seems to have fizzled, but there's still a lot of good material for individual authors to pick up and run with. A total restart for group stories might do us good as a group, but not all of us are tired of all the characters that've been created. I for one would hate to see all that hard work come to nothing in the end. So I'll go with whatever we decide as far as group writing goes, but I'm not finished with all my characters - or the Vanguard continuity.
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No one said that the Vanguard continuity will be destroyed or made untouchable, there is the Manhattan story still going on, albeith very slowly, I have the Worldwalkers story that waits to be completed...
Just, if story teachs, the last time everyone wanted to continue to write about the TOMB/MBL serie side by side with the Hero Revolution one (Chewy had a cool solo series, Odissey, if I remember correctly), but in one or two month, the old Universe was all but forgotten.
In any case, anyone is welcome to continue to write the Vanguard Universe, IMO.
By the way, the Vanguard International story, the last one, was somehow slowly but not much more than the previous one, and IT HAS been completed.
If no one other has been started, I think it's not a problem of the collective writing, but of the general interest in the Vanguard continuity. The proof is that we were four at the start of this thread, when we talked about, basically, starting issue 20 of Vanguard, but when the possibility of a complete restart has surfaced, much more people are showing, with renovated interest.
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Quote:
SpandexMonkeyMan said:
Here's an idea, for the first story:
Somehow, the world's various governments have been infiltrated by a race of shapeshifting aliens. Not at the level of the actual leaders, but the civil servants, the guys who put stuff into practice. However, a splinter group of these aliens have infiltrated the UN (or some other major political body, we could even do something off-the-wall like Amnesty International or Greenpeace), and put together a team that will be used to destroy an alien outpost in, say, Alaska (or somewhere else real remote). The alien link to the governments and their employers will be hidden, which I think adds a level to the story.
Obviously, there are a lot of ways it could go. Will the team find out about the aliens in the government? Will they find out about their employers? How will they react?
Obviously, this is just an idea, but I'd like to hear what people think. Even if it sucks, tell me.
I find it very cool.
[joke mode on]Just I hope this time Chewy doesn't reserve the alien stuff all for himself, to be put to fruition after... how many years... mhhh.... never! :lol[joke mode off]
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Well, I would have, had others not had stuff they wanted to do with aliens that basically rendered all my ideas obsolete. But, whatever.
To avoid confusion, by 'not planning' I meant to avoid problems that we've had in the past by individual posters planning developments for their own characters or their own subplots that have completely eclipsed the story itself - including natural evolution of a story. In other words - we cannot allow subplots and personal planning to interfere with the greater good of the group writing dynamic. That's my key concern.
As to SpaMM's idea - I like it. Sounds like it has a lot of potential. I'd be interested in playing around with it, but will wait for everyone else's say.
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Ah yes, subplots...
The best way to handle those (in this group) may be to see them as part of the challenge, too be able to be flexible with those as well so they won´t interfere with the main story too much.
And each subplot post should be short and to the point, while main story posts should preferably be a bit longer.
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I think subplots are acceptable when they are lateral development of the same story.
I think we should aim toward a stable set up for the team, and self contained stories, at last for the first year. If we are able to survive (;)), then we could try to do things a little more complex.
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I agree with Euro. Let's keep things simple to start off with, and expand later on when we're comofrtable in the setting and what we're doing.
As for Chewy's comments on my idea, feel free to propose modifications right away. That's what made this group great, our abilityt to flagrantly disagree with each other wihout worrying about the thoughts and feelings of others!
OOK OOK ACK EEK!
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At this point, I really don't care. I'll jump in when I feel like it. Have fun.
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the voting results are:
complete new start 7
one year later 1
don't care 1 (Danny)
I think it's safe to say the majority have spoken.
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So, enough with the talk! Let's write! 
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Just like that? No brief preliminary discussion so everyone doesn't step all over each other's groove? If you must. Why not? Vanguard Classic is shot to hell, and you finally get to romp in a new playground. Go at it! 
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Eh eh.
Obviously I was joking, we still haven't chosen what kind of setting (cosmic superpowerd uberbeings or small, down to Earth characters), and what kind of characters for everyone, not to reply superpowers/behaviours...
But why are you so sad about Vanguard? Now that we are not even revamping it, Vanguard lies untouched like it was in the last eight months. Nothing really has changed for it! Be happy!
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Ok, to see if we can shorten times:
What will your character be like?
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I beleive in a mix...let everyone create a fun character they can relate to.
This is Hanna Myrrdhin aka Crasher, she will be handled as a female version of Punisher, gritty and bitter but all smiles towards her friends, and the cat on her shoulder? Time will tell...hehe...:
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Just like that? No brief preliminary discussion so everyone doesn't step all over each other's groove?
If you must. Why not? Vanguard Classic is shot to hell, and you finally get to romp in a new playground. Go at it!
Gee, I'm glad you're not bitter... especially seeing as how you were one of the first ones to stop writing in the ongoing Vanguard threads to write your own solo story that still isn't finished. Yeah... your being bitter would be absolutely ridiculous... 
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
What will your character be like?
No clue. Are we going with SpaMM's idea?
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Just like that? No brief preliminary discussion so everyone doesn't step all over each other's groove?
If you must. Why not? Vanguard Classic is shot to hell, and you finally get to romp in a new playground. Go at it!
Gee, I'm glad you're not bitter... especially seeing as how you were one of the first ones to stop writing in the ongoing Vanguard threads to write your own solo story that still isn't finished. Yeah... your being bitter would be absolutely ridiculous...
First of all, before you attempt to disparage my ability to work and write in a group, I would encourage you to head over to the RDCW (it's another forum on these boards) and take a look at what's been accomplished over there. That said, I'm going to attempt to clarify what's being said on both sides here.
If we're cutting Vanguard Classic off because nobody wants to do it anymore, then kindly dispense with the pretense of making it easier for the noobs (literal or practical) to join in. Let's see... No streamlining when I joined. Sonhaven and CJ? No total restart for them. Notwedge? Bruteforce? We forgot to cut down the universe to make it easier for them to jump in!
I somehow doubt that you'd be willing to gut an entire continuity just so a couple of newbies don't have to leave their comfort zones. Maybe it's to placate a couple 'regulars' who made a habit of outright "leaving" the series a la rex every other month, only to come back and suggest a new continuity (which coincidentally enough they'll have the chance to conform to what they want to write, instead of the other way around)? You didn't seem that intent on keeping the story open to everyone when snubbing me and several other quite capable posters from Vanguard Europe.
You definitely pinpointed what's going on here. Congratulations! You detected the overwhelming evidence of bitterness! Forget that I was willing to relearn how to write, or that I was willing to take correction from people like Doc or Grimm or Pro (very useful correction), or that I did some of my very best work in the continuity you're advocating abandoning. And I seriously doubt I'm the only one who can say that. You're damn right I'm not happy about ditching Vanguard Classic!
Oh, and I was the first one to leave? I believe I said I wouldn't be able to contribute quite as often while working on Identify (how many solo stories have actually been finished again?). I continued to post all the way through Issue 19, albeit not as often. (When exactly did I commit to being an integral part of the Murder Mystery again?) If you're accusing me of starting the chain reaction that brought things down, that's an awful lot to attribute to someone you've essentially been calling inconsequential.
The poll, like the previous two Presidential elections, forced everyone to choose the lesser of two evils - starting from scratch or fast-forwarding through a potentially vital year of continuity. I advocated neither of those, but for some reason my opinion doesn't count. The fact is, it's all the forced changes - changes intended to make VC more efficient and easier to write in - that added up and made everyone bail out in the end. Had things been left alone - with adequate aid given to help the newbies get started - we would probably be writing Vanguard International Issue 25 right now.
To be honest, I would rather vent my own opinion and be truthful about it than bottle it up until I have a good idea what everyone else will want me to say. (When exactly did you weigh in on this, Stephen? With one very well-put exception, most of your opinions in this thread have been one big  .) I'm aware that most of the people who will read this post don't care what I think about this. I'm aware that there's very little chance anything good will come out of this post. But I don't have to like what's being done to our work, and I don't have to just sit there and pretend I'm happy with things when I'm not. I'd rather be bitter than a bandwagoner.
If you can make something good out of what you're going to do now, more power to you. Writing in general is not a huge priority at this moment, being knee-deep in grad-school materials. But I'm not as eager to let go of what's been accomplished just because there are a few delays. I'd much rather occasionally write something great with a few people.
Once things die down for me and I have more time, I am going to write some Vanguard Classic stuff, and I'm going to enjoy it. I may even contribute a little to whatever this new continuity is, depending on how everyone feels at that point - and if it lasts that long. Anyone who wants to write with me is more than welcome. In the meantime, Stephen, do what you're gonna do, try learning to form your own opinions, and don't fault me for having my own.
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