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nah she'll do anything to be President.....once your in....you do whatever you want.
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HILL BACKS 'BAN' ON FLAG-BURNINGSen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has quietly signed on to a Republican measure that makes it illegal to desecrate the American flag — a move that will boost her credibility in the conservative "red" states.
Clinton is the sole co-sponsor of Utah Republican Sen. Bob Bennett's new legislation that outlaws flag-trashing without addressing the issue of a Constitutional amendment to ban it.
It's a delicate dance on a longtime hot-button issue that has major implications in a potential 2008 White House bid for Clinton as she tries to woo heartland voters and block new centrist-Dem darling Gov. Mark Warner of Virginia.
Warner last month fired a warning shot at Hillary's presidential hopes when he helped elect a fellow Democrat to succeed him in Virginia — proving he has the juice to boost other Democrats in red states.
"She has been tagged, just about everywhere, as a likely loser because she can't carry a single red state.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
"She has been tagged, just about everywhere, as a likely loser because she can't carry a single red state.[/LIST]
Depends, I think, on who she's running against.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
HILL BACKS 'BAN' ON FLAG-BURNING
[LIST]Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has quietly signed on to a Republican measure that makes it illegal to desecrate the American flag — a move that will boost her credibility in the conservative "red" states.
It's a delicate dance on a longtime hot-button issue that has major implications in a potential 2008 White House bid for Clinton as she tries to woo heartland voters and block new centrist-Dem darling Gov. Mark Warner of Virginia.
Wow! She supported a bill that will be immeadiatly overturned by the courts on 1st Amendment grounds. I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
Mark Warner of Virginia? Wasn't he married to Elizabeth Taylor? Is Liz going to campaign for him???
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Quote:
the G-man said:
HILL BACKS 'BAN' ON FLAG-BURNING
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has quietly signed on to a Republican measure that makes it illegal to desecrate the American flag — a move that will boost her credibility in the conservative "red" states.
Clinton is the sole co-sponsor of Utah Republican Sen. Bob Bennett's new legislation that outlaws flag-trashing without addressing the issue of a Constitutional amendment to ban it.
It's a delicate dance on a longtime hot-button issue that has major implications in a potential 2008 White House bid for Clinton as she tries to woo heartland voters and block new centrist-Dem darling Gov. Mark Warner of Virginia.
Warner last month fired a warning shot at Hillary's presidential hopes when he helped elect a fellow Democrat to succeed him in Virginia — proving he has the juice to boost other Democrats in red states.
"She has been tagged, just about everywhere, as a likely loser because she can't carry a single red state.
Technically Clinton won all the Red states in the 1996 election.
Bow ties are coool.
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Not true.
Clinton did not win "all the Red States" in 1996.
For example, "red states" Texas, Alabama and Oklahoma all voted for Dole in 1996.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Not true.
Clinton did not win "all the Red States" in 1996.
For example, "red states" Texas, Alabama and Oklahoma all voted for Dole in 1996.
A HA!!!
In 1996 the coloring was reversed, Red was Democrat, Blue was Republican.
Did did win all the "red states in 1996"
Bow ties are coool.
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Yes, but I was referring to the red states from 2004.
So you're still wrong.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, but I was referring to the red states from 2004.
So you're still wrong.
Not if you were responding to my original statement. then you'd have to specifically say the Red States by the 2004 standards.
How does a mod go so wrong? 
Bow ties are coool.
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Let me settle this once and for all:
Hence forth, the 2004 Demo states shall be called Patrician
The Repub states shall be called Barbarian
Everyone happy now?
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, but I was referring to the red states from 2004.
So you're still wrong.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Not if you were responding to my original statement. then you'd have to specifically say the Red States by the 2004 standards.
How does a mod go so wrong?
However, you are forgetting:
Your original reference to red states was in response to a post I made.
In my post, the "red" states were the red states from 2004.
So, if any one needed to be more specific, it was you, since you were responding to me.
Therefore, you're still wrong.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, but I was referring to the red states from 2004.
So you're still wrong.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Not if you were responding to my original statement. then you'd have to specifically say the Red States by the 2004 standards.
How does a mod go so wrong?
However, you are forgetting:
Your original reference to red states was in response to a post I made.
In my post, the "red" states were the red states from 2004.
So, if any one needed to be more specific, it was you, since you were responding to me.
Therefore, you're still wrong.
G-man, you should've stopped a few posts back.
But like so many of your court cases, there was a tree blocking that stop sign and you just made a fool of yourself.
Check mate.
Bow ties are coool.
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HILL RIPS 'PLANTATION' POLSSen. Hillary Rodham Clinton used Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday yesterday to blast the Republican-led House of Representatives, charging that it's "run like a plantation."
Speaking at a Baptist church in Harlem, Clinton used the explicit racial analogy to describe Republicans who she said refuse to allow "contrary points of view" to be heard.
"When you look at the way the House of Representatives has been run — it has been run like a plantation, and you know what I'm talking about," Clinton said.
Her comments were met with polite applause from the mostly black parishioners at Canaan Baptist Church — where King once preached.
Clinton, who is running for re-election and enjoys overwhelming support among the black community, was responding to a question from a KISS FM radio show host who asked her to explain what makes Democrats different than Republicans.
Republicans in Congress were quick to dismiss Clinton's remarks as racially insensitive.
"It's always wrong to use the race card for politics by using a loaded word like plantation," said Rep. Peter King (R-L.I.), who also chairs the House's Homeland Security Committee.
"But it's especially wrong on Martin Luther King Day."
GOP Senate candidate John Spencer called Clinton's remarks "divisive" and said, "That's outrageously dishonest about our government, and typical Hillary Clinton pandering by the use of a word like that ['plantation'] on Martin Luther King Day and then insidiously saying, 'You know what I mean.' " If Hillary wants to end "discriminatory" politics maybe she should step aside and endorse Condi Rice (and/or urge her to run) in 08?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
...
If Hillary wants to end "discriminatory" politics maybe she should step aside and endorse Condi Rice (and/or urge her to run) in 08?
Doesn't Rice have enough white people telling her what she should do?
Fair play!
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We all wear a green carnation.
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I think the fact that she only got "polite applause" shows that her comment didn't even work in the audience she intended it to. Blunders like this could definitely keep the White House out of her grasp.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Doesn't Rice have enough white people telling her what she should do?
So she's a slave for the republicans, is that what you're saying?
Is this another way to rationalize someone who's a republican being black?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Doesn't Rice have enough white people telling her what she should do?
So she's a slave for the republicans, is that what you're saying?
Is this another way to rationalize someone who's a republican being black?
No, it's a pasive racism that tries to say that the only reason a black woman is in the inner circle of teh President's administration is because she's servile. It's amazing that while claiming that Republicans are the racists they have no problem directing thier venom directly at Rice's race. I guess teh Clinton administration was demonstrating thier respect for black people by keeping them OUT of teh inner circle. That must also be why there are no Black Democrat congressmen from predominantly white distrects.
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Interestingly enough many prominent Republican's have used a Dem's/plantation analogy quite a few times with no outrage. I can only surmise that because it's Hillary we get all the phony outrage! Quote:
...
In response, conservative media figures have accused Clinton of "race-baiting" and "playing the race card," because her "plantation" analogy was made before a largely black audience on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. But in doing so, these commentators did not report that Clinton made a similar "plantation" analogy during a November 2004 interview on CNN -- which garnered no media attention at the time and which cast some doubt on accusations that she was motivated by the racial makeup of her audience or event's timing. Nor did these commentators report that numerous Republicans and conservatives, including former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-GA), have used similar "plantation" analogies to attack Democrats.
On the January 17 edition of MSNBC's The Situation with Tucker Carlson, host Carlson asked viewers: "Hillary Clinton shoots off her mouth on Martin Luther King Day, likening the Republicans to slaveholders. Should she be reprimanded for using the race card?" Appearing on the January 17 edition of CNN's Live From ..., Ron Christie -- a former special assistant to President Bush and former policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney -- accused Clinton of making "terrible racially divisive comments." And in a January 18 editorial, the New York Post called Clinton's comments "naked race-baiting."
Similarly, on the January 17 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews opened the show by asking viewers: "Hillary Clinton says Republicans are guilty of running the Congress like a plantation. Do you believe it? Does she? Is she willing to say the same thing to the country she said up in Harlem?" In fact, as the Rev. Al Sharpton -- a former Democratic presidential candidate -- pointed out later in the show, Clinton had already told "the country" substantially the same thing. On the November 18, 2004, edition of CNN's American Morning, Clinton used the "plantation" analogy in response to a question from co-host Soledad O'Brien:
O'BRIEN: Another thing we were talking about in the news today, of course, is the House Republicans changing the rules to essentially inoculate Tom DeLay if, indeed, he is indicted. No, don't laugh before I finish my question here. What do you make of that this morning? We're hearing lots from -- from Capitol Hill about this.
CLINTON: Well, I mean, what can I say? It's just so typical. I mean they're running the House of Representatives like a fiefdom with Tom DeLay as, you know, in charge of the plantation. I think it's kind of a sad commentary. I don't think it's good for democracy. I don't think it's good for the Republican Party. But again, I don't have a vote in the Republican Caucus in the House. They'll decide what they want to do.
In addition, Matthews asked Sharpton: "Suppose a white conservative were to say to a white Democrat, 'You've been running the blacks in the Democratic Party for years, using them to get votes and never electing any blacks to major national office. And you're running the place like a plantation.' Would you have taken offense at that?"
Though Hardball viewers would not have known it, Matthews' question was more than a hypothetical scenario. As the Think Progress weblog has noted, an October 20, 1994, Washington Post article reported on one such comment made by Gingrich:
"I clearly fascinate them," Gingrich said of the Democrats. "I'm much more intense, much more persistent, much more willing to take risks to get it done. Since they think it is their job to run the plantation, it shocks them that I'm actually willing to lead the slave rebellion."
The following year, Rep. E. Clay Shaw Jr. (R-FL) called Democrats "overseers of the last plantation in America," as the Philadelphia Inquirer reported on February 16, 1995:
Calling Democrats the "overseers of the last plantation in America," Rep. E. Clay Shaw Jr. yesterday rebuked Democratic colleagues who accused the GOP of cruelty toward children in its welfare legislation.
Shaw (R., Fla.) and his GOP colleagues on a Ways and Means subcommittee had just approved sweeping welfare-reform legislation that would turn over most of the nation's poverty programs to the states.
"You (Democrats) have jealously guarded a corrupt poverty program for the past 40 years, and we are here to right the wrongs that were made," Shaw said.
On June 25, 1992, The New York Times reported that then-Rep. Robert S. Walker (R-PA) also used a "plantation" analogy to attack Democrats:
But such criticism paled in comparison with the hyperbole served up by Representative Robert S. Walker, Republican of Pennsylvania. First Mr. Walker likened the tight reins of Democratic control to the plantation system of the South before the Civil War, a comparison that visibly upset Southern Democrats. Then he reached farther afield and said, "It's a little like when the people of Nazi Germany were stripped of their rights."
In addition, numerous conservative commentators have used "plantation" analogies when discussing minorities in the Democratic Party.
...
Media Matters
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damn, I guess there goes E. Clay Shaw Jr.'s bid for the White house, not to mention the devistating blow this will deal Robert S. Walker's popularity.
Hopefully Media Matters can provide you a good excuse for your racist comment towards Rice.... I'd e-mail them.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
...many prominent Republican's ...
You know, I've been active in Republican politics for twenty years and I've never heard of either of two of the guys you call "prominent."
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Quote:
Hopefully Media Matters can provide you a good excuse for your racist comment towards Rice.... I'd e-mail them.
My comment concerning Rice was poking fun at you & the others. I think Jim Jackson got it considering his response. Sorry but the joke was really on you.
The Media Matters article goes on & covers a bunch of conservative writers like Coulter & Novak who are now "outraged" over Hillary using the word plantation when they themselves did the same thing.
Fair play!
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
...many prominent Republican's ...
You know, I've been active in Republican politics for twenty years and I've never heard of either of two of the guys you call "prominent."
I would consider elected representatives prominent in general but compared to Hillary I see your point. Newt Gingritch is really the only one in her league concerning name recognition. I think most of the consevative writers are all pretty recognizable.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Hopefully Media Matters can provide you a good excuse for your racist comment towards Rice.... I'd e-mail them.
My comment concerning Rice was poking fun at you & the others. I think Jim Jackson got it considering his response. Sorry but the joke was really on you.
The Media Matters article goes on & covers a bunch of conservative writers like Coulter & Novak who are now "outraged" over Hillary using the word plantation when they themselves did the same thing.
If that's where the relevance comes in, maybe you should have posted that part. Not even Republicans care about obscure Republicans.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
I like how you promote your own ignorance by denying others their own words. If I say I'm not a liberal, then, I'm not a fucking liberal.
So if a guy who worships Satan calls himself a Christian, does that make what he says true?
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Hopefully Media Matters can provide you a good excuse for your racist comment towards Rice.... I'd e-mail them.
My comment concerning Rice was poking fun at you & the others. I think Jim Jackson got it considering his response. Sorry but the joke was really on you.
The Media Matters article goes on & covers a bunch of conservative writers like Coulter & Novak who are now "outraged" over Hillary using the word plantation when they themselves did the same thing.
I'm not sure how a jibe at Rice's race is making fun of me, not your best back-peddle, but I'll leave it at that.
The thing that the conservitives I've heard have been saying isn't that it was wrong that Hill said "plantation", but that she used the occasion of MLK Jr. day to do it. Timing is everything. Also much more than that, I've heard conserviives simply say that it's innacuarate rather than wholy offensive.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
...many prominent Republican's ...
You know, I've been active in Republican politics for twenty years and I've never heard of either of two of the guys you call "prominent."
I would consider elected representatives prominent in general but compared to Hillary I see your point. Newt Gingritch is really the only one in her league concerning name recognition. I think most of the consevative writers are all pretty recognizable.
I could be wrong, but I believe Newt was refering to teh plantation of taxpayers, not of blacks. It is telling how little of his quote is used in the article.
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Guess that cartoon would pack some punch if a bunch of Republicans weren't all tangled up in a corruption scandal 
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Except there is a very good chance, if not almost certain likelihood, that the Republican nominee in 2008 will have no involvement whatsoever is said "scandal." Whereas Hillary will still be beholden to liberal interest groups.
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And the Republican won't have his own Enron's & Abromoffs?
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Do you really think that either party would nominate a candidate who was implicated in either Abramoff or Enron?
Don't be silly.
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Don't be silly? Remember this is the guy saying the Reason Bin-Laden is parroting the left's talking points is because he secretly wants Bush re-elected. So silly is just a part of the game plan these days.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Do you really think that either party would nominate a candidate who was implicated in either Abramoff or Enron?
Don't be silly.
My point was that any candidate is going to come with special interests attached. I didn't pick good examples of special interest though.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Do you really think that either party would nominate a candidate who was implicated in either Abramoff or Enron?
Don't be silly.
My point was that any candidate is going to come with special interests attached. I didn't pick good examples of special interest though.
I actually agree with MEM on this one.
Democrat or Republican, every Senator or Congressman in Washington is beholden to some group for the campaign finances that got them elected, and continues to keep them re-elected.
It's been discussed here that John McCain, the champion of the McCain-Fiengold campaign finance reform bill (which was praised as the bill that would end campaign finance based corruption, but has done little if anything to change the finance-based system of corruption), that McCain exempted the groups that are his bread and butter in re-election funding.
And you can bet the same people who praise McCain now, for publicly dissenting from Bush's policy, will be quick to tear him down and vilify him as one of the "culture of corruption", if he becomes a leading Republican contender in 2008.
And for all the high-sounding words, I don't see any real effort beyond lip-service, from the Left or the Right, to change the campaign finance system.
The area where I disagree with you, MEM, is your attempt to label it a Republican problem.
It has, through many decades and many Presidents, been a problem affecting the majority of both parties.
Tom Delay.
Jim Wright.
John Glenn.
Jim Traficant.
Abscam.
Abramoff.
And the small group of individuals from both parties (such as Vin Weber) who genuinely want to change the system to something truly serving the best interests of the people, often end up leaving office in disgust because of those who vastly outnumber them (on the Left and the Right) who are getting rich off special interest funds.
Or at best, if not greed and getting rich, Senators and Congressmen who desperately need special interest funds to get re-elected, in order to compete on a level playing field against their political election opponents, who are in turn financed by other special interest funds.
So how does an honest man get elected ?
It's kind of like a nuclear arms race.
Where there's huge financial power you need in campaign finance to even play. And it's very hard, a great risk, for either side to stand down and give up those funds.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,816 Likes: 41
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,816 Likes: 41 |
I'm not sure that we disagree all that much Wonder Boy on that. I think the Abromoff scandal is going to be a Republican scandal in that so far it looks like only Republicans may be indicted. I'm sure there are Dems that could be caught in other scandals though. My guess is there will be a plethora of scandals slated for the coming months. Where we might disagree is that I also believe part of the problem is there is one party in power now. That much power tends to corrupt IMHO.
I like McCain. While I have no illusions about him being perfect I would hope he gets another crack at running again. One thing that bugged me with the 2004 election were the candidates, like McCain, with long records of public service paying a price for that experience.
Fair play!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
On the other hand, the founding fathers conceived of a nation that would have "citizen legislators", not career politicians.
One of the things, in my opinion, that leads to the "culture of corruption" is the fact our "leaders" begin to look at public service as a career. In order to keep their now-full-time jobs they do things that make them beholden to "special interests" and contributors.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1 |
Just out of curiosity, why does everyone dislike Hillary Clinton (seeting aside partisan preferences)?
Is it Whitewater?
Seems to me that as the wronged wife of a former President, she'd attract sympathy not intolerance.
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