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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
PS. The reason I aim any of this at you is because you're the biggest mouth and potentially the narrowest mind on this subject in this forum.
I think you're just a jackass, who needlessly drags this issue out because of some kind of vendetta against me.
The big mouth and narrow mind insult, it seems to me, more aptly applies to you.
I generally try not to insult, except in retaliation for comments directed at me that can't be ignored, and excluding that situation, simply try to discuss the issue. Whereas you insult me in pretty much every post.
The other points you raise have already been answered in the topic. Most of them at least 20 times. Learn to read.
~
Thanks for your comments, Capt. Sammitch. The psychological counselors I first mentioned on page 22 of this topic similarly have people come to them (as opposed to approaching gays).
And reading their treatment criteria (at their link), it's clear that they likewise present a loving, welcoming and nurturing environment to get gays introduced to an alternative to the homosexual lifestyle, and clearly have the goal in mind of allowing them to live happier and more fulfilling lives.
As opposed to the God hates homosexuals and You're going to Hell approach of some evangelist groups.
Which as you say, is offputting.
( I don't want to imply that what your church does is identical to what this group of psychologists does. I'm sure it's not. Just that they have a vaguely similar loving/caring approach, as opposed to a fire-and-brimstone approach )
I only raise the "abomination" Biblical description here in this topic because others have alleged that Judao-Christian marriage is compatible with gay marriage. And in answer to that, have made clear what the Bible says, consistently throughout.
But that's not how I'd approach a gay person, unless a gay person alleged that Biblical marriage and gay marriage are compatible. Which has been done many times in this topic.
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"I think you're just a jackass"
And Dave, I think you're a fucking bigot (maybe even a bigot fucker, too).
We all wear a green carnation.
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Sammitch: "He said it because it was implicit, Jim. "
It make no sense that these extremely intelligent men, who've just won a revolution and who make the first amendment to the Consitution ABOUT FREEDOM OF RELIGION, to leave something THAT IMPORTANT implicit.
Try again.
Jim
We all wear a green carnation.
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Heh. I suppose that's a whole 'nother conversation.
Tell you what. I'll let that particular point of discussion drop. It's not gonna accomplish anything in this thread.
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From page 7 of the topic:
Quote:
Dave the Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I read "tradition and policy" as "homophobia".
I read "homophobia" as daring to voice an intelligent opinion that bucks the opinion of the gay/liberal community, and being falsely labelled a "hater" of some kind, to undermine dismissively the logic and intelligence of those views.
I read the "bigot" label the same way.
~
And I already answered the question of Christianity's essential role in the forming of American democracy, in this post to the "Islamic Ignorance" topic:
http://www.rkmbs.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=206064&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Quote:
Dave the Wonder Boy said:
The role of Christianity as an essential element in American democracy is clear in the writings of the founding fathers.
The only fear of our founding fathers was that one form of Christianity would possibly rise to dominate how Christianity was practiced in the United States, as the Roman Catholic church had dominated Europe. They valued Christianity as an essential element in democracy, and in education, as is reflected in these quotes:
Quote:
Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man toward God.
Gouverneur Morris, signer of the Constitution.
from The Life of Gouverneur Morris by Jared Sparks, vol 3, p 483
There was a belief by the founding fathers that previous attempts at democracy had inevitably failed because of the absence of Biblical principles in their foundation, as in the Greek and Roman empires.
Their belief was that without Christian teaching and principles, democracy could only descend into chaos and self-destruction. That only the Bible could make democracy in the United States turn out differently:
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Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
James Madison
from The Federalist on the New Constitution, p 53
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Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a Democracy that did not commit suicide.
John Adams
from Works, John Adams, vol 6, p 484, from a letter by Adams.
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All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, opression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.
Noah Webster.
from The History of the United States, by Webster, p 309
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The only true basis of all government [is] the laws of God and nature. For government is an ordinance of Heaven, designed by the all-benevolent Creator.
Samuel Adams
from Writings, vol 1 p 269
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The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained... It is impossible to rightly govern without God and the Bible.
George Washington,
from A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents, vol 1, pp52-53
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The law dictated by God Himself is, of course, superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries and at all times. No human laws are of any validity if contrary to this.
Alexander Hamilton
from The Papers of Alexander Hamilton by Harold C. Syret, vol 1, p 87
Quote:
It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Patrick Henry
from God's Providence in American History, by Steve Dawson, p 1
The concept "separation of Church and State" is in no U.S. document of government. It is a creation in the 20th century, from a phrase Jefferson wrote in a personal letter to a friend.
It is NOT in any of Jefferson's books. But technically, it is in one of his writings. It is one phrase by Jefferson, not something he passionately argued for.
But in any case, the role of Christianity in forming the principles of American democracy is clear. And the desire that Christian principles would continue to be an enduring part of that democracy, as long as American democracy continues to exist.
--------------------
"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."
Last edited by Dave the Wonder Boy; 2004-02-27 7:12 PM.
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Quote:
The concept "separation of Church and State" is in no U.S. document of government. It is a creation in the 20th century, from a phrase Jefferson wrote in a personal letter to a friend.
It is NOT in any of Jefferson's books. But technically, it is in one of his writings. It is one phrase by Jefferson, not something he passionately argued for.
But in any case, the role of Christianity in forming the principles of American democracy is clear. And the desire that Christian principles would continue to be an enduring part of that democracy, as long as American democracy continues to exist.
Says who? The millions of Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, etc in your country? Or you?
The following is being posted on behalf of a friend of mine named Mike who doesn't have a working ID at this particular message board...
Quote:
I've been reading this monster of a thread for quite a while now. I have to admit, it's quite fascinating. Some strong arguments have been put forth here. I do have a few opinions of my own.
A few dates for you.
5-23-02
12-29-03
1-02-04
1-05-04
1-11-04
1-13-04
1-14-04
1-17-04
1-21-04
1-24-04
These, for the record, are the dates in which Dave The Wonder Boy posted on threads in the Women forum of this board. The majority of these threads contained pornographic pictures which Dave admits to approving of.
1-09-04
1-10-04
1-11-04
1-13-04
1-15-04
1-16-04
1-18-04
1-21-04
1-23-04
These are the dates in which Dave The Wonder Boy posted pornographic images of his own, some of which clearly came from sites which require an expensive monthly fee. Some of the images also seem to have come from a spam e-mail recieved by Dave, which he looked into further just out of "curiousity".
Now, I'm no Christian. Never have been. Unless I'm too much mistaken, though, both the manufacture and enjoyment of pornography is considered a sin by Christians. This is merely a theory based on personal experience, but it's rare to find a man who has memberships to at least two Internet porn sites who doesn't masturbate to the images found there. One must also realize that masturbation is also a sin in the eyes of Christians.
Now, Dave, I don't want it to seem like I'm picking on you here, but one must guess that, based on the evidence, you spend a hell of a lot of time surfing the Net for porn. Some of the days you spent posting porn on this board were even Sundays, Dave. I may need correction on that point, actually. Do Christians consider Sunday to be the Sabbath, or is that just a Catholic thing?
Mind you, I'm not one to judge. If you want to spend your free time sinning, Dave, then more power to you. Still, the frequency with which you seem to enjoy your porn indicates that this is a serious problem. One that a good Christian might even seek redemption and forgiveness for. Have you spoken about this to your pastor yet? Or, in lieu of that, prayed to God for guidance on this matter? If these questions are too personal, Dave, do let me know.
Still, I would have to guess that you have not, considering how recent some of those dates are. One could theorize that you don't really see this as a sin, or perhaps as a smaller sin not really worthy of God's wrath. Certainly not as bad as, for example, homosexuality. One might start to think that you, like so many other Christians, only pay lip service to your "faith". For example, you wallow in the filth of pornography, because you personally enjoy it. Yet, you are willing to deny homosexuals the rights due to all tax-paying Americans simply because it would infringe upon your rights to pursue your faith. Rather convenient, isn't it?
For the record, what is your personal belief on pornography, Dave? Will you be standing up to be counted amongst those who wish to see it outlawed? Surely you will, as it goes so blatantly against the Christian values that you clutch so fervently to your bosom.
It's odd to me, I admit. You are more than willing to class homosexuals as lower-class citizens because of your religious beliefs, yet you spend a great deal of time sinning, and spreading that sin to your fellow perverts here. Do you know what they say about a man who has strong feelings against homosexuality, and spends a great deal of his time proclaiming loudly about his attraction to the opposite sex? Like you, Dave, I am no psychiatrist. Perhaps we can all come to our own conclusions here.
I'm just curious, Dave. Feel free to ignore my questions if you like. Looking at the evidence, though, one might start to think that your opposition to gay marriage has to do with some deep personal bias, and that you're using the Bible to excuse this resentment. I know that a good porn-loving Christian like you would never do such a thing, though.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Uhm.....Dude, sample pictures have watermarks too. So this guy has drawn to almost faulty conclusions. I say this because I once heard Dave say something along the lines of, "do people actually pay for this?"
Danny, this guy you're quoting seems rather obsessed-- With Dave in particular. Even I wouldn't bother to note dates to argue credibility. All he need to do is look at current arguments Dave made. Seeing as how he's not doing this.......Well....  And really, implying that because someone looks at porn makes him a hypocrite is WAY off base. Especially when it has to do with straight porn (and really, you couldn't conisder the stuff he posted real porn). You know even REALLY devout Catholics (like my family) don't have problems with nude models. And saying that bias would arrive from looking at pictures that would coincide with his sexuality is a stupid pursuit (in this type of argument none the less). It's way too broad an argument to be narrowed on one side of the sexual spectrum.
What's more, trying to argue all of this with uninformed views is beyond idiotic. This guy's not only presuming to know what is considered a sin in the Catholic/Christian eyes, but he's also presuming to know the intensity of the sins themselves. He's also perpetuating a stereotype that red blooded humans can't be just as easily attracted to others despite title of religion.
Tell your friend to do more research and stop trying to use pusillanimous flanking tactics to try and hurt the validity someone's opinion. It shows the beyond desparate acts of someone running out of solid arguments.
~~~
Dave, I'm sorry if I overstepped my grounds, but he might as well have been insulting me too. 
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NU UH!! I see him right now!!
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http://208.56.183.233/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001764&p=
Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Or you could post that shit at Kamphausen's boards. Home of dumbshit comic geeks. I tried for ages to argue the gay marriage thing with some Christian fuckknob and the guy still refuses to grasp the basic concepts of reason and compassion.
I have a couple of questions? Do you really have a "friend" who wrote this or are you so spineless that you made your friend up? It's funnt that you call this the home of dumbshit comic geeks, and yet you Knoll nerds are so scared of differing views you wont approve membership of anyone who won't join in the clique mentality. Fact is, these boards are home to the NB's the most powerful force in the online world, you jealousy speaks volumes! You may now go back to you falling over each other for reaffirmation at the Knoll....we win again!
Last edited by britneyspearsatemyshorts; 2004-02-28 12:52 AM.
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Quote:
Fact is, these boards are home to the NB's the most powerful force in the online world, you jealousy speaks volumes!
Nope. The 9mm boarders are actually.
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Not that I think there is anything wrong with you guys masterbating buuut you may have forgotten that the Bible has something to say about that... http://www.bible.com/answers/amasturb.html"I made a covenant with my eyes not to look with lust upon a girl. I know full well that the Almighty God sends calamity on those who do" (Job 31:1-3, The Living Bible). "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). 
Fair play!
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So if you are gonna think it you might as well do it.
now known as rex
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
http://208.56.183.233/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001764&p=
Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Or you could post that shit at Kamphausen's boards. Home of dumbshit comic geeks. I tried for ages to argue the gay marriage thing with some Christian fuckknob and the guy still refuses to grasp the basic concepts of reason and compassion.
I have a couple of questions? Do you really have a "friend" who wrote this or are you so spineless that you made your friend up? It's funnt that you call this the home of dumbshit comic geeks, and yet you Knoll nerds are so scared of differing views you wont approve membership of anyone who won't join in the clique mentality. Fact is, these boards are home to the NB's the most powerful force in the online world, you jealousy speaks volumes! You may now go back to you falling over each other for reaffirmation at the Knoll....we win again!
Is that the same Danny who was falling all over himself to get accepted by the NBs?
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APA Reissues Warning Over 'Reparative' Therapy Wednesday, February 16th 2000 WASHINGTON -- The American Psychiatric Association has issued an updated fact sheet on the potential harm caused by "reparative therapy," adding its condemnation of the practice to the persistent national debate over whether gay men and lesbians can become heterosexual using therapeutic techniques. The Cox News Service reports the updated fact-sheet on "Homosexual and Bisexual Issues," issued on Feb. 5, reaffirms the organization's position that there is no clinical evidence that psychiatric intervention has any lasting impact on changing a patient's sexual orientation. It also reaffirmed that some studies show it can, in fact, be harmful. Overview of this issue > Ex-Gay and Conversion Ministries Web Sites > APA Q&A on Homosexuality Other Data Lounge stories > Washington DC Send this article to a friend"Sexual orientation, like gender identity, appears to be established early in life," the APA says. While the group acknowledges that anecdotal reports contend psychotherapy has helped change gay men and lesbians' sexual orientation "for some motivated individuals for limited periods of time," the association also said "such changes often are accompanied by depression, anxiety and other symptoms." The organization said the most effective long-term therapeutic solution for people suffering guilt, shame and self-hatred over their same-sex desires is aimed at reaffirming their sense of worth in what the APA calls a homophobic society. "Relief of homophobia allows for better psychological functioning," the statement explained. "Those who have integrated their sexual orientation into a positive sense of themselves function at a healthier psychological level than those who have not." -- C. Barillas, Editor http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=5406Pariah I can't find any article that matches what you described. So I can't really comment on it. Captain Sammich, if those guys are truly content then I'm happy for them. Not quite sure how that would somehow change their attraction to the same sex though. I know plenty of gays that seem to come from happy religous homes. Mine was practically the Brady Bunch. It still didn't make me straight, it did however make me a better,stronger person. And all 20 changing their orientation? Narth & these other de-gaying groups don't claim anything like that even & as posted above the APA still says reparative therapy can even cause harm in some cases.
Fair play!
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Quote:
"I made a covenant with my eyes not to look with lust upon a girl. I know full well that the Almighty God sends calamity on those who do" (Job 31:1-3, The Living Bible).
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).
Venial sin. Not required in confession. ACTING upon lust however is a mortal sin and therefore required for confession.
God's more lenient than the apostles and prophets because they have to sruggle so much to keep themselves in check. St. Augustine is the greatest example of overdoing......Strictness when it comes to sex in the church. He created the biggest stigma using his desired lifestyle as an example. His trouble in converting from a player into a chaste person was really hard, so he always spoke with a lot of harshness. Circumstances differ, but this isn't unlike the reasons for the outlooks the others adopted.
Anyway, the way I'm seeing it, those verses are telling us to be careful. Period. Temptation is hard to overcome.
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Quote:
Send this article to a friend"Sexual orientation, like gender identity, appears to be established early in life," the APA says.
This part fuels my case it seems. If it's ESTABLISHED, you're not actually born with it.
Quote:
Pariah I can't find any article that matches what you described. So I can't really comment on it.
I can't either. Until I do, just ignore it.
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Or you could post that shit at Kamphausen's boards. Home of dumbshit comic geeks. I tried for ages to argue the gay marriage thing with some Christian fuckknob and the guy still refuses to grasp the basic concepts of reason and compassion.
I have a couple of questions? Do you really have a "friend" who wrote this or are you so spineless that you made your friend up?
It does seem kinda odd that this friend has time to record the dates of Dave the whatever's posts, but can't just fucking register the name "Mike" or something to make his own post...
Unfortunately, it's not imaginary, unless Mad Hatter is one of Danny's alts:
http://208.56.183.233/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001768
And that's terrible.
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
http://208.56.183.233/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001764&p=
Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Or you could post that shit at Kamphausen's boards. Home of dumbshit comic geeks. I tried for ages to argue the gay marriage thing with some Christian fuckknob and the guy still refuses to grasp the basic concepts of reason and compassion.
I have a couple of questions? Do you really have a "friend" who wrote this or are you so spineless that you made your friend up? It's funnt that you call this the home of dumbshit comic geeks, and yet you Knoll nerds are so scared of differing views you wont approve membership of anyone who won't join in the clique mentality. Fact is, these boards are home to the NB's the most powerful force in the online world, you jealousy speaks volumes! You may now go back to you falling over each other for reaffirmation at the Knoll....we win again!
Please the Knoll is a place where aspiring "writers" can talk about whats so terribly wrong about the comic's industry while they struggle with the minimum wage jobs.
too blessed to be stressed
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Quote:
MAD HATTER said:
Responses have already come in, with not a shred of sense among them. I've immediately discounted BSAMS' rambling, as the fact that our membership criteria here is only that the person in question be literate seems to have escaped him.
strong men also cry
strong
men
also
cry
too blessed to be stressed
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
"I made a covenant with my eyes not to look with lust upon a girl. I know full well that the Almighty God sends calamity on those who do" (Job 31:1-3, The Living Bible).
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).
Venial sin. Not required in confession. ACTING upon lust however is a mortal sin and therefore required for confession.
God's more lenient than the apostles and prophets because they have to sruggle so much to keep themselves in check. St. Augustine is the greatest example of overdoing......Strictness when it comes to sex in the church. He created the biggest stigma using his desired lifestyle as an example. His trouble in converting from a player into a chaste person was really hard, so he always spoke with a lot of harshness. Circumstances differ, but this isn't unlike the reasons for the outlooks the others adopted.
Anyway, the way I'm seeing it, those verses are telling us to be careful. Period. Temptation is hard to overcome.
So despite that they say one thing it really means something else? Where is God more lenient? In Leviticus he's very strict on sperm usage & in some fairly strange ways (by todays standards at least) but I don't see him being more lenient.
Fair play!
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Somebody should tell Mad Hatter he doesn't even need a valid e-mail address to post at this place. As probably anyone who's posted with many alt IDs could tell you, just register the name, put down any e-mail address you feel like, and log in. You don't even need to read the confirmation e-mail.
Wait, he's been reading this thread. So I guess I'm letting him know...
And that's terrible.
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Hes probably the same guy from Clear Channel thats trying to censor Stern!
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Aside from the sexual orientation debate raging on here, i wanted to bring this back up because it personally offended me. Now i'm assuming that most everyone here is a white male so perhaps these comments didn't come across as immflammatory as the thought of 2 men getting it on. However......
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
Looking at American culture from a racial/ethnic perspective, white/European Americans are and have long been the majority in the U.S., but that is projected to decine to a minority of 43% or so by the year 2040, as non-European immigration, and domestic non-European birth rates increase at a faster rate than domestic white/European Americans (which are at pretty much zero growth rate, pretty much just having two children per family).
So there are two ways in which America is rapidly changing, like at no time in its history:
There is the racial perspective, of a declining European percentage.
And there is the cultural perspective, of liberals attempting to aggressively leverage out conservative institutions.
I think my area in Florida is changing both racially and culturally, at a much faster rate than the rest of the nation.
While I speak Spanish, I resent having to select English when I call my bank or use my ATM.
As I've detailed elsewhere, on the one hand, I find it exciting to meet so many people from so many places. But at the same time, I find it a bit threatening, that immigration and foreign presence in the U.S. has become so overwhelming. I would like to see immigration reduced by at least half, to allow recent immigrants to assimilate into American culture.
But I don't find the racial change in America nearly as threatening as the cultural change: the rise of gay marriage, gay adoption, and gay/liberal undermining of the values that I grew up with.
And swing clubs, rampant escort services and prostitution, and the number of people I've met personally who engage in group sex, promiscuity and drugs. And psychics, and gambling casinos, body piercing, tattoos...
This is not my fricking America.
As someone pointed out somewhere earlier, I think the biggest thing we're facing from a cultural perspective is FEAR.
I just want to say something regarding America one day no longer being the bastion of straight white male supermacy. SO FRICKIN WHAT??!
It certainly is MY AMERICA. And it's the America to millions of people who live together happily with their differences and cultures intact. In Los Angeles, in New York, in Chicago and a growing number of American cities.
To those who reject diversity, well, pretty soon, there won't be a Montana or Arizona where they can flee to 'whiter pastures'. They'll just have to swallow their bigotry and wish their daughters well as they take that nice young black or asian or latino guy to the prom. That or else start fucking each other more to increase their white numbers.
As far as ASSimiliation, I take that to mean the "melting pot" approach. The old Ellis Island ploy of making the Russian "Bogdon" into the Americanized Bobby, the Ukranian "Rudov's" into Rudolph's, the Jose's into "Joe". Why?
Because the white man fears and is repelled by the very notion of ethnicity??
That everything 'not like us' has to be completely obliterated into a nice facsimile of WASP blandness? Yes America is changing.That is not scary in the least. Except perhaps to bigots and white supremacists. People aern't going to come to America any more and "become" what others tell them they have to be in order to be accepted into the mainstream. Which of course is a WASP. So yeah, that offends people hence "english only" laws and immigration wedge rhetoric in the political discourse.
"You don't make me. I AM ME" - John Lydon
Also, whether anyone engages in group sex, in homosexual sex, in body peircing or tattoing and gambling. Again. SO WHAT??!!!
I assumed we we're a free country. Free to embrace or reject puritanical values and ideas. It seems the fact that people who reject the pentecostal mindset far outnumber those who do is what scares you too. And I fail to see any 'sinfulness' in body art. If you step back though, it really sounds like something out of theTaliban Guide to better living. But i guess this is the road you take when you try to legislate 'sanctity'.
As far as Florida, I'm encouraged that at least one area of the deep south will soon resemble other less repressive, more cosmopolitian areas such as the 2 coasts (LA & NY) rather than say, Georgia or Alabama and hopefully drag the rest of the region out of the Confederacy and into the 21st century where the rest of the nation happily resides.
And on to gay marriage......
Again, FEAR. Fear that the old ways are falling by the wayside. Hence a militant conservatism to ensure that everyone once more remembers their place in society.
Now i'm off. As some of you may have noticed, i'm making myself more scarce on account of this place resembling a hate group meeting half the time (namely this thread) amd a curiosity to see if the right wing vitrol would find new targets to vent their paranioa. I see it has.
Last edited by whomod; 2004-02-28 9:41 AM.
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February 24, 2004
COMMENTARY
Keep Your Tired, Poor Stereotypes
Colorful cultural quilt has replaced the 'melting pot.'
By Stanley Karnow, Stanley Karnow was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in history in 1990. His most recent book is "Paris in the Fifties" (Times Books, 1997).
Chauvinists worried that immigration threatens to blemish the nation's "purity" might look at the Washington suburb where I live. It was a drowsy, lily-white stretch of farms, stables and split-level houses when we moved there 30 years ago. Since then, it has burgeoned into a multicultural, multicolored, multilingual enclave — dramatic evidence that the U.S., despite its manifold defects, is a beacon for throngs from everywhere.
In contrast to the wretched, tempest-tost, huddled masses sketched by Emma Lazarus in her celebrated poem, many newcomers are educated, skilled, wealthy and fluent in English. They disembark attuned to the best and the worst of the U.S. from their exposure to its movies, radio programs and television shows, or from the Internet. Their teenagers sport baseball caps and Levi's, ride skateboards and are acquainted with Coke, Big Macs, Mickey Mouse, Madonna and Elvis. Others who come may fit Lazarus' description. But rich or poor, they come eager to work hard for a better life.
My neighbors include a German architect and his Iranian wife, a Palestinian contractor, a Korean scientist and a car salesman from Madagascar. An Indian physician converted her home into a miniature Taj Mahal, replete with bronze elephants on the lawn.
The local clinic employs an acupuncturist versed in the subtleties of yang and yin. Filipinos nurse the elderly. The mechanic at the garage is Senegalese, the attendants Mongolian and Pakistani. My barber is a French-Jewish woman who traces her lineage back to Tunisia. The shop is owned by a Korean. We rely for repairs on a group of Jamaican carpenters, electricians, painters and plumbers. Our part-time gardener is a Salvadoran. Initially he came into the area by bus, but now he has a truck.
The supermarket is staffed by Filipinos, Cameroonians, Haitians, Latinos, Indians, Thais and a Tibetan. It's stocked with borscht, matzo, couscous, mango chutney, shitake mushrooms, lemon grass, taro and varied herbs. There are dozens of kinds of rices and noodles.
The community center offers classes in tai chi chuan, karate and yoga. Books, periodicals and videos, tapes and DVDs in Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Italian, Korean, Russian, Tagalog and Vietnamese are available at the public library. At the elementary school, a teacher from Beijing is "immersing" kindergartners in the rudiments of Mandarin. One morning, when I casually dropped in on them, they were perched on the stools and gleefully chanting ditties in rote, reminding me of toddlers in Hong Kong, my base as a correspondent during the 1960s.
This spectacular demographic transformation owes its genesis to President Lyndon Johnson. In 1965, consistent with his sweeping liberal agenda, he persuaded Congress to legislate a progressive immigration law. Among other things, it repealed the patently racist statute promoted in 1924 by jingoists and super-patriots that cut legal immigration by half as a device to curb the admission of "undesirables" from Eastern and Southern Europe. Today, 30 million Americans are foreign-born.
The "melting pot" concept, glorified as the paradigm, turned out to be an illusion, primarily because people sought to preserve their distinct identities. We are closer to the notion of "cultural pluralism" broached in 1925 by the Jewish philosopher Horace Kallen. Dismayed by the thought of dissolving his pedigree in an Anglocentric caldron, he suggested a "loose federation of nationalities … cooperating voluntarily through a multiplicity of autonomous institutions." Die-hard conformists vehemently decried his proposal as a gambit for championing "hyphenated" Americanism. But he was remarkably prescient.
The syrupy Norman Rockwell illustration of the country as an exclusive WASP domain has faded into oblivion as we evolve into a land of diverse minorities. The danger, however, is that unum may be eclipsed by pluribus, and we become a fragmented society. The phenomenon is apparent on college campuses, where student activists, prodded by their politically correct professors, stridently clamor for segregated dining halls, fraternities, lounges and curriculums. Immigrants are impervious to this trend.
Recently, while paying a bill at the gas station, I noticed that the black cashier was perusing a newspaper in an language unfamiliar to me. "I'm Ethiopian," he explained, then asked me: "Are you Jewish?" Amazed, I replied, "Yes." "So am I," he replied, adding "shalom" as he handed me my change.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
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Send this article to a friend"Sexual orientation, like gender identity, appears to be established early in life," the APA says.
This part fuels my case it seems. If it's ESTABLISHED, you're not actually born with it.Quote:
This was from the link that fully explains their position...
What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation?
There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality.
In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people.
Fair play!
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So despite that they say one thing it really means something else? Where is God more lenient? In Leviticus he's very strict on sperm usage & in some fairly strange ways (by todays standards at least) but I don't see him being more lenient.
Dude, there was no masturbation involved. There was no waste of seed. These were examples of thought and lustful longing. It's the physical violations that matter most. Leviticus went over physical abominations.
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Quote:
There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality.
Really? Is it all conclusive? What are they basing it on?
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Quote:
Now i'm off. As some of you may have noticed, i'm making myself more scarce on account of this place resembling a hate group meeting half the time (namely this thread) amd a curiosity to see if the right wing vitrol would find new targets to vent their paranioa. I see it has.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
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Send this article to a friend"Sexual orientation, like gender identity, appears to be established early in life," the APA says.
This part fuels my case it seems. If it's ESTABLISHED, you're not actually born with it.Quote:
On the same note, it also establishes you're not BORN straight either. Your sexuality develops as you grow older.
But then the whole "choose to be gay" issue is mainly one of people wanting to find excuses to hate. If you can argue that people CHOOSE a life of persecution and discrimination, then you really don't have to feel bad about being the one doing the persecuting. After all "they CHOOSE to offend me and bring it upon themselves with their choices in life". 
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Quote:
On the same note, it also establishes you're not BORN straight either. Your sexuality develops as you grow older.
But then the whole "choose to be gay" issue is mainly one of people wanting to find excuses to hate. If you can argue that people CHOOSE a life of persecution and discrimination, then you really don't have to feel bad about being the one doing the persecuting. After all "they CHOOSE to offend me and bring it upon themselves with their choices in life".
Again:
It seems you totally ignored the issue and drifted off course just to launch another smear campaign. Yeah, I'm pretty much not surprised.
I think I made it rather apparent that I'm arguing that people CHOOSE to go about using their bodies in an unhealthy, wrong, and particularly dangerous manner. Of course me main qualms with same sex marriage arise because it is an abomination, but because I've actually been focusing on the latter line of reasoning moreso, allow me to get a bit more in depth.
I don't belive we choose to be anything. It all just happens due to a conglomeration of random events that shape us. Those same events lead us to have attractions to our own sex, small boys/girls, to kill people because it SEEMS right, cannibalize, etc.. I don't NECESSARILY think that people CHOOSED to be the way they are (I believe that a great deal of people choose, but they're beside the point because of their particular statistic). I do, however, believe that people CHOOSE to do and not do what they percieve as faulty actions. Whether it FELT natural or not would make no difference in this case. It is in this right that I see gay people CHOOSING to be gay. To reiterate: Yes, I am comparing homosexuality to the numerous existing fetishes and psychological disorders that exist. No different than my depression or that lady who lives across the street from me who's into bondage..... 
It may sound like I'm being very strict, but it is indeed possible to avoid or (especially in this case) overcome being gay. I see it no differently than me forcing myself to not touch myself. All of you who don't share my opinion may consider this repression of emotion, sexual energy, whatever! But consider the following:
You've actually stumbled onto a corellation here Whomod. We choose to do right or wrong. That's a given......
Now, we know that being straight is the only natural sexual establishment. And we also know that having homosexual sex is the wrong way to go about: A) Stimulating nerves and  Reproduction.
We also know that promoting hate is wrong and spreading peace right. Hate is unhealthy in every sense of the word, it's unhealthy even in the ways I described up top.
So lets break it down:
Hate is wrong and causes damage, therefore, we must CHOOSE to stay away from it.
Homosexuality is wrong and causes damage, therefore, we must CHOOSE to stay away from it (just like you want us to CHOOSE to stay away from a life of discriminating and persecuting).
Hey look at that! I found a connection between societal etiquette and religious/moral (Catholic in my case) constraint. 
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Gay Marriage: Is D.C. Next?
by Paul Johnson
365Gay.com Newscenter
Washington Bureau Chief
Posted: February 28, 2004 12:01 a.m. ET
(Washington, D.C.) Same-sex marriage may be come coming to George W. Bush's own front door.
District of Columbia City Administrator Robert Bobb said Friday that officials are looking into whether the city can legally perform same-sex marriages.
Interviewed on Georgetown University radio station WAMU, Bobb said that Mayor Anthony Williams has asked the Corporation Counsel to look into the legal and constitutional issues.
The city already has a domestic partners law on the books, but Williams came out last week in favor of same-sex marriage. Williams said he is "on record as far back as the 1998 campaign in recognizing that marriage ought to apply to everybody."
Asked about the President's backing on a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, the mayor says he's glad Congress cleared the way for the District to implement its domestic partners program in early 2001. The city's health department has been issuing domestic partner registration certificates since July of 2002.
In the two weeks since San Francisco began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples nearly 4,000 couples have married, the most notable being Rosie and Kelli O'Donnell on Thursday. (story)
On Friday the mayor of a small village north of New York City performed more than twenty marriages for same-sex couples. (story) Last week a suburb of Phoenix issued marriage licenses to about about 100 gay and lesbian couples before the state Attorney General put a stop to it. (story). Chicago's mayor Daley has also said he would not object to same-sex marriages in the Windy City.
In May same-sex marriage will be legal in Massachusetts. (story)
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Kristogar Velo said:
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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
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Danny said:
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Or you could post that shit at Kamphausen's boards. Home of dumbshit comic geeks. I tried for ages to argue the gay marriage thing with some Christian fuckknob and the guy still refuses to grasp the basic concepts of reason and compassion.
I have a couple of questions? Do you really have a "friend" who wrote this or are you so spineless that you made your friend up?
It does seem kinda odd that this friend has time to record the dates of Dave the whatever's posts, but can't just fucking register the name "Mike" or something to make his own post...
Unfortunately, it's not imaginary, unless Mad Hatter is one of Danny's alts:
http://208.56.183.233/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001768
.....seems i already got under hatters skin .... i love this stuff
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It's Rob Kamphausen's boards for his personal site, Cuck.
What's your e-mail, Martin???? Lord, someone help me. If this Christian cocksucker gets gets up on his high horse one more time without my being able to respond...well, I won't be responsible for my actions.
i may be wrong but isnt this the guy the midget who changed his convention plans because of RONIN? i'd hate to see what he does if someone gets on their high horse again oooooohhhh.....and remember he wont be responsible! they shoulda renamed it the dorky knoll.....they still aint figured it's just a message board, theirs nothing he can do but make a long winded geekdom post.....
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....of course i can see them still being a little sore about a certain group of non existent people shutting down their last board .....
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
So despite that they say one thing it really means something else? Where is God more lenient? In Leviticus he's very strict on sperm usage & in some fairly strange ways (by todays standards at least) but I don't see him being more lenient.
Dude, there was no masturbation involved. There was no waste of seed. These were examples of thought and lustful longing. It's the physical violations that matter most. Leviticus went over physical abominations.
I pointed out Leviticus because that was the one place God speaks about sex that I remembered off hand. Are there passages in the Bible that indicate something else concerning masterbation? Internet search brings up stuff like this...
http://www.biblechristians.org/answers.cfm?ID=105
Browse All Questions
Is it a sin to masturbate?
Yes. Masturbation is a sin even if you are not thinking “sexual thoughts” while doing it.
Genesis 38:8-10 records the incident where God slew Onan for purposely spilling his seed, ie. Masturbation. (You will notice that it had nothing to do about whether he was thinking sexual thoughts.)
"Then Judah said to Onan, 'Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.' But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also." (Genesis 38:8-10)
Some theologians try to explain away this passage by saying that it was not Onan's act of purposely spilling his semen that angered God, but rather that it was Onan’s refusal to raise up children for his brother (the levirate marriage law) which offended God to the point that He punished Onan with death. However, though in Judah's day it was the custom of those people to give the widow in marriage to one of the brothers of the deceased husband, God had not yet instituted the levirate marriage law. God does not institute that law until Deut 25:5ff. And even if that law were to be applied in Onan's case, the punishment for refusing to carry out that law was only the removal of the man’s sandal and then spitting in his face--not death (see Deut 25:9). So why did God punish Onan with death? The only other thing Onan did was to purposely spill his seed (waste it). That is the answer. The reason why God punishes Onan with death is because he purposely spilled and wasted his seed in an act that is meant to be open to the possibility of God creating new life through that act.
In addition, masturbating usually, if not always, involves at least imagining sexual encounters with other persons in order to achieve orgasm. This sounds an awful lot like lusting to me. And lusting after imaginary women (or men as the case may be) while masturbating is still lusting - which our Lord condemned. (Mt. 5:28).
Fair play!
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
On the same note, it also establishes you're not BORN straight either. Your sexuality develops as you grow older.
But then the whole "choose to be gay" issue is mainly one of people wanting to find excuses to hate. If you can argue that people CHOOSE a life of persecution and discrimination, then you really don't have to feel bad about being the one doing the persecuting. After all "they CHOOSE to offend me and bring it upon themselves with their choices in life".
Again:
It seems you totally ignored the issue and drifted off course just to launch another smear campaign. Yeah, I'm pretty much not surprised.
I think I made it rather apparent that I'm arguing that people CHOOSE to go about using their bodies in an unhealthy, wrong, and particularly dangerous manner. Of course me main qualms with same sex marriage arise because it is an abomination, but because I've actually been focusing on the latter line of reasoning moreso, allow me to get a bit more in depth.
I don't belive we choose to be anything. It all just happens due to a conglomeration of random events that shape us. Those same events lead us to have attractions to our own sex, small boys/girls, to kill people because it SEEMS right, cannibalize, etc.. I don't NECESSARILY think that people CHOOSED to be the way they are (I believe that a great deal of people choose, but they're beside the point because of their particular statistic). I do, however, believe that people CHOOSE to do and not do what they percieve as faulty actions. Whether it FELT natural or not would make no difference in this case. It is in this right that I see gay people CHOOSING to be gay. To reiterate: Yes, I am comparing homosexuality to the numerous existing fetishes and psychological disorders that exist. No different than my depression or that lady who lives across the street from me who's into bondage.....
It may sound like I'm being very strict, but it is indeed possible to avoid or (especially in this case) overcome being gay. I see it no differently than me forcing myself to not touch myself. All of you who don't share my opinion may consider this repression of emotion, sexual energy, whatever! But consider the following:
You've actually stumbled onto a corellation here Whomod. We choose to do right or wrong. That's a given......
Now, we know that being straight is the only natural sexual establishment. And we also know that having homosexual sex is the wrong way to go about: A) Stimulating nerves and Reproduction.
We also know that promoting hate is wrong and spreading peace right. Hate is unhealthy in every sense of the word, it's unhealthy even in the ways I described up top.
So lets break it down:
Hate is wrong and causes damage, therefore, we must CHOOSE to stay away from it.
Homosexuality is wrong and causes damage, therefore, we must CHOOSE to stay away from it (just like you want us to CHOOSE to stay away from a life of discriminating and persecuting).
Hey look at that! I found a connection between societal etiquette and religious/moral (Catholic in my case) constraint.
See where your wrong in the homosexual/fetish comparison it doesn't take into account love. You and others that do this never get past the sexual act. Being in a 14 plus year monogomous relationship, I can tell you it's not lust but love that has kept the boyfriend & I together. Any straight or gay couple thats been together for any length of time will tell you that. You say "We know" but actually I don't think you do. Now I could have made different choices ranging between celibacy & promiscuity but no matter what, my attraction for the same sex would still be there.
Fair play!
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