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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
It's been argued before that liberals like to hide behind the "untouchable". Have someone who's an identified "victim" make your political claims for you then if anyone criticises them hang them for being insensitive or an asshole. Look at Pro's response here. Fox can't be condemed because he's trying to help a needy cause? I guess if you call getting Democrats elected a needy cause, but i call it politics.
Come on, Wbam. Read the entire thread. You'll see I never said it wasn't a political ad. I'm just saying that (A) Rush tried to attack Fox, personally, instead of his message or point, (B) at least Fox is siding with a good cause, instead of Big Business, Oil, or just lining his own pockets (not saying that all Republicans do so, just saying that there are politicians on both sides of the aisle that use politics as a personal monetary gain), and finally, (C) it's just a well known, proven fact that Rush Limbaugh is an asshole.
That's all...
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Quote:
PJP said:
Believe it or not....I agree with G-man, Rush and Michael J. Fox all at the same time.
Unfortunately, I believe it, Peter... 
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Prometheus said:
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Captain Sammitch said:
He's from Hollywood. He's not used to people around him having opinions that differ from his own.
Phil Smith, the RKMBs #1 Sideline Cheerleader... 
Fuck off. We've been over this before. What exactly constitutes being 'in' a debate or on the 'sidelines'? I don't have to post a secondhand opinion from professional opinion-posters to make a statement. I never see you bitching about my one-liners when my opinion lands on the other side (as it has on a number of occasions). Don't you have anything better on me than this tired bullshit? I start threads all the damn time. I post detailed explanations of my opinions quite often, and nobody says a damn thing. If I'm so irrelevant as to be considered 'on the sidelines' in every political thread, then why do you get your panties all up in a bunch every time I toss off a semi-humorous observation? Are you the only one entitled to wisecracks in this forum? Is there a list of authorized wisecrackers? I didn't get the memo. Why don't you concentrate on the thread instead of stalking me.
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Prometheus said:
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Captain Sammitch said:
Much like Jon Stewart, he'd be one of my favorite comedians if he weren't so hopelessly mired in his own political leanings.
You prefer Bill O'Reilley to get your laughs?
Actually, no. I'm actually capable of recognizing perspectives that aren't all the way to one side or the other - there are plenty of people here who could probably give that a try any time now. I didn't say "I despise Jon Stewart because he's a liberal scumbag". I watch The Daily Show. I laugh at it. All I said was that Jon Stewart isn't my favorite comedian, because he seems unable to step outside the political arena, unlike many other A-list comedians, most of whom have decidedly liberal political leanings but don't live and die by them.
You seem to think I'm some raving reactionary neocon simply because I am cynical about liberal politics and don't keep quiet about it. You forget I've said a number of things like "a conscience is a sorry substitute for a party line," or "if you can't argue both sides of an issue, you don't know enough about it yet." I'm sorry I can't agree with you all the time. No, wait. I'm not. I don't dislike you at all, or really anyone else in here, but I don't have to keep my mouth shut if I have an opinion that differs from that of the person who posted before me. Compared to adler and many of the other vocal liberals on this board, I suppose I might come off as a staunch conservative. But to be honest, I'm closer to the middle of the road than most other people who post with any frequency in here - with a few noteworthy exceptions like Pig Iron or Doc.
To answer your question, I don't listen to/watch/read O'Reilly at all. I don't even know what channel Fox News is in my area. I know how I feel about most issues that people deem relevant right now, and I go with whoever shares my opinion on that issue. I know that's an astounding concept for many people in this country, but if more people were to try that once in a while, you'd be surprised at how many people like me there are out there. People who, despite differences of opinion, are generally able to be reasonable and civil - except, unfortunately, when someone is inexplicably stalking them.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Fuck off. We've been over this before. What exactly constitutes being 'in' a debate or on the 'sidelines'? I don't have to post a secondhand opinion from professional opinion-posters to make a statement. I never see you bitching about my one-liners when my opinion lands on the other side (as it has on a number of occasions). Don't you have anything better on me than this tired bullshit? I start threads all the damn time. I post detailed explanations of my opinions quite often, and nobody says a damn thing. If I'm so irrelevant as to be considered 'on the sidelines' in every political thread, then why do you get your panties all up in a bunch every time I toss off a semi-humorous observation? Are you the only one entitled to wisecracks in this forum? Is there a list of authorized wisecrackers? I didn't get the memo. Why don't you concentrate on the thread instead of stalking me.
 Holy shit, Princess...calm down!!
Geez, fair enough, fair enough. You called me square, and I accept it. Fuck, just unclench!
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Captain Sammitch said:
Actually, no. I'm actually capable of recognizing perspectives that aren't all the way to one side or the other - there are plenty of people here who could probably give that a try any time now. I didn't say "I despise Jon Stewart because he's a liberal scumbag". I watch The Daily Show. I laugh at it. All I said was that Jon Stewart isn't my favorite comedian, because he seems unable to step outside the political arena, unlike many other A-list comedians, most of whom have decidedly liberal political leanings but don't live and die by them.
Well, my joke in reply was that I was comparing O'Reilley as a comedian, and not a serious journalist. But, okay...in rebuttal:
Jon Stewart is the lead comedian in a very liberal comedy show called "The Daily Show". That's his forte'. That's his deal. And, that's what he's good at. If you can't appreciate his humor because it's political, then, that's one thing. But, it's not like he does anything else at all. That's why he is who he is. Much like Bill Mahr or Dennis Miller. He's a political comedian. So, you can't argue that you would like him more if he would "seperate" himself from his politics. He wouldn't be the comedian we know without his politics. That's all.
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You seem to think I'm some raving reactionary neocon simply because I am cynical about liberal politics and don't keep quiet about it. You forget I've said a number of things like "a conscience is a sorry substitute for a party line," or "if you can't argue both sides of an issue, you don't know enough about it yet." I'm sorry I can't agree with you all the time. No, wait. I'm not. I don't dislike you at all, or really anyone else in here, but I don't have to keep my mouth shut if I have an opinion that differs from that of the person who posted before me. Compared to adler and many of the other vocal liberals on this board, I suppose I might come off as a staunch conservative. But to be honest, I'm closer to the middle of the road than most other people who post with any frequency in here - with a few noteworthy exceptions like Pig Iron or Doc.
....oh, what? You weren't finished?
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To answer your question, I don't listen to/watch/read O'Reilly at all. I don't even know what channel Fox News is in my area. I know how I feel about most issues that people deem relevant right now, and I go with whoever shares my opinion on that issue. I know that's an astounding concept for many people in this country, but if more people were to try that once in a while, you'd be surprised at how many people like me there are out there. People who, despite differences of opinion, are generally able to be reasonable and civil - except, unfortunately, when someone is inexplicably stalking them.
Phil, get a grip. You interjected into a thread I started, and into a discussion I was having/debating with G-Man. If anyone is "stalking", it's you. Also, if you ever feel the need to take the time to explain your positions, and why you feel the way you do, rather than just dropping in with a pithy 'shout-out' to whoever you feel like sucking up to at the moment, I'd be more than happy to notice you in the crowd...
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
...Also, if you ever feel the need to take the time to explain your positions, and why you feel the way you do, rather than just dropping in with a pithy 'shout-out' to whoever you feel like sucking up to at the moment, I'd be more than happy to notice you in the crowd...
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pretty much ignoring what Captain Sammitch said earlier:
...I start threads all the damn time. I post detailed explanations of my opinions quite often, and nobody says a damn thing...
Do I really need to provide you with a list of productive contributions I've made to threads in this forum? Outside this forum there's no question, but I suppose it might be a little tougher to accept in here. If you took the time to read my statements and not just my replies, though, it might be a little easier to see.
And, once again, I never claimed not to 'appreciate' Stewart's humor. I said, again, it wasn't my favorite. If not thinking Jon Stewart is The Second Coming™ makes me unappreciative, I guess I'm guilty as charged.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Come on, Wbam. Read the entire thread. You'll see I never said it wasn't a political ad.
I was addressing the premise of the thread and the term "a needy cause"
Quote:
(A) Rush tried to attack Fox, personally, instead of his message or point
Acctually he did both. I want to ask you a question and I want to hear (read) you answer ir honestly. Have you heard the Rush Limbaugh segment in it's etirety (considering it was about 20+ minutes) on teh Rush Limbaugh show or have you only seen exerpts from other media?
I'm willing to concede that Rush attacked Fox personally, but I would like you to concede that you don;t know weather or not Rush addressed the issues as well.
However I think it was acceptable to adress Fox personally because he was using himself and his condition to enhance his position. Rush didn;t make him a part of the debate, Fox did.
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(B) at least Fox is siding with a good cause, instead of Big Business, Oil, or just lining his own pockets (not saying that all Republicans do so, just saying that there are politicians on both sides of the aisle that use politics as a personal monetary gain), and finally,
That's just your political opinion, wich I respect but dissagree with. I don;t think it's a good cause, so there we simply have a difference of opinion. Also the Bill in question is acctually a cloning Bill, not a Stem Cel bill. It's missleading.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
r3xyz... something. Can't be arsed to look it up. Much like Jon Stewart, he'd be one of my favorite comedians if he weren't so hopelessly mired in his own political leanings.
i haven't even said anything in this thread..... 
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Quote:
PJP said:
Believe it or not....I agree with G-man, Rush and Michael J. Fox all at the same time.
Unfortunately, I believe it, Peter...
well I believe that Michael J. Fox is a good person and I happen to be a big fan of his. I also, like him believe in stem cell research. However, I also believe that like Rush said, he was playing for the camera. I believe the tremors were real and his condition is nothing to laugh at....but if he can shoot scenes of Boston Legal without the tremors why not shoot these commercials without the tremors too. And I agree with G-Man's points that each side believes they are right and you could call every political add an attack ad.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:at least Fox is siding with a good cause, instead of Big Business
When did medical research stop being "big business"?
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Quote:
PJP said:
Quote:
Prometheus said:
Quote:
PJP said:
Believe it or not....I agree with G-man, Rush and Michael J. Fox all at the same time.
Unfortunately, I believe it, Peter...
well I believe that Michael J. Fox is a good person and I happen to be a big fan of his. I also, like him believe in stem cell research. However, I also believe that like Rush said, he was playing for the camera. I believe the tremors were real and his condition is nothing to laugh at....but if he can shoot scenes of Boston Legal without the tremors why not shoot these commercials without the tremors too. And I agree with G-Man's points that each side believes they are right and you could call every political add an attack ad.
as i understand it Fox can take medication to make his shakes more manageable because his parkinson is one of the lower forms. But he doesn't take the meds when he does appearances like this so that he can put a famous face on how the more severe forms of parkinson are.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Have you heard the Rush Limbaugh segment in it's etirety (considering it was about 20+ minutes) on teh Rush Limbaugh show or have you only seen exerpts from other media?
I freely admit that I have not seen all of Rush's show, at any point.
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I'm willing to concede that Rush attacked Fox personally, but I would like you to concede that you don;t know weather or not Rush addressed the issues as well.
Okay, I concede that. You are right. I don't know whether he addressed the issues at all, much less in a fair light.
Quote:
However I think it was acceptable to adress Fox personally because he was using himself and his condition to enhance his position. Rush didn;t make him a part of the debate, Fox did.
I disagree. But, I think we've all come to the point of the debate where it comes down to a matter of opinion...
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I think the debate here was always been a matter of opinion.
The real issue, as Pat Moynihan would say, is that while we are entitled to our own opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts.
That applies to everyone, including Fox.
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You are such the last word freak, aren't you?
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Yes. 
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Also if I understand correctly, the window where medication helps gets smaller as the disease progresses. Fox use to be able to continue doing a sitcom up to a point, now it's guest appearences where even with shooting around his Parkinsons you can see the disease's progressive nature.
Fair play!
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I would think, however, that if he can hold it together long enough (or they can schedule around his shakes) to do a regular guest spot on an hour long dramady he can hold it together long enough (or they can shoot around the shakes) to film a thirty second commerical
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Well, nothing's going to convince you beyond your own opinion, so, what's the use of continuing the debate?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I would think, however, that if he can hold it together long enough (or they can schedule around his shakes) to do a regular guest spot on an hour long dramady he can hold it together long enough (or they can shoot around the shakes) to film a thirty second commerical
I would think they would be more interested in showing the effects of the disease. If most of his day is mostly like what you saw in the ad then it makes sense not to do 30 seconds where it doesn't seem so bad.
Fair play!
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watch the whole thing, especially fox's ad for specter in 2004. he's a good man, putting himself out there to help people with his condition. so what if there's a selfish aspect to looking for a cure, its still a good thing to do that will help people.
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Lol, those guys are funny.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
r3xyz... something. Can't be arsed to look it up. Much like Jon Stewart, he'd be one of my favorite comedians if he weren't so hopelessly mired in his own political leanings.
i haven't even said anything in this thread.....
No need. You are, in fact, ubiquitous. Infamy has its rewards.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
I disagree. But, I think we've all come to the point of the debate where it comes down to a matter of opinion...
I thought that was the whole thing! 
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http://us.imdb.com/news/sb/2006-10-27/
Actor Fox's Ads Hurting GOP, Says Study
Michael J. Fox's political commercials supporting embryonic stem cell research may be harming Republicans according to a study conducted earlier this week and reported today (Friday) by CNSNews.com, a unit of the conservative Media Research Center. According to the study by HCD Research and Muhlenberg College Institute of Public Opinion, support for such research increased from 78 percent overall to 83 percent after those surveyed viewed the ad by Fox, whose Parkinson's symptoms are apparent in it. The survey also concluded that Republican respondents' support for a Republican candidate decreased by 10 percent after seeing the ad while Independents' support for Democrats grew by 10 percent. Meanwhile, in an appearance on the CBS Evening News Thursday, Fox denied that charges by conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh that he had stopped taking his medications in order to exaggerate his Parkinson's symptoms. The medication, he pointed out, counteracts the rigidity of Parkinson's and allows him to speak. "The irony of it is that I was too medicated," he told anchor Katie Couric. "Would you support a Republican candidate?" Couric asked later. "I've campaigned for Arlen Specter, the Republican Senator from Pennsylvania who supports stem-cell research." (Fox also portrayed a conservative preppie on the long-running Family Ties TV series.)
No mention of whether the reaction to Fox's ad (like Rush's comments) had anything to do with this.
Last edited by dogbert; 2006-10-29 12:31 AM.
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Not only did Fox unfairly attack Republicans with the ad, but in one state, Fox actually used the ad to endorse a democrat who has voted against stem cell research. This would seem to be the "smoking gun" for Fox's motives. If this was only about stem cell research, there was no reason for Fox to endorse this democrat. In fact, if both candidates were against stem cell reseach, Fox could have withheld his endorsement. Instead, however, he cut an ad that inaccurately portrayed a democrat as a supporter of stem cell research. There's little doubt left: for Fox its about politics and nothing else
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Fox has endorsed at least one Republican (Specter) so trying to make it look like it's just politics for Fox just isn't true. Limbaugh is still an asshole pooping out the same GOP approved truthiness.
Fair play!
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The fact that Fox endorsed one republican, Spector, in the past does not mean he's not now shilling exclusively for the DNC.
If, as we were led to believe, the issue was stem cell research, how do you explain Fox supporting a democrat who voted against the research?
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Yeah, and I noticed you're getting your "facts" linked from Rush Limbaugh's website. This is the same website that promotes "Club Gitmo" apparel. So, I'm sure it's accurate and unbiased...
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Considering Fox's disease, it's more reasonable to suspect he's more interested in seeking a cure than partisan politics.
Fair play!
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Hey, cures don't come cheap, you know. If the man feels he has to sell out to a party that might possibly get him a cure lined up, I suppose that's enough for him to justify pimping the Dems' entire platform on the basis of one comparatively minor issue.
And before anyone starts in with any kind of sensitivity horseshit, yes, I have/have had relatives suffering from Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's, and other diseases that could supposedly be cured more rapidly through embryonic stem cell research than through other forms of stem-cell research - in the time period that this debate has been going on. But none of them have supported embryonic stem-cell research.
If you really want to tie this to the abortion debate - and most of you should already know my argument concerning that - then no, I don't believe it's right to use human beings (even "potential" human beings, if you want to use that little PC tag) as raw materials from which to harvest things we find useful, no matter what the windfall might be.
Arguing the issue itself is a whole other thread, though. If you want me to say something relevant to this, Gregory Peck was elected chairman of the American Cancer Society and didn't have cancer. Self-preservation is probably the most primitive instinct of any living thing, and anyone can stand up and advocate something they have a direct stake in. But not every victim of Parkinson's is willing to send our society off down that slippery slope where other human beings are ultimately just another resource to exploit. (The opinion of one person I actually know is worth the opinions of thousands of strangers, as far as I'm concerned.) It's not like there's a guaranteed payoff - that opening the floodgates for no-holds-barred research on embryonic tissue is gonna produce a definite payoff. And if there are people who are willing to wait for another way to find a cure, that's good enough for me. If Fox is serious enough about stem-cell research that he's going all-out to promote a political party on the strength of one issue, he shouldn't be surprised by the reaction he gets.
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A Special Message from Emmy Award-Winning actor, Michael J. FoxFellow Americans,
Many of you have expressed reservations concerning embryonic stem cell research, fearful that it will lead us down a slippery slope towards a society where human embryos are worth only what you can get for them on the open market. You strongly believe that human life, even in its earliest stages, is sacrosanct.
Well, that and three bucks might get you some brownie points with the Big Cheese in the afterlife, but if you ever want to see another Back to the Future sequel you’ll vote Claire McCaskill for United States Senate.
Claire’s strong support for embryonic stem cell research is the best hope that beautiful celebrities afflicted with embarassing diseases have of finding a cure - and the only chance you people have of ever seeing Marty McFly and Doc Brown back in action again.
Seriously, I’d love to do another movie. In fact, I’ve got the script for Back to the Future Part IV right here. It’s damn good, too. But I’m going to feed it into the shredder page by page unless you people start forking over some goddam stem cells! I don’t want any of those second-rate stem cells from some dead geezer’s spine, either! They better be embryonic stem cells, from human embryos, or the deal’s off.
Come on. Wouldn’t you like to see your ol’ pal Calvin Klein riding a modified stegosaurus through prehistoric Hill Valley? It’s right here on page 17. But it’s not going to happen as long as I’m shaking like an Indonesian heroin addict. LOOK AT ME, FOR CHRISTSAKE!!!! I'M A F***ING WRECK!! How am I going to bury Caveman Biff under a mountain of dinosaur poop when I can’t even hold a pencil without poking my f***ing eye out?
So I’m going to say it one last time: VOTE CLAIRE McCASKGILL, OR MARTY MCFLY DIES! I'll kill him, I really will. Alex P. Keaton, too. I'll take my medication, and stab him right in the neck with a screwdriver. There will be no Family Ties Reunion Special, no more Back to the Future flicks, and your own damn selfishness will be to blame. Just keep that in mind when you go to the polls in November.
Thank you, and God bless
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
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OP
Regenerated 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16
1 post
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
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We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Prometheus said:
You have no class...
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
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1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
A Special Message from Emmy Award-Winning actor, Michael J. Fox
Fellow Americans,
Many of you have expressed reservations concerning embryonic stem cell research, fearful that it will lead us down a slippery slope towards a society where human embryos are worth only what you can get for them on the open market. You strongly believe that human life, even in its earliest stages, is sacrosanct.
Well, that and three bucks might get you some brownie points with the Big Cheese in the afterlife, but if you ever want to see another Back to the Future sequel you’ll vote Claire McCaskill for United States Senate.
Claire’s strong support for embryonic stem cell research is the best hope that beautiful celebrities afflicted with embarassing diseases have of finding a cure - and the only chance you people have of ever seeing Marty McFly and Doc Brown back in action again.
Seriously, I’d love to do another movie. In fact, I’ve got the script for Back to the Future Part IV right here. It’s damn good, too. But I’m going to feed it into the shredder page by page unless you people start forking over some goddam stem cells! I don’t want any of those second-rate stem cells from some dead geezer’s spine, either! They better be embryonic stem cells, from human embryos, or the deal’s off.
Come on. Wouldn’t you like to see your ol’ pal Calvin Klein riding a modified stegosaurus through prehistoric Hill Valley? It’s right here on page 17. But it’s not going to happen as long as I’m shaking like an Indonesian heroin addict. LOOK AT ME, FOR CHRISTSAKE!!!! I'M A F***ING WRECK!! How am I going to bury Caveman Biff under a mountain of dinosaur poop when I can’t even hold a pencil without poking my f***ing eye out?
So I’m going to say it one last time: VOTE CLAIRE McCASKGILL, OR MARTY MCFLY DIES! I'll kill him, I really will. Alex P. Keaton, too. I'll take my medication, and stab him right in the neck with a screwdriver. There will be no Family Ties Reunion Special, no more Back to the Future flicks, and your own damn selfishness will be to blame. Just keep that in mind when you go to the polls in November.
Thank you, and God bless
yeah that Fox is a real grifter.
can we find the post where you blasted him for doing almost the same commercial for a pro-stem cell Republican in 2004?
Bow ties are coool.
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