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Oh, and since when does mild mannered Clark Kent drink beer? What happened to "I'll just have a soda"?
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Yeah...Reeve definetly had more emotion as Superman than Routh...
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Quote:
Prometheus said: Singer achieved more actual progression with the mythos of Superman in two-hours, than the comics have in sixty-years. It's about time he and Lois had a kid. And, I simply don't see this as being a problem for sequels. I want to see more about this, as the lineage of Kal-El continues on. Loved it...
So, you don't really want to see a "Superman" movie next time, you want to see a "Son of Superman" movie?
As discussed several times in the comics forum, I think the record shows that, even if you accept Lois and Clark settling down and having a kid as a "natural progression," its a "natural progression" to the last story in the saga. That's why, for example, both Alan Moore and Mark Waid wrote their "last Superman stories" to end with Clark having either a son or a son on the way.
However, even if we accept your premise that "its time he and Lois had a kid," according to this movie he and Lois DON'T have the kid. Lois and Richard have the kid.
Basically, you have Superman as a single dad, and "Superboy" as part of a blended family. Which is a fine concept in "real life." However, the more "real life" you bring into a fantasy, the more you have to deal with that "real life" realistically.
Singer has now saddled future filmmakers with having to deal with the mechanics of Superman as a single dad. What does he do for visitation? How do they explain to Richard that his "son" is an alien halfbreed? Do they explain to Richard that his friend Clark is also his co-parent? If so, does Richard feel like he has to tell Perry (who is also, technically, the kid's relative now)? At such a point, does it even make sense for Clark to keep his secret ID?
These are ideas that might, might, be interesting for an ongoing monthly comic book, told at a liesurely pace, but its a hell of a lot to squeeze into a summer action flick. And unless Singer oversees each sequel, he's (unfairly in my mind) forced other directors to deal with them.
Again, if you view "Returns" as the final chapter of a trilogy, the "Return of the Jedi" of the Superman franchise, or a filmed "adaptation" of the last Superman story, this isn't so bad.
However, just as "Return" proved to be the last adventure for Luke, Leia, Han and Vader, as written, "Returns" doesn't leave room for the kind of sequel most fans, or the public, are going to want to see.
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That all sounds like you have already limited the imagination and growth of this concept, G. It's fantasy. The son doesn't have to play any more of a significant role in the next movie, as he did in this one. It's still Superman. Just, the next stage of Superman. Something I, and obviously others, have been waiting to see all their life. Restricting the concept to certain parameters is, in the end, a truly stagnating path to follow.
Bring on 'Son of Superman'. It'll be far more entertaining and interesting than "Oh look, Clark is Superman. Lois loves Superman, dislikes Clark, and...ummm...Lex is evil." over, and over, and over, and over, and over....
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
That all sounds like you have already limited the imagination and growth of this concept, G. It's fantasy. The son doesn't have to play any more of a significant role in the next movie, as he did in this one.
The kid was a major plot point in this film. If you don't expand on that you basically have the validated Byrne's theory that they made Superman a "deadbeat dad."
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Bring on 'Son of Superman'. It'll be far more entertaining and interesting than "Oh look, Clark is Superman. Lois loves Superman, dislikes Clark, and...ummm...Lex is evil." over, and over, and over, and over, and over....
I admit it is possible to do a fun, intelligent movie about a superhero coming out of retirement, and learning his son has superpowers. But Disney already did "the Incredibles."
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It's still Superman. Just, the next stage of Superman. Something I, and obviously others, have been waiting to see all their life. Restricting the concept to certain parameters is, in the end, a truly stagnating path to follow.
But maybe not enough people.
The early returns are indicating that the movie is not living up to expectations, that the film is struggling at the box office and, in fact, the box office take is dropping as word of mouth spreads about the film.
Why is it dropping? Perhaps because the general public, the people who dont read the comics monthly, don't have the same need to see something new.
Again, I think there is a lot to recommend about this movie, but perhaps the downbeat ending is leaving a bitter taste with the general public.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
If you don't expand on that you basically have the validated Byrne's theory that they made Superman a "deadbeat dad."
Oh come on. You're actually applying, not only, a crazed, attention whoring hack's selfish rant, but, real-life paternal ethics to something as arbitrary as a comic book character's illegitimate child?
The next movie:
Clark: "Where's Jason?"
Lois: "Staying with my parents for the summer."
Done and done. See? It doesn't take alot of effort to eliminate that so-called "serious" factor for a story. Just saying...
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I admit it is possible to do a fun, intelligent movie about a superhero coming out of retirement, and learning his son has superpowers. But Disney already did "the Incredibles."
And the Fantastic Four did this, as well. So, I mean...what's your point?
Quote:
The early returns are indicating that the movie is not living up to expectations, that the film is struggling at the box office and, in fact, the box office take is dropping as word of mouth spreads about the film.
Why is it dropping? Perhaps because the general public, the people who dont read the comics monthly, don't have the same need to see something new.
If the common 'American Idol'-ized sheep can't tolerate progression, don't color me surprised. Common Man #7's opinion and judgements on this point usually only last as long as it takes to take a leak after the movie is over. So, it's barely relevant to my opinion on this matter.
And, the amount of money a movie makes does not a worthy judgement of a movie make. Not only can you not count on the common man to have any real substantial validating opinion on the worthiness of a movie, but, if anything, modern times have shown that most all box office numbers are becoming secondary to the DVD sales. So Superman Returns doesn't break the box office limits? Big deal. It still stands as light-years ahead of such craptacular spectacles as X3, and the like...
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he was SPOILED BY SMALLVILLE
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle
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in more ways than one. 
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 Oh Al.... 
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not now, Peg! can't you see I'm trying to enjoy myself?! 
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Big A....he was "spoiled by Smallville"...
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I'll take your word for it. I thought my Married. . .With Children reference was funny. 
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I laughed. Just not outloud...
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Ok, here's my quickie review with spoilers. I'm sorry if I repeat anything that was already said, I'm going to go back and read the thread after I post.
Honestly...I thought it was terrible.
Pros:
The special effects were terriffic ($260 million, so they damn well better be). Everyone I saw it with agreed that the effects on his cape were some of the best effects ever on the screen. James Marsden was fantastic, and was the only character I felt for in the entire film. Makes X-3 look even worse in my opinion because he should have taken all of Hallie Barry's screen time.
Cons:
Illegal Machine transform into *RANT MODE*
A) When did Pa' kent die? Was it in Superman 2? Its been too long. If he was dead before Clark left for Krypton....that means that he left the very elderly Ma' Kent...by herself...in the middle of Kansas...for FIVE YEARS BY HER SELF!?
What a hero.
B ) Since when is the Daily Planet a day care center? The kid was at the office EVERY day. Why? The only time he wasn't there was when Lois "picked him up from school" which lead me to my next point...
C) Lois Lane is the WORST parent....EVER! Ok, nevermind the fact that the kid LIVES at the Daily Planet, but she insists on LUGGING the poor kid into potentially dangerous situations?
Why did she take the kid onto Lex's boat with her!? Jesus Christ! Then, when Superman saves them from the sinking ship and helps the family's plane take off...LOIS INSISTS THEY TURN AROUND!?!? TO PUT HER KID AND FIANCE' BACK IN DANGER!? WTF!?
D) The "super-baby" stunt. Isn't more of a move that is made when a franchise is played out? Like, "Uh....what else do we do....LETS HAVE LOIS HAVE SUPERMAN's BABY!!"
But wait...isn't this the "first" (as in it's the first of this generation's superman movies)? Huh?
Now they have to find a way to work this damn kid in to every freaking movie.
And how didn't James Mardsen's character NOT know the kid isn't his? Unless Lois banged Superman and then let this guy "tap it" within a month?
9 months people!
E) So now actors don't act like characters....they act like actors?
"Brandon Routh is Christopher Reeves and Kevin Spacey is Gene Hackman in SUPERMAN!!"
I'm not going to dwell on this one. I'm sure everyone noticed this.
F) Ok...so did the island drain Superman's powers or was it the blocking of the sun by the clouds? Well...if it was the island...how did he lose his powers so fast before but he had plenty of time to lift the island out of the water....and if he lost his powers and fell out of the sky...why didn't he burn up in the atmosphere or die when he hit the ground?
G) Why don’t we get to know any of these characters? Why didn’t Jimmy Olson and Clark go out to lunch and talk about Lois, and what had happened over the last 5 years?
We get to “know” Peter Parker. Why don’t we get to “know” Clark Kent?
H) What was with the “dramatic music” and zoom when the kid reaches for the door handle when he and Lois are locked in the freezer on the boat? We already know he has Super powers. Remember the piano? It happened like a couple of minutes before that scene. Was there any REAL question that HE was the one that KILLED that guy with the piano?
I) I don’t mind suspending my disbelief with the space shuttle scene or even the “Superman lifting the island scene” but what’s with Lois getting ANNHILATED by that door on the boat and not even bleeding? Really…there was not a drop of blood in the whole film. MAYBE some on the Kryptonite knife when they pulled it out of him. But NONE while it was in him.
And why didn’t they just use a REGULAR knife. He’d lost his powers right?
J) It was WAYYYYY too long. An frankly boring as hell. I nearly fell asleep and one girl with us went to sleep twice.
K) AND FINALLY, Superman and my father have something in common. My dad ran off to "Krypton", never paid child support, and left his kids to be raised by other men.
This movie was the Increadible Hulk.
A long, boring, poorly acted, big budget let-down.
It will have a pretty big opening week/weekend and then CRASH next weekend.
It'll get Jack SparroWn3d next weekend.
Last edited by Illegal Machine; 2006-07-03 3:25 AM.
 "to ill mac - not unlike bbvl, your appreciation for naked or near-naked hot wimmins astounds me. if i ever provide an incomplete hot girl of the week review, you're always there to step up to the plate, and provide my needy fans with the appropriate boob and/or butt. i could not be more proud of you." -Gob (At 10,000 posts) ----------- Tony Stark: Cool Exec. Heart of Steel.
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That's why I really wish the "Why the world needs Superman" subplot was played up more. Subplots in the Spider-Man movies made them great. 'Course that and Spider-Man is a 3 dimensional character anyway, I can see how writing Superman can get hard after a while. Now watch the first Superman movie and see exactly how much dialogue was ripped straight from it.
Oh, Clark doesn't drink beer.
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Quote:
Illegal Machine said:
When did Pa' kent die? Was it in Superman 2? Its been too long. If he was dead before Clark left for Krypton....that means that he left the very elderly Ma' Kent...by herself...in the middle of Kansas...for FIVE YEARS BY HER SELF!?
What a hero.
Assuming they are going with the continuity of the Donner films, Pa died when Clark was a teenager.
Leaving Ma in Kansas is hardly a big deal. She grew up there. Lots of elderly people live by themselves on farms in the midwest quite safely.
Quote:
This movie was the Incredible Hulk.
A long, boring, poorly acted, big budget let-down.
I liked it a lot better than the Hulk. However, I think there is an apt comparison to be made, insofar as both films were marred by the fact that a normally talented director decided to impose/shoehorn his own themes onto the character whether those themes really fit or not.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I liked it a lot better than the Hulk. However, I think there is an apt comparison to be made, insofar as both films were marred by the fact that a normally talented director decided to impose/shoehorn his own themes onto the character whether those themes really fit or not.
I think I liked it better than the Hulk, too, but that isn't saying much.
As long as we both agree that Super-Kid was a BAAAAAD idea....
"to ill mac - not unlike bbvl, your appreciation for naked or near-naked hot wimmins astounds me. if i ever provide an incomplete hot girl of the week review, you're always there to step up to the plate, and provide my needy fans with the appropriate boob and/or butt. i could not be more proud of you." -Gob (At 10,000 posts) ----------- Tony Stark: Cool Exec. Heart of Steel.
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Quote:
Illegal Machine said:
As long as we both agree that Super-Kid was a BAAAAAD idea....
Oh, yeah....
Quote:
the G-man said:
Just got back from seeing it.
******
The only two cast members who didn't work for me were Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane, and "the kid."
*****
The kid,.... WAS overtly terrible. I mean "Jake Lloyd as Anakin" bad. In nearly every scene he acted either autistic (staring ahead with creepy blankness) or, in one scene (running around with a trash can on his head, bumping into doors) retarded.
*****
Even putting aside his terrible performance, the inclusion of the kid in the storyline hurt the film...and probably the chances for a good sequel. I realize that Singer was going for a theme that Superman was more noble to give up his child and let him be raised by humans (the way Clark was) in order to drive home an "adoption is good" point.
I also think that, if you look at this as the third film in a "Superman trilogy," the inclusion of the kid was not a terrible endnote.
However, this isn't the final film in a trilogy. Its the (hopefully) first film in a kickstarted franchise. And, by doing the story with the kid, Singer wrote a movie that hamstrings us to a "movie continuity" that
We now have a Superman who has a son living with Perry White's nephew and Lois. A son who thought his father was Richard White. A son who is developing powers and is going to find out that everything he has been told is a lie. A son who didn't lose his father because his father was blown up on a distant planet, but a son who lost his father because, basically, his father left him.
A son who already killed one man, albeit in self defense.
That's a lot of potentially dark, heady, decidely unSupermanesque, material that now has to be dealt with in the sequel. Meaning that, unlike Batman Begins, which gave us a clean slate, Singer has scribbled all over the slate right off the bat.
While I won't go all John Byrne and claim its out of character for Superman to have left the kid (I can see arguments for what he did), I think it creates a situation where Singer boxed in the writers and directors of any future films and forced them have to tell a somewhat linear story about...the kid, instead of making the next films more in line with the comics. In fact, I would think Byrne would LOVE this, since it reminded me of nothing so much as some of his themes in the "Generations" books.
Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, giving Superman an heir feels like an ending, not a beginning. This was demonstrated by the speech Superman made to the sleeping kid at the end, which was largely what Jor-el said to him as a goodbye. It came off like a passing of the torch to the next generation of "Supermen," not the beginning of a never ending battle.
And, as noted above, that made the ending a bit of a downer. It felt like, instead of "Superman returns" we got "Superman came back, but now he has to leave again and mope."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I liked it a lot better than the Hulk. However, I think there is an apt comparison to be made, insofar as both films were marred by the fact that a normally talented director decided to impose/shoehorn his own themes onto the character whether those themes really fit or not.
Where did Ang Lee do that? I think Hulk was more marred by Universal wanting a superhero movie for a character that isn't a superhero.
I have no problems with the kid in the Superman movie. I feel that any importance it had was tossed out the window by the bad acting. And I'll wait until the next movie (if there is one) to see if Singer actually added something to the Superman mythos or was just pulling ideas out of his ass.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Lee's whole "Father and Son" theme
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The "Father and Son" theme is from the comics. No necessarily in that form, but it's there. As Peter David showed, Banner's father is a big reason for the creation of the Hulk id.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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I talked to one of our work studies downstairs while running some errands earlier. She saw the movie over the weekend, hasn't read the comics, nor is she very familiar with the original Donner movie, though she's aware of it. She pretty much said what I did, minus the part about copying the Donner film. She thought it looked and sounded great, but that the acting was bad and the story made little sense. She couldn't understand how Superman could lift an island that damn near killed him just a few minutes before. Or how, if he was weak enough to be kicked around by a buncha thugs and bleed earlier, when he's near death a syringe can't pierce his skin.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
The "Father and Son" theme is from the [Hulk] comics. Not necessarily in that form, but it's there.
Yeah, but it was the way that Lee made it so prominent to the point of overwhelming. It just seemed as if he was trying too hard when the main theme of the Hulk has always been "the beast within."
Similary the theme of "adoption" has always been part of Superman but Singer decided he wanted to drive the point home with a sledgehammer. So rather than simply play up the obvious themes of how Kal-El was adopted by the Kents, Singer decided to give us the illegitimate Superboy and a Man of Steel who is noble to leave his son with Richard White as if letting someone think a child is his is a form of adoption.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
The "Father and Son" theme is from the comics. No necessarily in that form, but it's there. As Peter David showed, Banner's father is a big reason for the creation of the Hulk id.
Yeah, the problem was(and I'd like to think this was something the studio was pushing for, not Lee) that they took it too literally. Banner's father was not supposed to be an actual antagonist, but a figurative one.
Quote:
thedoctor said:
I talked to one of our work studies downstairs while running some errands earlier. She saw the movie over the weekend, hasn't read the comics, nor is she very familiar with the original Donner movie, though she's aware of it. She pretty much said what I did, minus the part about copying the Donner film. She thought it looked and sounded great, but that the acting was bad and the story made little sense. She couldn't understand how Superman could lift an island that damn near killed him just a few minutes before. Or how, if he was weak enough to be kicked around by a buncha thugs and bleed earlier, when he's near death a syringe can't pierce his skin.
I didn't think the acting was that bad. Bosworth was terrible, but otherwise, I thought it was a pretty solid ensemble. As I predicted, nothing was done to alter the trend of having a useless lead female character who constantly screws up and exists purely to distract the hero.
Overall, and I might be alone on this one, I thought Routh did a pretty terrific job. He was perfect as Superman, visually and verbally. He wasn't that good as Clark Kent, but Kent was almost superfluous in the movie anyway.
The lifting of the island thing was a tad ridiculous, but, really...was it more ridiculous than turning back time by flying really fast? I guess we were supposed to believe that his recharging gave him the strength to repel the kryptonite's effects long enough to get it into orbit(and then enough strength to survive the fall back to Earth).
Frankly(and yes, I'm aware it was continuing a trend from the old film), I found that a lot more believable than a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who asks her editor how many f's are in the word "catastrophic".
In the end, I must admit, I really enjoyed this film. I wish Singer would have tried to make the film more his own, than simply an homage to Donner, but oh well.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Overall, and I might be alone on this one, I thought Routh did a pretty terrific job. He was perfect as Superman, visually and verbally. He wasn't that good as Clark Kent, but Kent was almost superfluous in the movie anyway.
The lifting of the island thing was a tad ridiculous, but, really...was it more ridiculous than turning back time by flying really fast? I guess we were supposed to believe that his recharging gave him the strength to repel the kryptonite's effects long enough to get it into orbit(and then enough strength to survive the fall back to Earth).
 
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Actually...I think he was my weak-link. I very much prefer the chain-smoking, fast-talking, verge-of-a-heart-attack Perry from the original films (can't remember his name, but, he directed a few seasons of MASH) that the Spidey films' J. Jonah Jameson outright mimicks...
Well, I agree that J.K Simmon's performance in Spidey was terrific and that Singer probably wanted to have that same kind of scene-stealing performance from Langella, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it was a mimick, considering Stan Lee essentially stole the character(and changed Daily Planet to Daily Bugle) after Perry White had been around from decades. Langella was just following the character, I thought.
Oh, and Jackie Cooper, the famous child actor from the Little Rascals serials, was Perry in the first films.
Like you, I didn't mind the kid angle. It was ballsy, and sets up a potentially awesome sequel, I think. Which would be appropriate, as I have always thought that Superman II was better than Superman.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Animalman said:
Well, I agree that J.K Simmon's performance in Spidey was terrific and that Singer probably wanted to have that same kind of scene-stealing performance from Langella, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it was a mimick, considering Stan Lee essentially stole the character(and changed Daily Planet to Daily Bugle) after Perry White had been around from decades. Langella was just following the character, I thought.
Okay, wait....are you saying that the film J.Jonah wasn't a mimick of the film Perry....or that comics were/weren't? Confusion. I would think, if we're going just straight comic-to-film, then, Cooper's Perry was something of a new take on a two-dimensional comic book character. And, as J.Jonah in the comics was always more of a loud blowhard, than the fast-talking blowhard that the film version was, then, I would think Raimi/Simmon's Jonah was more of a throwback to Cooper, as opposed to the comics. I think...
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Oh, and Jackie Cooper, the famous child actor from the Little Rascals serials, was Perry in the first films.
Holy crap! He was a Little Rascal? Really? Which one? I've always LOVED Cooper's Perry White. What a great performance... 
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Like you, I didn't mind the kid angle. It was ballsy, and sets up a potentially awesome sequel, I think. Which would be appropriate, as I have always thought that Superman II was better than Superman.
Absolutely! Give me something new over same-old, same-old...
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the G-man said:
So rather than simply play up the obvious themes of how Kal-El was adopted by the Kents, Singer decided to give us the illegitimate Superboy and a Man of Steel who is noble to leave his son with Richard White as if letting someone think a child is his is a form of adoption.
I would've agreed with this ending if they made it clear that he wanted his son to have a normal youth and that Superman would watch over him and then come clean later.
But this way it does look really bad for him.
Bow ties are coool.
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Prometheus said:
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Animalman said:
Overall, and I might be alone on this one, I thought Routh did a pretty terrific job. He was perfect as Superman, visually and verbally. He wasn't that good as Clark Kent, but Kent was almost superfluous in the movie anyway.
The lifting of the island thing was a tad ridiculous, but, really...was it more ridiculous than turning back time by flying really fast? I guess we were supposed to believe that his recharging gave him the strength to repel the kryptonite's effects long enough to get it into orbit(and then enough strength to survive the fall back to Earth).
Something that we comic fans can infer, but not the casual movie goer. Singer made sure to let us know that kryptonite would kill Superman, but not that Superman is recharged by the yellow sun? I think the kryptonite angle is pretty well known by everyone with its place in pop-culture, but the sun thing isn't that well known part of the mythos. It's bad storytelling to let such an important piece of information slip away from the audience.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Lois explicitly stated to Richard White that "he gets his powers from the sun"...
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whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Where he's asking about Superman's height, weight, etc. He keeps picking at her about what she knows, and she suddenly dumps all the info on him. Meanwhile, Clark's in the background listening in. It leads to the joke about how Clark and Superman are the same height, and all that...
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Ah... the infamous "bitches behind me won't shut up" scene. I missed it because the bitches behind me wouldn't shut up.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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What? Theater talking?
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A coupla high school or young college chicks who seemed more interested by the last Ice Cream Social, or whatever the hell it is these kids these days are into.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Animalman said:
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thedoctor said:
The "Father and Son" theme is from the comics. No necessarily in that form, but it's there. As Peter David showed, Banner's father is a big reason for the creation of the Hulk id.
Yeah, the problem was(and I'd like to think this was something the studio was pushing for, not Lee) that they took it too literally. Banner's father was not supposed to be an actual antagonist, but a figurative one.
The father angle was taken from a draft written around '95 or '96 by a guy who was a fan of the books. His script was mostly Hulk vs. the Army (which would more than likely have worked) and was dropped. Several revisions later, it pops back in. This is all before Lee takes over. To what extent he changed it, if at all, I don't know.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Absolutely! Give me something new over same-old, same-old...
Like that "new" Jar Jar Binks over "same-old" wookiees in the Star Wars prequels or the "new" Willie over "same old" Marion Ravenwood in the Indy films?
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Heh. Oh come on, G. Your references have nothing to do with each other, and you know it. Jar-Jar has nothing to do with the Ewoks, and has even far less....in other words, nothing....to do with Superman having a son. And, they cast a different actress, for a different character, in a different Indy movie? The horrors!
You can do better than this...
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The point is that you are implying that "something new" in a film series is good simply by virtue of it not being "the same old." I'm pointing out two examples where that wasn't the case.
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