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#358177 2004-09-23 10:53 PM
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Amazingly, NONE of these fuckers are coming even close to where I live.

Unfortunately, Charley and Francis hit Orlando pretty hard, and Orlando's where I went to school. I still have friends and even family in that area, and now Jeanne's heading their way.



"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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e-gads!


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I, of course, blame the Germans.

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I thought they were all coming from Cuba?


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:

Darknight613 said:
Amazingly, NONE of these fuckers are coming even close to where I live.

Unfortunately, Charley and Francis hit Orlando pretty hard, and Orlando's where I went to school. I still have friends and even family in that area, and now Jeanne's heading their way.






Are you kidding me? Had my friend and I not gone to Disney on Wed, we would have been there when Charley hit. I'm so glad everyone's schedules worked out the way they did. Not only for that day, but for my vacation in general. Had I not gone that week, I might have been there for Francis, because I was looking at a general time frame of either last month or this month for the vacation. It wasn't until I talked to my friend and found out when she'd be moving to LA that I scheduled and boooked the vacation.


It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Meanwhile I'm headed for Cali with a stop over in Denver. Maybe an earthquake will hit and make things fair.


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LOL If it makes anyoen feel any better, we never got a summer here. It wasn't until this month that we actually had temps in the 80s.


It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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So what exactly did Florida do to piss of the hurricanes so much?


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They stopped offering child sacrifices.

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It's the communists, look at the evidence.

Coming up from Cuba. One was even called Ivan.

And you thought the KGB was no more!

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Quote:

Pariah said:
They stopped offering child sacrifices.



Silly Pariah, we never stopped.

I, of course, blame the electronic voting machines.

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Oh.......You must have botched the ceremonies then.

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Look at Nov. 2000. We can botch ANYTHING!

Florida, the "Can't Even Poke A Hole In A Punchcard" State.

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Hehe! Obviously I don't agree, but the way you said that was pretty damn funny.

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I just think it's truly an act of God.

I know that certainly a few of these people prayed for God to help them overcome disenfranchisement.



I saw this MTV documentary put together by Drew Barrymore, last night. It was sophmoric and amateurish but she really hit a resonant chord when she mentioned to Selma to Montgomery march. I literally wept and I could more clearly and powerfully see where some people take the 2000 debacle seriously.

Hey, if you can beleive God can smite 2 cities because of their gay district then why not Florida.

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Ah yes, just as Florida had become America's wang, it has now become the Old Testament's Job.

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Quote:

whomod said:
I just think it's truly an act of God.

I know that certainly a few ...people prayed for God to help them overcome disenfranchisement.




I didn’t realize that the ountries of Grenada, Jamaica, Haiti, Venezuela, the Dominican Republic and Tobago all voted Republican.

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Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

whomod said:
I just think it's truly an act of God.

I know that certainly a few ...people prayed for God to help them overcome disenfranchisement.




I didn’t realize that the ountries of Grenada, Jamaica, Haiti, Venezuela, the Dominican Republic and Tobago all voted Republican.




Or, i didn't realize all of Sodom and Gamorrah was gay.

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Quote:

whomod said:
Hey, if you can beleive God can smite 2 cities because of their gay district then why not Florida.




You are the fucking master of understatement, do you know that? Maybe you forgot the BI-RAPE details. He wasn't punishing them mainly because they were gay, it's because they were being total assholes to eachother in the process of their gayness.

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Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

whomod said:
Hey, if you can beleive God can smite 2 cities because of their gay district then why not Florida.




You are the fucking master of understatement, do you know that? Maybe you forgot the BI-RAPE details. He wasn't punishing them mainly because they were gay, it's because they were being total assholes to eachother in the process of their gayness.




I remember back when they actually found the ruins of Sodom or Gahmorrah (can't recall which one exactly), they came across childrens nurseries and playgrounds and bedrooms.

G-man's point was that the entire Carribean wasn't at fault for the disenfranchisment in Florida and my point is that in the Old Testament, to God, the ends justified the means. And innocents died (or were collateral damage if you will) to teach 'wicked people' hard lessons. I'm not debating the minutae specifics of why those cities were destroyed.


And of course the initial point that this too is 'God's will'.

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Quote:

I'm not debating the minutae specifics of why those cities were destroyed.




You really coulda fooled me. The fact that you briefly recited a tale about the wrath of God while using "gay" in the same sentence (out of pretext) tells me otherwise. If the people who offended God weren't noted as gay(rapists), you wouldn't have even mentioned the penomenon of Soddom and Gamorrah.

All you're doing is trying to bad mouth Christians (Jews in the process) and Christian-Conservatives by over-dramatizing the destruction of those two cities. How you can even begin to find them comparable to Florida in rites of sin is a huge fucking mystery to me.

Quote:

I just think it's truly an act of God.

I know that certainly a few of these people prayed for God to help them overcome disenfranchisement.

I saw this MTV documentary put together by Drew Barrymore, last night. It was sophmoric and amateurish but she really hit a resonant chord when she mentioned to Selma to Montgomery march. I literally wept and I could more clearly and powerfully see where some people take the 2000 debacle seriously.

Hey, if you can beleive God can smite 2 cities because of their gay district then why not Florida.






Rolling my eyes may be becoming a habit (as Animalman has pointed out), but I'm rollin em' anyway, cuz' that's what this quote deserves.

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Quote:

whomod said:
And of course the initial point that this too is 'God's will'.




Life is God's will. You might as well get on your high horse right now and say how God is a mass muderer for letting people like Charles Manson exist and allowing towns to flood. It's kind of apparent that you want to.

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I still can't get a grasp of what it is Whomod's trying to say, in his lack of lucid clarity.

Whomod, from his prior posts to other topics, clearly has a contempt for the notion that God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah (for their homosexuality and other evil practices, as is clearly denoted in Genesis, as well as other verses I already detailed in the Canada allows same-sex marriage topic).
Whomod made many of the statements I'm thinking of in his mocking posts to the Canada allows same-sex marriage topic I just mentioned.

Whomod voices two contradictory notions:
Whomod seems to have utter contempt for Christianity and any scriptural condemnation of immorality.
While simultaneously condemning Florida and the Carribean nations as being "punished" by an "act of God".

Is this sarcasm from Whomod?

Is this typical sneering contempt from Whomod for those who don't share his beliefs and political views (whatever the hell those confused messes of contradictions are) ?

Or is he sincerely saying that this is truly an act of God, and punishment for something:
Homosexuality?

Political conservatism?

Racism toward blacks over 40 years ago, as his "Salma to Montgomery" remark seems to indicate?



I really don't give a damn what Whomod is trying to say. I'm just pointing out the head-in-ass nature of his argument.

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It's pretty obvious what whomod is TRYING to say.

There is a map making the rounds of the leftie sites on the internet (eg, bartcop, Democratic Underground, etc) that shows the path of at least some of these hurricanes going through the so-called "red" counties that voted for Bush in the 2000 election. This map, the lefties claim (admittedly as a probable joke), is "proof" that God is pissed off at those places for voting Republican (which is, of course, completely illogical, even as a joke, when you consider all the foreign countries also hit by these hurricanes).

What's interesting about all this is that they are, in essence, jokingly declaring that people deserved to die and/or have their homes and property destroyed for having the termerity to vote for the "hated" George W. Bush.

When faced with the fact that these "enlightened" and "pacifistic" liberals are chortling over death and destruction, they are falling back on the defense of "uh, some bible thumbers think Sodom and Gommorah was a good thing," as if one bit of asshole behavior somehow excuses their asshole behavior.

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Quote:

G-man said:
It's pretty obvious what whomod is TRYING to say.
.
There is a map making the rounds of the leftie sites on the internet (eg, bartcop, Democratic Underground, etc) that shows the path of at least some of these hurricanes going through the so-called "red" counties that voted for Bush in the 2000 election. This map, the lefties claim (admittedly as a probable joke), is "proof" that God is pissed off at those places for voting Republican (which is, of course, completely illogical, even as a joke, when you consider all the foreign countries also hit by these hurricanes).
.
What's interesting about all this is that they are, in essence, jokingly declaring that people deserved to die and/or have their homes and property destroyed for having the termerity to vote for the "hated" George W. Bush.
.
When faced with the fact that these "enlightened" and "pacifistic" liberals are chortling over death and destruction, they are falling back on the defense of "uh, some bible thumbers think Sodom and Gommorah was a good thing," as if one bit of asshole behavior somehow excuses their asshole behavior.






Well, thanks, G-Man. That explains a lot.

So "Bushie/fundie" belief that natural disasters are fulfillment of Biblical end-time prophesy, and are punishment for society ignoring Biblically stated condemnations of homosexuality, or indulging in broader immorality, is just fundamentalist misinterpretation to rationalize their own beliefs.

Unless, of course, it's liberals gleefully celebrating the misfortune of conservatives. In which case a hurricane is the wrath of God punishing conservatives because they voted for Bush.
Of course! It's so clear now !


I still don't understand the "Salma to Montgomery" reference, though.

But I'm sure it's a similarly stupid and contra-Biblical rationalization.


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    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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Quote:

Dave the Wonder Boy said:

Unless, of course, it's liberals gleefully celebrating the misfortune of conservatives. In which case a hurricane is the wrath of God punishing conservatives because they voted for Bush.
Of course! It's so clear now !


I still don't understand the "Salma to Montgomery" reference, though.

But I'm sure it's a similarly stupid and contra-Biblical rationalization.




I see you're busy misinterpreting everything I said, as per usual.

I was making a comment on disenfranchisment and how all those Civil rights gains won in blood, indignity and PRAYER should not have been in vain, and that perhaps God is interceding/meting out judgement. Nowhere did I say that this is God's punishment for anyone fucking voting for Bush, nitwit(s)!

Still, i'd be interested in knowing the voting demographic of trailer home residents in Fla. and if perhaps they're moving away to higher RED state ground now that hurricanes are a weekly event there. Makes more room for the Americanization/De-Confederazation of the south I say (well at least Fla. it'll be a blue state soon enough ). Not to mention, room for houses with foundations sturdier than a few cinder blocks.

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Quote:

whomod said:


I see you're busy misinterpreting everything I said, as per usual.




Try not to blame others for your own inability to adequately articulate your own thoughts.

Quote:

whomod said:

I was making a comment on disenfranchisment and how all those Civil rights gains won in blood,...




"In blood". Yes, there was considerable violence involved in the 60's. And not just white on black. But rioting of blacks against whites as well. And over several decades since the 60's, sporadically, in a few major cities.
Again, you've failed to make clear, beyond veiled innuendo, precisely how "civil rights gains" have been "in vain". Because except in the realm of bitter and distorted charicatures, they haven't been lost.

I've also read that statistically, racially motivated black violence toward whites occurs more often than the reverse.

So take your sanctimonious clingings to the past spectre of racism (a brand of Democrat/liberal McCarthyism that attempts to keep minorities voting for Democrats, a political party who in truth does little if anything to warrant the loyalty of minority voters, beyond condescending to minorities as "victims" who need to be protected, instead of being treated as equals) and shove them up your lying ass.

Quote:

whomod said:

...indignity and PRAYER should not have been in vain, and that perhaps God is interceding/meting out judgement. Nowhere did I say that this is God's punishment for anyone fucking voting for Bush, nitwit(s)!




Again, you blame me for your own lack of clarity.
A clear danger for someone who engages in as much deceitful innuendo as you do.

Quote:

whomod said:


Still, i'd be interested in knowing the voting demographic of trailer home residents in Fla. and if perhaps they're moving away to higher RED state ground now that hurricanes are a weekly event there. Makes more room for the Americanization/De-Confederazation of the south I say (well at least Fla. it'll be a blue state soon enough ). Not to mention, room for houses with foundations sturdier than a few cinder blocks.




Across several topics, you have a tendency to stereotype whites, particularly WASP-type conservatives who disagree with you.
In fact I've seen ample evidence that you have a racist hostility toward whites, even as you bemoan alleged white racism toward minorities.

I'm neither a Confederate nor one who lives in a trailer.

As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a "Confederate" in South Florida. It's more like a southern suburb of New York City, we have so much immigration from New York. As well as from Cuba, Brazil, Ecuador, Mexico, Colombia, Haiti, Jamaica...

As usual, you rant confidently, with bitter stereotypes, about something you know nothing about. You've clearly not visited South Florida.


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    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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I hate to interrupt you two (actually, I don't), but I have an interesting point for whomod regarding Sodom and Gommorah - particularly relating to his point that innocents were cut down along with the guilty.

In the Bible, G-d tells Abraham that he plans to destory the cities of Sodom and Gommorah (where Abraham's nephew lives.) Abraham pleads with G-d, asking him "would you smite the innocent with the guilty?" (one of my favorite lines in the Bible.) He asks G-d if he would spare the cities if there were 50 good people in them. G-d says yes (but there aren't.) Abraham keeps pleading, and G-d says "even if there were only 10 innocent people in Sodom and Gomorrah, I'd spare the city." At that, Abraham calls it a day. The only innocent people are Lot (Abraham's nephew) and his family, and G-d sends angels to get them out of there.

So in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, G-d did not strike down the innocent with the guilty.

(It's because of that line in the Bible that I have no tolerance for collateral damage, or killing or imprisoning innocent people in the name of punishing the guilty.)


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this thread is silly .

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Quote:

Hey, if you can beleive God can smite 2 cities because of their gay district then why not Florida.




Are you honestly saying that God destryed Sodom and Ghamora, because they had "gay districts"? I would be interested on getting a copy of your Bible.

And DK, I think there are better passages for teh discussion of collateral damage and war time detainees.


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Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:

Hey, if you can beleive God can smite 2 cities because of their gay district then why not Florida.




Are you honestly saying that God destryed Sodom and Ghamora, because they had "gay districts"? I would be interested on getting a copy of your Bible.

And DK, I think there are better passages for teh discussion of collateral damage and war time detainees.




Well, the Torah devotes entire chapters to the rules of war and how to treat captives, and numerous commentators have interpretations for all of those rules. Many of the rules would probably not apply to the Iraq war, since they were meant to apply only for when the Jews were in control of Israel, and attacking hostile cities within Israel. So if anyone is wondering how the Torah would rule on the Iraq war, I don't know.

However, there is no ambiguity about the rule that prisoners are not to be mistreated. Prisoner abuse is forbidden - end of story.

The "will you smite the innocent with the guilty" line is meaningful to me on a personal level. I realize it's not always possible, but it's a rule that should be implemented whenever it is possible.

Last edited by Darknight613; 2004-09-27 9:08 PM.

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Quote:

Dave the Wonder Boy said:
...for the notion that God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah (for their homosexuality and other evil practices, as is clearly denoted in Genesis



very few things are clearly denoted in the Bible, and Sodom and Gommorah is hardly a clear glass argument .

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Well, here's the actual text regarding Sodom and Gomorrah (I started it off right after Abraham's visitors announce Sarah will conceive Isaac).

http://learn.jtsa.edu/topics/parashah/jpstext/vayera.shtml

Quote:

17 Now the Lord had said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, 18 since Abraham is to become a great and populous nation and all the nations of the earth are to bless themselves by him? 19 For I have singled him out, that he may instruct his children and his posterity to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is just and right, in order that the Lord may bring about for Abraham what He has promised him." 20 Then the Lord said, "The outrage of Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin so grave! 21 I will go down to see whether they have acted altogether according to the outcry that has reached Me; if not, I will take note."

22 The men (DK - Abraham's visitors) went on from there to Sodom, while Abraham remained standing before the Lord. 23 Abraham came forward and said, "Will You sweep away the innocent along with the guilty? 24 What if there should be fifty innocent within the city; will You then wipe out the place and not forgive it for the sake of the innocent fifty who are in it? 25 Far be it from You to do such a thing, to bring death upon the innocent as well as the guilty, so that innocent and guilty fare alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?" 26 And the Lord answered, "If I find within the city of Sodom fifty innocent ones, I will forgive the whole place for their sake." 27 Abraham spoke up, saying, "Here I venture to speak to my Lord, I who am but dust and ashes: 28 What if the fifty innocent should lack five? Will You destroy the whole city for want of the five?" And He answered, "I will not destroy if I find forty-five there." 29 But he spoke to Him again, and said, "What if forty should be found there?" And He answered, "I will not do it, for the sake of the forty." 30 And he said, "Let not my Lord be angry if I go on: What if thirty should be found there?" And He answered, "I will not do it if I find thirty there." 31 And he said, "I venture again to speak to my Lord: What if twenty should be found there?" And He answered, "I will not destroy, for the sake of the twenty." 32 And he said, "Let not my Lord be angry if I speak but this last time: What if ten should be found there?" And He answered, "I will not destroy, for the sake of the ten."

33 When the Lord had finished speaking to Abraham, He departed; and Abraham returned to his place.

Chapter 19
1 The two angels arrived in Sodom in the evening, as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to greet them and, bowing low with his face to the ground, 2 he said, "Please, my lords, turn aside to your servant's house to spend the night, and bathe your feet; then you may be on your way early." But they said, "No, we will spend the night in the square." 3 But he urged them strongly, so they turned his way and entered his house. He prepared a feast for them and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

4 They had not yet lain down, when the townspeople, the men of Sodom, young and old—all the people to the last man—gathered about the house. 5 And they shouted to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may be intimate with them." 6 So Lot went out to them to the entrance, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, "I beg you, my friends, do not commit such a wrong. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have not known a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you please; but do not do anything to these men, since they have come under the shelter of my roof." 9 But they said, "Stand back! The fellow," they said, "came here as an alien, and already he acts the ruler! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." And they pressed hard against the person of Lot, and moved forward to break the door. 10 But the men stretched out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. 11 And the people who were at the entrance of the house, young and old, they struck with blinding light, so that they were helpless to find the entrance.

12 Then the men said to Lot, "Whom else have you here? Sons-in-law, your sons and daughters, or anyone else that you have in the city—bring them out of the place. 13 For we are about to destroy this place; because the outcry against them before the Lord has become so great that the Lord has sent us to destroy it." 14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who had married his daughters, and said, "Up, get out of this place, for the Lord is about to destroy the city." But he seemed to his sons-in-law as one who jests.

15 As dawn broke, the angels urged Lot on, saying, "Up, take your wife and your two remaining daughters, lest you be swept away because of the iniquity of the city." 16 Still he delayed. So the men seized his hand, and the hands of his wife and his two daughters—in the Lord's mercy on him—and brought him out and left him outside the city. 17 When they had brought them outside, one said, "Flee for your life! Do not look behind you, nor stop anywhere in the Plain; flee to the hills, lest you be swept away." 18 But Lot said to them, "Oh no, my lord! 19 You have been so gracious to your servant, and have already shown me so much kindness in order to save my life; but I cannot flee to the hills, lest the disaster overtake me and I die. 20 Look, that town there is near enough to flee to; it is such a little place! Let me flee there—it is such a little place—and let my life be saved." 21 He replied, "Very well, I will grant you this favor too, and I will not annihilate the town of which you have spoken. 22 Hurry, flee there, for I cannot do anything until you arrive there." Hence the town came to be called Zoar.

23 As the sun rose upon the earth and Lot entered Zoar, 24 the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from the Lord out of heaven. 25 He annihilated those cities and the entire Plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities and the vegetation of the ground. 26 Lot's wife looked back, and she thereupon turned into a pillar of salt.

27 Next morning, Abraham hurried to the place where he had stood before the Lord, 28 and, looking down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and all the land of the Plain, he saw the smoke of the land rising like the smoke of a kiln.

29 Thus it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the Plain and annihilated the cities where Lot dwelt, God was mindful of Abraham and removed Lot from the midst of the upheaval.




So here's the Biblical text of what happens with Sodom and Gomorrah. The Talmud and Torah commentators elaborate and provide more details, but those will be difficult to track down.

Last edited by Darknight613; 2004-09-27 9:40 PM.

"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:

However, there is no ambiguity about the rule that prisoners are not to be mistreated. Prisoner abuse is forbidden - end of story.

The "will you smite the innocent with the guilty" line is meaningful to me on a personal level. I realize it's not always possible, but it's a rule that should be implemented whenever it is possible.




Agreed

Quote:

very few things are clearly denoted in the Bible,




Not-agreed. There is plenty that's unclear in the Bible, butto say very few things are clear is patently false.. There are very many things that are clear in the Scriptures. Most people just choose to ignore them. So be it.


Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma. " I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9 JLA brand RACK points = 514k
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Your death will make me king!
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I have some land in the Everglades I'd love to sell you .

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Wednesday said:
I have some land in the Everglades I'd love to sell you .




And what's that suposed to mean? I'm not saying that there's alot in the Bible that's plain and direct because someone told me that I'm saying it because I've acctually read it and found much of it to be pretty direct.


Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma. " I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9 JLA brand RACK points = 514k
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if you truly believe that your understanding of the Bible is the absolute truth and that most others simply choose to ignore that truth for whatever reason, then please sign on the dotted line.

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Back to the hurricanes, this time it was my sister who hit the jackpot. Her power went out for five minutes only. Mine was out about a day and a half.

I also heard on the radio that 31% are now considering moving out of Florida. They just may have a point. It's one thing being surrounded by women who are no more than hot pockets waiting for heat, but one hurricane after another I'm not sure I want do deal with. Although I've got until next hurricane season to change my mind. Who's with me?


There is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe your army comes, and maybe it’s too much for us, but it’s all on you. Because if we can’t protect the Earth, you can be damn well sure we’ll avenge it.

Hello?
Put Natasha on the phone.
Who is this?
This is her fucking son's father. Who is this?
This is her fucking son.
..........oh.......
Call back in 20 minutes. *click*

Boy, you could get lost in a sky like that. I wish I had those balloons again.

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Wednesday said:
if you truly believe that your understanding of the Bible is the absolute truth and that most others simply choose to ignore that truth for whatever reason, then please sign on the dotted line.




Dis you even read my post? Or do you simply not understand the difference between being streight forward and being true. I do believe that the Bible contains absolute truth, but that hasn't anything to do with my earlier comments. Getting a little reactionary lately?


Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma. " I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9 JLA brand RACK points = 514k
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