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Because I want the character suprised of his own new condition as much as I am myself, while Doc gave me an Eddie that was accostumed to his own condition by a whole year.
If the end resulf is exactly the same, where is the problem?
Do not fear that I would bring in Ed, that's not my intention.
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Okay, so....Eddie remember the real world? Is that right? Cause, if so, then that only leaves one person left we have not seen that remembers everything the way it was. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping to avoid. People, we don't need to see and know every character that remembers the previous world. Otherwise, that simply shuts down future plot paths.
And, no offense to anyone here, but, no one else use Prometheus. I shouldn't have used him more than once. That was my own laziness. But, I don't want him to become a recurring character. My bad for not expressing it sooner. Thanks...
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There was another problem, Pro, or at last it seems to me: Montag is not a meta and doesn't know Vanguard, while Doc stated that he was an old associate of Edulcore. That made me think he (Eddie, from whose perspective we saw the story) knew about the past.
And I used Promethus because I took for granted that it was him the one who put the ones remembering back into the changed world.
Sorry for having misintepreted the words of Doc.
I don't want to be bothered into continuty, plus you created this story so if you don't like Eddie rembering, so I am gonna edit out my post.
Thank you very much for your confidence.
Last edited by Eurostar; 2006-03-23 9:28 PM.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
There was another problem, Pro, or at last it seems to me: Montag is not a meta and doesn't know Vanguard, while Doc stated that he was an old associate of Edulcore.
So... they can't have worked together on another project? 'Cuz that was how I was gonna write it... 
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Euro, I don't think I'm reading your English correctly. My point was, I just don't want EVERYone remembering the old world. It defeats the whole purpose of this exercise. If you want to bring in Eddie, fine. But, it would serve the whole process if he had no memory of the old world. That's all. Your call...
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
Quote:
Eurostar said:
There was another problem, Pro, or at last it seems to me: Montag is not a meta and doesn't know Vanguard, while Doc stated that he was an old associate of Edulcore.
So... they can't have worked together on another project? 'Cuz that was how I was gonna write it...
Sure, but it was not what I had intended. I have edited out my words above to better explain what I got.
And, to be clear, I have cancelled my post because was not fitting, not because I am outraged.
Frankly, I don't know if I will continue to write, but not because I am angry, just because the perspective of having a character that knows the current world don't interest me as much as one that find himself into a new world and a new himself).
I guess I will lurk around for sometimes, and then I will see.
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
...I do want to do an Icarus introspective, so - provided no one's screwed with the character since this morning before I left for work - I'll go ahead and start on that...
Finished. I'll do something with Grissom a bit later on. For now, I just wanted to deal with that. Enjoy!
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If need be I can have cross not remember the old universe, just have a feeling that something is very wrong. Kind of like he's been coming down off of a very long trip. Now that he's finally sane that everyone thinks he's crazy, it adds a sad and Ironic twist to him, I think. up to you though pro, I trust your judgement at writing more than mine. 
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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Honestly, Cross, that's kinda how I read your post in the first place. I liked it, too, by the way. Welcome to the fold! 
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also i have no plans for some cosmic being to come down and explain things to him. to easy
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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Does everyone actually understand the concept okay? I kind of hoped I could avoid literally explaining it, and let our writing define it. But, I don't want the same kind of confusion that led to the demise of the original writings. So, here is the best, loose way I can sum it up...
One Year Ago......
Mxy inadvertently (?) altered time and space. The Vanguard Universe we know was re-written. In some ways, it remained exactly the same. In others, it was completely different. The figures that lived within this universe lived their lives on, never knowing any difference.
For one year.
After one year, a figure calling himself Prometheus pulled eleven beings from the world, and rebooted their memory back to its original status. For these eleven, the last year does not exist in their memory. They do not know why they have changed in the ways they have, nor do they understand what details have changed in the world. Not yet.
Why Prometheus did this remains unknown.
The identities of some of the eleven remain a mystery.
However, these have been confirmed as remembering:
1) Ozzy Baxter
2) Lykopis
3) Adem Different
4) Victor Reilley
5) Icarus Sidewinder
6) Edmund Gaunt
7) Grimm
8) Phil's character
9)
10)
11)
The following people may remember the universe as before. But, without further clarification, it remains unknown:
Link Fox
{Euro's character}
Grissom Montag
These character do not remember the original universe:
Eddie
*Artemis Cross is a character from outside the universe, and therefore, does not count within this list. He was never part of the original universe, and therefore, can know both universes equally*
The characters main purpose for now: Find out what has changed, why, and how it can be corrected. Their mission: Locate the being known as "Mxy".
So, does this clarification help?
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For those of us who know this universe from reading but not from writing in it, I have to ask what exactly defines the limits of not remembering the past?
Is it just Vanguardians who forget, is it the whole world? If so, have things effectively not happened, or has history just been rewritten to write metahumans out? Confusulating...
Or is it just the past year that's missing? I don't know anymore!
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
Honestly, Cross, that's kinda how I read your post in the first place. I liked it, too, by the way. Welcome to the fold!
 
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Euro, I don't think I'm reading your English correctly. My point was, I just don't want EVERYone remembering the old world. It defeats the whole purpose of this exercise. If you want to bring in Eddie, fine. But, it would serve the whole process if he had no memory of the old world. That's all. Your call...
Sure, I understand.
But, please, try to understand me.
I think to have expressed clearly that what interest me in this story is just one thing: your idea of having some previously estabilished characters taken out of their world, changed by a mysterious event and put back into a world that they don't recognize.
All the rest, I don't like: I don't like that the result of this plot is that inevitably there will be much attention to what is different from previosuly, and instead of exploring new ground there will be much attention to what is now different from before, with many revamp of old caraters/event; I fear what consequencies of convoluting continuity will bring the tying of this universe with the MBL one, as we are currently witness; I also don't like much (but ONLY for my language reason) that this is as verbose and slow advancing as the last two years of Vanguard stories.
For the reasons stated above, I wanted to stay away from this story: I felt much more at eases with the premises of the MBL: stay away from past continuity, look at the future, explore new ground, use new characters and such, what we talked a lot before Gooz started it.
But your great wingbeat, of taking estabilished characters, changing them without the permissions of the others, place them in unexpected situations, is what I ALWAYS looked for in these storytellings, and stopped to find at last from "Malvana's song".
So, I couldn't stop myself to ask you to be included. You talked about eleven who remembered, so I asked for a place among those eleven; I didn't expect to have my character put suddenly in the story, as you talked about a later introduction of the rest, but I had no9 problem with that.
When I saw that Doc introduced Eddie, I found strange a so early introduction, but the fact he talked about Edulcore as having been associated to Grissom, I took it as a clue to the fact that eddie remebered the past. At that point, I "worked out" Doc's post so that eddie had not the time to become accustomed to his new condition, because that negated the reason for which I was interested to join.
I again apologize for having misunderstood; I still find the premises of the story exceptionally brilliant, just I am sad that I can't play with such a great concept.
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*Artemis Cross is a character from outside the universe, and therefore, does not count within this list. He was never part of the original universe, and therefore, can know both universes equally*
that works to
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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Quote:
cross said:
If need be I can have cross not remember the old universe, just have a feeling that something is very wrong. Kind of like he's been coming down off of a very long trip. Now that he's finally sane that everyone thinks he's crazy, it adds a sad and Ironic twist to him, I think. up to you though pro, I trust your judgement at writing more than mine.
Quote:
Prometheus said:
*Artemis Cross is a character from outside the universe, and therefore, does not count within this list. He was never part of the original universe, and therefore, can know both universes equally*
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Quote:
cross said:
Quote:
*Artemis Cross is a character from outside the universe, and therefore, does not count within this list. He was never part of the original universe, and therefore, can know both universes equally*
that works to
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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Quote:
The Indestructible Man said:
For those of us who know this universe from reading but not from writing in it, I have to ask what exactly defines the limits of not remembering the past?
Is it just Vanguardians who forget, is it the whole world? If so, have things effectively not happened, or has history just been rewritten to write metahumans out? Confusulating...
Or is it just the past year that's missing? I don't know anymore!
The ENTIRE UNIVERSE was altered by Mxy. Timelines, space, the whole strata of existence.
After one year, eleven people were plucked from their current lives and given their original memories back. Thus, they still exist as having been rebooted by Mxy....but have been allowed to remember their original existence....
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You do realize I'm going to use the Mxy answer as the ultimate 'No-Prize' to explain any long-term plans new villains have that we've seen no real indication of until I've begun posting, right?
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Okay Euro...I understand you now. I think.
The fact that you think we're exploring past continuity or revamps or some such, well, that's an incorrect preconception. This bit of the story is simply to let everyone get their legs under them first.
Second, their mission being to search out how to fix the universe does not neccessarily equate to studying and comparing old universe with new. I don't think I speak alone when I say that no one really has any intention of treading old ground in a revamped way. The fact that this story is just getting started does not allow me any examples to elude to. But, trust me. I certainly want no part of the old universe again.
Third, I know you feel that the beginning is verbose and slow. But, that is simply the point. No one should feel pressured or in any rush to push this story forward until they are ready. Nor do I want this to degrade into just a series of "fight scenes". That's why I haven't pushed any action yet. And, alot of us simply don't have the time to give to these stories. That's why this is one of those "Write if you want to..." concepts. We'll straighten the logic of it when needed. Otherwise, it's a free-for-all within...what I assumed...was a very simple concept.
I'm sorry you feel you cannot get into it. If you want to participate, fine. But, only if you want to write with everyone, and not around everyone. There is no grand purpose, or goal for these stories. Nothing important, anyway. This is writing just because writing is fun. No one was using these characters, so, I thought I would. Everyone else just decided to join in.
As far as introducing you a character, the only characters I changed were the ones no one was using. And since I thought I would just be writing it alone, I chose who they were, and how they were changed. Now that others are joining in, I want to allow them the same privilege.
There is only one rule for these stories: Give me something new.
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I want to write a character called FIGHT SCENE who runs in without exposition and beats everyone up! 
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Quote:
The Indestructible Man said:
You do realize I'm going to use the Mxy answer as the ultimate 'No-Prize' to explain any long-term plans new villains have that we've seen no real indication of until I've begun posting, right?
And that was the point of the whole thing.
But, hey, why don't you concentrate on writing some of our characters (or your own) in the story, first, before you go making villian-plans....
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Quote:
The Indestructible Man said:
I want to write a character called FIGHT SCENE who runs in without exposition and beats everyone up!
See character: "Bruteforce"
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The next person who says they don't understand.....  ....I'm going to shoot all of these people...
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Everytime we write Rob in as some sort of cosmic entity, I'm reminded of those pics of him with such a bad dye-job...
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i don't understand
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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BAM!!
....there goes half the board members...
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Haha -- not only am I not on that montage, but I now get all my brother's stuff cuz Bibbo is!
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My character remembers, Pro, just to clear the confusion...
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The "verbosity", as I implied, is a problem of just language for ME, and NOW. It takes a lot of time for me to read, and in this time of lot of work means I would post less than I would like to. But it's not a problem.
For verbosity I mean the lenght of the posts, not that they are "not fight". No one could be less interested into fight than me, and you should know.
About the past continuity, I fear it as much as you and personally I would avoid it.
About writing with and not around, if you refer to the post I did (and deleted), I swear it was a misunderstandiong od doc's writing. If you refer to the past, I have apologized for any time I wronged, while never bringing the opposite on the table.
Now, in my previous post I explained why I am interested into this story. I see you have listed Eddie among the ones who remembers.
I think a child three year old can't be aware of the world around him (aside home and parents), so I guess you can scrap him from the list.
But what interest me is that Eddie has been pulled like the other eleven from the altered reality and and has been SUDDENLY found himself grown up.
I don't know what Doc though, but what I find brilliant about his stuff is that I have to write the mind of a three year old kid into a young adult. If you give me a kid that's has been already one year in the body of an adult, the fun is lost.
So, if you concede me this, and don't consider it a lack of respect of Doc's works, but just a reallignment, I will be extremely happy to join you.
Last edited by Eurostar; 2006-03-23 10:50 PM.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
But what interest me is that Eddie has been pulled like the other eleven from the altered reality and and has been SUDDENLY found himself grown up.
I don't know what Doc though, but what I find brilliant about his stuff is that I have to write the mind of a three year old kid into a young adult. If you give me a kid that's has been already one year in the body of an adult, the fun is lost.
So, if you concede me this, and don't consider it a lack of respect of Doc's works, but just a reallignment, I will be extremely happy to join you.
Well, if you want to write him as him suddenly growing up overnight, instead of him just being part of this new universe (with no memory of the original, or the characters), that's up to you. Personally, I think it would better serve everything if he was just another character from this new universe that ends up hooking with the characters, having grown rapidly in the last year with no explanation as to how. That way, he doesn't have to be one of the eleven, but, is still "special" in some way.
But, you handle that in the way you wish. And, I have an idea on how to bring him in if you want...
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
My character remembers, Pro, just to clear the confusion...
Well, of course he does.....edited and added....
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Well, Pro, don't list Eddie as one of the eleven, he is "from this brave world" In any case he wouldn't remember anything from the the old one, so there wouldn't be any real reson to have him among them.
I still want to find a way for which being an adult is a new thing for him, as that is what interest me most, but I guess I can find one that doesn't involve being pulled out of new reality. It will take some time, maybe, but I will find something.
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Euro, have you EVER had a charactrer who ages in linear time?
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
Now, in my previous post I explained why I am interested into this story. I see you have listed Eddie among the ones who remembers.
I think a child three year old can't be aware of the world around him (aside home and parents), so I guess you can scrap him from the list.
But what interest me is that Eddie has been pulled like the other eleven from the altered reality and and has been SUDDENLY found himself grown up.
I don't know what Doc though, but what I find brilliant about his stuff is that I have to write the mind of a three year old kid into a young adult. If you give me a kid that's has been already one year in the body of an adult, the fun is lost.
So, if you concede me this, and don't consider it a lack of respect of Doc's works, but just a reallignment, I will be extremely happy to join you.
Ok, let me explain what I was attempting to do with that post. Honestly, I think you've put Educore through just about everything he can go through. I also figured that Eddie was the next character you had the most emotional attachment to. He's the younger Eurostar, so to speak. As you said, how can a three year-old mind be aware of the world around him? Especially if he's on the run? To further that, how can a three year-old mind get accustomed to growing up in less than a year (my exact words in the post. Three months, five months, who knows.)? This is what I thought I left you with:
- An Eddie left to fend for himself in a mental state where he is not capable of doing so. How can a three year-old, even in a 23 year-old's body live on his own in the world?
- An Eddie with a problem he can't understand. Once again, I just can't imagine him being used to his body. He's grown, not all at once, in less than a year. Also, is this process finished, or ongoing? Will Eddie continue to age?
- What powers, if any, does Eddie have?
- Why was Educore running? What was after him? Or what was he after? Why live the life he'd put Eddie through? Was Walker after him again (or for the first time)?
- Most important: Why is Educore dead? Who or what killed him? Was it natural? Did someone finally get to him? Could it even have been Eddie himself?
I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, but I didn't want to give a direction for the character. I thought that should have been up to you, if you wanted it. I'm willing to delete what I posted if you'd like; or you could just ignore it. You're the one writing it, it's up to you. I was just trying to give you something new with a great deal of room for you to work with, is all.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Was Walker after him again (or for the first time)?
I know you're just giving a 'what if?'... but no Walker this time around. I learned my lesson.
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Snakes on a plane, man. Snakes on a motherfucking plane.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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The new "Vanguard Issue #1" MUST be named "Snakes on a Plane"!
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Sorry for more clarification issues -- how much of the general population would know of Vanguard now? An important question for bringing new characters in at this point...
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just to put my perspective out there:
this universe/story is not about the past or exploring the changes of the world. yes, the characters are dealing with the changes they've gone through right now. that's what an introductory story is for.
once the team is settled and we move on to other stories, I imagine things will be different.
as for Grimm, I've tried to deliberately be vague about just what he does or doesn't remember. for all intents and purposes, he's a "new" character free and clean of any baggage. and I never said he was from "this" universe. so there.
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