[ So a history of violence for the guy who shot the kid.
In other words two people with a history of violence had a run-in and, as a result, one is dead and the other may be arrested. Pretty typical and sad crime story all in all.
However, that would seem to be further indication that 'stand your ground' was irrelevant to the case. This kind of thing (two hotheads have a run in) has been a cause of violent crime since time immemorial
I may have missed it but Martin didn't have a police record or a record of snapping like Zimmerman. The one bit of trouble Martin did have with school didn't have anything to do with violence. It really doesn't seem fair using the word thug or saying he had a history of violence.
I also feel Stand Your Ground is relevant because that's what is keeping Zimmerman from being charged with manslaughter. The law existing or not probably wouldn't have prevented Martin's murder but it's going to protect Zimmerman.
Last edited by Matter-eater Man; 2012-03-319:50 PM.
I'd love to hear G-man's legal opinion on the significance of the "staand your ground" law.
My opinion is, it was still arguably self-defense for Zimmerman, with or without the law, and liberals and the media are making more of it, as leverage for their pre-existing desire to ban guns and any law favoring guns and self-protection.
This at least acknowledges that Travon Martin was, by his own father's account, an "average student" getting C's and not excelling. It also acknowledges --very briefly, no details-- that Martin was suspended several times, for graffitti, and for drugs. It selectively omits any of the thugged-up photos of Martin from his Facebook page, and mention of his assault of someone at school.
In which CNN again downplays and selectively omits the 911-caller "John", who corroborated the version Zimmerman gave to police, that Zimmerman was confronted by Martin, who initiated the fight, and that Martin was on top pounding on Zimmerman, until Zimmerman shot Martin. The article also selectively omits what police observed, grass stains, bloody nose and cuts to the back of Zimmerman's head, that corroberate his version.
All this selective omission makes me more sympathetic to Zimmerman's account, that the liberal media seems afraid to report because it contradicts the narrative they would like to present.
I also feel Stand Your Ground is relevant because that's what is keeping Zimmerman from being charged with manslaughter. The law existing or not probably wouldn't have prevented Martin's murder but it's going to protect Zimmerman.
Not sure why you need to be reminded here, but Trayvon was the one who attacked Zimmerman after he had decided to call it a day and go home.
What was the evidence of Martin being the one who attacked Zimmerman? Sure that's what Zimmerman says but we're not going to get Martin's side of the story because Zimmerman killed him.
I also feel Stand Your Ground is relevant because that's what is keeping Zimmerman from being charged with manslaughter. The law existing or not probably wouldn't have prevented Martin's murder but it's going to protect Zimmerman.
Not sure why you need to be reminded here, but Trayvon was the one who attacked Zimmerman after he had decided to call it a day and go home.
Exactly.
Initial liberal media reports tried to paint it differently, but even now they supress the fact that Zimmerman called 911, and when Martin began to run, when Zimmerman initally started to follow, the dispatcher at 911 said, "sir we don't need you to do that...", Zimmerman said OK and by his account walked back to his truck, at which point Trayvon Martin pursued Zimmerman and initiated the fight. And the 911 caller identified as "John" corroborates that, as does the physical evidence reported by police.
Here's a counterbalancing story that contrasts the liberal media's selective omission, and the overly sympathetic portrayal of Trayvon Martin:
What was the evidence of Martin being the one who attacked Zimmerman? Sure that's what Zimmerman says but we're not going to get Martin's side of the story because Zimmerman killed him.
911 calls and interviewed witnesses, as well as crime-scene evidence.
Which I linked above. That's the only side of the story CNN and other liberal media want to give full exposure to, as they selectively omit and minimize the evidence that supports Zimmerman's version.
An independent Florida state investigation is also under way.
Even as the Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, black politicians and liberal media toss kerosine on the fire and push for lynching Zimmerman with no faith in the rule of law, exactly what happened with the Rodney King verdict in 1992.
Forensic experts: Zimmerman was not crying for help on 911 tapes By Andrew Jones Saturday, March 31, 2012 19:08 EDT 21 Topics: George Zimmerman ♦ orlando sentinel ♦ Owen Forensic Services LLC
Two forensic voice experts have told The Orlando Sentinel Saturday that neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman was not the voice crying for help in the 911 calls after he shot Trayvon Martin.
Tom Owen, a forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and a court-qualified expert witness, used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman’s voice to the 911 calls with cries in the background after the shooting on February 26th.
“I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else,” Owen said. “As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it’s not Zimmerman.”
Another expert, Ed Primeau of Michigan, used audio enhancement and human analysis to also determined that it was the slain teenager’s voice instead of his shooter.
“I believe that’s Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt,” Primeau told The Orlando Sentinel. “That’s a young man screaming.”
What was the evidence of Martin being the one who attacked Zimmerman? Sure that's what Zimmerman says but we're not going to get Martin's side of the story because Zimmerman killed him.
So Zimmerman is lying by default, is that what you're saying?
Eye witnesses put Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating the shit out of him. If Zimmerman wanted to do damage to him, all he had to do was pull out his handgun before Trayvon got that close to him.
Screams can be heard in at least one call made to police before officers arrived at the scene in Sanford, Fla. Martin’s parents say the voice is their son yelling for help; a friend of Zimmerman’s has said it is Zimmerman screaming.
Screams can be heard in at least one call made to police before officers arrived at the scene in Sanford, Fla. Martin’s parents say the voice is their son yelling for help; a friend of Zimmerman’s has said it is Zimmerman screaming.
inShare.0Share thisEmailPrintBy Stephanie Rabiner, Esq. at FindLaw.com
Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:23pm EDT
Have you heard about the George Zimmerman domestic violence allegations? What about the claims that he once attacked a cop?
They both appear to be true. Media has unearthed Zimmerman's criminal record, finding evidence that, in 2005, he was charged with resisting arrest with violence and battery of a law enforcement officer. That same year, his ex-fiance filed for a domestic violence restraining order, which was granted.
So a history of violence for the guy who shot the kid.
What? That's impossible! Just ask Dave! He'll tell you! The white guy is a decent, white 'Merican citizen and the guy he gunned down in cold blooded murder was a dirty black kid. Don't you understand, MEM?
SEE?!!! HE'S A NON-WHITE THUG!! HE DESERVED TO BE GUNNED DOWN!!! SOOOORRROOOOSSSSS!!!!
You're such a fucking, literal racist it's not even funny anymore. I hope you don't procreate and ruin the gene pool. Pathetic old man...
Ignoring your worthless taunts, slanders and baseless insults, it's not about Trayvon Martin being racially black. Many good and hardworking people in this country are black, that I'm glad to include among my professional associates and friends.
The issue is that Trayvon Martin, by his own self-chosen Facebook photos (that the media selectively omits) demonstrate that Trayvon was immersed in a criminal/thug subculture within the black community that was leading him down a criminal path. As Trayvon's three suspensions from school for drugs, spraying graffitti, and assaulting someone also manifest. Trayvon Martin was on a 10-day suspension from school on the night of the shooting. This kid was definitely not on his way to Harvard.
We're not talking about a black honor student who just innocently crossed paths with the wrong guy. Clearly, Martin's own actions --confronting Zimmerman physically, when Zimmerman had only watched him from a distance and reported him to police-- had a large role in what happened.
You know Pro is admitting defeat when he goes into Repostmetheus mode.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
New details about Trayvon Martin's record as well as his personal interactions on Facebook and Twitter accounts have emerged recently, as George Zimmerman supporters defend his actions.
The Trayvon Martin case continues to stir emotions throughout the country with supporters on both sides of the fence rallying and attempting to quell outcries from the other. New details about Trayvon Martin's record as well as his personal interactions on Facebook and Twitter have emerged recently, as George Zimmerman supporters defend his "Stand Your Ground" right.
Zimmerman, of white and Peruvian descent, shot and killed the 17-year-old African American on Feb. 26 while he was walking to his father's house in Sanford, Fla., after going to a nearby store to buy candy. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, has not been charged with any crime. He claims that he shot the unarmed Martin, with a Kel-Tec 9mm handgun, in self-defense.
The Sanford Police Department has been criticized for its handling of the killing. Police did not conduct an alcohol or drug test on Zimmerman, and Zimmerman was allowed to keep his registered handgun even after the killing. Also, a witness said one of the officers "corrected" her when she said she heard Martin screaming for help, reported Yahoo! News.
Like us on Facebook
But the tide may be turning as more details emerge about the case from Zimmerman's side of the fence (or at least from those who do not want to jump to any conclusions).
Most recently, a police report from the Trayvon Martin case was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel, detailing George Zimmerman's account of the confrontation. "With a single punch," the Orlando Sentinel reported Monday, citing police sources. "Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer ... climbed on top of [him] and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered."
Ever since the case erupted into a national story, George Zimmerman has been fingered as a villain and a cold-blooded killer. According to a CNN poll released on Monday, 73 percent of Americans think police should arrest him.
Three School Suspensions
New details have emerged about Trayvon Martin's record. The 17-year-old had been suspended three times from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.
His first suspension was a result of tardiness and truancy, his family admitted, according to the Miami Herald.
Trayvon Martin's second suspension occurred on Oct. 21. Initially, it was reported that this suspension came after Martin and his friends spray-painted "WTF" on a locker at school. However, the Miami Herald reports that the real reason Martin was suspended in October was that he was caught with a "burglary tool" -- a flathead screwdriver -- and 12 pieces of jewelry, reported the Miami Herald. Martin insisted that the jewelry belonged to a friend.
"Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation," reported the Miami Herald.
Finally, Trayvon Martin was suspended on Feb. 26 for 10 days. On Feb. 21, Martin's cousin tweeted to him about an incident with a bus driver: "Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver." However, his father denied this purported incident had anything to do with Martin's February suspension. "He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that," his father said. "It wasn't a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property]," declining to offer more details.
A family spokesman told the Associated Press on Monday that Martin was suspended because marijuana residue was found in his book bag.
Ben Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon's parents, said, "We think everybody is trying to demonize him."
A Pushback Against the Media's Portrayal of Slain Teen
Photos of Trayvon Martin were culled from his Facebook account along with messages from his Twitter feed. Dan Linehan of Wagist.com compiled photos from Martin's social networking pages and raised the question of whether or not the teen's image has been distorted in the media.
"Even though Trayvon was only 17, he already was sporting gold teeth, and several large tattoos. This one was on his wrist, apparently of his girlfriend's mother's name," wrote Linehan. Linehan showed images that Trayvon Martin posted to his Twitter account, with the handle @NO_LIMIT_N----, depicting his multiple tattoos.
"Almost all of this is in stark contrast to the media's central narrative that Trayvon was a normal, happy, well-adjusted teenager. Instead of that, we are seeing long suspensions from school, tattoos, racially charged epitaphs [sic] and violence," wrote Linehan.
Michael Brendan Dougherty of BusinessInsider.com compared the Trayvon Martin case to the Duke lacrosse rape accusations of 2006. "They [skeptics of the media's portrayal] remember the outrage about the Duke Lacrosse rape story, in which white students were accused of raping a black woman, turned into a feeding frenzy, and indicted in the public mind of heinous racism and abuse when they weren't guilty of much other than being pigs," wrote Dougherty. "They are suspicious of any story that attracts the moralizing of Al Sharpton, owing to his association with things like the Tawana Brawley case, in which a New York girl claimed to have been sexually assaulted and abused and then was later found to have been lying."
"But let's get real. No one knows what really happened," he wrote. "The Trayvon Martin story is just a distressing collection of disconnected facts. The media and social justice activists have told one story with them: of a murder motivated by racism that was covered up by the cops. Now people are pushing back on it. But we don't have definitive answers to all the questions."
Others have taken offense at the immediate public indictment of George Zimmerman when many facts of the case are still unknown.
"Oh how little we have learned," David Shane wrote on PolicyMic.com
"The media has rushed to judgment yet again. Now, it's quite possible that Zimmerman is guilty of everything his worst foes accuse him of. There is plenty about this case that troubles me. But that's exactly the point: I don't know. Neither does anyone else, and both the scope and tone of the media coverage ought to reflect that fact."
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Forensic experts: Zimmerman was not crying for help on 911 tapes By Andrew Jones Saturday, March 31, 2012 19:08 EDT 21 Topics: George Zimmerman ♦ orlando sentinel ♦ Owen Forensic Services LLC
Two forensic voice experts have told The Orlando Sentinel Saturday that neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman was not the voice crying for help in the 911 calls after he shot Trayvon Martin.
Tom Owen, a forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and a court-qualified expert witness, used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman’s voice to the 911 calls with cries in the background after the shooting on February 26th.
“I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else,” Owen said. “As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it’s not Zimmerman.”
Another expert, Ed Primeau of Michigan, used audio enhancement and human analysis to also determined that it was the slain teenager’s voice instead of his shooter.
“I believe that’s Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt,” Primeau told The Orlando Sentinel. “That’s a young man screaming.”
I know you're having fun at what you think is MEM's expense, but the article he's quoting clearly states that the 911 call was after the shooting.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
inShare.0Share thisEmailPrintBy Stephanie Rabiner, Esq. at FindLaw.com
Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:23pm EDT
Have you heard about the George Zimmerman domestic violence allegations? What about the claims that he once attacked a cop?
They both appear to be true. Media has unearthed Zimmerman's criminal record, finding evidence that, in 2005, he was charged with resisting arrest with violence and battery of a law enforcement officer. That same year, his ex-fiance filed for a domestic violence restraining order, which was granted.
So a history of violence for the guy who shot the kid.
What? That's impossible! Just ask Dave! He'll tell you! The white guy is a decent, white 'Merican citizen and the guy he gunned down in cold blooded murder was a dirty black kid. Don't you understand, MEM?
Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say Trayvon Martin's family says unarmed teen begged for his life. Experts say it's not George Zimmerman's voice. 4:38 p.m. CDT, March 31, 2012 As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.
His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.
Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story.
'Scientific certainty'
On a rainy night in late February, a woman called 911 to report someone crying out for help in her gated Sanford community, Retreat at Twin Lakes.
Though several of her neighbors eventually called authorities, she phoned early enough for dispatchers to hear the panicked cries and the gunshot that took Trayvon Martin's life.
George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, shot Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old, during a one-on-one confrontation Feb. 26.
Before the shot, one of them can be heard screaming for help.
Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis — a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.
After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams.
"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent. ...
The exact same thing can be said of acoustics being fed into an audio-splitter through rain, stucco, and the analog feedback. And yet you fully support it.
I do not buy for a second that Trayvon was screaming for help and begging for his life while he was putting the beat down on Zimmerman. It's not impossible, but I don't buy it. Especially not after his dad--one of those "experts" you mentioned--flip-flopped on the voice belonging to his son. First he said it wasn't, and then he said it was. He even avoided telling the press about why his son was suspended for fuck's sake.
I mean, really. For some reason it's just not enough to say things got out of hand. People really have to go out of their way to bury this guy and call him a racist, cold-blooded murder for trying to do his job.
There are also other accounts that conflict with what Zimmerman says happened. This seems to have all the different accounts...
Quote:
One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket — Zimmerman — on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him — Trayvon. “The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me ‘Help, help,’ and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” he said. But last week another unidentified man told CNN that he saw a larger man on top and a boy underneath. There wasn’t much movement, he said. Zimmerman’s father told the Orlando TV station that as his son was being beaten he tried to move from the concrete onto the grass. In doing so, he said, the gun his son kept in a holster on his waist was exposed. “Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of ‘You’re going to die now’ or ‘You’re gonna die tonight’ — something to that effect,” Robert Zimmerman said. “He continued to beat George. At some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did.” Seven calls came in to 911. “They’re wrestling right in the back of my porch,” one caller said. “A guy is yelling, ‘Help.’…. I’m pretty sure the guy is dead.” “I saw a man lying on the ground and he needed help, screaming,” one 13-year-old boy told 911. “I heard a loud sound, and the screaming stopped.” Selma Mora Lamilla heard no fighting, only what she says was the wail of a child and the distinct crack of gunfire that silenced it. She ran outside her back porch, where she said she saw Zimmerman standing above Trayvon, apparently holding him down. “I asked him, “What’s happening here? What’s going on?” Mora said. “The third time, I was indignant, and he said, ‘Just call the police.’ Then I saw him with his hands over his head in the universal sign of: ‘Oh man, I messed up.’ ” ...ABC News later reported that a boy who witnessed part of the incident said he saw someone matching Zimmerman’s red-jacket description lying on the grass, suggesting the shooter had told the truth when he said Trayvon had knocked him down. But the boy, 13-year-old Austin McLendon, gave 911 and The Miami Herald a different account. “He never said he saw someone in a red shirt or someone on top of another person — someone is switching his story,” said Austin’s mother, Cheryl Brown. “The police came here and asked him leading questions like, ‘The first person had a red shirt?’ because they wanted him to say, ‘Yes, the person had a red shirt.’ ” Brown said she will hire an attorney to demand a copy of the audio statement her son gave to prove he has never wavered, and never claimed to see Zimmerman on the ground.
It's not a matter of trusting one account over the other since I posted them all. Why would you assume Zimmerman didn't start the fight just because he had some minor injuries during their scuffle?
What was the evidence of Martin being the one who attacked Zimmerman? Sure that's what Zimmerman says but we're not going to get Martin's side of the story because Zimmerman killed him.
911 calls and interviewed witnesses, as well as crime-scene evidence.
Which I linked above. That's the only side of the story CNN and other liberal media want to give full exposure to, as they selectively omit and minimize the evidence that supports Zimmerman's version.
An independent Florida state investigation is also under way.
Even as the Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, black politicians and liberal media toss kerosine on the fire and push for lynching Zimmerman with no faith in the rule of law, exactly what happened with the Rodney King verdict in 1992.
You may not have read all the 911 calls WB since some seem not to support Zimmerman's story. If you're picking and choosing to support one side over the other I don't get that but whatever.
It's not a matter of trusting one account over the other since
Apparently it is since you're attributing more credibility to one story over another and trying to marginalize the fact that Zimmerman was injured. You've clearly taken a position on this.
