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Pariah said:
r3x, I realize that you think if you pad your posts enough, you'll just scare off any trace of argument, but you have to understand that your childish ad hominem isn't going to make your points.


padding?

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r3x said:
The dictators can't thrive if their people truly want change. Right now, America is just a big bad coming in and blowing up people. That encourages terrorism as every person we kill has a family member looking for guidance and understanding.



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I'm sorry if you feel that retaliation is a form of a "Big Bad America." I guess we can't all be pacifists waiting for our enemies to destroy us while we stand in front of the firing range preaching about peace and anti-war while the terrorists cock their AKs.


Pariah, in your blind hatred of me you failed to see the point I was making. The image we are giving to the Iraqis in particular, and the middle east in general, is that of the big bad. Had we focused on establishing basic utilities and order in the crucial period following the invasion, we would be seen in a positive light as coming in and making things better. But now the average Iraqi citizen only knows they have less power and water than under Saddam, and the constant threat of warfare in their streets.

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r3x said:
Obviously you never heard of any of the many many phrases from Jesus about peace and love. No, you go for vengeance over justice.



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"I come not as a facilitator of peace. But as a sword."

We've been over this before--Many times. In which case, it's better if you simply stick to hating Christianity rather than trying to use it to your advantage since it makes you look like such a fool.


Ive known a lot of asshole christians and a lot of decent christians. And the common point that seems to divide them is what part of their faith they focus on. The decent people are the ones who focus on the peaceful aspects of the religion, because then their life is about trying to find the good in their fellow man. The assholes are the ones who like the vengeance part.

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God said turn the other cheek. But He also said to lay down your life for your friends. If you're the only one being wronged, then don't bother with vengeance, but if someone else is in danger, you would logically step in. In which case, our government is stepping in to keep us from harm by attacking those who would plot against us. Your childish buffoonery about giving everyone a flower and calling it a day would kill us.


I've been consistent in my advocacy of diplomacy or, failing that, efficient work. As stated above, we should have maintained order and basic utilities in Iraq immediately after the invasion. And we should work on both countries' infrastructures. Terrorist recruitment breeds where people lose innocent family to foreign bombs and have to worry about their next meal.
In other words, we created the chaos in Iraq by allowing it to become chaotic.

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r3x said:
This is a fragile time. Anything of value to America's ideals must be preserved. That's how we win, not by poisoning our national soul with betrayed morality.



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You believe in a soul? HA!


Why would that be funny? You know, you come off as such an angry person. The concept of the soul predates christianity. Its more of a philosophical concept than a religious one.

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So, for the record, your definition of "winning" would be us not doing what it took to ensure the physical safety of Americans if the alternative meant to torture someone or blow up a crowd of enemy soldiers? Even if our entire country was wiped off the face of planet by a bomb that's location remained hidden because we chose to follow your arrogant and immature ideals of "morality" and not do what it took to stop it, you'd still consider a victory?


Every time we torture, we only hurt ourselves. Every middle eastern country we invade, we only hurt ourselves. People like bin Laden have been saying for years the US wants to come in and conquer the middle east and kill muslims. Now, we've given him Iraq and CIA blacksites for him to hold up as examples.
There are legal means, sensible means, and morals means to protect people.
In other words, you can be safe by shooting at every stranger who gets within 50 of your house, or you can buy a fucking deadbolt.

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You can keep your morality. I'm more practical. and please don't confuse America's traditional ideals with your own. Your implication that they're the same is utter BS.


I sincerly doubt your religious convictions. I recall a thread where you boasted religion as the foundation of morality in the world, now you tell me to "keep my morality?"
Being practical would be my way over yours. As stated, your way only increases terrorist recruitment levels and causes more death and pain in the world. My way would prevent people from joining such radical groups by eliminating their reason to join. My way is to help the people and improve the standard of living in the world, and the spirit of the international community. Because, like it or not, we are a global community. You don't like it, then get off the fucking internet and stay in your mom's basement.

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r3x said:
If it was a Catholic funeral with IRA members?



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What's your question? All you did was type a sentence fragment and then put a question mark at the end of it.


Unless you read what that question was in response to. And don't be such a grammar cunt. this is not my harvard dissertation, its fucking message board.

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If you're asking me if I would bomb an IRA funeral, then the answer would be yes--Granted that they were my enemies at the time.


you're a sick, sad boy, Max. I'm right this moment remembering how futile it is to even talk to you. You spew hate and I think that's sad.
In fact i imagine you to be someone who is only tough behind the online cloak. in real life i bet you're a timid little whiner who cowers to everyone he meets and then rights poems in bed about killing everyone.

but i'm sure they're grammatically accurate.
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r3x said:
I would only side with the group that believes in morality. I'd rather kill myself then become a monster to stop monsters. America has a fucked up history with lots of blood. The only good thing, the thing that truly strengthens our roots, is the founding father's ideals of a better world and of a free world with people being able to govern themselves. And thankfully this fucked up species that has poisoned and raped the world has enough decency in it to leave a glimmer of hope for a better tomorrow.
Those ideals, those principles, those ethics, those morals, that simple idea that right doesn't do wrong to beat wrong is the only thing that makes this world worth living.
So yeah if we have to miss an opportunity because we won't bomb a funeral. I have no problem.
And FYI, the Taliban only became "evil" in our eyes after they rejected an oil pipeline plan. And the Taliban kept Opium out of Afghanistan, which is now rapant. Until we can offer a solid solution, we have no right to talk.
Get out of mommy's basement, Maxwell. Don't just read some sociological book on the history of war. Try meeting people, seeing people, living in the world, and understanding people.



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..............What the motherfuck.........


odd that you said motherfuck and not fuck. some issue you'd like to discuss? of course, that's more of a deep thought topic and i'd ask you to discuss it there.

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Not only do you just pad your post with more gibberish about ideals, whilst not actually bothering to explain the mechanics of the morality of which you reference, but then you also make light of a terrorist organization--The one that sheltered Osama Bin Laden for fuck's sake!


First of all, I won't defend my morals or beliefs to someone who is devoid of either. Not anymore at least.
As for the Taliban. Well, we were pretty chummy with them up until the oil pipeline deal fell through. That's not making light, that's pointing out a truth.

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r3x said:
Muslim is not the same as terrorist. As much as David Koresh is not the same as all christians.



On the contrary, you tell us to embrace those particular terrorists because they're Muslims. Lets not forget about all of your self-indulgent rants about how Muslims are much more provocative and fascinating than other religions.


Embrace? Provacotive?
Wow, you'll have to link me. Because all I've ever felt is that you can't blame the religion for the murderous actions of a minority.
I never said to embrace the terrorists, but to mend bad relations with the muslim world. that stops future terrorists.
But you only see blood and vengeance and not the fact that there are innocents in the middle east being killed in the crossfire. Right now i believe its about ten times the ammount of dead civilians as 9/11. they deserve empathy, they have committed no crime. in the "war on terror" we should concern ourselves with all the innocent civilian victims, not just the americans.
to paraphrase kennedy "we all live together, or we all die together."

of course, i still have the feeling this is a waste of fucking time.

Bow ties are coool.