Originally Posted By: whomod
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


"The source of the card is unknown..."

So it could have come from a Democrat.
It would be consistent with Hillary Clinton's political tactics, and her many unclaimed attacks on Obama, that even the liberal media says came from her campaign.


When buildings are bombed by terrorists, there is a reason people immediately assume it's done by radical islamists. Same with Lee Atwater/Karl Rove style smear jobs. It's an established M.O. with the far right. G-man also makes good points which you probably won't immediately dismiss as coming from Moscow or something similarly archaic and and dated.


If you weren't so liberal-partisan, acting like Republicans are the only ones who launch negative campaigns, when Democrats consistently launch arguably even more questionable attacks, then maybe I could agree with you.

Yeah, the attack on Romney could have come from another Republican, and at this stage of the campaign, the competing Republicans would have more to gain.

But that doesn't eliminate the possibility that Hillary or Obama or others in the DNC might have done it, to leverage who they want to run against. Hillary has made more than her share of attacks that would be worthy of Lee Atwater's efforts. James Carville. Rahm Emmanuel. None of these guys have any moral high ground over Atwater.
And although Atwaters ads were negative campaigning, I didn't see that any of the points he raised were untrue. Michael Dukakis did let convicted murderer Willie Horton out on furlough to kill again. That was a clear error in judgement by Dukakis, that called into question his character and judgement. And yes, his dangerous liberalism. All Atwater did was point it out. It's not like Atwater, oh, say, forged a letter from his commanding officer or something. He just pointed out the facts, and the ideological schism between liberals and conservatives regarding prison sentences and parole consideration.

 Originally Posted By: whomod

 Originally Posted By: WB
When you mention swiftboat ads, you might also mention the Swiftboating by Dan Rather and the rest of liberal media, if not complicit Democrats, when they attacked Bush with a forged letter allegedly from Bush's National Guard commanding officer, just 2 weeks before the 2004 election.


While CBS and Rather did a piss poor job of evaluating the authenticity of the document, Marion Knox, the 86 year old former secretary was found who also said the document was fake. She did however say she remembered doing a similar document with roughly the same information in it. She also said Bush was unfit to serve as President and was selected, not elected.

So much for "swift boating". When the secretary who typed up the documents says the documents were fake but the INFO was spot-on. Sounds like a classic Rove deflection/distraction tactic to me. (see Rove bugging his own HQ and accusing the Democrats).


Hearsay on something 30 years later on a letter she thinks looks kind of familiar? Give me a break.
THE LETTER WAS FORGED !!
Period. The end.


 Originally Posted By: Whomod

 Quote:
Or Al Gore's, Jesse Jackson's, Al Sharpton's and other Democrats' cultivating fear and splitting the nation along ethnic lines with allegations of racism in the 2000 election, along with other conspiracy theories, to scapegoat their losses in 2000 and 2004 onto Ralph Nader, George W. Bush, and others.


Willie Horton


As I said, an ad campaign that accurately showcased Dukakis' liberalism, and resultant poor judgement.


Reagan's exact statistics were a little off, but they cited several welfare abusers who abused the welfare system in pretty much exactly the way Reagan described in his campaign speech.



Basically, the Southern Strategy is the Republicans shifting strategy to address concerns of the Southern white majority. While it's painted here to be about "race" in the wiki-piece, it's in truth about strong military defense, being tough on crime (as compared to liberals like Dukakis), religious free speech, gay rights, and intrusive liberal social policies that usurp how they want their states run.
Liberals smear this strategy as being about racism, as liberals typically do anything that costs them votes.

No state under the "southern strategy" era has gone back to segregation or Jim Crow laws. Republicans have simply successfully appealed to white southern voters on a number of issues that are important to them. Which liberals have slandered by falsely playing the race card.

And it's not necessarily a real or working Republican strategy, as Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton both carried a majority of Southern states.

In any case, it is not an example of "Swiftboating".

 Quote:

Lee Atwater

Although if you read the Lee Atwater entry, he did come to an epiphany after discovering he had cancer and publicly apologized for the deplorable tactics he used to discredit and destroy people for the Republican Party. Karl Rove and his ilk have yet to have a similar pang of conscience.


"Conscience", to you, is apparently his saying something that is of benefit to Democrats.

I don't see you calling for repentance among the dirty-tricksters of the DNC, who I've listed above, across several campaigns, and the list is far from complete.

 Originally Posted By: whomod

 Originally Posted By: WB
Or exposure of the Mark Foley scandal on October 2006, barely 2 weeks before the election (an interesting pattern for the liberal media, in 2004 and 2006). A story Democrats and the liberal media had known about for roughly a year, but chose that precise moment to unleash on the Republicans.
Funny how swiftboating the Republicans in far more questionable circumstances doesn't even raise the slightest blip on your sense-of-fairness meter.


Uh huh.

It was a Republican aide who came forward first. And the Republicans knew about it for much longer. hence the resignation of Dennis Hastert. You forgot to add that part when you were pointing fingers at the evil liberals.


I don't see that it's proven Republicans knew longer. It was Democrats who exagerrated the significance of it to smear the entire Republican party. There's a difference between accusing the person who is truly at fault, and on innuendo smearing the entire Republican party. Especially when the Democrats looked the other way regarding other Democrats congressmen, including Gerry Studds, who was gay-fucking his teenage intern, was not censured, and was re-elected. Both parties have had sex scandals regarding interns. The republicans resigned. The Democrats defended their man and/or looked the other way, and then had the audacity to accuse Republicans of doing the same.


 Originally Posted By: whomod

 Originally Posted By: WB
On the subject of the Swiftboat ads, I think it was fair game, since Kerry opened the door by attacking Bush's National Guard record, and Kerry would often condemn the Swiftboat attacks on his record, and then attack Bush's military record in the same breath. If it's fair for Kerry, then it's fair for Bush to respond.


Of course you think it's fair game. Was it also far game the way they attacked Max Cleland? "Support the troops" all right. Jut so long as they ain't liberal. if so then they're "fair game".


Becaause it is fair game. Several hundred vets ascribed to what the Swiftvets said about Kerry, including doctors who treated his injuries. A handful supported Kerry. Despite that an overwhelming majority of these vets condemned Kerry, guess who Democrats and the liberal media sided with? That's right, the handful.
And they demonized the guys who were spokespersons in the Swiftboat ads. The political machine cuts both ways. But you try to make it sound like Democrats don't do exactly the things, and worse, that you demonize the Republicans for.


 Originally Posted By: whomod

 Originally Posted By: WB
The Democrats engage in these attacks.

And the Democrats do it to themselves. Just ask Howard Dean.



Howard Dean? The chairman of the DNC? Why?


What I was specifically referring to is the 1992 primaries, where Dean was the front runner, and he was bitterly torn down by his fellow Democrat rivals.

You act like something such as Bush attacking McCain has never happened in politics before. You mockingly and gloatingly call it "eating their own", while selectively omitting when Democrats do the exact same thing, to their own, or to the Republicans.
Reagan's son wouldn't shake Carter's hand after the 1980 election, for the things Carter said about Reagan during the campaign.

In addition, Dean more than any Democrat I can recall, has made a lot of vitriolic remarks, expressing his unbridled hatred for all Republicans, especially while he was DNC chairman.