Originally Posted By: Ray

America is not some holy country where god blessed everyone and had jesus hand deliver the bill of rights. America is a country built by very very smart men. Smart men who adapted ideas of democracy from other countries in history and adapted the bill of rights from England and put it all together to create a powerful foundation.


 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

And you also toss in a little anti-Christian charicature and bigotry that doesn't reflect reality either. If our founding fathers were inspired by the Bible and Christian principles, that doesn't mean that we think every action our nation takes is blessed by God. It's far more a case of conducting our nation in a way that's worthy of being blessed by God, of earning that blessing, not that whatever we do is sanctioned by God.

Wow, what a display of intellect and honesty!

Manifest Destiny.
Adding "One Nation Under God."
George W. Bush and his statements about Democracy being a gift from god.


None of these examples prove your allegation that our nation is made up of men who beleive we are "some holy country where god blessed everyone and had jesus hand deliver the bill of rights".

We are a nation based on Christian principles, not, as you allege, setting ourselves up as some holy instrument of righteousness to exact God's vengeance.
The founding fathers were unquestionably Christian, and clearly intended the country to be based on Biblical principles, reverent of God, and accountable to God. And where the Bible and biblical principles were to be taught in our schools. But they clearly did not intend for us to be another theocracy, like they fled from in Europe, in search of religious freedom.

  • "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"


"Manifest destiny" is the belief, beginning in the 1840's proclaimed by journalist John L. O'Sullivan, that once the U.S. extended its borders West past the Mississippi River that it was the destiny of the United States to extend its territory all the way West to the Pacific. That we were the largest industrial power on the continent, and despite the claim on the land by Russia, Britain, Spain, Mexico, and the United States, it was the United States that fully had the resources to develop this largely unexplored and unpopulated territory.

You somehow spin the notion of "manifest destiny" into yet another attack on Christians, that they are responsible for this belief. But please show me the Biblical verse where it instructs Christians to take the Western United States.


Adding "one nation under God" to the pledge is equally irrelevant to your point, and much less significant. "Under God" had been unofficially said since the Pledge of Allegiance's creation (by a protestant minister) before it was finally officially added. And it was largely added just to contrast us with state-enforced atheism in communist nations, cerainly not as a Christian rallying banner to conquer the world.



And Bush's references to God in political speeches are indistinguishable from similar references by other Presidents over many decades, if not centuries. You make it sound like Bush was acting militarily as part of some Christian holy war. But clearly, despite Bush's christian beliefs, these military actions are unmistakeably for secular geopolitical reasons, in an effort to contain decades of escalating violence and instability caused by Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida. So wrong again, despite your attempts to use it to demonize Christians.