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anybody else see lebron kick some ass, and the spurs making ron artest their bitch?
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MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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34 POINTS. THAT'S A DISGRACE. 122-88. SO MUCH FOR RON STARTEST
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Quote:
big_pimp_tim said:
34 POINTS. THAT'S A DISGRACE. 122-88. SO MUCH FOR RON STARTEST
Don't count your eggs before they've hatched. There's a reason it's a seven games series. I'm not saying Sacramento will upset, but one game does not a series make.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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no it doesn't. but i am talking about the spurs, and many people doubted them in this series. it wasn't the series, yet it was a huge statement to the kings, the league the writers and anyone foolish to already be looking for the champs to be upsety. bumped, bruised, and sore, they are still a team that on any day can beat the pants off any elite team. the kings were shown today to be good, but on a different level.
not that i doubt they can take one, maybe even 2. but a series, no.
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We'll see what happens. I thought the Spurs were ripe for an upset, but after a game like that, I wonder if the Kings are even in the same league.
Still, after an embarrassing no-show like that, the Kings could come out a completely different team in game 2. Conventional wisdom says the Spurs will have to take the game early, because the Kings will be fired up.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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you weren't the only one.
the psurs are a team to turn it on at the end of the half's. their steadiness more often than not does it. it's what allows them to ride other teams heat, and their own cold shooting. and pop (like r.c.) is considered the rop of the top in couching because he will have a gameplan to counter the expected intensity of the kings
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I did find it somewhat amusing that the defending champions set a franchise record for wins and yet only 3 of the 16 ESPN "experts" picked them to win it all.
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which is ridicolous. one man can change a team, and ron startest did. but, change a lottery team to a playoff team is one thing, from lottery to champs, is another.
but that said, unless all the other 13 picked detroit, some of them are dreaming. it's a 2 team race.
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Quote:
big_pimp_tim said:
but that said, unless all the other 13 picked detroit, some of them are dreaming. it's a 2 team race.
The others all picked Detroit.
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i refuse to watch the NBA playoffs every since baseball went on strike before the playoffs.
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Baseball players going on strike right before the playoffs, that was disgusting. I don't think anyone can get any lower than that. Not even Mahon.
BPT, I don't think the NBA playoffs are a two team race. I think there are a few teams that could meet in the finals. The Spurs and Pistons are the heavy the favorites, but that's why I love the playoffs.
However, I don't like the NBA brackets. That's crap.
I like the NHL reseeding after each round, where the best regular season team plays the worst remaining team in each round. That makes an upset like Anaheim or Calgary all the more special. That also actually rewards a team for doing well in the regular season, and gives fans a better chance of seeing the best Conference Finals possible. As it stands, the Spurs could play the Mavs in the second round. That's crap. That should be a Conference Final.
Edit: Well, if the top four seeds all survive, it wouldn't be, it would be a second round, but how often do the top four seeds all survive?
Last edited by PenWing; 2006-04-23 3:58 PM.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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true, it is a waste of time when the clippers have homecourt at 6 over the 3 seeded nuggets. what is the point of the seeding system at all if that is going to be the case?to reward a division champ, ok, but did they truly deserve it? being the best amongst chumps means nothing. better to be second to the spurs than the best of the sonics, jazz, blazers.
and it is pretty much a 2 team race. sure there are some possibilities, but they aren't lookin like likely ones. mavs, maybe. heat, nets, maybe. but not likely.
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ron artest suspended for game 2 spurs-kings
why, cause he's a bitch and threw one too many cheap shot elbows and forearms.
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Rip Hamalton, probably out in the Eastern/NBA Finals. Why? Because his fucktard coach didn't sit him after he first hurt his ankle, allowing him to hurt it again a short while later. And he'll probably come back too soon, meaning it will not heal properly, meaning he'll be limping should the Pistons make it that far, and become a liability when they need him most. Is there any wonder why Saunders could not win in Minnesota?
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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there goes their bread and butter double screen
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Yup. Too bad Saunders won't play Delfino, the only guy who could shut down Wade in the regular season. Complete fucktard.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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it's ok, double screen was only thing bothering the spurs too much, minus that detroit will just clog the middle on d, and hope to stop the machine that is san antonio
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Assuming, of course, that both teams make it to the finals.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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it is a safe and fair assumption
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Quote:
big_pimp_tim said:
it is a safe and fair assumption
 
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well, who else, besides the spurs who have rolled thru the past few years pretty much, and the pistons who try to buy championships. 
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they just gotta win that first playoff game and get over the huhmp and then they can roll all the way to round 2!!!!!
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Rip Hamalton, probably out in the Eastern/NBA Finals. Why? Because his fucktard coach didn't sit him after he first hurt his ankle, allowing him to hurt it again a short while later. And he'll probably come back too soon, meaning it will not heal properly, meaning he'll be limping should the Pistons make it that far, and become a liability when they need him most. Is there any wonder why Saunders could not win in Minnesota?
I'm going to let you in on a little secret, something you might not realize living in Detroit and watching a team that's gone nearly three years with the exact same lineup:
Players get hurt sometimes.
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after a year with no real problems, but no real bench support, it was bound to happen
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Quote:
big_pimp_tim said:
after a year with no real problems, but no real bench support, it was bound to happen
Our teams have had more injuries this year than the Pistons have had this millenium. Blaming the injury on the coach is just silly.
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very true. lack of good bench support, and over using your starting 5 is not a new problem to this team. to blame a new couch for a reacurring problem is not the best answer
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spurs go up 2-0 over kings.
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spurs go up 2-0 over kings.
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I don't know if anyone has the stat on who has the most near triple-doubles while failing to record at least 10 points, but Jason Kidd would have to be high on that list.
The Kings played the game of their lives and still lost.
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well, ron artest could have made a difference, but the difference wasn't the spurs, or kings, it was pop. that play call was awesome, and credit to the spurs to executing it to a T. every player was watching manu while barry was settin up camp in the corner.
and just because i am in a good moo, anyone recall who was the last player to break the 70 point barriar prior to kobe. hint, it is also the last player to record the almosy unheard of quadruple double.
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Apparently, Steve Nash will be announced as MVP sometime in the next few weeks. I thought either he or Billups would win, simply because sportswriters are dopes.
I'm sure the case made was that he was better this year than he was last year. Now, that's true, but since he didn't deserve the MVP last year, either, it's a pretty flawed argument.
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well last year less so than this year, but then who would you suggest. nach without joe johnson and amare manages a similair record. kobe? no, lebron, maybe in a few years. duncan....as much as i would love to say yes he has manu and tony and an injury. billups, maybe, but he has hamilton and the d to thank for the record as much as himself.
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Quote:
big_pimp_tim said:
well last year less so than this year, but then who would you suggest.
LeBron would have received my vote, but there are so many others that were more deserving. Dirk, Kobe, Wade, and Brand being the most obvious examples. Then, to a lesser extent, Arenas, Billups, and even guys on losing teams like Garnett, Iverson and Pierce. They were all better than Nash this year, and the first four by a large enough margin to render the typical "it's most valuable, not best" response moot.
Actually, much like last year with Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash wasn't even the best player on his own team. Shawn Marion was.
Not to dis on Steve, though. It's not his fault. He had a great year and he's a great player.
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no, syeve made marion good. without nash, marion would be just a good player on a half decent maybe make the playoff maybe not team. dirk didn't get it because while he was deserving of a thought, avery made the dig difference in d. dallas and defense. lebron was probably a close second, but he didn't carry his team as far as nash did. again, arenas was best on a mid level team, and as for the other losers, mvp isn't best layer on a losing team. or even best player period. it's the person that did the most for his team. kg did nothing to drag his team anywhere, billups was just a spoke in a wagon wheel. only real discussion can be made for kobe, lebron, dirk and nash. and nash made the most out of what was a bad situation. dirk was expected to have a better team, and did. lebrom was expected to improve, and make playoffs. kobe has done exactly has predicted, great season on a mediocre team. nash is the only one that took a dire outlook and came out shining, suns in tow.
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Rip Hamalton, probably out in the Eastern/NBA Finals.
Strange, I seem to see an "R. Hamilton" in the Detroit box score tonight. Does he have a brother?
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big_pimp_tim said:
no, syeve made marion good. without nash, marion would be just a good player on a half decent maybe make the playoff maybe not team.
Marion has been a terrific player for years(much better than "just good"), long before Nash returned to Phoenix.
This argument is one very similar to the one used against Amare Stoudemire last year. Most seem to accept that Steve Nash makes these guys great, without really considering that, perhaps, these guys also make him great.
Marion is an NBA all-defense teamer and terrific rebounder, despite playing out of position with the Suns. He shoots a very high percentage from the field(someone's gotta make 'em for Nash to get those assists). He scores over 20 a game yet rarely turns the ball over. He ranked ahead of Nash in PER this year, and that doesn't take into account his defensive ability, which is light years ahead of Nash's.
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dirk didn't get it because while he was deserving of a thought, avery made the dig difference in d.
How do you figure that? Avery inherited the second winningest franchise of the past half-decade, a team that won 60 games in 2003 and made it to the conference finals that year.
Even if the change in coaching philosophy did help the team tremendously, how does that hurt Dirk?
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lebron was probably a close second, but he didn't carry his team as far as nash did.
Well...LeBron accounted for a larger percentage of the team's offense, has a giant advantage in terms of PER, player wins and win shares, was statistically the most versatile player in the NBA, and outplayed Nash when the two went head to head. In other words, LeBron was more efficient and more productive.
Let's put it this way: even if you believe what no metric in the universe supports -that Nash was as good on a per minute basis as LeBron James- LeBron played more than half a quarter per game(7 minutes) than Nash. He was on the court 20% more!
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mvp isn't best layer on a losing team. or even best player period. it's the person that did the most for his team.
How can Nash have done the most for his team if he wasn't even the best player on it?
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dirk was expected to have a better team, and did.
Expected by whom?
Check out ESPN's predictions from the pre-season. Of the 12 experts, only two picked them to finish second in the division, and none picked them to finish better than they did the previous year.
Brendan McGovern at probasketball.com projected them to finish 47-35, 11 games below where they were in 2005.
Sports Illustrated picked them to finish fifth in the conference.
I'm searching for anyone anywhere on the net who thought at the start of the season that the Mavericks were a 60-win team. I didn't think they were. I thought they'd be about as good as they were last year though, probably a little worse.
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lebrom was expected to improve, and make playoffs. kobe has done exactly has predicted, great season on a mediocre team. nash is the only one that took a dire outlook and came out shining, suns in tow.
"Biggest surprise" doesn't equate "most valuable". It's pretty ridiculous to argue that, because LeBron didn't exceed expectations, he's less valuable than someone who did. He was expected to be MVP-caliber, and he was. Shouldn't that be a point of merit, rather than a point of detraction?
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My understanding is that a player can't be MVP if his team doesn't make the playoffs. Well, a player could be MVP, but sports writers probably won't vote for him.
As for Nash, I was flipping to the Nash vs. Kobe game last night, and it looked to me like either one could be the MVP. I don't know how they do it, but they both dominate the game. This time Kobe came out on top, but next time, who knows?
Hamilton played, and I knew he would. Yes, Ani, injuries do happen, but it's not logical to play through an injury if the player isn't needed in that game, or maybe even the series. Rip played 32 minutes. That's a lot to play on a bad ankle. If the Pistons can wrap this series up in two more games, maybe the injury won't catch up to him down the stretch (the Eastern and/or NBA Finals). The way Prince and Sheed are being over played right now, it looks like Saunders wants to do whatever he can to sweep this series. However, if the Bucks win a game or two, and this is the playoffs, and they are going to Milwaukee, over playing the starters like this will bite the Pistons in the ass.
But everyone here already knows that.
The Spurs look good. Sacramento came close, and if Artest wouldn't be a head case, they just might have evened the series. But now the Spurs are in good position. If they realize just how close that game was at the end, they'll school the Kings agan in game three. However, again, it's the playoffs, and they are going into the other team's building. While I don't think this series will get evened up, it's not out of the question if the Kings have the discipline to do what needs to be done.
And that shot by Barry? That was simply amazing. Just a great play by a great team.
I'm not a big basketball fan, but some of these games have been fun to keep an eye on in the waning minutes. I hope this keeps up.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
Marion has been a terrific player for years(much better than "just good"), long before Nash returned to Phoenix.
This argument is one very similar to the one used against Amare Stoudemire last year. Most seem to accept that Steve Nash makes these guys great, without really considering that, perhaps, these guys also make him great.
he has been a good player. but even last year while cinsidered an important player, without amre(who is a great player, just matured when nash got there. would have happened, just not as fast) and joe and nash, again, marion would be on a sinking ship. nash is the key to the team, he is the one that makes them all better, as well as the best player on the team. for all his stats, you have again, nash to thank. though the d, is all marion, nash's offense capabilities open up marion for easy buckets, nash's passes, and drives, pick n rolls, all that boils down to a point gaurd that creates. say what you want, but it will fall on deaf ears. a point gaurd creates, and the best point guard will create the most opportunitys, as nash as done, and marion, to his credit, has taken full advantage as he should.
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How do you figure that? Avery inherited the second winningest franchise of the past half-decade, a team that won 60 games in 2003 and made it to the conference finals that year.
Even if the change in coaching philosophy did help the team tremendously, how does that hurt Dirk?
2nd? behind san antonio and detroit? how does it hurt dirk is in the fact that in an offense only team, he was a star, no one played to sides of the court. now dirk, while brilliant on offense has shown what he lacks on d. they as a whole have come a long way, but he is not near as dominant on both sides the court as most mvp canidates.
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Well...LeBron accounted for a larger percentage of the team's offense, has a giant advantage in terms of PER, player wins and win shares, was statistically the most versatile player in the NBA, and outplayed Nash when the two went head to head. In other words, LeBron was more effecient and more productive.
Let's put it this way: even if you believe what no metric in the universe supports -that Nash was as good on a per minute basis as LeBron James- LeBron played more than half a quarter per game(7 minutes) than Nash. He was on the court 20% more!
having a better year doesn't equate to mvp as we both know. and again, lebron is slowly dragging his team along while nash took his team on a team that was significantly less powered than the year before right back to where they were last year. aegu for marion, but he was not as good as joe, or amare were last year, without them he has shined, but as creator, and leader, nash gets the credit.
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How can Nash have done the most for his team if he wasn't even the best player on it?
who was? marion? your still beating that dead horse, no way is marion the better player. nash creates, nash opens up, nash is the one behind and in control of most of phoenix's plays and success. sure, he may not score the most, but who is the one passin the rock for that sweet jumper? who is the one setting up pick n rolls, no looks, and the like? marion? no, you can replace marion with any of a dozen of players and get the same result, but the same could not be said for nash.
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Expected by whom?
who didn't? who didn't expect essentialy the same exact team but with a more defensive minded coach to do better. i never said better than san antonio, or detroit, but they were on their heels until the very end of the year. including i think 2 of 4 with sa, and 1 of 2 with detroit. they made their case as a better team, and as we know, playoffs are won with defense. they are expected to have their best chance at the spurs this year. why? because they showed a better team this year all season long.
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"Biggest surprise" doesn't equate "most valuable". It's pretty ridiculous to argue that, because LeBron didn't exceed expectations, he's less valuable than someone who did. He was expected to be MVP-caliber, and he was. Shouldn't that be a point of merit, rather than a point of detraction?
actually, you should know suprise means a lot in the voters minds. you take last year mvp + did just as much with less team = excellent candidate to repeat.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
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big_pimp_tim said:
nash is the key to the team, he is the one that makes them all better, as well as the best player on the team. for all his stats, you have again, nash to thank. though the d, is all marion, nash's offense capabilities open up marion for easy buckets, nash's passes, and drives, pick n rolls, all that boils down to a point gaurd that creates.
But without a player of Marion's skillset to finish, all those plays Nash "created" wouldn't amount to anything. Without Marion's scoring, teams would simply double Nash and force someone else to beat them. If Nash so vital to his team that everyone else was nothing more than a puppet being pulled at the strings, opposing defenses would just force the ball out of his hands. Also, Nash has no role in Marion's rebounding and(as you note)outstanding defense.
One aspect of Nash's game that doesn't receive a lot of attention is the fact that he turns the ball over a lot, even for someone who controls the ball as much as he does. Of the 40 point guards who qualified(those that played 2000 minutes or 70 games), Nash finished 30th in turnover ratio. Not the number of turnovers per game, but the percentage of his possessions that resulted in a turnover. Even guys like Allen Iversion and Stephon Marbury, generally considered to be ball-hogs and turnover-machines, finished well ahead of him.
For a comparison, of the 51 power forwards who qualified, Marion finished fourth in turnover ratio.
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2nd? behind san antonio and detroit?
Dallas has won more games the last half decade than any team other than San Antonio. More than Detroit. Even more than the Lakers.
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how does it hurt dirk is in the fact that in an offense only team, he was a star, no one played to sides of the court. now dirk, while brilliant on offense has shown what he lacks on d. they as a whole have come a long way, but he is not near as dominant on both sides the court as most mvp canidates.
That completely contradicts your argument in favor of Steve Nash.
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having a better year doesn't equate to mvp as we both know. and again, lebron is slowly dragging his team along while nash took his team on a team that was significantly less powered than the year before right back to where they were last year.
I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that LeBron is "slowly dragging his team along".
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who was? marion? your still beating that dead horse, no way is marion the better player.
Heh, well, if I'm beating a dead horse, it's because you seem to keep trying to give it life.
The argument for Marion against Nash is kind of similar to the one with LeBron against Nash(only, to a lesser extent). Marion scores more, rebounds more, is a vastly superior defensive player, turns the ball over less, is more efficient, more versatile, and plays significantly more minutes.
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marion? no, you can replace marion with any of a dozen of players and get the same result, but the same could not be said for nash.
That's a nice statement, but you have nothing supporting it, and certainly no way of proving it. Statistically, Marion was one of the 10 best players in basketball last year and, as he's arguably the most underrated player in the game, has also been one of the 15-20 best since 2001, his second year in the league. Although he had slightly down years in '02 and '04, he's ranked in the top 6 in player wins in '01, '03, '05 and now '06 as well. It is worth noting that, since he entered the league in 2000, Marion has ranked ahead of Nash in player wins and win shares every single season, including this season, and last. Most of those years, Nash was the more efficient player, just not the more productive one. This year, as I already said, he was neither.
So, flashy play aside, the evidence seems to suggest that Nash is the more replacable player, not Marion.
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who didn't? who didn't expect essentialy the same exact team but with a more defensive minded coach to do better.
I just gave you a bunch of examples of who didn't.
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actually, you should know suprise means a lot in the voters minds. you take last year mvp + did just as much with less team = excellent candidate to repeat.
Yes, I already said in my first post:
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Animalman said:
I thought either [Nash] or Billups would win, simply because sportswriters are dopes.
However, I wasn't arguing who should have won based on the criteria of idiot sportswriters.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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