RKMBs
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-28 2:35 AM
So given recent events it's time for the unofficial Impeaching Trump thread. I don't take impeachment lightly but to me hearing Trump ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival crosses a line. Simply put if Obama had done this I would be very unhappy. Before the rough transcript of Trump's call was released I wasn't on the impeachment bandwagon even though I saw Trump being unfit and corrupt. With '20 right around the corner and him being voted out of office is going to the best form of impeachment. I also doubt enough republicans would actually vote for it no matter what. But Trump crossed a line that I think most people can see. It might feel better attacking the other side but it still doesn't change what Trump did.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-28 5:05 PM
This shows a timeline of events and Trump lying
Slate
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-30 5:43 AM

This is, what, the fourth time the Democrats have tried to bring impeachment of Trump to the House for a vote?

And each time it blows up in their faces, and their partisan vindictiveness becomes clear, their lawless manipulation of the system to bring down Trump and enact their Bolshevik revolution by whatever deceit and abuse of power is available to them.



WHISTLEBLOWER FORM RECENTLY MODIFIED TO PERMIT COMPLAINT "HEARD FROM OTHERS", AND NOT FROM A DIRCET FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF FACTS

 Quote:
As we begin to understand the general outline of how the Schiff Dossier was assembled, we are now starting to get into the specifics. First discovered by researcher Stephen McIntyre, there is now evidence surfacing showing the ICIG recently created an entirely new ‘whistleblower complaint form’ that specifically allowed for the filing of complaints “heard from others“.

Prior to the current “whistleblower complaint” the Intelligence Community Inspector General did not accept whistle-blower claims without first hand knowledge. However, the ICIG revised the protocol in August 2019 allowing for the EXACT type of complaint now registered from the CIA whistleblower.

The IGIC revision was made at the same time HPSCI Chairman Adam Schiff was tweeting in August about President Trump, Rudy Giuliani and holding back funding pending assistance with political opponents. Note the Date: (link)

The timing here is far too coincidental. This was a set-up.

Sean Davis from the Federalist is also hot on the trail.


  • Sean Davis – Between May 2018 and August 2019, the intelligence community secretly eliminated a requirement that whistleblowers provide direct, first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoings. This raises questions about the intelligence community’s behavior regarding the August submission of a whistleblower complaint against President Donald Trump. The new complaint document no longer requires potential whistleblowers who wish to have their concerns expedited to Congress to have direct, first-hand knowledge of the alleged wrongdoing that they are reporting.

    The brand new version of the whistleblower complaint form, which was not made public until after the transcript of Trump’s July 25 phone call with the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and the complaint addressed to Congress were made public, eliminates the first-hand knowledge requirement and allows employees to file whistleblower complaints even if they have zero direct knowledge of underlying evidence and only “heard about [wrongdoing] from others.”

    The internal properties of the newly revised “Disclosure of Urgent Concern” form, which the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG) requires to be submitted under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA), show that the document was uploaded on September 24, 2019, at 4:25 p.m., just days before the anti-Trump complaint was declassified and released to the public. The markings on the document state that it was revised in August 2019, but no specific date of revision is disclosed. (read more)


President Trump announced Joseph Macguire as the Acting ODNI on August 8th, 2019. (link) The CIA operative “whistle-blower” letter to Adam Schiff and Richard Burr was on August 12th (link). Immediately following this letter, the ICIG rules and requirements for “whistle-blowers” was modified, allowing hearsay complaints. On August 28th Adam Schiff begins tweeting about the construct of the complaint.


As Stephen McIntyre notes: “it appears almost certain that, subsequent to the CIA operative “WB” complaint, the DNI introduced a brand new Urgent Disclosure Form which offered a previously unavailable alternative to report allegations with no personal knowledge.”


The prior IGIC complaint form can be viewed via the Wayback Machine – SEE HERE and the new IGIC complaint form that allows hearsay can be compared HERE.

>>>The CIA whistleblower complaint is likely the VERY FIRST complaint allowed using the new IGIC protocol and standard.<<< Taken in combination with the timeline of the August 12th notification letter to Schiff and Burr and the Schiff tweet of August 28th, there’s little room for doubt this Ukraine whistleblower impeachment effort was pre-planned.

Additionally, this coordinated effort ties back-in Intelligence Community Inspector General, Michael K Atkinson.

The center of the Lawfare Alliance influence was/is the Department of Justice National Security Division, DOJ-NSD. It was the DOJ-NSD running the Main Justice side of the 2016 operations to support Operation Crossfire Hurricane and FBI agent Peter Strzok. It was also the DOJ-NSD where the sketchy legal theories around FARA [Foreign Agents Registration Act] violations (Sec. 901) originated.

The Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) is Michael K Atkinson. ICIG Atkinson is the official who accepted the ridiculous premise of a hearsay ‘whistle-blower‘ complaint; an intelligence whistleblower who was “blowing-the-whistle” based on second hand information of a phone call without any direct personal knowledge, ie ‘hearsay‘.

Michael K Atkinson was previously the Senior Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General of the National Security Division of the Department of Justice (DOJ-NSD) in 2016. That makes Atkinson senior legal counsel to John Carlin and Mary McCord who were the former heads of the DOJ-NSD in 2016 when the stop Trump operation was underway.


[Irony Reminder: The DOJ-NSD was purposefully under no IG oversight. In 2015 the OIG requested oversight and it was Sally Yates who responded with a lengthy 58 page legal explanation saying, essentially, ‘nope – not allowed.’ (PDF HERE) All of the DOJ is subject to oversight, except the NSD.]

Put another way, Michael Atkinson was the lawyer for the same DOJ-NSD players who: (1) lied to the FISA court (Judge Rosemary Collyer) about the 80% non compliant NSA database abuse using FBI contractors; (2) filed the FISA application against Carter Page; and (3) used FARA violations as tools for political surveillance and political targeting.

Yes, that means Michael Atkinson was Senior Counsel for the DOJ-NSD, at the very epicenter of the political weaponization and FISA abuse.

Immediately after the Carter Page FISA warrant is approved, in the period where DOJ-NSD head John Carlin has given his notice of intent to leave but not yet left, inside those specific two weeks, the National Security Division of the DOJ tells the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) they have been breaking the law. The NSD specifically inform the court they are aware of contractors who have been using FISA 702(16)(17) database search queries to extract information on political candidates.

DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz has looked into the FISA application used against U.S. Person Carter Page. Additionally, U.S. Attorney John Durham is said to be looking at the intelligence communities’ use of systems for spying and surveillance.


the DOJ-NSD exploitation of the NSA database, and/or DOJ-NSD FISA abuse, and/or DOJ-NSD FARA corruption were ever to reach sunlight, current ICIG Atkinson -as the lawyer for the process- would be under a lot of scrutiny for his involvement.

Yes, that gives current ICIG Michael Atkinson a strong and corrupt motive to participate with the Schiff/Lawfare impeachment objective.

Atkinson’s conflict-of-self-interest, and/or possible blackmail upon him by deep state actors who most certainly know his compromise, likely influenced his approach to this whistleblower complaint. That would explain why the Dept. of Justice Office of Legal Counsel so strongly rebuked Atkinson’s interpretation of his responsibility with the complaint.

In the Justice Department’s OLC opinion, they point out that Atkinson’s internal justification for accepting the whistleblower complaint was poor legal judgement. [See Here] I would say Atkinson’s decision is directly related to his own risk exposure:

Within a heavy propaganda report from the New York Times there are also details about the Intelligence Community Inspector General that show the tell-tale fingerprints of the ICIG supportive intent (emphasis mine):

  • […] Mr. Atkinson, a Trump appointee, nevertheless concluded that the allegations appeared to be credible and identified two layers of concern.

    The first involved a possible violation of criminal law. Mr. Trump’s comments to Mr. Zelensky “could be viewed as soliciting a foreign campaign contribution in violation of the campaign-finance laws,” Mr. Atkinson wrote, according to the Justice Department memo. (read more)


Does the “foreign campaign contribution” angle sound familiar? It should, because that argument was used in the narrative around the Trump Tower meeting with the Russian Lobbyist Natalia Veselnitskaya. More specifically, just like FARA violations the overused “campaign contribution” narrative belongs to a specific network of characters, Lawfare.

The “Schiff Dossier”, aka “whistle-blower” complaint was a constructed effort of allied members within congress and the intelligence apparatus to renew the impeachment effort. The intelligence team, including the ICIG, changed the whistleblower form to allow the CIA to insert the Schiff Dossier, written by Lawfare.

The Soft-Coup effort continues…



Further, as reported on One America News all day today, the change of the "whistleblower form" to expand from first-person/eyewitness accounts only to third-person hearsay was JUST APPROVED. That approval had to be at a high level, most likely CIA director Gina Haspel. And very recently.
Gina Haspel, it turns out, was very close to former CIA director (and vocal Trump hater, and leftist/communisst) John Brennan. It turns out many of Haspel's closest assistants are former Brennan staffers, and one former Brennan staffer in particular came out of retirement to serve agaain in Haspel's CIA. Brennan is also thought to be the architect of the Russia Hoax that has kept Trump buried in investigation for almost 3 years.
So it's highly suspect --highly suspect-- that this whistleblower form was recently changed under cover of darkness by Haspel, and then as soon as the ink dries, the first whistleblower allegation under the new rules is President Trump himself!
Highly suspicious.

From the chosen successor of Russia Hoax architect Brennan and his closest deep state lieutenants, no less.

While Brennan still ran the CIA, Haspel was assingned to London, at the exact time Christopher Steelee and Fusion GPS were putting together the Russia Dossier to smear Trump.
And who else from the FBI was in London at the exact same time (an overseas assignment normally given to a lower-level FBI agent)?
Peter Strzok.

The plot thckens, doesn't it?


Ignoring all the above:
1) Who is Trump's "whistleblower" accuser?
2) What EXACTLY is Trump accused of doing?
3) What corroborating evidence is there of the unknown allegation Trump is accused of?

This is so clearly a set-up, and the Democrats are trying to rush this presidential coup along before the public realizes they've been bamboozled by the Democrats and the Deep State. AGAIN .

It's insane.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-30 6:04 AM


Also, the "whistleblower" report is intended to be used to report problems in the intelligence field (FBI, CIA, NSA, and others within the 17 total federal intelligence agencies). It was never intended to include launching reports on the President, who isn't even part of the intelligence field.

It's an unprecedented stretch to have a whistleblower report that doesn't have direct firsthand knowledge. JUST CHANGED.

And it's an unprecedented stretch to have that whistleblower system stretched to attack the president himself.

It's so obvious what the Democrats and his enemies in the bureaucratic Deep State system are trying to do. By any other name, it is a coup, a power grab, a scam, a hustle.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-30 6:10 AM
i don't see how you can blame democrats for Trump asking a foreign country to investigate his political rival. Trump did that on his own. The whistleblower has given a lot of names but Trump's release of the rough transcript is what I think will end up fucking him in the end. It's very black and white that Trump asked the Ukrainian president to investigate Biden with his personal lawyer and Barr assisting. I do not for a minute think you would be okay if that had been Obama asking a foreign power to do that to a republican.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-30 6:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
So given recent events it's time for the unofficial Impeaching Trump thread. I don't take impeachment lightly but to me hearing Trump ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival crosses a line.


Trump had a very routine conversation with Ukranian president Zelensky, where Trump demanded nothing, and asked "if you could..." for Zelensky to have his legal staff send what they knew about the Ukranian interference in the 2016 election, and Crowdstrike, and the corruption investigation of Hunter Biden. Which by the way, Zelensky, not Trump, first raised in their phone conversation.

No demands, no threats, no quid pro qquo, just a simple request for information. And in point of fact, information that the Ukranians had repeatedly offered for 3 years to a Hillary/Obama-loyalist deep state FBI/DOJ, that had repeatedly been ignored by an FBI/DOJ completely indifferent to investigating it.



 Originally Posted By: M E M
Simply put if Obama had done this I would be very unhappy.


Uh...

OBAMA [to Medvedev secretly]: "This is my last election, I can be much more flexible after the election..."

MEDVEDEV [eagerly!]: "I will transmit this information to Vladimir!"

Not to mention the threats in a letter to Ukraine from Senators Leahy, Menendez and Durbin, that made very clear that aid to Ukraine was completely dependent on cooperating with the Democrats to defame Trump in 2016.

Not to mention the Russia Dosssier funded by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign, paying about $2 million dollars to Russian agents, two of whom were Russian intelligence chiefs.

What an amazing double-standard you have, M E M, to turn a complete blind eye to the blatant criminality and collaborative treason by your fellow Democrats.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
Before the rough transcript of Trump's call was released I wasn't on the impeachment bandwagon even though I saw Trump being unfit and corrupt. With '20 right around the corner and him being voted out of office is going to the best form of impeachment. I also doubt enough republicans would actually vote for it no matter what. But Trump crossed a line that I think most people can see. It might feel better attacking the other side but it still doesn't change what Trump did.


Specifically WHAT ?!?!?
Nothing specific has been disclosed by the whistleblower. It is even clear he/she has no firsthand knowledge about Trump's call, only hearsay. Many Republican Senate and House members have said that when Trump 100% disclosed the minutes of his phone call, more was disclosed by Trump than could possibly hyave been known by the "whistleblower"! Period. The end.
There is nothing revealed that would suddenly warrant an impeachment trial, no new information.

The Democrat logic is: We hate Trump. We suport any contrivance that has a snowball's chance of deposing Trump.
But it doesn't. Not even all the Democrats in the House will support impeachment.
And even if it passed the House, the Senate has a majority of Republicans, who will never vote for impeachment. Not because Republicans have a corrupt partisan loyalty, but because there is no logical reason to impeach Trump. You can't even put into words a lucid thesis of what Trump is guilty of. Because it is a Democrat lie.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-09-30 2:41 PM
The next presidential election is only a little over a year away. The fact that the Democrats are talking impeachment at this late date seems a tacit admission they can’t beat Trump at the ballot box
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-01 3:22 AM
I think given what was in the rough call transcript that was released, Trump's actions demand it. And considering that republicans control the Senate I don't understand your logic. To remove Trump from office it would require more than a couple republicans to vote with Dems.

And WB it is not routine for a president to ask a foreign power to specifically investigate his political rival while withholding military aid.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-01 4:31 AM
Fact check-Were the whistleblower blower rules change?

Another conspiracy theory debunked.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-01 10:00 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Fact check-Were the whistleblower blower rules change?

Another conspiracy theory debunked.



Factcheck = Washington Post

Politifact = Tampa Tribune

Both are centerpieces of the Hate Trump (and really, Hate Republican) liberal media.

As I've cited before, 75% of their "factchecks" target Republicans, and only 25% of the time do they factcheck Democrats, to have some semblance of balanced non-partisan scrutiny.
And I've read many, MANY "factchecks" where I know for certain that Trump or some other Republican was 100% accurate in their public statements, but the "factcheck" sites label it as "partially true" or "somewhat true" by straining to find some context that wasn't covered in the comments. When Trump or whoever answers questions at a press conference for 10 minutes, or even 45 minutes, it is impossible to cover every nuance in a brief answer, no matter how much one tries.
And Republicans --of course!-- are subject to far more scrutiny in their comments, whereas liberal statements are just accepted as true without challenge by liberal reporters and interviewers.

One comment I can recall by Trump was where he talked about islamic immigration to Sweden, that has resulted in a more than doubling of rape statistics there (roughly the time Trump made his "shithole nations" comment).
The liberal media and factcheckers labelled Trump ignorant and racist and "partly true" at best in his comments. Within a week, the true facts revealed that Trump's comments were 100% true.

And fuck the liberal "factcheckers". It is another attempt by the liberal media to hide behind a false veil of pseudo-objectivity, that they truly don't have. They are liberal media propagandists. And Snopes is another liberal apologist site. They are right sometimes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-01 10:34 AM

 Originally Posted By: from the "factcheck"

In addition, the intelligence community's inspector general, Michael Atkinson, deemed the complaint an "urgent concern" that he was required by law to provide to the congressional intelligence committees. But [acting Director of Nationa Intelligence Joseph] Maguire refused to do so on the advice of the Justice Department, resulting in a standoff with Congress that ultimately resulted in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi backing a formal impeachment inquiry against Trump.


That lyingly glosses over quite a bit. DNI Maguire, having never received a "whistleblower" report anything like this one, consulted lawyers of the Justice Department to decide from an informed legal perspective how to handle the report. Together, Maguire and DOJ, while investigating the report themselves, ultimately decided that there was not enough substance or confirmed information beyond hearsay to submit the report to the Congressional committee.

This unprecedented "whistleblower report" is in truth a White House leak hiding behind a mask of pseudo-legitimacy. It is yet another attack on the president, and just the latest half-baked excuse to pursue a presidential impeachment that House Democrat radicals have been itching for since before Trump was even inaugurated in early 2017.

AGAIN:
1) Who is Trump's "whistleblower" accuser?
2) What EXACTLY is Trump accused of doing?
3) What corroborating evidence is there of the unknown allegation Trump is accused of?

This is so clearly a set-up, and the Democrats are trying to rush this presidential coup along before the public realizes they've been bamboozled by the Democrats and the Deep State. AGAIN .

But it's too late. The public already knows what the Democrats are up to.


Nothing in the NBC News article explains 1) why the form was recently changed sometime in the last year, and why no one knows precisely when or who or why the form was changed, just in time to launch this attack on Trump with the new report form, 2) who within the CIA approved the changes, although it seems to have been approved at least partly by CIA director Gina Haspel herself, and 3) how Gina Haspel has ties with John Brennan, one of Trump's most vociferous critics, and is widely believed to be the architect of the Russia Hoax himself, 4) that several of Haspel's closest assistants are from Brennan's staff, one of whom came out of retirement to serve as Gina Haspel's assistant, 5) that Haspel was assigned to London with the CIA directly by Brennan in 2016, and that coincides with when Peter Strzok was in London assembling the Russia Dossier with Christopher Steele to falsely incriminate Trump.

It gives off an overpowering stench of Deep State anti-Trump corruption and conspiracy. There is no legitimacy whatsoever to this coup attempt.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-02 3:45 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Fact check-Were the whistleblower blower rules change?

Another conspiracy theory debunked.



Factcheck = Washington Post

Politifact = Tampa Tribune

Both are centerpieces of the Hate Trump (and really, Hate Republican) liberal media.

As I've cited before, 75% of their "factchecks" target Republicans, and only 25% of the time do they factcheck Democrats, to have some semblance of balanced non-partisan scrutiny.
And I've read many, MANY "factchecks" where I know for certain that Trump or some other Republican was 100% accurate in their public statements, but the "factcheck" sites label it as "partially true" or "somewhat true" by straining to find some context that wasn't covered in the comments. When Trump or whoever answers questions at a press conference for 10 minutes, or even 45 minutes, it is impossible to cover every nuance in a brief answer, no matter how much one tries.
And Republicans --of course!-- are subject to far more scrutiny in their comments, whereas liberal statements are just accepted as true without challence by liberal reporters and interviewers.

One comment I can recall by Trump was where he talked about islamic immigration to Sweden, that has resulted in a more than doubling of rape statistics there (roughly the time Trump made his "shithole nations" comment).
The liberal media and factcheckers labelled Trum ignorant and racist and "partly true" at best in his comments. Within a week, the true facts revealed that Trump's comments were 100% true.
And fuck the liberal "factcheckers". It is another attempt by the liberal media to hide behind a false veil of pseudo-objectivity, that they truly don't have. They are liberal media propagandists. And Snopes is another liberal apologist site. They are right sometimes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.



So you hate the folks that debunked a GOP conspiracy talking point. How should I feel about republicans that pushed the false conspiracy theory?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-03 3:15 PM



You're barely lucid enough that I can even discern what you're saying, M E M. You're certainly not citing anything to back up your opinion.


It is a Democrat talking point (aided and widely propagandized by the liberal media) that the facts cited by Trump, Giuliaani and the Ukranian government are "just a conspiracy theory". Despite that the facts incriminate Rep. Adam Schiff, Vice President Biden and his son Hunter Biden as criminal liars, the liberal media and Democrat leadership refuse to acknowledge those facts.

And worse, Democrats try to front the Bolshevik-style narrative that it is Republicans who are fronting false information, rather than the Democrats who are propagandizing against the truth and knowingly spreading lies.


John Solomon of The Hill wrote an article citing all the deliberate misrepresentations by the Democrats, and sourcing the true facts your side likes to pretend don't exist.


Solomon: These once-secret memos cast doubt on Joe Biden's Ukraine story

 Quote:
by John Solomon, The Hill


Former Vice President Joe Biden, now a 2020 Democratic presidential contender, has locked into a specific story about the controversy in Ukraine.

He insists that, in spring 2016, he strong-armed Ukraine to fire its chief prosecutor solely because Biden believed that official was corrupt and inept, not because the Ukrainian was investigating a natural gas company, Burisma Holdings, that hired Biden's son, Hunter, into a lucrative job.

There’s just one problem.

Hundreds of pages of never-released memos and documents — many from inside the American team helping Burisma to stave off its legal troubles — conflict with Biden’s narrative.

And they raise the troubling prospect that U.S. officials may have painted a false picture in Ukraine that helped ease Burisma’s legal troubles and stop prosecutors’ plans to interview Hunter Biden during the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

For instance, Burisma’s American legal representatives met with Ukrainian officials just days after Biden forced the firing of the country’s chief prosecutor and offered “an apology for dissemination of false information by U.S. representatives and public figures” about the Ukrainian prosecutors, according to the Ukrainian government’s official memo of the meeting. The effort to secure that meeting began the same day the prosecutor's firing was announced.

In addition, Burisma’s American team offered to introduce Ukrainian prosecutors to Obama administration officials to make amends, according to that memo and the American legal team’s internal emails.

The memos raise troubling questions:

1.) If the Ukraine prosecutor’s firing involved only his alleged corruption and ineptitude, why did Burisma's American legal team refer to those allegations as “false information?"

2.) If the firing had nothing to do with the Burisma case, as Biden has adamantly claimed, why would Burisma’s American lawyers contact the replacement prosecutor within hours of the termination and urgently seek a meeting in Ukraine to discuss the case?

Ukrainian prosecutors say they have tried to get this information to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) since the summer of 2018, fearing it might be evidence of possible violations of U.S. ethics laws. First, they hired a former federal prosecutor to bring the information to the U.S. attorney in New York, who, they say, showed no interest. Then, the Ukrainians reached out to President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.

Ukraine’s new president, Volodymyr Zelensky, told Trump in July that he plans to launch his own wide-ranging investigation into what happened with the Bidens and Burisma.

“I’m knowledgeable about the situation,” Zelensky told Trump, asking the American president to forward any evidence he might know about. "The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case.”

Biden has faced scrutiny since December 2015, when the New York Times published a story noting that Burisma hired Hunter Biden just weeks after the vice president was asked by President Obama to oversee U.S.-Ukraine relations. That story also alerted Biden’s office that Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin had an active investigation of Burisma and its founder.

Documents I obtained this year detail an effort to change the narrative after the [New York] Times story about Hunter Biden, with the help of the Obama State Department.

Hunter Biden’s American business partner in Burisma, Devon Archer, texted a colleague two days after the Times story about a strategy to counter the “new wave of scrutiny” and stated that he and Hunter Biden had just met at the State Department. The text suggested there was about to be a new “USAID project the embassy is announcing with us” and that it was “perfect for us to move forward now with momentum.”

I have sued the State Department for any records related to that meeting. The reason is simple: There is both a public interest and an ethics question to knowing if Hunter Biden and his team sought State’s assistance while his father was vice president.

The controversy ignited anew earlier this year when I disclosed that Joe Biden admitted during a 2018 videotaped speech that, as vice president in March 2016, he threatened to cancel $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, to pressure Ukraine’s then-President Petro Poroshenko to fire Shokin. [Who was fired by the Ukranian president within 6 hours of the threat.]

At the time, Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma. Shokin told me he was making plans to question Hunter Biden about $3 million in fees that Biden and his partner, Archer, collected from Burisma through their American firm. Documents seized by the FBI in an unrelated case confirm the payments, which in many months totaled more than $166,000.

Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.

After I first reported it in a column, the New York Times and ABC News published similar stories confirming my reporting.

Joe Biden has since responded that he forced Shokin’s firing over concerns about corruption and ineptitude, which he claims were widely shared by Western allies, and that it had nothing to do with the Burisma investigation.

Some of the new documents I obtained call that claim into question.

In a newly sworn affidavit prepared for a European court, Shokin testified that when he was fired in March 2016, he was told the reason was that Biden was unhappy about the Burisma investigation. “The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors,” Shokin testified.

“On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company but I refused to close this investigation,” Shokin added.


Shokin certainly would have reason to hold a grudge over his firing. But his account is supported by documents from Burisma’s legal team in America, which appeared to be moving into Ukraine with intensity as Biden’s effort to fire Shokin picked up steam.

Burisma’s own accounting records show that it paid tens of thousands of dollars while Hunter Biden served on the board of an American lobbying and public relations firm, Blue Star Strategies, run by Sally Painter and Karen Tramontano, who both served in President Bill Clinton’s administration.

Just days before Biden forced Shokin’s firing, Painter met with the No. 2 official at the Ukrainian embassy in Washington and asked to meet officials in Kiev around the same time that Joe Biden visited there. Ukrainian embassy employee Oksana Shulyar emailed Painter afterward: “With regards to the meetings in Kiev, I suggest that you wait until the next week when there is an expected vote of the government’s reshuffle.”

Ukraine’s Washington embassy confirmed the conversations between Shulyar and Painter but said the reference to a shakeup in Ukrainian government was not specifically referring to Shokin’s firing or anything to do with Burisma.

Painter then asked one of the Ukraine embassy’s workers to open the door for meetings with Ukraine’s prosecutors about the Burisma investigation, the memos show. Eventually, Blue Star would pay that Ukrainian official money for his help with the prosecutor's office.

At the time, Blue Star worked in concert with an American criminal defense lawyer, John Buretta, who was hired by Burisma to help address the case in Ukraine. The case was settled in January 2017 for a few million dollars in fines for alleged tax issues.

Buretta, Painter, Tramontano, Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s campaign have not responded to numerous calls and emails seeking comment.

On March 29, 2016, the day Shokin’s firing was announced, Buretta asked to speak with Yuriy Sevruk, the prosecutor named to temporarily replace Shokin, but was turned down, the memos show.

Blue Star, using the Ukrainian embassy worker it had hired, eventually scored a meeting with Sevruk on April 6, 2016, a week after Shokin’s firing. Buretta, Tramontano and Painter attended that meeting in Kiev, according to Blue Star’s memos.

Sevruk memorialized the meeting in a government memo that the general prosecutor’s office provided to me, stating that the three Americans offered an apology for the “false” narrative that had been provided by U.S. officials about Shokin being corrupt and inept.

“They realized that the information disseminated in the U.S. was incorrect and that they would facilitate my visit to the U.S. for the purpose of delivering the true information to the State Department management,” the memo stated.

The memo also quoted the Americans as saying they knew Shokin pursued an aggressive corruption investigation against Burisma’s owner, only to be thwarted by British allies: “These individuals noted that they had been aware that the Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine had implemented all required steps for prosecution … and that he was released by the British court due to the underperformance of the British law enforcement agencies.”

The memo provides a vastly different portrayal of Shokin than Biden's. And its contents are partially backed by subsequent emails from Blue Star and Buretta that confirm the offer to bring Ukrainian authorities to meet the Obama administration in Washington.

For instance, Tramontano wrote the Ukrainian prosecution team on April 16, 2016, saying U.S. Justice Department officials, including top international prosecutor Bruce Swartz, might be willing to meet. “The reforms are not known to the US Justice Department and it would be useful for the Prosecutor General to meet officials in the US and share this information directly,” she wrote.

Buretta sent a similar email to the Ukrainians, writing that “I think you would find it productive to meet with DOJ officials in Washington” and providing contact information for Swartz. “I would be happy to help,” added Buretta, a former senior DOJ official.

Burisma, Buretta and Blue Star continued throughout 2016 to try to resolve the open issues in Ukraine, and memos recount various contacts with the State Department and the U.S. embassy in Kiev seeking help in getting the Burisma case resolved.

Just days before Trump took office, Burisma announced it had resolved all of its legal issues. And Buretta gave an interview in Ukraine about how he helped navigate the issues.

Today, two questions remain.

One is whether it was ethically improper or even illegal for Biden to intervene to fire the prosecutor handling Burisma’s case, given his son’s interests. That is one that requires more investigation and the expertise of lawyers.

The second is whether Biden has given the American people an honest accounting of what happened. The new documents I obtained raise serious doubts about his story’s credibility. And that’s an issue that needs to be resolved by voters.

____________________________________

John Solomon is an award-winning investigative journalist whose work over the years has exposed U.S. and FBI intelligence failures before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal scientists’ misuse of foster children and veterans in drug experiments, and numerous cases of political corruption. He serves as an investigative columnist and executive vice president for video at The Hill. Follow him on Twitter @jsolomonReports.

John Solomon's prior columns:
https://thehill.com/author/john-solomon




Just one big happy family of Clinton and Obama administration lawyers, politicians, and their sons and step sons, enrriching themselves on deals in Ukraine and China, almost immediately after Obama appointed Biden to oversee business development in these nations.
And just the slightest coincidence that Obama's son, recently fired from the military, with no experience in the energy industry or in Ukrainian business, is suddenly appointed on the board of the energy company Burisma Holdings. Hunter Biden doesn't even speaak their language, but received between $50,000 and $81,000 a month, sometimes as high as $150,000 per month, for... well, no one can quite discern precisely what work Hunter Biden did for these payments. Aside from being the son of the Vice President who controlled U.S. aid to Ukraine.

And again, just the slightest coincidence, when Hunter Biden was about to be investigated in the summer of 2016, Joseph Biden (through officials in the State Department) found out his son was about to be investigated and interviewed by Ukranian prosecutor Shokin, and Biden gave the Ukranian president a threat of witholding a billion dollars in U.S. aid that Ukraine desperately needed, if Shokin were not fired within 6 hours before Biden's flight. And... "son of a bitch! He got fired..."

Nope, move along, nothing to see here...

What's obscene is even when some of the media actually report the truth, the liberal media flies cover for the Bolshevik Dems and buries that truth as "a disproven conspiracy theory" and right wing propaganda.
Truly incredible, and scary.

I think if and when the Democrats ever regain the presidency, It'll be like the movie Red Dawn, with all Republicans de-platformed, disarmed, denied employment, and put in "re-education camps." Or just killed in the streets like Jews in Nazi Germany. The Bolshevik Democrats have already voiced that intent, abundantly.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-03 3:33 PM


Sean Davis: Intel Community IG ‘Straight Up Refused’ To Answer Why They Changed The Rules


 Quote:
September 30, 2019 By The Federalist Staff


On Fox News’ “Fox & Friends” Monday, Sean Davis explained the corruption within the intelligence community. Over the course of the past year, the intel community eliminated a requirement that whistleblowers must provide firsthand knowledge of alleged wrongdoings in order to file a complaint.

“The changes to eliminate the requirement for firsthand information in whistleblower complaints happened between May 2018 and August 2019. … When we asked the DNI and the IC IG for information on who changed it, when, and why, they straight up refused to answer that question,” Davis said.
Davis also talked about a possible collaboration between Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., and the intelligence community.

On Aug. 28, Schiff tweeted information from the whistleblower complaint before it was made available to Congress in September.



Schiff is exposed for the liar he is, and headed for an ass-pounding.



A shorter article, based on Davis' full column on the subject:

TOP LAWMAKERS TELL INTEL COMMUNITY INSPECTOR GENERAL: COME CLEAN ON SECRET CHANGES TO THE WHISTLEBLOWER RULES
Lawmakers in both chambers wrote to the Intelligence Community Inspector General on Monday demanding answers about why his office secretly eliminated a requirement that whistleblower complaints contain first-hand evidence.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-03 4:30 PM



A Politico article that revealed the truth, before the collective liberal media coordinated on their ubiquitous anti-Trump Newspeak narrative:


UKRANIAN EFFORTS TO SABOTAGE TRUMP BACKFIRE
Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.



 Quote:

By KENNETH P. VOGEL and DAVID STERN
01/11/2017


Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services, according to U.S. intelligence officials. They reportedly briefed Trump last week on the possibility that Russian operatives might have compromising information on the president-elect. And at a Senate hearing last week on the hacking, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said “I don't think we've ever encountered a more aggressive or direct campaign to interfere in our election process than we've seen in this case.”

There’s little evidence of such a top-down effort by Ukraine. Longtime observers suggest that the rampant corruption, factionalism and economic struggles plaguing the country — not to mention its ongoing strife with Russia — would render it unable to pull off an ambitious covert interference campaign in another country’s election. And President Petro Poroshenko’s administration, along with the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington, insists that Ukraine stayed neutral in the race.

Yet Politico’s investigation found evidence of Ukrainian government involvement in the race that appears to strain diplomatic protocol dictating that governments refrain from engaging in one another’s elections.

Russia’s meddling has sparked outrage from the American body politic. The U.S. intelligence community undertook the rare move of publicizing its findings on the matter, and President Barack Obama took several steps to officially retaliate, while members of Congress continue pushing for more investigations into the hacking and a harder line against Russia, which was already viewed in Washington as America’s leading foreign adversary.

Ukraine, on the other hand, has traditionally enjoyed strong relations with U.S. administrations. Its officials worry that could change under Trump, whose team has privately expressed sentiments ranging from ambivalence to deep skepticism about Poroshenko’s regime, while sounding unusually friendly notes about Putin’s regime.

Poroshenko is scrambling to alter that dynamic, recently signing a $50,000-a-month contract with a well-connected GOP-linked Washington lobbying firm to set up meetings with U.S. government officials “to strengthen U.S.-Ukrainian relations.”





A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort (pictured) and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort (pictured) and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. | Getty

Revelations about Ukraine’s anti-Trump efforts could further set back those efforts.

“Things seem to be going from bad to worse for Ukraine,” said David A. Merkel, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council who helped oversee U.S. relations with Russia and Ukraine while working in George W. Bush’s State Department and National Security Council.

Merkel, who has served as an election observer in Ukrainian presidential elections dating back to 1993, noted there’s some irony in Ukraine and Russia taking opposite sides in the 2016 presidential race, given that past Ukrainian elections were widely viewed in Washington’s foreign policy community as proxy wars between the U.S. and Russia.

“Now, it seems that a U.S. election may have been seen as a surrogate battle by those in Kiev and Moscow,” Merkel said.

•••

The Ukrainian antipathy for Trump’s team — and alignment with Clinton’s — can be traced back to late 2013. That’s when the country’s president, Viktor Yanukovych, whom Manafort had been advising, abruptly backed out of a European Union pact linked to anti-corruption reforms. Instead, Yanukovych entered into a multibillion-dollar bailout agreement with Russia, sparking protests across Ukraine and prompting Yanukovych to flee the country to Russia under Putin’s protection.

In the ensuing crisis, Russian troops moved into the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, and Manafort dropped off the radar.

Manafort’s work for Yanukovych caught the attention of a veteran Democratic operative named Alexandra Chalupa, who had worked in the White House Office of Public Liaison during the Clinton administration. Chalupa went on to work as a staffer, then as a consultant, for Democratic National Committee. The DNC paid her $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016, according to Federal Election Commission records, though she also was paid by other clients during that time, including Democratic campaigns and the DNC’s arm for engaging expatriate Democrats around the world.

A daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who maintains strong ties to the Ukrainian-American diaspora and the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, Chalupa, a lawyer by training, in 2014 was doing pro bono work for another client interested in the Ukrainian crisis and began researching Manafort’s role in Yanukovych’s rise, as well as his ties to the pro-Russian oligarchs who funded Yanukovych’s political party.

In an interview this month, Chalupa told Politico she had developed a network of sources in Kiev and Washington, including investigative journalists, government officials and private intelligence operatives. While her consulting work at the DNC this past election cycle centered on mobilizing ethnic communities — including Ukrainian-Americans — she said that, when Trump’s unlikely presidential campaign began surging in late 2015, she began focusing more on the research, and expanded it to include Trump’s ties to Russia, as well.

She occasionally shared her findings with officials from the DNC and Clinton’s campaign, Chalupa said. In January 2016 — months before Manafort had taken any role in Trump’s campaign — Chalupa told a senior DNC official that, when it came to Trump’s campaign, “I felt there was a Russia connection,” Chalupa recalled. “And that, if there was, that we can expect Paul Manafort to be involved in this election,” said Chalupa, who at the time also was warning leaders in the Ukrainian-American community that Manafort was “Putin’s political brain for manipulating U.S. foreign policy and elections.”

She said she shared her concern with Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S., Valeriy Chaly, and one of his top aides, Oksana Shulyar, during a March 2016 meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy. According to someone briefed on the meeting, Chaly said that Manafort was very much on his radar, but that he wasn’t particularly concerned about the operative’s ties to Trump since he didn’t believe Trump stood much of a chance of winning the GOP nomination, let alone the presidency.

That was not an uncommon view at the time, and, perhaps as a result, Trump’s ties to Russia — let alone Manafort’s — were not the subject of much attention.
That all started to change just four days after Chalupa’s meeting at the embassy, when it was reported that Trump had in fact hired Manafort, suggesting that Chalupa may have been on to something. She quickly found herself in high demand. The day after Manafort’s hiring was revealed, she briefed the DNC’s communications staff on Manafort, Trump and their ties to Russia, according to an operative familiar with the situation.

A former DNC staffer described the exchange as an “informal conversation,” saying “‘briefing’ makes it sound way too formal,” and adding, “We were not directing or driving her work on this.” Yet, the former DNC staffer and the operative familiar with the situation agreed that with the DNC’s encouragement, Chalupa asked embassy staff to try to arrange an interview in which Poroshenko might discuss Manafort’s ties to Yanukovych.

While the embassy declined that request, officials there became “helpful” in Chalupa’s efforts, she said, explaining that she traded information and leads with them. “If I asked a question, they would provide guidance, or if there was someone I needed to follow up with.” But she stressed, “There were no documents given, nothing like that.”

Chalupa said the embassy also worked directly with reporters researching Trump, Manafort and Russia to point them in the right directions. She added, though, “they were being very protective and not speaking to the press as much as they should have. I think they were being careful because their situation was that they had to be very, very careful because they could not pick sides. It’s a political issue, and they didn’t want to get involved politically because they couldn’t.”

Shulyar vehemently denied working with reporters or with Chalupa on anything related to Trump or Manafort, explaining “we were stormed by many reporters to comment on this subject, but our clear and adamant position was not to give any comment [and] not to interfere into the campaign affairs.”

Both Shulyar and Chalupa said the purpose of their initial meeting was to organize a June reception at the embassy to promote Ukraine. According to the embassy’s website, the event highlighted female Ukrainian leaders, featuring speeches by Ukrainian parliamentarian Hanna Hopko, who discussed “Ukraine’s fight against the Russian aggression in Donbas,” and longtime Hillary Clinton confidante Melanne Verveer, who worked for Clinton in the State Department and was a vocal surrogate during the presidential campaign.

Shulyar said her work with Chalupa “didn’t involve the campaign,” and she specifically stressed that “We have never worked to research and disseminate damaging information about Donald Trump and Paul Manafort.”
But Andrii Telizhenko, who worked as a political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy under Shulyar, said she instructed him to help Chalupa research connections between Trump, Manafort and Russia. “Oksana said that if I had any information, or knew other people who did, then I should contact Chalupa,” recalled Telizhenko, who is now a political consultant in Kiev. “They were coordinating an investigation with the Hillary team on Paul Manafort with Alexandra Chalupa,” he said, adding “Oksana was keeping it all quiet,” but “the embassy worked very closely with” Chalupa.

In fact, sources familiar with the effort say that Shulyar specifically called Telizhenko into a meeting with Chalupa to provide an update on an American media outlet’s ongoing investigation into Manafort.

Telizhenko recalled that Chalupa told him and Shulyar that, “If we can get enough information on Paul [Manafort] or Trump’s involvement with Russia, she can get a hearing in Congress by September.”

Chalupa confirmed that, a week after Manafort’s hiring was announced, she discussed the possibility of a congressional investigation with a foreign policy legislative assistant in the office of Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio), who co-chairs the Congressional Ukrainian Caucus. But, Chalupa said, “It didn’t go anywhere.”

Asked about the effort, the Kaptur legislative assistant called it a “touchy subject” in an internal email to colleagues that was accidentally forwarded to Politico.

Kaptur’s office later emailed an official statement explaining that the lawmaker is backing a bill to create an independent commission to investigate “possible outside interference in our elections.” The office added “at this time, the evidence related to this matter points to Russia, but Congresswoman Kaptur is concerned with any evidence of foreign entities interfering in our elections.”

•••

Almost as quickly as Chalupa’s efforts attracted the attention of the Ukrainian Embassy and Democrats, she also found herself the subject of some unwanted attention from overseas.

Within a few weeks of her initial meeting at the embassy with Shulyar and Chaly, Chalupa on April 20 received the first of what became a series of messages from the administrators of her private Yahoo email account, warning her that “state-sponsored actors” were trying to hack into her emails.

She kept up her crusade, appearing on a panel a week after the initial hacking message to discuss her research on Manafort with a group of Ukrainian investigative journalists gathered at the Library of Congress for a program sponsored by a U.S. congressional agency called the Open World Leadership Center.

Center spokeswoman Maura Shelden stressed that her group is nonpartisan and ensures “that our delegations hear from both sides of the aisle, receiving bipartisan information.” She said the Ukrainian journalists in subsequent days met with Republican officials in North Carolina and elsewhere. And she said that, before the Library of Congress event, “Open World’s program manager for Ukraine did contact Chalupa to advise her that Open World is a nonpartisan agency of the Congress.”
Chalupa, though, indicated in an email that was later hacked and released by WikiLeaks that the Open World Leadership Center “put me on the program to speak specifically about Paul Manafort.”

In the email, which was sent in early May to then-DNC communications director Luis Miranda, Chalupa noted that she had extended an invitation to the Library of Congress forum to veteran Washington investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Two days before the event, he had published a story for Yahoo News revealing the unraveling of a $26 million deal between Manafort and a Russian oligarch related to a telecommunications venture in Ukraine. And Chalupa wrote in the email she’d been “working with for the past few weeks” with Isikoff “and connected him to the Ukrainians” at the event.

Isikoff, who accompanied Chalupa to a reception at the Ukrainian Embassy immediately after the Library of Congress event, declined to comment.

Chalupa further indicated in her hacked May email to the DNC that she had additional sensitive information about Manafort that she intended to share “offline” with Miranda and DNC research director Lauren Dillon, including “a big Trump component you and Lauren need to be aware of that will hit in next few weeks and something I’m working on you should be aware of.” Explaining that she didn’t feel comfortable sharing the intel over email, Chalupa attached a screenshot of a warning from Yahoo administrators about “state-sponsored” hacking on her account, explaining, “Since I started digging into Manafort these messages have been a daily occurrence on my yahoo account despite changing my password often.”

Dillon and Miranda declined to comment.

A DNC official stressed that Chalupa was a consultant paid to do outreach for the party’s political department, not a researcher. She undertook her investigations into Trump, Manafort and Russia on her own, and the party did not incorporate her findings in its dossiers on the subjects, the official said, stressing that the DNC had been building robust research books on Trump and his ties to Russia long before Chalupa began sounding alarms.

Nonetheless, Chalupa’s hacked email reportedly escalated concerns among top party officials, hardening their conclusion that Russia likely was behind the cyber intrusions with which the party was only then beginning to grapple.

Chalupa left the DNC after the Democratic convention in late July to focus fulltime on her research into Manafort, Trump and Russia. She said she provided off-the-record information and guidance to “a lot of journalists” working on stories related to Manafort and Trump’s Russia connections, despite what she described as escalating harassment.

About a month-and-a-half after Chalupa first started receiving hacking alerts, someone broke into her car outside the Northwest Washington home where she lives with her husband and three young daughters, she said. They “rampaged it, basically, but didn’t take anything valuable — left money, sunglasses, $1,200 worth of golf clubs,” she said, explaining she didn’t file a police report after that incident because she didn’t connect it to her research and the hacking.

But by the time a similar vehicle break-in occurred involving two family cars, she was convinced that it was a Russia-linked intimidation campaign. The police report on the latter break-in noted that “both vehicles were unlocked by an unknown person and the interior was ransacked, with papers and the garage openers scattered throughout the cars. Nothing was taken from the vehicles.”

Then, early in the morning on another day, a woman “wearing white flowers in her hair” tried to break into her family’s home at 1:30 a.m., Chalupa said. Shulyar told Chalupa that the mysterious incident bore some of the hallmarks of intimidation campaigns used against foreigners in Russia, according to Chalupa.

“This is something that they do to U.S. diplomats, they do it to Ukrainians. Like, this is how they operate. They break into people’s homes. They harass people. They’re theatrical about it,” Chalupa said. “They must have seen when I was writing to the DNC staff, outlining who Manafort was, pulling articles, saying why it was significant, and painting the bigger picture.”

In a Yahoo News story naming Chalupa as one of 16 “ordinary people” who “shaped the 2016 election,” Isikoff wrote that after Chalupa left the DNC, FBI agents investigating the hacking questioned her and examined her laptop and smartphone.

Chalupa this month told Politico that, as her research and role in the election started becoming more public, she began receiving death threats, along with continued alerts of state-sponsored hacking. But she said, “None of this has scared me off.”

•••

While it’s not uncommon for outside operatives to serve as intermediaries between governments and reporters, one of the more damaging Russia-related stories for the Trump campaign — and certainly for Manafort — can be traced more directly to the Ukrainian government.

Documents released by an independent Ukrainian government agency — and publicized by a parliamentarian — appeared to show $12.7 million in cash payments that were earmarked for Manafort by the Russia-aligned party of the deposed former president, Yanukovych.

The New York Times, in the August story revealing the ledgers’ existence, reported that the payments earmarked for Manafort were “a focus” of an investigation by Ukrainian anti-corruption officials, while CNN reported days later that the FBI was pursuing an overlapping inquiry.

Clinton’s campaign seized on the story to advance Democrats’ argument that Trump’s campaign was closely linked to Russia. The ledger represented “more troubling connections between Donald Trump’s team and pro-Kremlin elements in Ukraine,” Robby Mook, Clinton’s campaign manager, said in a statement. He demanded that Trump “disclose campaign chair Paul Manafort’s and all other campaign employees’ and advisers’ ties to Russian or pro-Kremlin entities, including whether any of Trump’s employees or advisers are currently representing and or being paid by them.”

former Ukrainian investigative journalist and current parliamentarian named Serhiy Leshchenko, who was elected in 2014 as part of Poroshenko’s party, held a news conference to highlight the ledgers, and to urge Ukrainian and American law enforcement to aggressively investigate Manafort.

“I believe and understand the basis of these payments are totally against the law — we have the proof from these books,” Leshchenko said during the news conference, which attracted international media coverage. “If Mr. Manafort denies any allegations, I think he has to be interrogated into this case and prove his position that he was not involved in any misconduct on the territory of Ukraine,” Leshchenko added.

Manafort denied receiving any off-books cash from Yanukovych’s Party of Regions, and said that he had never been contacted about the ledger by Ukrainian or American investigators, later telling POLITICO “I was just caught in the crossfire.”

According to a series of memos reportedly compiled for Trump’s opponents by a former British intelligence agent, Yanukovych, in a secret meeting with Putin on the day after the Times published its report, admitted that he had authorized “substantial kickback payments to Manafort.” But according to the report, which was published Tuesday by BuzzFeed but remains unverified. Yanukovych assured Putin “that there was no documentary trail left behind which could provide clear evidence of this” — an alleged statement that seemed to implicitly question the authenticity of the ledger.

The scrutiny around the ledgers — combined with that from other stories about his Ukraine work — proved too much, and he stepped down from the Trump campaign less than a week after the Times story.

At the time, Leshchenko suggested that his motivation was partly to undermine Trump. “For me, it was important to show not only the corruption aspect, but that he is [a] pro-Russian candidate who can break the geopolitical balance in the world,” Leshchenko told the Financial Times about two weeks after his news conference. The newspaper noted that Trump’s candidacy had spurred “Kiev’s wider political leadership to do something they would never have attempted before: intervene, however indirectly, in a U.S. election,” and the story quoted Leshchenko asserting that the majority of Ukraine’s politicians are “on Hillary Clinton’s side.”

But by this month, Leshchenko was seeking to recast his motivation, telling Politico, “I didn’t care who won the U.S. elections. This was a decision for the American voters to decide.” His goal in highlighting the ledgers, he said was “to raise these issues on a political level and emphasize the importance of the investigation.”

In a series of answers provided to Politico, a spokesman for Poroshenko distanced his administration from both Leshchenko’s efforts and those of the agency that reLeshchenko Leshchenko leased the ledgers, The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine. It was created in 2014 as a condition for Ukraine to receive aid from the U.S. and the European Union, and it signed an evidence-sharing agreement with the FBI in late June — less than a month and a half before it released the ledgers.

The bureau is “fully independent,” the Poroshenko spokesman said, adding that when it came to the presidential administration there was “no targeted action against Manafort.” He added “as to Serhiy Leshchenko, he positions himself as a representative of internal opposition in the Bloc of Petro Poroshenko’s faction, despite [the fact that] he belongs to the faction,” the spokesman said, adding, “it was about him personally who pushed [the anti-corruption bureau] to proceed with investigation on Manafort.”

But an operative who has worked extensively in Ukraine, including as an adviser to Poroshenko, said it was highly unlikely that either Leshchenko or the anti-corruption bureau would have pushed the issue without at least tacit approval from Poroshenko or his closest allies.

“It was something that Poroshenko was probably aware of and could have stopped if he wanted to,” said the operative.

And, almost immediately after Trump’s stunning victory over Clinton, questions began mounting about the investigations into the ledgers — and the ledgers themselves.

An official with the anti-corruption bureau told a Ukrainian newspaper, “Mr. Manafort does not have a role in this case.”

And, while the anti-corruption bureau told Politico late last month that a “general investigation [is] still ongoing” of the ledger, it said Manafort is not a target of the investigation. “As he is not the Ukrainian citizen, [the anti-corruption bureau] by the law couldn’t investigate him personally,” the bureau said in a statement.

Some Poroshenko critics have gone further, suggesting that the bureau is backing away from investigating because the ledgers might have been doctored or even forged.

Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a Ukrainian former diplomat who served as the country’s head of security under Poroshenko but is now affiliated with a leading opponent of Poroshenko, said it was fishy that “only one part of the black ledger appeared.” He asked, “Where is the handwriting analysis?” and said it was “crazy” to announce an investigation based on the ledgers. He met last month in Washington with Trump allies, and said, “of course they all recognize that our [anti-corruption bureau] intervened in the presidential campaign.”

And in an interview this week, Manafort, who re-emerged as an informal advisor to Trump after Election Day, suggested that the ledgers were inauthentic and called their publication “a politically motivated false attack on me. My role as a paid consultant was public. There was nothing off the books, but the way that this was presented tried to make it look shady.”

He added that he felt particularly wronged by efforts to cast his work in Ukraine as pro-Russian, arguing “all my efforts were focused on helping Ukraine move into Europe and the West.” He specifically cited his work on denuclearizing the country and on the European Union trade and political pact that Yanukovych spurned before fleeing to Russia. “In no case was I ever involved in anything that would be contrary to U.S. interests,” Manafort said.

Yet Russia seemed to come to the defense of Manafort and Trump last month, when a spokeswoman for Russia’s Foreign Ministry charged that the Ukrainian government used the ledgers as a political weapon.

“Ukraine seriously complicated the work of Trump’s election campaign headquarters by planting information according to which Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign chairman, allegedly accepted money from Ukrainian oligarchs,” Maria Zakharova said at a news briefing, according to a transcript of her remarks posted on the Foreign Ministry’s website. “All of you have heard this remarkable story,” she told assembled reporters.

•••

Beyond any efforts to sabotage Trump, Ukrainian officials didn’t exactly extend a hand of friendship to the GOP nominee during the campaign.

The ambassador, Chaly, penned an op-ed for The Hill, in which he chastised Trump for a confusing series of statements in which the GOP candidate at one point expressed a willingness to consider recognizing Russia’s annexation of the Ukrainian territory of Crimea as legitimate. The op-ed made some in the embassy uneasy, sources said.

“That was like too close for comfort, even for them,” said Chalupa. “That was something that was as risky as they were going to be.”

Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk warned on Facebook that Trump had “challenged the very values of the free world.”

Ukraine’s minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, piled on, trashing Trump on Twitter in July as a “clown” and asserting that Trump is “an even bigger danger to the US than terrorism.”

Avakov, in a Facebook post, lashed out at Trump for his confusing Crimea comments, calling the assessment the “diagnosis of a dangerous misfit,” according to a translated screenshot featured in one media report, though he later deleted the post. He called Trump “dangerous for Ukraine and the US” and noted that Manafort worked with Yanukovych when the former Ukrainian leader “fled to Russia through Crimea. Where would Manafort lead Trump?”

The Trump-Ukraine relationship grew even more fraught in September with reports that the GOP nominee had snubbed Poroshenko on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, where the Ukrainian president tried to meet both major party candidates, but scored only a meeting with Clinton.

Telizhenko, the former embassy staffer, said that, during the primaries, Chaly, the country’s ambassador in Washington, had actually instructed the embassy not to reach out to Trump’s campaign, even as it was engaging with those of Clinton and Trump’s leading GOP rival, Ted Cruz.

“We had an order not to talk to the Trump team, because he was critical of Ukraine and the government and his critical position on Crimea and the conflict,” said Telizhenko. “I was yelled at when I proposed to talk to Trump,” he said, adding, “The ambassador said not to get involved — Hillary is going to win.”

This account was confirmed by Nalyvaichenko, the former diplomat and security chief now affiliated with a Poroshenko opponent, who said, “The Ukrainian authorities closed all doors and windows — this is from the Ukrainian side.” He called the strategy “bad and short-sighted.”

Andriy Artemenko, a Ukrainian parliamentarian associated with a conservative opposition party, did meet with Trump’s team during the campaign and said he personally offered to set up similar meetings for Chaly but was rebuffed.

“It was clear that they were supporting Hillary Clinton’s candidacy,” Artemenko said. “They did everything from organizing meetings with the Clinton team, to publicly supporting her, to criticizing Trump. … I think that they simply didn’t meet because they thought that Hillary would win.”

Shulyar rejected the characterizations that the embassy had a ban on interacting with Trump, instead explaining that it “had different diplomats assigned for dealing with different teams tailoring the content and messaging. So it was not an instruction to abstain from the engagement but rather an internal discipline for diplomats not to get involved into a field she or he was not assigned to, but where another colleague was involved.”

And she pointed out that Chaly traveled to the GOP convention in Cleveland in late July and met with members of Trump’s foreign policy team “to highlight the importance of Ukraine and the support of it by the U.S.”
Despite the outreach, Trump’s campaign in Cleveland gutted a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that called for the U.S. to provide “lethal defensive weapons” for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian incursion, backers of the measure charged.

The outreach ramped up after Trump’s victory. Shulyar pointed out that Poroshenko was among the first foreign leaders to call to congratulate Trump. And she said that, since Election Day, Chaly has met with close Trump allies, including Sens. Jeff Sessions, Trump’s nominee for attorney general, and Bob Corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, while the ambassador accompanied Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze, Ukraine’s vice prime minister for European and Euro-Atlantic integration, to a round of Washington meetings with Rep. Tom Marino (R-Pa.), an early Trump backer, and Jim DeMint, president of The Heritage Foundation, which played a prominent role in Trump’s transition.

•••

Many Ukrainian officials and operatives and their American allies see Trump’s inauguration this month as an existential threat to the country, made worse, they admit, by the dissemination of the secret ledger, the antagonistic social media posts and the perception that the embassy meddled against — or at least shut out — Trump.

“It’s really bad. The [Poroshenko] administration right now is trying to re-coordinate communications,” said Telizhenko, adding, “The Trump organization doesn’t want to talk to our administration at all.”

During Nalyvaichenko’s trip to Washington last month, he detected lingering ill will toward Ukraine from some, and lack of interest from others, he recalled. “Ukraine is not on the top of the list, not even the middle,” he said.

Poroshenko’s allies are scrambling to figure out how to build a relationship with Trump, who is known for harboring and prosecuting grudges for years.

A delegation of Ukrainian parliamentarians allied with Poroshenko last month traveled to Washington partly to try to make inroads with the Trump transition team, but they were unable to secure a meeting, according to a Washington foreign policy operative familiar with the trip. And operatives in Washington and Kiev say that after the election, Poroshenko met in Kiev with top executives from the Washington lobbying firm BGR — including Ed Rogers and Lester Munson — about how to navigate the Trump regime.

Weeks later, BGR reported to the Department of Justice that the government of Ukraine would pay the firm $50,000 a month to “provide strategic public relations and government affairs counsel,” including “outreach to U.S. government officials, non-government organizations, members of the media and other individuals.”

Firm spokesman Jeffrey Birnbaum suggested that “pro-Putin oligarchs” were already trying to sow doubts about BGR’s work with Poroshenko. While the firm maintains close relationships with GOP congressional leaders, several of its principals were dismissive or sharply critical of Trump during the GOP primary, which could limit their effectiveness lobbying the new administration.

The Poroshenko regime’s standing with Trump is considered so dire that the president’s allies after the election actually reached out to make amends with — and even seek assistance from — Manafort, according to two operatives familiar with Ukraine’s efforts to make inroads with Trump.

Meanwhile, Poroshenko’s rivals are seeking to capitalize on his dicey relationship with Trump’s team. Some are pressuring him to replace Chaly, a close ally of Poroshenko’s who is being blamed by critics in Kiev and Washington for implementing — if not engineering — the country’s anti-Trump efforts, according to Ukrainian and U.S. politicians and operatives interviewed for this story. They say that several potential Poroshenko opponents have been through Washington since the election seeking audiences of their own with Trump allies, though most have failed to do do so.

“None of the Ukrainians have any access to Trump — they are all desperate to get it, and are willing to pay big for it,” said one American consultant whose company recently met in Washington with Yuriy Boyko, a former vice prime minister under Yanukovych. Boyko, who like Yanukovych has a pro-Russian worldview, is considering a presidential campaign of his own, and his representatives offered “to pay a shit-ton of money” to get access to Trump and his inaugural events, according to the consultant.

The consultant turned down the work, explaining, “It sounded shady, and we don’t want to get in the middle of that kind of stuff.”



I know it's long, but it's there if you want it. A lot of interesting details. Although it's from Jan 2017, just before Trump was inaugurated.
James Clapper turned out to be one of the Deep State conspirators.
Michael Isikoff is a liberal reporter (connected to David Corn and Slate) whose "article" on the Russia Dossier was used by Comey, McCabe and others at FBI/DOJ to falsify "confirming" external evidence, to falsify envidence to FISA judges for >>>four<<< falsely obtained FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page, and through monitoring Page, to spy on the entire Trump organization. The fact that that the FISA judges have never come forward to object, to express outrage that they issued warrants based on falsified evidence (a federal crime), for these FISA judges to not rescind the warrants and throw out the evidence as fruit of the poisoned tree, inclines me to believe they are Hillary 2016 voters, and are loyal soldiers of the Deep State as well.

But this was the beginning of the story starting to unravel, despite the liberal media's best efforts to silence it.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Deep_state_coup


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-03 4:52 PM


An aspect I hadn't thought of until I read John Solomon's article, is that when Joseph Biden got Shokin fired in March 2016, is that it wasn't just about protecting his son and their joint Burisma Holdings profits, but also ending an investigation of the Bidens to eliminate possible scandal for Hillary Clinton during the most important months of the 2016 campaign.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-03 5:32 PM


Schiff committee's reported contact with whistleblower a 'gift' to Trump, Tom Bevan says


 Quote:
President Trump may consider reported contact between the Ukraine whistleblower and Rep. Adam Schiff's, D-Calif., House Intelligence Committee as free reign to disparage the impeachment inquiry, according to Tom Bevan.
Schiff also appears to have not been completely forthright about said contact with the whistleblower in the past, the Real Clear Politics co-founder claimed Wednesday on "Special Report."

"This is a gift to Trump," he said.

"As everybody's racing to try and frame the narrative, this is a gift to Donald Trump in the sense that he can now muddy the waters and say 'look, this was a setup -- this was a fraud -- this is a hoax'."
Already, the president has called the impeachment inquiry over his transcribed phone call with Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky a "hoax" and earlier Wednesday called Schiff a "fraud."

spokesman for House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., had acknowledged for the first time on Wednesday that the whistleblower alleging misconduct in the White House had reached out to Schiff's panel before filing a complaint -- prompting President Trump, in an extraordinary afternoon news conference at the White House, to accuse Schiff directly of helping write the document.

Schiff had previously claimed in a televised interview that "we have not spoken directly with the whistleblower." A Schiff spokesperson seemingly narrowed that claim late Wednesday, telling Fox News that Schiff himself "does not know the identity of the whistleblower, and has not met with or spoken with the whistleblower or their counsel" for any reason.

"It shows that Schiff is a fraud. ... I think it's a scandal that he knew before," Trump said, as Finnish President Sauli Niinisto stood at an adjacent podium. "I'd go a step further. I'd say he probably helped write it. ... That's a big story. He knew long before, and he helped write it too. It's a scam."

On "Special Report," Bevan called the report "valuable" and also discussed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's apparent reticence to schedule a formal floor vote on impeachment.
He said Pelosi, D-Calif., has afforded herself maximum flexibility in that without the vote, her committees can issue subpoenas but the minority -- Republicans -- cannot petition for them.
On the flip side, he said, Republicans can tag the inquiry as mostly political because the San Francisco lawmaker [Pelosi] has not taken the formal step of making it a "serious inquiry."



Schiff alleged that if the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) had not informed him of the whistleblower complaint, Schiff would not have known about it.
That turns out to be another lie, and a big one.

That the whistleblower first came to Schiff's office for advice on how to construct and submit the complaint, and Schiff or his office told them who to obtain as legal counsel, and as it continues to unwind, how to construct the allegation for maximum damage on Trump.

This is an outrageous cartoon of actual legality, that urinates on rule of law. There are already calls for Schiff's resignation from the Judiciary committee, and to resign his House seat as well. As the extent of his dishonesty unfolds, I expect those calls to grow. He is a participant of the coup against Trump, which makes laughable the notion that he can sit as a neutral judge of the whistleblower evidence as head of the House Judicial Committee. He is a participant, and a partisan.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-04 2:40 PM
I understand why you want to focus on that type of stuff instead of Trump asking a foreign government a favor of trying to dig up dirt on his political rival but the phone call transcript that was released was damming. The texts I read from the diplomats make clear that Trump was tying aid on the condition of Zelensky investigating Biden. I think republicans in office are going to have a hard time if they try to justify Trump's criminal ways on this one.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-04 6:16 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I understand why you want to focus on that type of stuff instead of Trump asking a foreign government a favor of trying to dig up dirt on his political rival but the phone call transcript that was released was damming. The texts I read from the diplomats make clear that Trump was tying aid on the condition of Zelensky investigating Biden. I think republicans in office are going to have a hard time if they try to justify Trump's criminal ways on this one.



Can you truly be that willfully ignorant, M E M?
WAY before this allegation was ever revealed, your party has been seeking to undo the election result from at least the moment Trump won the election.
And the irregularities and suspicious twistings of the rules (the whistleblower report changes made just before they were used the very first time to accuse Trump, and no one is explaining or taking credit for how those rule changes occurred, and filed by an unnamed CIA agent inside the White House spying on the president in an agency that isn't supposed to spy on U.S. citizens, but he is, the president no less, and filing a whistleblower report that was clearly assembled by a think-tank of far-left lawyers by some Soros-funded group, clearly not written by the CIA agent his/her self. And an agent who clearly is a Hillary Clinton voter and a supporter of one of the 2020 Democrats, with a clear animus toward President Trump. On and on, the suspicious irregularities. This is so clearly a set-up to launch another coup, to depose Trump by illicit means, under the merest pseudo-appearance of legality.

Last night on Hannity I watched a 3-year montage of liberal-media news clips (courtesy of Media Research Center) that showed literally every single month since the election night 2016 Democrats and the liberal media have gleefully leaped on every half-baked contrivance as the basis for moving for impeachment of Trump. "This time for sure! No really, we really have him this time!" Well... No, not really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8AsX9DUyOg
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/bil...n-predate-trump
Literally.
EVERY single month, with news clips from each month, with different attempted contrivances every month. EVERY. SINGLE. MONTH.
There is less to rationalize an impeachment than there was to impeach Bill Clinton, and you know how that went for the Republicans.

As soon as Nancy Pelosi announced her little "inquiry to pursue possible impeachment", in that 3 days the Trump campaign raised 150 million dollars. In 3 days. Biden's campaign took 3 months to raise a sum close to that.

This is not "the law" or "justice", this is a Democrat Bolshevik party abusing their power to impeach the president based on nothing other than their having a House majority, just because they can, to impeach an innocent man, just to score a political victory. These Democrats are digging their own political graves. And further splintering the nation along political lines in the process.

It absolutely terrifies me that these maniacs could ever regain power. It would be the Frech Revolution and the Reign of Terror all over again. Your party is lawless, filled with hatred, and utterly insane.


Here's a roster of the Congreessmen supporting and opposing the impeachment vote.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/us/politics/trump-impeachment-congress-list.html
I was disappointed to see not one Florida Democrat, including RINO convert Charlie Crist, opposed it. I will vote accordingly in November 2020.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-05 2:30 AM
Even it were true that democrats wanted to impeach Trump from day 1, that isn't a defense for Trump withholding aid while asking a foreign power to investigate his political rival. You nor the GOP would never tolerate a democrat president acting in such an obvious corrupt fashion like Trump did with another country.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-05 11:55 PM
Its evident that foreign aid was used to ensure Trump's main biggest political rival was investigated by a foreign country.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-06 7:49 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Its evident that foreign aid was used to ensure Trump's main biggest political rival was investigated by a foreign country.



It's evident that Biden and his son did something majorly wrong, and the Democrat-compliant media and deep state are doing their damnedest to create a false narrative to damage or impeach Trump.

EVERYTHING that Trump is accused of doing is EXACTLY what Biden has done. And further, that Democrat Senators Menendez, Durbin and Leahy sent a clearly threatening letter to Ukraine that aid was directly dependent on their cooperation, even as they and other Democrats strain to allege Trump is guilty of doing so on pure conjecture, with no facts in evidence.

The infuriating part, for 3 years and counting, is that Demcorats falsely accuse Trump at every turn of wild stuff. And ironically, when their side is guilty of exactly those things, Democrat leadership and the lapdog liberal media consider it intolerable to consider investigating or even discussing the far more evident corruption and intimidation by Democrats.

I was watching Media Buzz this morning, and they cited that despite the incredible conflicts of interest by Adam Schiff this week (first, maaking up a false statement by Donald Trump of his conversation with the Ukranian president, then a few days later it was revealed that Sciff lied and said he didn't talk in advance to the whistleblower, when in fact his office was the first place the whistleblower talked to, that Schiff's office selected the anonymous person''s law office and helped him sculpt the whistleblower/leaker to do maximum damage to Trump). And that none of the liberal networks gave any coverage whatsoever to the story, only Fox covered it. That is some incredible selective omission.

Trump had 94% Republican voter support going into this, more than any other president, and this partisan smear job has only increased and galvanized his support. This is aalready blowing up in the Dems' faces. Independent voters as well see this is a hit job on the president.

It's a hail-Mary pass by the Democrats, knowing it's the only possibility they could win in 2020, and they've fumbled even this ball.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-06 7:51 PM



READ THE SHAKEDOWN LETTER 3 DEMOCRAT SENATORS SENT TO THE UKRANIAN PROSECUTOR
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-06 8:03 PM




DEMOCRATS' DOUBLE-STANDARD ON UKRAINE




WASHINGTON POST AWARDS REP. ADAM SCHIFF FOUR PINNOCHIOS FOR FALSE COMMENTS ABOUT WHISTLEBLOWER



Despite an attempted media black-out on the truth, a few specks of light are shining through. Despite that most of the media only want to report a lying narrative that helps the Democrats and damages Trump. But the facts are slowly coming out regardless.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-06 9:18 PM



The Democrats and deep state showed their hand early, on Jan 3 2017, even before Trump was inaugurated. With Sen. Chuck Schumer's saying the intelligence community bureaucrats have "six ways from Sunday to get back at you" if you resist them and don't follow the status quo corruption they thrive in.


Tucker Carlson: Trump refused to bow to intelligence agencies , 10-3-2019



And they've been orchestrating and lobbing bombs at Trump from the shadows of the FBI/CIA/DNI intelligence field ever since.
That this latest anonymous "whistleblower" attempt is just the latest incoming.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-06 9:31 PM
Did you read what the Trump appointed diplomats were texting? I know you would be screaming if Obama had tried something like this. I certainly could be wrong but I think what is already uncovered proves Trump was holding foreign aid to push a foreign government to try and find dirt on his biggest political rival. Trump screaming impeachment at any republican that doesn't try to protect his fat, lying, treasonous ass may become a regular occurrence as hard reality of what he's done forces the GOP to do more than push talking points.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-09 4:21 AM
Support for impeachment continues to grow for Trump. Today he barred a diplomat for giving testimony. After reading the texts I can see why.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-09 5:27 PM


Here's a lengthy Glenn Beck chalkboard breakdown of all the connections to the corruption in Ukraine and Obama/Hillary/The Democrats, from February 2014 forward, with a bit of Beck-style humor.

UKRAINE SCANDAL EXPLAINED: Chalkboard on DNC Collusion, Joe Biden, Soros, Trump & More


Back when Beck was on CNN Headline News (before he went to Fox in 2009-2010) Beck injected a lot of humor in this style into his serious commentary, more akin to Jon Stewart's show.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-09 5:41 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Support for impeachment continues to grow for Trump. Today he barred a diplomat for giving testimony. After reading the texts I can see why.



Are you unaware of the true facts, M E M?

The support for a Trump impeachment has gone down from a week ago, not up.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3643

 Quote:
After another week with impeachment in the news, registered voters nationwide are still divided on impeaching and removing President Trump from office, with 45 percent saying he should be impeached and removed and 49 percent opposing the idea, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. This compares to last week's poll, in which voters were evenly split on impeaching and removing the president 47 - 47 percent. In a poll released on September 25, before any major news about impeachment, voters were clearly against impeachment 37 - 57 percent.

While nearly half of voters do not currently back impeachment, a majority of voters do still approve 53 - 43 percent of the impeachment inquiry being conducted by the U.S. House of Representatives in order to determine whether or not to bring impeachment charges against the president. A week ago, voters approved of the inquiry 52 - 45 percent.

After another week with impeachment in the news, registered voters nationwide are still divided on impeaching and removing President Trump from office, with 45 percent saying he should be impeached and removed and 49 percent opposing the idea, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today. This compares to last week's poll, in which voters were evenly split on impeaching and removing the president 47 - 47 percent. In a poll released on September 25, before any major news about impeachment, voters were clearly against impeachment 37 - 57 percent.

While nearly half of voters do not currently back impeachment, a majority of voters do still approve 53 - 43 percent of the impeachment inquiry being conducted by the U.S. House of Representatives in order to determine whether or not to bring impeachment charges against the president. A week ago, voters approved of the inquiry 52 - 45 percent.


45% support an impeachment inquiry (not necessarily actual impeachment).
49% oppose it.

An overwhelming majority of both Republicans and independent voters oppose it. (When calling for actual impeachment, vs just an inquiry for potential impeachment.)

And I would lay money that a majority of Democrats support impeachment not because they think Trump is actually guilty of anything, but simply as a weapon to depose a Republican. And even if the Democrats, breaking every constitutional rule of fairness and process, were actually able to get the House majority vote needed to pass impeachment, that legislation would be dead on arrival as soon as it got to the Senate.

The Democrat actions in the House are unfair and don't even allow Republicans to summon witnesses for hearings, or otherwise investigate. And every week that goes by, as more details surface of the malicious abuse of the process on the Democrat side, voters are more aware of that.
The Democrat push for impeachment is waning in popularity, not rising, as the Democrats' partisan viciousness and unfairness in these "inquiry" pseudo-impeachment Democrat committee posturings, avoiding a push in the House for an actual investigation, become increasingly clear.

Without the lying propaganda and selective omission of the true facts by the liberal media, there would be no support for impeachment at all.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-09 6:11 PM


Steve Hilton: The truth about impeachment , Sunday, Oct 6, 2019



Steve Hilton a former advisor to David Cameron inthe British government, on last Sunday's The Next Revolution program, navigates through the lying narrative of the Democrats, and explains the omitted facts.

This is yet another ruse by the Democrats, to de-legitimize and depose Trump, or (Plan B) to sacrifice Biden while taking Trump out to get rid of both of them. But the Democrats' and liberal media's collaborative lying narrative is already crumbling.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-10 4:34 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Support for impeachment continues to grow for Trump. Today he barred a diplomat for giving testimony. After reading the texts I can see why.



Are you unaware of the true factss, M E M?

The support for a Trump impeachment has gone down from a week ago, not up.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3643

 Quote:
After another week with impeachment in the news, registered voters nationwide are still divided on impeaching and removing President Trump from office, with 45 percent saying he should be impeached and removed and 49 percent opposing the idea, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today. This compares to last week's poll, in which voters were evenly split on impeaching and removing the president 47 - 47 percent. In a poll released on September 25, before any major news about impeachment, voters were clearly against impeachment 37 - 57 percent.

While nearly half of voters do not currently back impeachment, a majority of voters do still approve 53 - 43 percent of the impeachment inquiry being conducted by the U.S. House of Representatives in order to determine whether or not to bring impeachment charges against the president. A week ago, voters approved of the inquiry 52 - 45 percent.

After another week with impeachment in the news, registered voters nationwide are still divided on impeaching and removing President Trump from office, with 45 percent saying he should be impeached and removed and 49 percent opposing the idea, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today. This compares to last week's poll, in which voters were evenly split on impeaching and removing the president 47 - 47 percent. In a poll released on September 25, before any major news about impeachment, voters were clearly against impeachment 37 - 57 percent.

While nearly half of voters do not currently back impeachment, a majority of voters do still approve 53 - 43 percent of the impeachment inquiry being conducted by the U.S. House of Representatives in order to determine whether or not to bring impeachment charges against the president. A week ago, voters approved of the inquiry 52 - 45 percent.


45% support an impeachment inquiry (not necessarily actual impeachment).
49% oppose it.

An overwhelming majority of both Republicans and independent voters oppose it. (When calling for actual impeachment, vs just an inquiry for potential impeachment.)

And I would lay money that a majority of Democrats support impeachment not because they think Trump is actually guilty of anything, but simply as a weapon to depose a Republican. And even if the Democrats, breaking every constitutional rule of fairness and process, were actually able to get the House majority vote needed to pass impeachment, that legislation would be dead on arrival as soon as it got to the Senate.

The Democrat actions in the House are unfair and don't even allow Republicans to summon witnesses for hearings, or otherwise investigate. And every week that goes by, as more details surface of the malicious abuse of the process on the Democrat side, voters are more aware of that.
The Democrat push for impeachment is waning in popularity, not rising, as the Democrats' partisan viciousness and unfairness in these "inquiry" pseudo-impeachment Democrat committee posturings, avoiding a push in the House for an actual investigation, become increasingly clear.

Without the lying propaganda and selective omission of the true facts by the liberal media, there would be no support for impeachment at all.



Actually the poll you cite shows 53 percent support an impeachment inquiry not 45 percent. That 45 percent is already for impeachment. The House has a constitutional right to have this impeachment inquiry. Trump abused his office by asking a foreign government for the favor of investigating his political rival. Would you honestly be okay if Obama had done that? I don't think so but if you have an argument otherwise please share.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-10 4:53 AM
In other impeachment news Trump gave up any pretense of cooperation with the inquiry and is blocking witnesses from speaking. That's what guilty people do when the facts are not on their side. I would have thought he would have wanted his big donor testify today though but apparently even that guy was seen as doing damage.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-10 8:39 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
In other impeachment news Trump gave up any pretense of cooperation with the inquiry and is blocking witnesses from speaking. That's what guilty people do when the facts are not on their side. I would have thought he would have wanted his big donor testify today though but apparently even that guy was seen as doing damage.



You didn't read it correctly. It shows support for impeachment went down from 47% from a week ago, to 45%.

It shows that public support for a House inquiry to explore what the facts are has gone up from 52% to 53%.
The problem is that despite the facts are exonerating Trump and showing the Democrats' deceitful tactics, 90% of the media are selectively omitting those facts and propagandizing against Trump and for the Democrats.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-10 8:49 AM



 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
In other impeachment news Trump gave up any pretense of cooperation with the inquiry and is blocking witnesses from speaking. That's what guilty people do when the facts are not on their side. I would have thought he would have wanted his big donor testify today though but apparently even that guy was seen as doing damage.



Trump (in the form of a letter from white house attorney Pat Cippolone, has said until Democrats follow the law and give Trump and the Republicans the same rights and subpoena power to call witnesses, the White House will not cooperate.
Because as it stands, the Democratss have set up a Soviet-style kangaroo court. Rep Jim Jorndan (R-OH) used that exact phrase.

Democrats, by not doing an actual inquiry and call for a vote for impeachment, sets it up so Democrats can call control investigation and call witnesses for testimony, but the Republicans cannot! Is that fair? Until that changes, Trump and the Republicans are absolutely right not to participate or cooperate. That is NOT how impeachment went with Richard Nixon, or how it went with Bill Clinton. Both these previous presidents had a right to defend themselves.

Lauraa Igrhaham covered it well last night, along with well known lawyers Joe Digenova and Rudy Giuliani:


The Ingraham Angle 10/9/19 [2AM] | Breaking Fox News October 9, 2019




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-10 10:08 AM



Another more recent poll from Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-record-support-for-trump-impeachment

Showing that many want Trump impeached for other reasons, and that even among Democrats, many don't think the Ukranian phone call warrants impeachment.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-10 10:44 PM


Tucker Carlson had another exceptional show last night. His opening editorial discusses the hypocrisy of the Democrats on sexual predators that they protect among their own, like Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton and Hearvey Weinstein, and how both Hillary Clinton, the broader DNC and NBC protected Harvey Weinstein, and suppressed the truth about Weinstein, and Ronan Farrow who did good journalism on Weinstein was completely unable to report that story for NBC as they covered for Weinstein, on Hillary Clinton's orders, and Farrow had to go to another publication to report it, where it won a pulitzer prize.

About mid way into the show, Carlson intviewed an actual whistleblower, John Kiriakou, a former CIA agent who gave the first on-the-record statement about waterboarding Al Qaida prisoners, for which he was ostracized, and spent about 3 years in federal prison, for his courage coming forward. CNN and MSNBC called him a "CIA leaker" and not a whisleblower.
And when he was in federal prison, it was not country club prison in 2012-2014, it was in general population, despite what he was promised. Interesting also that it was Mueller, Comey, and even Peter Strzok who turned the screws on him.
And the current so called "whistle-blower"'s lawyer, Zaid, is heavily connected to the CIA and even still has a security clearance. In Kiriakou's words, is anything but an iconoclastic whistleblower. Just another cog in the deep state machine, very well connected, that further proves this is just part of a larger plot aagaainst Trump. As if all the other irregularities didn't already make that clear, such as a CIA leadership change to the whistleblower report right before it was used on Trump, but no one takes credit for the change.

Then more on the Bidens in Ukraine and elsewhere, in more corrupt financial dealings, likewise protected by the Democrat political machine.


Tucker Carlson Tonight, October 9, 2019




Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-11 2:27 AM
At some point I think you have to place the blame on Trump. Nobody forced him to call Ukrain and ask them as a favor to investigate his biggest political rival while withholding for aid money. If that was a rough transcript of Obama doing that you and Tucker would be screaming Impeach in unison with a ton of other partisans. Please correct me though if I'm wrong.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-11 10:49 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
At some point I think you have to place the blame on Trump. Nobody forced him to call Ukrain and ask them as a favor to investigate his biggest political rival while withholding for aid money. If that was a rough transcript of Obama doing that you and Tucker would be screaming Impeach in unison with a ton of other partisans. Please correct me though if I'm wrong.


Jesus God!

Trump almost immediately released the ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT of the call he made to the president of Ukraine! I've posted links above to both the transcript, and to the whistleblower's letter! Beyond Democrat malicious and deliberate misrepresentation, WHAT IS THERE FOR TRUMP TO HAVE ALLEGEDLY HIDDEN?
No other president has ever been as willing to not hide behind presidential privelege, to be availaable for interviews and press conferences.
As contrasted with Joseph Biden who hid for close to a week and wouldn't answer questions. Hunter Biden has been the subject of controversy for over 3 weeks now, and has NEVER come forward for a single press conference or interview, no one even knows where he is! Where is the curiosity of Democrats and the liberal Newspeak media about THAT?!?

The only ambiguous phrase in the Trump/Ukraine phone call is where Trump during the call said to the Ukranian president "Hey, do me a favor...", which is a phrase Trump commonly uses with colleagues, and even (as only reported on Fox News of the major networks) has used that many times to audiences at his rallies. But there is absolutely no evidence of a "quid pro quo" arrangement or threats or intimidation of the Ukranian president.
While Trump had withheld some aid to Ukraine, the Ukrainian president was completely unaware of the delay in aid, and only became aware of it 30 days after their conversation, >>AFTER<< the aid was already resumed, and it was delayed to assure that it was not being used for corrupt purposes, not for any negotiating leverage with Ukraaine for Biden records. If Trump had been trying to intimidate or Leverage Zelenskyy in their TRANSCRIBED AND RELEASED conversation, it would have been in the released notes of the call.

In point of fact, the Ukranian government has for the last 3 years attempted to report information and documents on Biden/Burisma and 2016 election meddling to (pro Obama/pro-Hillary Deep State) FBI and DOJ, and the Ukranians in those years have been completely ignored by FBI and DOJ who corruptly avoid investigating what the Ukranians have freely offered FBI and DOJ, FOR YEARS.
Far from the intimidation and leverage that Democrats falsely allege Trump has used to pry those records from Ukraine. What is clearly in the text is Trump saying you can send us those records again, and under new FBI/DOJ management those records will not be ignored as they were in the past.

And finally, it was made crystal clear, CRYSTAL, by the Ukranian president Zelenskyy, REPEATEDLY, that the call between Trump and Zelenskyy was very friendly and with no threats or intimidation. And the released transcription of their conversation certainly backs that up.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-11 1:25 PM
Trump said do me a favor because he was completely asking for one. He specifically asks Zelensky to investigate his biggest political rival. Like I said you would never tolerate that from a democratic president. Zelensky may not have known it was being delayed by Trump himself but he certainly knew the aid hadn't arrived yet. And you ignore that there isn't just Trump asking a foreign government to specifically investigate his political rival. There are also diplomats texting about quid pro quo's. Trump has his personal lawyer down there. And now it's okay not to ignore the House's legal and oversight duties? Trump crossed line just by asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival but it looks like there's even worse corruption yet to be exposed.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-11 3:10 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Trump said do me a favor because he was completely asking for one. He specifically asks Zelensky to investigate his biggest political rival. Like I said you would never tolerate that from a democratic president. Zelensky may not have known it was being delayed by Trump himself but he certainly knew the aid hadn't arrived yet. And you ignore that there isn't just Trump asking a foreign government to specifically investigate his political rival. There are also diplomats texting about quid pro quo's. Trump has his personal lawyer down there. And now it's okay not to ignore the House's legal and oversight duties? Trump crossed line just by asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival but it looks like there's even worse corruption yet to be exposed.


Wild speculation.

And while speculating, you ignore:
* the transcribed Trump/Zelenskyy phone conversation that showed no intimidation ,
* the multiple media interviews with Zelenskyy where he clearly said there was no intimidation by Trump,
* and Zelenskyy's complete unawareness that U.S. aid was temporarily witheld that Zelensly had no knowledge of. If intimidation were intended by Trump, there wouldd have been mention of it in their phone conversation. It was not mentioned. For a witholding of aid to be intimidating, Zelenskyy would have to be aware it was witheld.
For you to allege intimidation, you have to COMPLETELY IGNORE THE ACTUAL RECORD, and make up a false script of what Trump said, as Adam Schiff did in House hearings (for which unethical lies he should be removed as chair of the intel committee).

You also ignore the obvious intimidation of the Ukranians, both by then-VP Biden and his son.
And also (as I cited and linked above) the intimidating letter to the Ukranians by Senators Menendez, Leahy and Durbin, where they made clear their threats to the Ukranian government. No speculation needed, it's right there in plain view.

These you ignore, while slandering Trump, based on nothing. You cling to the tiniest whiff of unlikely possibility regarding Trump, while giving a total free pass to Biden and to these Democrat senators, and to PROVEN liar Adam Schiff.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 3:48 AM
What was wild speculation? We know he specifically asked a foreign government to investigate his biggest political rival. The House has the texts from the diplomats where quid pro quo was discussed. Ghoulini himself talked about being in the Ukrain.

And other than Trump and henchman making accusations while blocking testimony where's the evidence on Biden?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 4:50 AM
Here is the Ukrainian diplomat that Trump got rid of... CNN

Apparently the two Guilliani associates that were just arrested wanted her out because she actually wasn't corrupt. The same two that were funneling foreign money to republican campaigns. m
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 4:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
What was wild speculation? We know he specifically asked a foreign government to investigate his biggest political rival. The House has the texts from the diplomats where quid pro quo was discussed. Ghoulini himself talked about being in the Ukrain.

And other than Trump and henchman making accusations while blocking testimony where's the evidence on Biden?


Heads of state discuss such issues every day. There is no indication that Trump was in any way intimidating Zelenskyy. As the transcribed phone conversation, and Zelenskyy himself in multiple interviews, makes clear.

There is FAR more overt evidence of intimidation of Ukranian officials by Joseph Biden, and by his son Hunter Biden.
And by Senators Menedez, Durbin, and Leahy.

But of course, you don't even want to discuss that.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 6:21 PM
You're trying to say it's perfectly normal for a President to ask another foreign country to specifically investigate his political rivals? I sincerely doubt you really feel that way. If that had been Obama how would you feel about that phone call? As for Biden, I see Trump making accusations but what is the evidence to back up his "guilty till proven innocent " attacks? This is done while he's trying to block testimony and records on his own handling of Ukraine.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 6:23 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Here is the Ukrainian diplomat that Trump got rid of... CNN

Apparently the two Guilliani associates that were just arrested wanted her out because she actually wasn't corrupt. The same two that were funneling foreign money to republican campaigns. m


1) There is no wrongdoing in President Trump replacing any ambassador, at any time, as the president sees fit, that is any president's discretionary decision, to appoint who he thinks best represents U.S. national interests.

2) Rep. Devin Nunes, among others, has said there were plenty of complaints about Yovanovich,
* that she was an Obama appointee,
* that she was deeply invested in Hillary Clinton winning the 2016 election,
* that she had pressured Ukranian officials not to investigate or prosecute Soros-aligned groups in Ukraine (see the Glenn Beck video above).
* That Yovanovicch had made disparaging remarks about Trump to many staffers within the embassy and state department.
* That Yovanovich had made disparaging remarks about Trump to Ukranian officials.
* That Yovanovich was hostile toward the incoming Zelenskyy administration in Ukraine, and this was even mentioned the Trump/Zelenskyy de-classified phone call, brought to Zelenskyy's attention by many of his officials.

As usual, the CNN story is just more anti-Trump partisan liberal Newspeak smear.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 6:55 PM
Nunes is just a Trump toady though. And while she served under Obama she had a long career under republicans too. Trump of course can replace diplomats but this looks like it was because she did fight corruption. You might want to read up on those Guilliani associates that were just arrested for funneling foreign money into GOP campaigns. And while Trump claims he doesn't know them, they say they knew him. If he has the facts on his side why is he trying to block them?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 7:39 PM
I would add that part of what is being reported is that Guilliani's associates and himself were circulating the stuff about the diplomat that was recalled.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-12 10:11 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Nunes is just a Trump toady though. And while she served under Obama she had a long career under republicans too. Trump of course can replace diplomats but this looks like it was because she did fight corruption. You might want to read up on those Guilliani associates that were just arrested for funneling foreign money into GOP campaigns. And while Trump claims he doesn't know them, they say they knew him. If he has the facts on his side why is he trying to block them?


Rep. Devin Nunez is a United States congessman, and has almost singlehandedly unearthed much of what we know about the Russia Hoax coup by high level agents in the FBI, DOJ, CIA and NSA. Far from a "toady", he has put himself at risk politically for the country, and revealed factually provable conspiracy by Democrat/Deep State elements to try and sabotage/slander/destroy the 2016 Trump campaign, and several more pseudo-legal coups against Trump to cripple or remove him as president.

Nunez had false charges against him as House committee chair in 2018, and after about 9 months was completely exonerated of the slanders. Accusations that were quite clearly intended to delay investigation of FBI and DOJ crimes and deceit, also delaying until Democrats won in the mid-term, and Nunez no longer was (ceasing to be with the majority party after 2018) Nunez after the 2018 election no longer had the powers once exonerated, no longer the House majority party, to fully pursue investigation.

If it were not for Nunez, we would know virtually nothing of these abuses of power by the heads of federal agencies. A conspiracy that exceeds even Watergate in its bid to seize power and remove an elected president. Beyond Trump, they are still ruining the lives and bankrupting innocent men like Roger Stone, Jerome Corsi, Michael Flynn, Michael Caputo, Carter Page and George Pappadapoulos, among others. FBI and DOJ manufacturing false evidence to obtain FISA warrants, planted evidence, entrapping innocent men, extorting confessions, and witholding exculpatory evidence.

And no, it doesn't look like Yovanovich was fighting corruption. She ordered Ukranian officials not to investigate several Democrat allies. Multiple people both in the State Department and in the the Ukranian government say she was partisanly for Obama, made many comments hostile to Trump, comments hostile toward Zelensky and his government, and not a trustworthy ambassador.

If Trump was "trying to hide something" why did he fully disclose his phone call transcripted conversation with Zelenskyy? A move absolutely unprecedented in presidential history. A move that makes any foreign leader reluctant to speak candidly with ANY future U.S. president, knowing their words can be made public despite any assurances of privacy. And even that is not enough, and nothing ever will be, for the lying Democrats.
The goal of the treasonous Democrats is to destroy Trump any way they can, even if it undermines and destroys the nation itself.

You ignore the incredible number of times the lying partisan media has declared --almost every week!-- a new scandal, assuring us this time we have the evidence against Trump, this time he'll beimpeached, each time the story has fallen apart and proven to be falsified evidence by the Democrats, by deep state officials, by the liberal media, or falsified in collaboration by all three.

By the weirdest of coincidences, all this scandal has been unleashed to incriminate Giulinani and to incriminate Barr, just when they were on the brink of concluding their investigations and going public with their evidence. Just by the oddest coincidence. The motive is clear: the Democrats, Deep State and lying Newspeak liberal media are trying to smear the messengers, in advance of their releasing the evidence.
Or as Giuliani has said in the last few days, the Dems and media are "trying to kill the messenger".

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-13 3:04 AM



ADAM SCHIFF'S STAFF INCLUDES 2 AIDES WHO WORKED WITH WHISTLEBLOWER AT THE WHITE HOUSE


 Quote:
by Kerry Pickett
October 11, 2019


House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff recruited two former National Security Council aides who worked alongside the CIA whistleblower at the NSC during the Obama and Trump administrations, the Washington Examiner has learned.


Abigail Grace, who worked at the NSC until 2018, was hired in February, while Sean Misko, an NSC aide until 2017, joined Schiff's committee staff in August, the same month the whistleblower submitted his complaint.

The whistleblower was an NSC official who worked with former Vice President Joe Biden and who has expertise in Ukraine, the Washington Examiner has reported.

A career CIA analyst with Ukraine expertise, the whistleblower aired his concerns about a phone conversation between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to a House Intelligence Committee aide on Schiff’s staff. He had previously informed the CIA’s legal counsel's office.

Schiff initially denied he knew anything about the complaint before it was filed, stating on Sep. 17: “We have not spoken directly with the whistleblower. We would like to."

But it later emerged that a member of his staff had spoken to the whistleblower before his complaint was submitted on Aug. 12. The Washington Post concluded that Schiff "clearly made a statement that was false."


Grace, 36, was hired to help Schiff’s committee investigate the Trump White House. That month, Trump accused Schiff of "stealing people who work at White House." Grace worked at the NSC from 2016 to 2018 in U.S.-China relations and then briefly at the Center for a New American Security think tank, which was founded by two former senior Obama administration officials.

A Schiff aide commented in February: "We have hired staff for a variety of positions, including the committee's oversight work and its investigation. Although none of our staff has come directly from the White House, we have hired people with prior experience on the National Security Council staff for oversight of the agencies, and will continue to do so at our discretion." Schiff himself said, "If the president is worried about our hiring any former administration people, maybe he should work on being a better employer."

Misko, 37, worked in the Obama administration as a member of the secretary of state’s policy planning staff under deputy chief of staff Jake Sullivan, who became Hillary Clinton's top foreign policy official during her 2016 presidential campaign. In 2015, Misko was the director for the Gulf states at the NSC, remaining there into the Trump administration’s first year.

A source familiar with Grace's work at the NSC told the Washington Examiner, “Abby Grace had access to executive privilege information, and she has a duty not to disclose that information. She is not authorized to reveal that information.”

The same source said that Misko had not been trusted by Trump appointees. "There were a few times where documents had been signed off for final editing before they go to the national security adviser for signature," the source said. "And he actually went in and made changes after those changes were already finished. So he basically tried to insert, without his boss' approval.

"There were meetings in which he protested very heavily, and next thing you know, there's an article in the paper about the contents of that meeting."

Misko often clashed with other NSC personnel at meetings, another source said. Both Grace and Misko were close to Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, Trump's national security adviser from Feb. 2017 until May 2018.

Misko was a CNAS fellow in 2014. Misko's name surfaced in the Hillary Clinton email controversy when he worked in the State Department during the Obama administration.

In a Dec. 1, 2009, email released by Judicial Watch, Clinton adviser Huma Abedin sent classified information regarding foreign military contributions to the Afghanistan war effort to her private email account. That email originated with Misko, who wrote to Sullivan that he initially “accidentally” sent it on the “high side” (secure) but was sending the email again.

The intelligence committee did not respond to a request for comment.




Well, well, well... this thing just gets more incestuous and staged-looking every day.
Just like every other attempted exposure "bombshell" story about President Trump. It's a lie, it's a sham, a manufactured conspiracy, a palace coup.

And the puppet-masters of this staged coup should faces charges and spend some time in pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison.

As should Comey, McCabe, Brennan, Strzok, Page, James Baker, John Brennan, James Clapper and the other willing accomplices in the previous and ongoing coup attempts.

Because only actual punishment will make this kind of infuriating abuse of power finally be deterred and stopped.

Likewise Christine Blasey-Ford, Deborah Ramirez and Kavanaugh's other 2 perjuring/lying accusers. Likewise Koskinin, Lois Lerner and her hand-picked inner circle of KGB-wannabees at the IRS.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-13 6:16 AM
The problem for Trump is the transcript he released backs up what the whistleblower was saying. It's not okay for any President to ask another country to try to dig up dirt on a political rival. There isn't a question that Trump misused his office in that way. His corruption was on full display. And with the two Rudy/Trump thugs illegally running around funneling money into GOP campaigns and also connected to the Ukrain scandal I don't think the GOP can just blindly and obediently follow and protect him without paying a price at election time.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-13 1:03 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The problem for Trump is the transcript he released backs up what the whistleblower was saying. It's not okay for any President to ask another country to try to dig up dirt on a political rival. There isn't a question that Trump misused his office in that way. His corruption was on full display. And with the two Rudy/Trump thugs illegally running around funneling money into GOP campaigns and also connected to the Ukrain scandal I don't think the GOP can just blindly and obediently follow and protect him without paying a price at election time.


No, it doesn't support what the "whistleblower"/CIA-leaker-rat was alleging.

The transcript shows there was no intimidation, no coercion by Trump. Zelensky in multiple on-camera interviews since has made clear it was a very friendly call, as the transcribed de-classified phone call also confirms. At no time in the call did Trump intimidate or threaten Zelenskyy.
While Trump used the term "hey, do me a favor..." (as he has used on many people in a non-threatening way, even in multiple rallies to his audience of supporters), at no time was there a threat connected. To any neutral observer, the call was very friendly. To Zelenskyy himself, it was friendly.

The one bit that Democrats cling to is that planned aid to Ukraine was held up, but was never discussed in the call between Trump and Zelenskyy, and thus was never used as a threat. Zelenskyy has independently of that conversation said that he was completely unaware the U.S. aid to Ukraine was delayed, and only learned of it 30 days after the Trump/Zelenskyy phone call, at which point the aid had already resumed. It was witheld to be screened for potential corruption, not as a threat, completely independent of Trump and Zelenskyy's phone call.

The 'whistleblower"/CIA-leaker-rat's allegations are highly suspect for multiple reasons:
* The leaker rules were changed by the CIA just months before his "whistleblower" report was made.
* No one in the CIA is willing to to take credit for precisely when the whistleblower report form was changed, or who authorized the change, but it had to ultimately be approved by director Gina Haspel.
* Gina Haspel is the protege of John Brennan, and Brennan is the most vocal and bitter of Trump's attackers, that he does pretty much daily as a "consultant" pundit from anti-Trump propaganda headquarters CNN.
* Several of Gina Haspel's closest assistants were assistants to John Brennan, and one of them came out of retirement to be her assistant.
* The "Russia collusion hoax" coup is believed to have originated from Brennan, and Gina Haspel is Brennan's chosen successor at the CIA.
* The CIA is where the "Russia collusion" narrative was created, and now this newest "whistleblower" coup again originates from a CIA agent, and those "additional whistleblowers" are likely other CIA co-workers. Another CIA agent interviewed calls this by the intelligence community propaganda technique term "looping", where you don't have new information, you just allege new sources, but they are in fact part of the original whistleblower's report. A standard CIA psy-ops tactic. Which by the way, is what was done with the evidence presented for the FISA warrants submitted to FISA Court judges on Carter Page, four times, where Christopher Steele's "Russia dossier" was presented as evidence, with two articles that allegedly backed it up, but were in fact sourced from and just repeating what was in the Russia Dossier.
* The disproven "Russia Collusion" hoax originated from the CIA/ FBI/ DNI intelligence community, and this latest "whistleblower" report originates from the same intelligence community and involves many of the same players.

You and other Democrats are so desperate to create any rationalization to impeach Trump that you are willing to believe anything alleged about Trump, no matter how suspicious, no matter how disproven.
But regardless, it's a scam. You're just too ideologically blind to see it.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-13 1:09 PM


In the concluding 10 minutes of Lou Dobbs' program (Friday, Oct 11 2019) Dobbs interviews Pulitzer-winning journalist John Solomon,who details the multiple verifiable complaints about removed ambassador and Democrat partisan Maria Yovanovich over a period of months, that infinitely justify her removal and remove any doubt she is a Democrat/Soros/anti-Trump partisan.


Lou Dobbs Tonight, October 11, 2019



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-13 4:07 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The problem for Trump is the transcript he released backs up what the whistleblower was saying. It's not okay for any President to ask another country to try to dig up dirt on a political rival. There isn't a question that Trump misused his office in that way. His corruption was on full display. And with the two Rudy/Trump thugs illegally running around funneling money into GOP campaigns and also connected to the Ukrain scandal I don't think the GOP can just blindly and obediently follow and protect him without paying a price at election time.


No, it doesn't support what the "whistleblower"/CIA-leaker-rat was alleging.

The transcript shows there was no intimidation, no coercion by Trump. Zelensky in multiple on-camera interviews since has made clear it was a very friendly call, as the transcribed de-classified phone call also confirms. At no time in the call did Trump intimidate or threaten Zelenskyy.
While Trump used the term "hey, do me a favor..." (as he has used on many people in a non-threatening way, even in multiple rallies to his audience of supporters), at no time was there a threat connected. To any neutral observer, the call was very friendly. To Zelenskyy himself, it was friendly.

The one bit that Democrats cling to is that planned aid to Ukraine was held up, but was never discussed in the call between Trump and Zelenskyy, and thus was never used as a threat. Zelenskyy has independently of that conversation said that he was completely unaware the U.S. aid to Ukraine was delayed, and only learned of it 30 days after the Trump/Zelenskyy phone call, at which point the aid had already resumed. It was witheld to be screened for potential corruption, not as a threat, completely independent of Trump and Zelenskyy's phone call.

The 'whistleblower"/CIA-leaker-rat's allegations are highly suspect for multiple reasons:
* The leaker rules were changed by the CIA just months before his "whistleblower" report was made.
* No one in the CIA is willing to to take credit for precisely when the whistleblower report form was changed, or who authorized the change, but it had to ultimately be approved by director Gina Haspel.
* Gina Haspel is the protege of John Brennan, and Brennan is the most vocal and bitter of Trump's attackers, that he does pretty much daily as a "consultant" pundit from anti-Trump propaganda headquarters CNN.
* Several of Gina Haspel's closest assistants were assistants to John Brennan, and one of them came out of retirement to be her assistant.
* The "Russia collusion hoax" coup is believed to have originated from Brennan, and Gina Haspel is Brennan's chosen successor at the CIA.
* The CIA is where the "Russia collusion" narrative was created, and now this newest "whistleblower" coup again originates from a CIA agent, and those "additional whistleblowers" are likely other CIA co-workers. Another CIA agent interviewed calls this by the intelligence community propaganda technique term "looping", where you don't have new information, you just allege new sources, but they are in fact part of the original whistleblower's report. A standard CIA psy-ops tactic. Which by the way, is what was done with the evidence presented for the FISA warrants submitted to FISA Court judges on Carter Page, four times, where Christopher Steele's "Russia dossier" was presented as evidence, with two articles that allegedly backed it up, but were in fact sourced from and just repeating what was in the Russia Dossier.
* The disproven "Russia Collusion" hoax originated from the CIA/ FBI/ DNI intelligence community, and this latest "whistleblower" report originates from the same intelligence community and involves many of the same players.

You and other Democrats are so desperate to create any rationalization to impeach Trump that you are willing to believe anything alleged about Trump, no matter how suspicious, no matter how disproven.
But regardless, it's a scam. You're just too ideologically blind to see it.




I don't think it's a scam but you keep skipping over the fact that regardless of anything else we know Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his biggest political rival. That corrupt act in itself is worthy of impeachment. I keep thinking if parties were reversed and a democratic president did that I still wouldn't be okay with that. Would you?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-13 9:59 PM




https://www.conservapedia.com/Deep_State_coup_2.0


 Quote:
After the failure of the Mueller investigation to depose President Donald Trump, in September 2019 Democrats manufactured evidence to begin an "impeachment inquiry". Under new House Rules adopted by Democrats in December 2018, Republicans are excluded from questioning witnesses while Articles of Impeachment are being drafted.

The timing of the impeachment inquiry was to blunt information coming out regarding the fraudulent counterintelligence investigation opened up on the 2016 Trump campaign, and the Russia collusion hoax perpetrated by the Obama intelligence community in collusion with the Democratic National Committee, the 2016 Hillary Clinton campaign, foreign governments and intelligence agencies to meddle in American media, public opinion, sway elections and attack American democracy. [ Timing planned to eclipse and discredit the reports coming out on these DOJ, FBI, CIA, DNI and FISA court abuses, about to be exposed in reports by attorney general William Barr, U.S. attorney John Durham, and inspector general Horowitz that will thoroughly discredit the investigations of Trump. This "Deep State 2.0" is designed to overwhelm and mask the exposures of those investigations.]

Candidate Donald Trump had questioned why the United States was shouldering the burden of European Union defense costs while Europeans enjoyed free healthcare and Americans did not, and why China was taking over $500 billion in American wealth out of the country annually by trade deficits while Americans' communities were being destroyed.[3] The military industrial complex and corporate globalists considered Trump a threat to their security.

The alleged "whistleblower" filed a questionable hearsay complaint in an area outside the statutory purview of the intelligence community inspector general. The same day, August 12, 2019, the Congressional Research Service (CRS), a supposedly "non-partisan" research service that provides legal analysis to committees and Members of both houses, issued an updated version of its report, The Impeachment Process in the House of Representatives.[4] "Coincidentally," six weeks later the CRS again issued a faulty report, using no statutory citations, informing Members that hearsay evidence was acceptable under the Whistleblower Act just two days before the alleged "whistleblower" complaint was received by House Intelligence Committee.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-14 12:31 AM
The timing of the impeachment inquiry happened because of Trump asking a foreign country to investigate his biggest political rival. An act of corruption that I don't see Trump supporters defending or even acknowledging.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-15 1:13 AM


How is that different from the what the DNC, the Hillary Clinton campaign (Christopher Steele/Fusion GPS/Ukraine/direct agents of Russian intelligence), and what Democrat senators Leahy, Durbin and Menendez did, that I linked above?
The only Trump supporters who are voicing doubts are the Establishment/never-Trumpers in the GOP who have previously never missed a similar opportunity to attack Trump.
Trump still has an unprecedented 95% support from his Republican base, who are not buying it, and are not leaving Trump.

As Kim Strassell of the Wall Street Journal said, there is nothing Democrats are accusing Trump of, that the Democrats themselves have not done, and egregiously more so.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-15 1:18 AM



Mark Levin in his Sunday night program, perfectly sums up the Democrat lies and hypocrisy of the Democrat leadership, and the unconstitutional coup they are unleashing on the country and their elected president:

Life, Liberty, Levin program, Sunday, Oct 13 2019
https://www.facebook.com/foxnewsniceshow/videos/432461077407676/


Levin uses their own written statements and the written law to incriminate them and expose their lawlessness.

I'm constantly amazed that anyone could watch an hour of CNN, and then watch an hour of programs like this on Fox News, and not realize that CNN is lying to them.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-15 2:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


How is that different from the what the DNC, the Hillary Clinton campaign (Christopher Steele/Fusion GPS/Ukraine/direct agents of Russian intelligence), and what Democrat senators Leahy, Durbin and Menendez did, that I linked above?
The only Trump supporters who are voicing doubts are the Establishment/never-Trumpers in the GOP who have previously never missed a similar opportunity to attack Trump.
Trump still has an unprecedented 95% support from his Republican base, who are not buying it, and are not leaving Trump.

As Kim Strassell of the Wall Street Journal said, there is nothing Democrats are accusing Trump of, that the Democrats themselves have not done, and egregiously more so.



That's bullshit. Hiring somebody to dig up dirt is not the same thing as using the office of the presidency to ask foreign countries to investigate your biggest political rivals. That is corruption in its purest form. But because it's Trump you can't even call it for what it is. And I think there's more to it than Trump doing that given the lengths he's trying to obstruct the inquiry.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-15 6:44 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy



Mark Levin in his Sunday night program, perfectly sums up the Democrat lies and hypocrisy of the Democrat leadership, and the unconstitutional coup they are unleashing on the country and their elected president:

Life, Liberty, Levin program, Sunday, Oct 13 2019
https://www.facebook.com/foxnewsniceshow/videos/432461077407676/


Levin uses their own written statements and the written law to incriminate them and expose their lawlessness.

I'm constantly amazed that anyone could watch an hour of CNN, and then watch an hour of programs like this on Fox News, and not realize that CNN is lying to them.



Is it lawful to reject subpoenas? And what version of the constitution doesn't have impeachment in it. Are lies like fake news? If you don't like it than it's not true?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-15 7:51 PM
“ Is it lawful to reject subpoenas?“

Not if they are validly served and/or issued.

At this point, the executive branch is arguing they weren’t. The legislative branch is arguing that they were.

Ultimately it’ll go to the judicial branch for a final determination.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-16 4:08 AM
Congress didn't just get the right to subpoena people though. You're correct Trump is making those arguments but the house still has the right to subpoena and a duty of oversight. I get where the delaying tactic might be preferable for Trump but it's not really a great legal argument he's making.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-16 9:01 PM



 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


How is that different from the what the DNC, the Hillary Clinton campaign (Christopher Steele/Fusion GPS/Ukraine/direct agents of Russian intelligence), and what Democrat senators Leahy, Durbin and Menendez did, that I linked above?
The only Trump supporters who are voicing doubts are the Establishment/never-Trumpers in the GOP who have previously never missed a similar opportunity to attack Trump.
Trump still has an unprecedented 95% support from his Republican base, who are not buying it, and are not leaving Trump.

As Kim Strassell of the Wall Street Journal said, there is nothing Democrats are accusing Trump of, that the Democrats themselves have not done, and egregiously more so.



That's bullshit. Hiring somebody to dig up dirt is not the same thing as using the office of the presidency to ask foreign countries to investigate your biggest political rivals. That is corruption in its purest form. But because it's Trump you can't even call it for what it is. And I think there's more to it than Trump doing that given the lengths he's trying to obstruct the inquiry.


That is your Democrat side's spin of it, whose talking points you are repeating.

But is's laughable to say, because the only way you can make the argument is by ignoring that the DNC, and Hillary Clinton campaign and Obama officials directly spent paid million to Russian intelligence officials through Fusion GPS and a British MI-6 foreign agent, Christopher Steele. And further through Hillary Clinton partisans (James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr, Rod Rosenstein) backchannelled that Russian dirt propaganda to investigate Hillary Clinton's biggest political rival and to submit perjury false information for FISA warrants against Trump officials !
HOW DO YOU GET AROUND THAT ?!?

Rudy Giuliani can be argued to be gathering information independently as the president's personal attorney, to exonerate his client, the president, with exculpatory evidence that has not otherwise been made available, by pro-Hillary/DNC forces in the DOJ and FBI, who haave suppreseed it, even when the Ukranian government offered it, REPEATEDLY!
So Giuliani was going directly to the Ukranians to bypaass that Deep State filter at FBI and DOJ.

And Trump's phone call (fully disclosed, in an unprecedented level of presidential openess) makes that clear: that what your government offerred us before, we would like you to give us again, there is new management at DOJ (William Barr) and this time we will not ignore it, as partisan Deep State obstructionists have in the past.
Only by Democrat selective disclusure, half-truths and outright lies (Rep. Adam Schiff being the poster-boy for that!) Do Giuliani and Trump's actions take on a sinister appearance.

As opposed to the obvious sinister intent of Joseph Biden, Hunter Biden, Fusion GPS/Christopher Steele, Nellie Ohr, Bruce Ohr, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and the threatening letter to Ukraine by Democrat Senators Leahy, Durbin and Menendez to the Ukranian government extorting dirt on Trump to help the Hillary Clinton campaaign! On and on, on the Democrat side. And these people, you don't even want investigated. Just amazing, the hypocrisy and selective enforcement you advocate.




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-16 9:21 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Congress didn't just get the right to subpoena people though. You're correct Trump is making those arguments but the house still has the right to subpoena and a duty of oversight. I get where the delaying tactic might be preferable for Trump but it's not really a great legal argument he's making.



You apparently didn't watch the Mark Levin program I linked above. He cited the written statements, and cited the written law, and the written past precedents in the impeachment proceedings of Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.

Past impeachment procedure has always been for the 15-member Judiciary Committee to vote for going forward with impeachment, and then impeachment to be voted on by the full 435 members of the House.
That is not what is occurring now.

Rep. Adam Schiff as judiciary chair, is locking up all authority to investigate in the Judiciary committee.
And not even the entire 15-member judiciary committee, he is only allowing the Democrat members to participate. Yesterday, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), a judiciart committe member, attempted to just sit in the room and listen to witness proceedings, AND WAS FORCED TO LEAVE! So there is not equal access to facts and witness deposition, Republicans are working blind, with no information.

Unlike the previous impeachments, the Democrats have set up the rules so only they can call witnesses, only they can ask questions, all BEHIND CLOSED DOORS so they can completely control the information, and they leak out whatever gives the appearance of supporting their case against Trump.
Trump and the Republicans are not allowed to cross-examine witnesses, not allowed to ask questions or present any exculpatory evidence that would exonerate President Trump or his officials. It's a Soviet-style kangaroo court.

In three past impeachments, as Mark Levin cites and quotes, the ruling party bent over backward to present a joint bipartisan impeachment effort, where both sides had the same access to subpoena power and witnesses.

That is NOT what is occurring now.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-17 5:08 AM
No offense but I just don't view videos like that from either side. I have read that argument from other republicans though. Basically it boils down to trying to say that a change in procedure somehow voids whatever you don't want. That of course doesn't hold true for what you do. For example the GOP senate changing the rules to load the Supreme Court with who they wanted. I suspect you do feel those seats are illegitimate. The republicans on those committees are allowed to question witnesses btw. It's also not a new rule that non committee members can just sit in on anything they want. The House according to the Constitution has the power to impeach. It does not go into great detail on how that happens. So far the democrats have not done anything unconstitutional in the process. Trump is just flat out lying when he says that. Lying and trying to get foreign countries to investigate his political rivals while trying to block testimony. You don't seem to have a problem with some really major ethical lapses there!

If the House votes to impeach it than goes to the Senate for trial. Trump has his bitches ready so I think that's going to be truly your soviet style kangaroo court. Moscow Mitch has already teased about it. However America is watching and right now support for impeachment and removal is around or above fifty percent so they might actually have to do a real trial.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-17 6:24 AM
Btw I've read the rough transcript. Trump doesn't say anything about resending information. It's clear what he's asking for as a favor. I've also been reading testimonies that re-enforce what is already clear in the transcript. He has been clearing out those that won't bend to his corruption, people that were loyal to the this country. What a truly awful corrupt man.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-17 6:35 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
No offense but I just don't view videos like that from either side. I have read that argument from other republicans though. Basically it boils down to trying to say that a change in procedure somehow voids whatever you don't want.


As I just said above: Republicans are not allowed to either subpoena or call witnesses, not allowed to cross-examine witnesses, NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO ATTEND AND HEAR the closed door testimony, NOT EVEN ALLOWED (Rep. Matt Gaetz tried, and was FORCED TO LEAVE THE HEARINGS) TO ATTEND AND HEAR THE TESTIMONY TO HEAR WHAT WAS SAID, except for what Democrats choose to leak to the media.

In what parallel alternate universe are those fair proceedings with an interest in the truth?

How caan I have a reasonable discussion with you if you refuse to listen to the facts? You label any counter-argument as "videos like that" from the other side that you won't watch? How is it possible to have a debate of the facts if you won't listen to both sides? Those are the facts that you choose not to hear!

 Originally Posted By: M E M
That of course doesn't hold true for what you do. For example the GOP senate changing the rules to load the Supreme Court with who they wanted. I suspect you do feel those seats are illegitimate.



I don't know what you're referring to. I've listened to a lot of Democrat talking points, but I've never heard that alleged. I'm guessing what you mean, is this about witholding the Supreme Court nomination until after the 2016 election, not confirming Merrick Garland, and instead confirming Neil Gorsuch once Trump was inaugurated? Because that was the Republicans upholding the same standard that Democrats previously established, and far from "stacking the court". And Gorsuch and Garland ruled the same in over 90% of cases, so I fail to see how that was a radical shift.


 Originally Posted By: M E M
The republicans on those committees are allowed to question witnesses btw.


No, they're not. As I said, Rep. Matt Gaetz was not even permitted to attend the hearings, let alone ask questions, in the Democrats' kangaroo court.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
It's also not a new rule that non committee members can just sit in on anything they want.


Gaetz is a member of the 15 member Judiciary Committee, he isn't just a House member sittin in on anything they want.


 Originally Posted By: M E M
The House according to the Constitution has the power to impeach. It does not go into great detail on how that happens. So far the democrats have not done anything unconstitutional in the process. Trump is just flat out lying when he says that. Lying and trying to get foreign countries to investigate his political rivals while trying to block testimony. You don't seem to have a problem with some really major ethical lapses there!


The Democrats are keeping all decisions bottled up in THEIR HALF of the Judiciary Committee, not even sharing the same access to the facts with the Republicans on the committee, let alone the powers to subpoena, call witnesses, cross examine them, or present exculpatory evidence. This standard would be unconstitutional if any U.S. citizen were investigated and tried in this way, it certainly is not acceptable to do so with the President of the United States.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
If the House votes to impeach it than goes to the Senate for trial.


That's horseshit. They are slanting the evidence to try the president in the court of public opinion, suppressing the true facts from even being presented. They are indefinitely bombarding the president with one-sided propaganda in an attempt to destroy Trump in the polls and erode his support. They are tainting public opinion, so that at the point it is allowed to go to the full 435 members of the House, if and when the true facts are allowed to be presented, the public will either not hear them or not believe them.



 Originally Posted By: M E M
Trump has his bitches ready so I think that's going to be truly your soviet style kangaroo court. Moscow Mitch has already teased about it. However America is watching and right now support for impeachment and removal is around or above fifty percent so they might actually have to do a real trial.


"Bitches"....
"Moscow Mitch"...

That is some truly vile rhetoric from you. Increased support for impeachment, just like the "Moscow Mitch" label, is based on a twisted version of the true facts, brewed by malicious House Democrats, and a compliant liberal media who all voted for Hillary and are still doing their damnedest to reverse the 2016 election.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 5:16 AM
Gaetz isn't on any of the 3 committees conducting the impeachment inquiry. That isn't a new rule. The republicans on that committee can ask questions. It's true they don't have equal control but this isn't the trial. That will happen in the GOP controlled senate. And given the performances of many of them I'm being kind by referring to them as Trump's bitches. There isn't even a pretense of objectivity among the likes of Lindsey Graham.

In other news Mulvaney admits Trump withheld aid to Ukrain to pressure them for an investigation. Apparently he didn't realize he admitted that it was a quid pro quo.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 5:24 AM
Oh and the G7 meeting will be held at a Trump property and no we don't get to see any documents on the decision making behind choosing his own property.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 1:53 PM



Uh...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_the_Judiciary#Members,_116th_Congress

...yes, Rep. MAtt Gaetz is on the judiciary committee.

Again, your side is not even attempting to pursue a bipartisan and impartial Senate investigation. There is a vindictive rush to impeachment, despite the evidence to the contrary, for purely political reasons, because Democrats see this abuse of power and the only "Hail Mary" way to possibly prevent Trump's re-election.

To the destruction and detriment of the nation.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 2:34 PM
And the Judiciary committee wasn't one of the three committees conducting the inquiry.

I think if positions were reversed you would be more than fine with impeaching a democrat for abusing their office like Trump has in this situation. Nor do I see how this could be a Hail Mary type thing considering the GOP controls the Senate. Removal will require bipartisan support.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 8:51 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And the Judiciary committee wasn't one of the three committees conducting the inquiry.

I think if positions were reversed you would be more than fine with impeaching a democrat for abusing their office like Trump has in this situation. Nor do I see how this could be a Hail Mary type thing considering the GOP controls the Senate. Removal will require bipartisan support.



That might be true, if the person in the reverse position (Republican or Democrat) had done ANYHING WRONG!


It's infuriating that your side:
1) completely bypasses any pretense of fairness and impartiality as they rig the investigation and exclude any openness or mutual sharing of facts to allow for Trump's defense.

and
2) That your side hypocritially wants to impeach Trump on the slightest whiff of a scandal, while simultaneously turning a blind eye to >>>>>FAR<<<<< more egregious abuse of power by Obama, Hillary, Biden, son Hunter, Menendez, Leahy, Durbin, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Bruce and Nellie Ohr, Lois Lerner, Koskinin, on and on!


It truly scares me that your party could ever egain regain power. It would be a complete marginalization of Republicans, banning them from any platform in news media or social media, exclusion from employment, and purge of all dissenting thought, even Democrat thought, that doesn't follow the party line. Just ask Tulsi Gabbard about that one, or Nicholas Sandmann, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Pam Bondi, or the hundreds of attackss on Republicans for thingsa as simple as wearing a MAGA hat. Control of all three branches would bring about a Democrat-led purge in the U.S. akin to the Great Terror of the French Revolution.

It is not the with the slightest exagerration that I refer to the Democrats as the Bolshevik party. Intimidation, violence, slander, whatever serves the Revolution. Mob rule, authoritarian and vindictive use of power. The complete abandonment of rule of law.

What occurred for 8 years under Obama (the IRS targeting conservatives, "Fast and Furious" running guns by ATF to Mexican drug cartels, illegal FISA warrants on the Trump campaign...), and that Trump has attempted to turn away from, to restore rule of law and trust in government.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 8:54 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Oh and the G7 meeting will be held at a Trump property and no we don't get to see any documents on the decision making behind choosing his own property.


Which the Trump administration is holding at cost, NOT for profit. A nice selective omission (i.e., lie) on your part.


As opposed to Joseph Biden and son Hunter Biden, who enriched themselves for tens of millions, through blackmail and corrupt use of power.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 9:02 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Gaetz isn't on any of the 3 committees conducting the impeachment inquiry. That isn't a new rule. The republicans on that committee can ask questions. It's true they don't have equal control but this isn't the trial. That will happen in the GOP controlled senate. And given the performances of many of them I'm being kind by referring to them as Trump's bitches. There isn't even a pretense of objectivity among the likes of Lindsey Graham.

In other news Mulvaney admits Trump withheld aid to Ukrain to pressure them for an investigation. Apparently he didn't realize he admitted that it was a quid pro quo.



GOP REP. MATT GAETZ EJECTED FROM CLOSED-DOOR IMPEACHMENT HEARING

 Quote:
by Susan Ferrechio
October 14, 2019


A Republican member of the House Judiciary Committee was ejected from a closed-door impeachment hearing.


Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida tried to enter a hearing Monday in which lawmakers from three different committees are interviewing President Trump’s former top aide on Russia, Fiona Hill.

Gaetz said he believed he should be allowed to attend the hearing because impeachment inquiries traditionally are handled by the House Judiciary Committee, and he serves on that panel.

But the House parliamentarian told Gaetz he is not allowed to attend the hearing because he does not sit on either the Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, or Oversight panels, which are the official committees conducting the impeachment inquiry.

"Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler claimed to have begun the impeachment inquiry weeks ago," Gaetz said on Twitter after leaving the hearing room. "Now, his own Judiciary members aren’t even allowed to participate in it. And yes - my constituents want me actively involved in stopping the #KangarooCourtCoup run by Shifty Schiff."

Republicans and Trump have criticized the impeachment inquiry for failing to follow precedent, which includes a House vote, referral to the Judiciary Committee, and bipartisan agreement on rules for the inquiry.

Gaetz has called for an end to the impeachment inquiry.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-18 10:35 PM


Eric Trump, We made our money before entering public office, Dem ocrats and their children went in poor and enriched themselves selling their office Martha McCallum, Oct 8 2019



In another interview I can't find with Laura Ingraham on Oct 15 or 16th, Eric Trump says that his family are the first ones who have lost money once entering public service, that they put all their assets in blind trusts run by others, and have lost hundeds of millions in potential deals.
And that not only Trump, but also Ivanka, Jared Kushner and Eric have all not accepted any salary while in public service. Trump annually gives away his presidential salary to a charity every year. I was aware Trump did this, I was not aware the other Trumps do this as well. And yet doing this, they are demonized by Dams.

Name me ONE Democrat, one other political leader period, who doesn't even take a salary for their public office.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-19 2:22 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And the Judiciary committee wasn't one of the three committees conducting the inquiry.

I think if positions were reversed you would be more than fine with impeaching a democrat for abusing their office like Trump has in this situation. Nor do I see how this could be a Hail Mary type thing considering the GOP controls the Senate. Removal will require bipartisan support.



That might be true, if the person in the reverse position (Republican or Democrat) had done ANYHING WRONG!


It's infuriating that your side:
1) completely bypasses any pretense of fairness and impartiality as they rig the investigation and exclude any openness or mutual sharing of facts to allow for Trump's defense.

and
2) That your side hypocritially wants to impeach Trump on the slightest whiff of a scandal, while simultaneously turning a blind eye to >>>>>FAR<<<<< more egregious abuse of power by Obama, Hillary, Biden, son Hunter, Menendez, Leahy, Durbin, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Bruce and Nellie Ohr, Lois Lerner, Koskinin, on and on!


It truly scares me that your party could ever egain regain power. It would be a complete marginalization of Republicans, banning them from any platform in news media or social media, exclusion from employment, and purge of all dissenting thought, even Democrat thought, that doesn't follow the party line. Just ask Tulsi Gabbard about that one, or Nicholas Sandmann, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Pam Bondi, or the hundreds of attackss on Republicans for thingsa as simple as wearing a MAGA hat. Control of all three branches would bring about a Democrat-led purge in the U.S. akin to the Great Terror of the French Revolution.

It is not the with the slightest exagerration that I refer to the Democrats as the Bolshevik party. Intimidation, violence, slander, whatever serves the Revolution. Mob rule, authoritarian and vindictive use of power. The complete abandonment of rule of law.

What occurred for 8 years under Obama (the IRS targeting conservatives, "Fast and Furious" running guns by ATF to Mexican drug cartels, illegal FISA warrants on the Trump campaign...), and that Trump has attempted to turn away from, to restore rule of law and trust in government.



There's more than a whiff of scandal here WB, I would think even you would have to admit that. Trump asked a foreign government to investigate the political rival he views as his biggest threat. Plus it looks like he had his personal lawyer running some type of shadow state department. If they have facts and testimony that actually cleared them of wrongdoing than why the effort to shut down the inquiry and lack of cooperation? And even the Trump administration passed on the IRS thing. When I read up on it I can see why. It was a fake scandal but a very good one for tax cheats as the GOP cut its funding.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-19 2:46 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Oh and the G7 meeting will be held at a Trump property and no we don't get to see any documents on the decision making behind choosing his own property.


Which the Trump administration is holding at cost, NOT for profit. A nice selective omission (i.e., lie) on your part.


As opposed to Joseph Biden and son Hunter Biden, who enriched themselves for tens of millions, through blackmail and corrupt use of power.


Honestly i wasn't trying to be deceptive WB. We don't know what "at cost" ends up being. We just had Trump here in MNand you had problems with the that number the mayor gave. Even if it was at cost though he benefits from having such an event held on his own property. And where is the evidence on the Biden's? You don't seem to require much to make accusations like that. I do get that his son was making money because of his last name but the VP didn't use his position to get him a job at the WH or bend the rules to get him security clearances to have those jobs. Nor did Biden give him jobs like solving the peace process in Israel.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-19 3:00 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Eric Trump, We made our money before entering public office, Dem ocrats and their children went in poor and enriched themselves selling their office Martha McCallum, Oct 8 2019



In another interview I can't find with Laura Ingraham on Oct 15 or 16th, Eric Trump says that his family are the first ones who have lost money once entering public service, that they put all their assets in blind trusts run by others, and have lost hundeds of millions in potential deals.
And that not only Trump, but also Ivanka, Jared Kushner and Eric have all not accepted any salary while in public service. Trump annually gives away his presidential salary to a charity every year. I was aware Trump did this, I was not aware the other Trumps do this as well. And yet doing this, they are demonized by Dams.

Name me ONE Democrat, one other political leader period, who doesn't even take a salary for their public office.



I did some googling because I thought there was criticism about Trump not putting his money into a blind trust and that looks to still be the case. He technically has it in some type of trust but it's as good as not having one and it's not a blind one. He also had to dissolve the Trump charity for their fraudulent use of it.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 5:31 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Oh and the G7 meeting will be held at a Trump property and no we don't get to see any documents on the decision making behind choosing his own property.


Which the Trump administration is holding at cost, NOT for profit. A nice selective omission (i.e., lie) on your part.


As opposed to Joseph Biden and son Hunter Biden, who enriched themselves for tens of millions, through blackmail and corrupt use of power.


Honestly i wasn't trying to be deceptive WB. We don't know what "at cost" ends up being. We just had Trump here in MNand you had problems with the that number the mayor gave. Even if it was at cost though he benefits from having such an event held on his own property. And where is the evidence on the Biden's? You don't seem to require much to make accusations like that. I do get that his son was making money because of his last name but the VP didn't use his position to get him a job at the WH or bend the rules to get him security clearances to have those jobs. Nor did Biden give him jobs like solving the peace process in Israel.



It's been reported nightly for roughly 3 weeks that Hunter Biden was thrown out of the navy for drug use, that he travelled with Vice President Biden (who was basically appointed the trade czar for the U.S. to Ukraine) and with no experience within days, was appointed to the boaard of energy company Burisma, for which Hunter Biden received monthly payouts ranging between $50,000 and $183,000 per month. Plus other bonuses and payouts, totalling at least $3.5 million since 2014. And that's just from Burisma.
In addition, Huter Biden also travelled on Air Force Two to China, and days after secured a $1.5 billion payment from a Chinese state bank for his consulting firm to invest. Democrats lyingly say that Hunter Biden hasn't received any money from them yet, but it's well documented that when that investment reached completion, it will give Hunter Biden a payout of at least 20 million. And again, that's not even all the deals that Hunter Biden has gotten based solely on being the Vice President's son.
Now granted, criminality is a difficult thing to prove in court. Bill Clinton squirmed off the hook in Whitewater and special investigation. John Edwards likewise was guilty as hell, but somehow never served a day in jail. So many others.

But I think with an overwhelming majority of Americans, Hunter Biden's dealings seem undeniably corrupt and criminal (particularly with Joe Biden bragging on video about getting the chief prosecutor investigating his son fired in 6 hours, by witholding $1 billion in U.S. funds from the Ukranian president.) Whether or not Joe Biden or Hunter Biden are ever prosecuted. At the very least it will repel Democrats from an already waning and incompetent presidential bid for Joseph Biden.

Regarding the G-7 summit at Trump's resort, he said it is undeniably the best possible facility to have the event. If Trump is doing the event at-cost, I fail to see the harm, or the profit. It was already among the most presigious of resorts, having the G-7 event there doesn't change that.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 5:43 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And the Judiciary committee wasn't one of the three committees conducting the inquiry.

I think if positions were reversed you would be more than fine with impeaching a democrat for abusing their office like Trump has in this situation. Nor do I see how this could be a Hail Mary type thing considering the GOP controls the Senate. Removal will require bipartisan support.



That might be true, if the person in the reverse position (Republican or Democrat) had done ANYHING WRONG!


It's infuriating that your side:
1) completely bypasses any pretense of fairness and impartiality as they rig the investigation and exclude any openness or mutual sharing of facts to allow for Trump's defense.

and
2) That your side hypocritially wants to impeach Trump on the slightest whiff of a scandal, while simultaneously turning a blind eye to >>>>>FAR<<<<< more egregious abuse of power by Obama, Hillary, Biden, son Hunter, Menendez, Leahy, Durbin, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Bruce and Nellie Ohr, Lois Lerner, Koskinin, on and on!


It truly scares me that your party could ever egain regain power. It would be a complete marginalization of Republicans, banning them from any platform in news media or social media, exclusion from employment, and purge of all dissenting thought, even Democrat thought, that doesn't follow the party line. Just ask Tulsi Gabbard about that one, or Nicholas Sandmann, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Pam Bondi, or the hundreds of attackss on Republicans for thingsa as simple as wearing a MAGA hat. Control of all three branches would bring about a Democrat-led purge in the U.S. akin to the Great Terror of the French Revolution.

It is not the with the slightest exagerration that I refer to the Democrats as the Bolshevik party. Intimidation, violence, slander, whatever serves the Revolution. Mob rule, authoritarian and vindictive use of power. The complete abandonment of rule of law.

What occurred for 8 years under Obama (the IRS targeting conservatives, "Fast and Furious" running guns by ATF to Mexican drug cartels, illegal FISA warrants on the Trump campaign...), and that Trump has attempted to turn away from, to restore rule of law and trust in government.


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man

There's more than a whiff of scandal here WB, I would think even you would have to admit that. Trump asked a foreign government to investigate the political rival he views as his biggest threat. Plus it looks like he had his personal lawyer running some type of shadow state department. If they have facts and testimony that actually cleared them of wrongdoing than why the effort to shut down the inquiry and lack of cooperation? And even the Trump administration passed on the IRS thing. When I read up on it I can see why. It was a fake scandal but a very good one for tax cheats as the GOP cut its funding.


Again, that's complete horseshit. There is nothing proven by Democrats, the speculation requires a lot of reading into the facts what is not evidently there. Just because Trump said "Do me a favor..." to the Ukranian president doesn't add up to intimidation or "quid pro quo". The transcript of the call, the statements of Ukranian president Zelenskyy, the Schiff-kangaroo-court statements of the U.S. envoy and U.S. ambassador, all attest to the fact there was NOT coercion, intimidation, or "quid pro quo".

Democrats lyingly allege that Trump witheld funds to intimidate Zelenskyy to give up incriminating records about Biden, but Zelenskyy, as well as both U.S. and Ukranian officials, have ALL verified that while there was a delay in funds to Ukraine, it was for confirming there was no Ukranian corruption, and that Zelenskyy was completely unaware of the delay.

Wouldn't the purpose of hypothetical intimdation be to make the Ukranians aware of the delay in U.S. funds? There was no awareness made, in Trump's call to Zelenskyy, or through any of his officials. It's Democrats chasing windmills. it's a lie.
After three years of lies by the Democrats about Trump. Every allegation proven, usually within days, to be false.

When will you admit that?

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 6:06 AM


And gee, it's just the weirdest of coincidences that Hunter Biden's contracts related to his father's political position go all the way back to when Joseph Biden was a Delaware Senator. Delaware has a reputation as a very corrupt state. Biden's largest political backer there was credit card company (technically, they call themselves a bank) is/was MBNA. MBNA is now a subsidiary of Bank of America. But after huge political contributions to Joseph Biden (in exchange for billions in favors) they also employed Hunter Biden in those years as an executive vice president for over $100,000 a year.

Hunter Biden also got his position on the board of Amtrak for the same reason, his father's political influence.
Now that's, some "quid pro quo" for you. If you were willing to acknowledge it.
But no, apparently in your eyes, only Republicans can be corrupt or warrant investigation or prosecution.


HUNTER BIDEN'S PAST BUSINESS ASSOCIATIONS COME UNDER SCRUTINY, AS DEMOCRAT PRIMARY DEBATE LOOMS

 Quote:
Hunter Biden's past business dealings at home and abroad are increasingly coming under scrutiny, as the former vice president's son broke his silence in a nationally televised interview this morning -- and 12 Democratic presidential candidates are preparing to debate Tuesday evening in Ohio.

Speaking to ABC's "Good Morning America," Biden maintained he did nothing improper in serving on the board of a Ukrainian gas company but acknowledged it was "poor judgment" on his part. In his first interview since his overseas business dealings came under scrutiny, Biden said he did not discuss the board seat with his father except for one "brief exchange" that was previously reported.

Although President Trump repeatedly has hammered Hunter Biden's ties to China and Ukraine, the latest cloud of suspicion came as Republicans pointed to resurfaced 2008 reports in The New York Times and The American Spectator. The articles, written as Barack Obama and John McCain vied for the White House, found that Hunter Biden received consulting fees from the financial services company MBNA from 2001 to 2005 -- while his father, then a senator, was pushing successfully for legislation that would make it harder for consumers to file for bankruptcy protection.

The precise amount of the payments was unclear, but a company official once said Hunter Biden was receiving at least a $100,000 per year retainer, the Times reported. Hunter Biden, now 49, previously had been an executive at MBNA beginning in 1996, but the consulting fees came years after his departure from the company as a full-time employee.

Aides to then-presidential candidate Barack Obama at the time denied that any lobbying had occurred, and insisted the payments were proper.

However, that explanation was treated with skepticism. On Monday, the Trump campaign posted a contemporaneous interview in which an incredulous Tom Brokaw asked Joe Biden whether it was "inappropriate" for the then-senator to have his son "collecting money from this big credit card company while you were on the [Senate] floor protecting its interests."

Hunter Biden's previous work as an executive at MBNA from 1996 to 1998 also has raised what critics called red flags.

Rachel Mullen, a former senior personal banking officer at MBNA from 1994-2001 who later went into Republican politics, tweeted Monday that managers referred to the younger Biden as "Senator MBNA" after he was hired into a lucrative management-prep track right after he graduated from Yale Law School.

An MBNA source who previously worked at the company told Fox News on Monday that other employees heard Biden boasting that his salary was unusually high, even for the management-prep track -- which was widely seen in the company as a way to groom and pamper well-connected executive candidates with powerful family members.

The source said Biden's "Senator MBNA" nickname was not politically motivated, but rather reflected a widely held belief among managers -- who did not work directly with Biden -- that he essentially was engaged in lobbying.
In a January 2008 article entitled "The Senator from MBNA," columnist Byron York recounted how then-MBNA vice chairman John Cochran paid "top dollar" for Biden's home in February 1996, just prior to his Senate re-election bid, and that "MBNA gave Cochran a lot of money—$330,000—to help with 'expenses' related to the move."

The $1.2M sale was a "pretty darned good deal for Biden," York wrote, noting that "Cochran simply paid Biden’s full asking price" even though the "house needed quite a bit of work; contractors and their trucks descended on the house for months after the purchase."

Asked how Cochran and Biden found each other for the sale, an MBNA spokesperson told York: "That’s a very personal question."

Federal election records also showed top MBNA executives apparently made a "concerted" effort to donate to Biden's campaign, York reported.

It remained unclear whether, and to what extent, the resurfaced accounts of possible misconduct by the Bidens could affect the 2020 presidential race. An ABC News interview with Hunter Biden is set to air beginning Tuesday, and the issue might come up during Tuesday night's presidential primary debate.

Under intense scrutiny from Republicans, Hunter Biden announced this past Sunday he will step down from the board of directors of a Chinese-backed private equity firm at the end of the month as part of a pledge not to work on behalf of any foreign-owned companies should his father win the presidency. At the same time, the Bidens have denied wrongdoing.

Biden revealed his plan in an Internet post written by his attorney, George Mesires, who outlined a defense of the younger Biden’s work in Ukraine and China, which has emerged as one of Trump’s chief lines of attack against Hunter’s father.

"Hunter makes the following commitment: Under a Biden Administration, Hunter will readily comply with any and all guidelines or standards a President Biden may issue to address purported conflicts of interest, or the appearance of such conflicts, including any restrictions related to overseas business interests. In any event, Hunter will agree not to serve on boards of, or work on behalf of, foreign-owned companies," Mesires wrote.

He continued: "He will continue to keep his father personally uninvolved in his business affairs, while availing himself as necessary and appropriate to the Office of the White House Counsel to help inform his application of the Biden Administration’s guidelines or standards to his business decision-making."

From late 2013 through this month, Hunter Biden has served on the board of BHR (Shanghai) Equity Investment Fund Management Company, which was "formed with the stated intent to invest Chinese capital outside of China." Mesires insisted Biden's initial role was that of an unpaid member of the board and that in October 2017, Biden "committed to invest approximately $420,000 USD to acquire a 10 percent equity position in BHR, which he still holds."

Separately, Joe Biden has acknowledged on camera that in spring 2016, when he was vice president and spearheading the Obama administration's Ukraine policy, he successfully pressured Ukraine to fire top prosecutor Viktor Shokin. At the time, Shokin was investigating Burisma Holdings — where Hunter had a lucrative role on the board despite limited relevant expertise. Shokin also was widely accused of corruption.

Critics alleged Hunter Biden, in effect, might have been selling access to his father, who had pushed Ukraine to increase its natural gas production.

"Impossible to justify $50k/month for Hunter Biden serving on a Ukrainian energy board w zero expertise unless he promised to sell access," political scientist Ian Bremmer tweeted.


How much more proof do you need?


It should also be pointed out that John Kerry's stepson was part of Hunter Biden's equity firm, and got out because of the new account with Burisma holdings, and even talked to people in his father's State Department because of his concerns about its illegality.

As I posted another article about earlier in the topic.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 6:23 AM



HUNTER BIDEN SERVED ON AMTRAK BOARD


 Quote:
by Beth Baumann, Oct 15 2019


We know that Hunter Biden sat on the board for Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, despite having no natural gas experience. He was being paid $50,000 a month for his "contributions" to the board (whatever those may be) while his father, then-Vice President Joe Biden, was handling affairs with Ukraine on behalf of the Obama administration.

We know that MBNA, a Delaware-based banking company, hired Hunter straight out of law school. Then-Sen. Biden had received campaign contributions from the company during previous elections and was even working on a bill MBNA backed.

Now, it turns out that Hunter received a position on Amtrak's board of directors in 2006. His qualification? He rode trains...a lot.

According to the Washington Free Beacon, the revelation came about when Sen. Tom Carpenter (D-DE) offered the sole nomination speech for Hunter in front of the Senate Commerce Committee.

"Hunter will be an excellent addition to the Amtrak Board. He is a graduate of Georgetown and Yale. He has served as senior vice president at MBNA America and as executive director of e-commerce policy coordination at the U.S. Department of Commerce. And, five years ago, he founded a law firm here in D.C. that now represents over 100 clients, mostly nonprofit organizations and educational institutions," Carpenter said.

Here's where Hunter's real qualification come in.

"But more significantly, Hunter has spent a lot of time on Amtrak trains," Carpenter said. "Like his father, Rep. Mike Castle and myself, Hunter Biden has lived in Delaware while using Amtrak to commute to his job in Washington, D.C. You learn a lot about what works and what could work better at Amtrak by riding those trains. You also see the huge economic benefit that a region receives from having a strong passenger rail corridor – something that should be available in more of the count."

Hunter admitted it was highly unlikely that he would have received positions on any board of directors, including Burisma, if his last name wasn't Biden.

“I don’t know. I don’t know, probably not,” he said. “You know, I don’t think there’s a lot of things that would have happened in my life if my last name wasn’t Biden.”





Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 8:34 AM
Actually Biden just came out with some anti corruption plans that would raise the bar that Trump has lowered for his children. Yeah I get that Hunter Biden made money and got jobs because of his last name but the Trump's also have a long history of that.

And none of that doesn't change the fact that Trump asked a foreign country for the favor of investigating somebody he views as his biggest political rival. And it looks like the House is getting the testimony that backs up that there was more going on than just that phone call too. It's a little surreal that you can't see that as not being obviously corrupt but also buy into that it must not be investigated.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 7:28 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually Biden just came out with some anti corruption plans that would raise the bar that Trump has lowered for his children. Yeah I get that Hunter Biden made money and got jobs because of his last name but the Trump's also have a long history of that.

And none of that doesn't change the fact that Trump asked a foreign country for the favor of investigating somebody he views as his biggest political rival. And it looks like the House is getting the testimony that backs up that there was more going on than just that phone call too. It's a little surreal that you can't see that as not being obviously corrupt but also buy into that it must not be investigated.



\:lol\:

Are you joking, that you buy that?!?
Ohhh, now that me and my son HAVE BEEN CAUGHT making millions corruptly selling my office while I was Vice President, NOW I promise that won't happen again if I'm elected president. Honest! Scouts' honor !

Give me a frigging break.



And again, the Trumps have handed their businesses over to others to manage while they serve publicly. Eric Trump this week on Martha McCallum, and again on Laura Ingraham's program, has said that his family has lost hundreds of millions on potential deals they have forsaken while serving publicly. Ivanka Trump has closed her formerly thriving business completely.

Just amazing, the double standard you hold the Trumps to, that you don't hold Democrats to.

Several other names you should look up, insider-trading stocks and other property deals they've made millions on in conflict of interest deals while holding high office:

Nancy Pelosi
Harry Reid
and of course, Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 8:12 PM
Please cite where the Trumps have divested themselves from their business? I googled this just yesterday and Trump hasn't done what all other previous presidents have done in the past to divest himself from his business. And when you spend time here defending Trump's decision to have the G-7 at his own resort or pressing a foreign country to try to dig up dirt on his political rival you think those are not obvious double standards?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 8:46 PM
Trump criticizes the Bidens but his own family's business raises questions

"The unavoidable difference is the fact that Donald Trump right now has two adult sons who are traveling the world and the country, running a business that not only they benefit from, but that the president of the United States is profiting from," Maguire said. "There is no parallel for that."
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 9:03 PM
Oh and in other impeachment news Mulvaney confirmed there was a quid pro quo and told everyone to get over it. Apparently team trump thought it was all wonderful and you can now buy "get over it" tees. That was yesterday though and today Mulvaney is trying to say what he clearly said was being misinterpreted. I watched Wallace on Fox this morning and it wasn't pretty.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 9:52 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Please cite where the Trumps have divested themselves from their business? I googled this just yesterday and Trump hasn't done what all other previous presidents have done in the past to divest himself from his business.



https://fortune.com/2017/01/11/donald-trump-business-separation/

 Quote:
President-elect Donald Trump is separating himself from his far-flung global business empire by transferring all assets into a trust and putting his two sons, Eric and Donald Jr., in charge, a Trump lawyer said on Wednesday.

Along with plans to hire an ethics adviser, Trump is taking the steps to avoid inevitable questions about a potential conflict of interest between his businesses and the office of the presidency, although his lawyer insisted he was not required to take them.

Republican Trump, who is to be sworn in on Jan. 20, has been under pressure to take these steps before he moves into the White House.

Trump operates a variety of golf resorts and hotels around the world. The lawyer, who spoke to a small group of reporters on condition of anonymity, said all profits generated at Trump‘s hotels by foreign governments will be donated to the U.S. Treasury.

Trump is to resign from all positions he holds with Trump Organization entities, and his daughter, Ivanka, is to have no further involvement with management authority in the group.

Ivanka Trump is the wife of Jared Kushner, who Trump has appointed to a senior advisory role in the White House.

The Trump Organization will not enter any new deals while Trump is president, according to the lawyer.

Since Trump sold all his stocks last year, the Trump trust is to hold only liquid assets such as cash and business operating assets, the lawyer said.

Many ethics experts had urged Trump to completely divest or set up a blind trust for his assets. The lawyer said Trump opted against these steps because it was not a realistic possibility.

Trump was aided in setting up the trust by lawyer Fred Fielding, a former White House counsel to Republican presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

Interviews are being conducted in the search for an ethics adviser for the trust, the lawyer said.

“The written approval of the ethics adviser will be required for new deals, actions and transactions that could potentially raise ethics or conflict of interests concerns,” the lawyer said.

Trump has terminated all pending business deals to clear the way for becoming president. His access to information about his businesses will be sharply limited, the lawyer said.

The moratorium on new deals does not apply to contracts that are entered into by the Trump Organization and its affiliates in the ordinary course of business.
Remaining debt will stay in place and will be dealt with during the ordinary course of business, the lawyer said.


Wow. That took me all of... 2 minutes.

Trump was putting in place an ethical way to set aside his businesses, even before he was inaaugurated. And considering his personal wealth at that time was roughly $4 billion in property, cash and other assets, that is quite a task to try and set aside altogether.


Compare that to the unethical practices of Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Joe Biden and son Hunter Biden, and Biden's brother who also secured deals based on the influence of his brother while Joe Biden was still vice president.
That's quite a double standard you have there, M E M.
Trump is under suspicion while endeavoring to do everything ethically. And when Democrats are guilty of insider trading and securing lucrative positions for their relatives by bribery and intimidation and abusing their government position, you don't even think that warrants the slightest investigation.




 Originally Posted By: M E M
...And when you spend time here defending Trump's decision to have the G-7 at his own resort...


Again, visibly and above board, AT COST! Trump wanted his facilities used because they were beyond dispute the nicest ones in the region for the G-7 event.

But to avoid the slightest possible appearance of impropriety, and to deprive the Democratss and liberal media of lying talking points they could twist it into, he cancelled the use of his Doral hotel for the event.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-doral-resort-out-2020-g7-summit



 Originally Posted By: M E M
...or pressing a foreign country to try to dig up dirt on his political rival you think those are not obvious double standards?


You are using the Moscow Central Committee tactic of repeating a lie so often that it takes on the appearance of being true.

As I said, the evidence is that Joseph Biden did that, intimidating the Ukranian president into firing his attorney general, by threatening to withold $1 billion in U.S. aid to Ukraine if he didn't, and Biden OPENLY BOASTED ABOUT DOING SO, ON CAMERA.

Likewise as I listed above, where >>>DEMOCRAT<<< Senators Menendez, Leahy and Durbin sent a threatening letter to the Ukranian government for compromising information about Trump before the 2016 election.

And let it not be forgotten that the Hillary Clinton campaign >>>AND<<< the DNC paid millions to Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS/Christopher Steele (a former British foreign agent), to get dirt for their Russia Dossier directly from Russian agents, two of them high-level Russian intelligence officials, for which the Democrats paid MILLIONS to Russian officials.

It's absolutely amazing that you can allege this stuff about Trump, when ALL the evidence is there to show Democrats clearly did with a clear paper and money trail and plenty of witnesses, what they allege with mere smoke and mirrors about Trump.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 10:09 PM
A trust that isn't blind and one he can withdraw funds from I might note. Not really a solution there to avoid conflicts of interests. I also would add that we only have the liar's word on a lot of what he announced back than.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 10:35 PM


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
A trust that isn't blind and one he can withdraw funds from I might note. Not really a solution there to avoid conflicts of interests. I also would add that we only have the liar's word on a lot of what he announced back than.


Again, it's infuriating the standards you hold Trump to, who is making every effort to follow ethical guidlines.
Even as you simultaneously give a free pass to the blatant corruption and criminality of the Democrats I've cited, and many more Democrats. Your allegations might have the slightest weight, if you held your fellow Democrats to the same standard and investigation.

Trump has clearly sacrificed hundreds of millions in potential business, has cancelled aany foreign deals, has set aside any foreign profits and donated them to the U.S. treasury, has put others in charge of managing his business, and has set up an attorney to run any necessary transactions through, to avoid even the slightest appearance of being potentially unethical.

I mean, geez, what do you want?

Meanwhile, Hunter Biden has collected at least 3.5 million from Ukraine for a job he should have never had, secured only because of V.P.Biden's influence, and will collect at least another $20 million from China in the near future, again for a job he should never have had, but for Vice President Biden selling his office to China. Michael Pillsbury reported on Lou Dobbs that Biden had hawkish rhetoric against China up until Hunter Biden secured his $1.5 billion bank investment from China (and $20 million payoff).

At precisely that point, Biden softened his rhetoric toward China, and U.S. naval ships were ordered to stop patrolling the South China Sea they had previously patrolled. And at Biden's pressure, F-16's on order to be received by Taiwan were suddenly cancelled.

That's a pretty good look at what Asian policy would look like under Biden, or any of the current crop of 2010 Democrat candidates. Cultural marxists one and all, who:
* all want to appease China,
* to de-criminalize illegal immigration (and thus exploding it),
* to decrease military spending (when Trump took office, 50% of our air force was grounded by mechanical problems and unready for combat, and Democrats still wanted to further slash military spending!),
* to provide health insurance to illegal immigrants
* and basically, on every level, to undermine police and enforcement, to enable crime, to weaken our borders and sovereignty, to further bankrupt the country with crushing new debt and spending, to undermine capitalism and transfer all power to an authoritarian permanent Democrat government, and purge all republican power and dissenting thought. I've already abundantly linked and quoted the supporting evidence for all the above. There is not speculation, this is what Democrats have clearly said, and done, at every opportunity. They don't even pretend otherwise anymore.

The party that hates America. Democrats have officially become the Bolshevik party.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-20 10:52 PM
Apparently holding Trump to any standard is infuriating to you. Sorry I actually love my country, it's sad that you even go there. Principles and ethics like love of country are not owned by either party. When Trump uses his office to pressure a foreign country to investigate his political rivals or chooses his own properties to host an event like the G-7 and you're playing defense for him, I'm not the one with a problem.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-23 1:06 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Apparently holding Trump to any standard is infuriating to you. Sorry I actually love my country, it's sad that you even go there. Principles and ethics like love of country are not owned by either party. When Trump uses his office to pressure a foreign country to investigate his political rivals or chooses his own properties to host an event like the G-7 and you're playing defense for him, I'm not the one with a problem.


I don't see any facts or logical arguments in that little tantrum.


Here in about 6 minutes Rep. Jim Jordan perfectly deconstructs the incredible confluence of odd and incestuous related facts and people surrounding the "whistleblower"/informant/spy/rat who filed the coup attemt disguised as a "whistleblower report". The endless connections still unravelling that lead to the Deep State, the office of Rep. Adam Schiff, and especially to the CIA and broader Deep State intelligence community (FBI, CIA, DNI, DOJ, and State Department) and the DNC/Hillary Clinton campaign, Obama administration, and ultimately intertwined with the Russians and Ukranians, who they, the Democrats, and their Deep State operatives DIRECTLY PAID AND COERCED/BLACKMAILED/COLLUDED with to frame Republicans.

Jordan reacts to Democrats killing GOP bid to censure Schiff -Monday, Oct 21, 2019, interviewed on Lou Dobbs


Everything Democrats are accusing Trump of, they the Democrats are guilty of themselves, with overwhelming evidence. Only by selective omission is the media not reporting it.
Sara Carter and John Solomon are the Woodward and Bernstein of our times, exposing this corruption. And since Pulitzer prizes are handed out by the establishment/Left, it is doubtful they will ever be credited with exposing this Democrat/Deep State corruption. God knows the Democrats and liberal media have done their damnedest to hide and suppress the true facts, and intiumidate those who would report it.

And if Hillary Clinton had been elected, it would have been buried, none of this would ever have come to light. But it DID come to light, despite your side's best efforts to hide the truth.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-23 1:30 AM



More to the point, M E M, your side, the treaonous vicious Democrats, called Tulsi Gabbard (a House member and decorated Major in the U.S. military) a "Russian asset".
Let that sink in for a minute. Hillary Clinton called this officer a traitor, based on no evidence, and the talking heads (in the video I linked above) on MSNBC and CNN similarly, based on nothing, were eager to back Hillary up on that vicious attack as well. And apparently, you as well are piling on that vicious attack.

And then you have the audacity to say Trump and Republicans are traitors, and the Democrats, liberal media and you are the true patriots?!?
Listen again to jesse Watters' comments linked above. Your party since the 1940's has been the party that's been soft on and sympathetic to communists for over 70 years.

If you've forgotten the facts on that, let Ann Coulter remind you:

"MCCARTHYISM: THE ROSETTA STONE OF LIBERAL LIES"
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2007-11-07.html

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 and the Kremlin records were opened, all the facts showed that McCarthy was right, that there were communst spies everywhere, and the complacency of Democrats is what enabled them.
Democrats like William Ayers, John Kerry, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and Jane Fonda, sided with the Communists in protest against their own country.
House Democrats in the Iraq war wanted to de-fund our troops in Iraq to force George W. Bush to bring them home in defeat.

For over 70 years, Democrats have been the party of undermining our troops in the field, siding with our enemies, and the very moral right of the U.S. to exist as a nation.
And you have the audacity to talk about patriotism. It's your party that shits on patriotism every day. Abolishing Columbus Day and replacing it with "Indigenous Peoples' Day", tearing down monuments to Washington, Jefferson and other national heroes, wanting to stack to Supreme Court with liberals who ignore precedent, wanting to eliminate the Electoral College. Yours is the party of Constitution-overthrowing globalism.
And you have the audacity to call others "Russian assets" and brand yourselves as the true patriots.
Whatever serves the Revolution, I guess.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-23 3:16 AM
Wow. Anyhoo today's testimony by the diplomat of Ukraine (Taylor) wasn't good for Trump. Ukrain was obviously being pressured to help Trump with his campaign. This diplomat details what was going on. I think it's a fairly safe bet that Trump will be impeached. What the senate does with it will be interesting to say the least.

"“In August and September of this year, I became increasingly concerned that our relationship with Ukraine was being fundamentally undermined by an irregular informal channel of U.S. policy-making and by the withholding of vital security assistance for domestic political reasons,” Taylor testified, according to a copy of his remarks obtained by The Post. Taylor said President Trump himself made the release of military aid to Ukraine contingent on a public declaration by Ukraine’s president that the country would investigate Joe and Hunter Biden and the 2016 election."
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-25 4:27 AM
So yesterday a bunch of republicans stormed the impeachment inquiry. That didn't happen when Lindsey Graham was having closed door depositions during the Clinton impeachment.

The impeachment inquiry will become public very soon and who really thinks that was actually the issue?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-25 9:25 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
So yesterday a bunch of republicans stormed the impeachment inquiry. That didn't happen when Lindsey Graham was having closed door depositions during the Clinton impeachment.

The impeachment inquiry will become public very soon and who really thinks that was actually the issue?



Levin calls out Democrats' 'tyrannical' impeachment process -on Hannity, Thursday, Oct 24 2019


In about 9 minutes, former Reagan-era DOJ chief of staff Mark Levin sums up the written protocol of the impeachment proceedings for each of the 3 past House proceedings for the impeachments of Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton, in which impeachments a FULL House vote each time before proceeding, giving full open public disclosure to BOTH parties, EQUAL powers to subpoena witnesses, EQUAL powers to both sides to call and cross-examine witnesses, and all tesimony in full open disclosure to the public.

As sharply contrasted with Rep. Adam Schiff's locking the process in his judiciary committee, and only the Democrat half of the committee, without a vote of the full 435-member House, only in the Democrat portion of the Judiciary committee, NOT allowing Republicans equal access to subpoena power and witnesses, not even allowing Republicans transcripts of witness testimony after the fact!

Bill Clinton was given representation by the Republican majority in 1998, that House Democrats in control are NOT giving Donald Trump.
Through selective Democrat leaks of only limited portions of U.S.- Ukranian ambassador Taylor's testimony, NOT his entire testimony, Democrats make it APPEAR to support impeachment, in the absence of disclosing Taylor's full testimony.

Why is Donald Trump not entitled to the same rights and full open disclosure that was given to presidents Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton?

The goal of Democrats are one-sided non-bipartisan closed door proceedings and selective leaks, to poison public opinion for as many weeks or months as possible, so that when at some point full disclosure occurs, public opnion will already be tainted by the propagandized partial facts. So that when full House disclosure occurs, the true facts will be eclipsed and no longer listened to.

Yeah, so much for bipartisan and open disclosure. What Democrats are engaged in is a one-sided is a Soviet-style secret court, leaking only what is advantageous to their side, with no possible defense by Republicans, or even access to the full witness testimony or cross examination for exculpatory facts to clear Trump.

As Levin himself says, terrorists and prosecuted criminals are treated better legally than the rules Democrats have set up now.

Wow, indeed.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-25 2:38 PM
But Nixon & Clinton both started out with witnesses giving testimony behind closed doors. The House is gathering the facts for this one and there will be public testimony and a vote. This is all being done with republican members on those committees having equal time to ask witnesses questions. This is all within the rules that republicans actually used during the Benghazi investigation. Considering you have no problem with Trump pressuring a foreign country to investigate his political rivals I fail to see how you can have a real issue with this but I doubt you'll be happy when the testimony becomes public. It's really about protecting a corrupt president.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-25 5:13 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
But Nixon & Clinton both started out with witnesses giving testimony behind closed doors. The House is gathering the facts for this one and there will be public testimony and a vote. This is all being done with republican members on those committees having equal time to ask witnesses questions. This is all within the rules that republicans actually used during the Benghazi investigation. Considering you have no problem with Trump pressuring a foreign country to investigate his political rivals I fail to see how you can have a real issue with this but I doubt you'll be happy when the testimony becomes public. It's really about protecting a corrupt president.


Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton both had clear charges and evidence against them before there were any hearings of witnesses and evidence.

In contrast, Democrats have held very one-sided proceedings. Clearly, they are hell-bent of manufacturing whatever case they can against Trump, truth be damned. Democrats have ignored the past precedent of establishing highly visible bipartisanship.
Quite the opposite, EVERYTHING the Democrats have done so far has been an exercise in corrupt use of their power. There is no Democrat interest in the truth displayed here, framing Trump by any means is their only concern.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-26 4:01 AM
Well if you're good with Trump asking a foreign country to investigate his political rivals than we have different definitions of what corruption truly is. The democrats are gathering the evidence and testimony in the best way to prevent witnesses from aligning stories. When their done gathering the facts the inquiry will become public. Given how team Trump operates I think their being smart. I've been reading the bits of testimony and it's more than just Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden. It looks like they have him on withholding the foreign aid money to try to help him beat Biden in '20.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-26 1:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Well if you're good with Trump asking a foreign country to investigate his political rivals than we have different definitions of what corruption truly is.



Well, as said above...

 Originally Posted By: M E M
...or pressing a foreign country to try to dig up dirt on his political rival you think those are not obvious double standards?


 Originally Posted By: WB
You are using the Moscow Central Committee tactic of repeating a lie so often that it takes on the appearance of being true.

As I said, the evidence is that Joseph Biden did that, intimidating the Ukranian president into firing his attorney general, by threatening to withold $1 billion in U.S. aid to Ukraine if he didn't, and Biden OPENLY BOASTED ABOUT DOING SO, ON CAMERA.

Likewise as I listed above, where >>>DEMOCRAT<<< Senators Menendez, Leahy and Durbin sent a threatening letter to the Ukranian government for compromising information about Trump before the 2016 election.

And let it not be forgotten that the Hillary Clinton campaign >>>AND<<< the DNC paid millions to Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS/Christopher Steele (a former British foreign agent), to get dirt for their Russia Dossier directly from Russian agents, two of them high-level Russian intelligence officials, for which the Democrats paid MILLIONS to Russian officials.

It's absolutely amazing that you can allege this stuff about Trump, when ALL the evidence is there to show Democrats clearly did with a clear paper and money trail and plenty of witnesses, what they allege with mere smoke and mirrors about Trump.



You seem immune to those facts.



 Originally Posted By: M E M
The democrats are gathering the evidence and testimony in the best way to prevent witnesses from aligning stories. When their done gathering the facts the inquiry will become public.


No. The Democrats are hiding testimony, and with smoke and mirrors and selective leaks of testimony outside of its full context, creating a deliberate false narrative about Trump. While simultaneously avoiding any equal justice against far more blatant abuses by Democrats. As in the examples of what I just posted above.
Democrats and Republicans should be held to the same standard, not weaponizing justice by Democrats to destroy Republicans, just to gain power.


 Originally Posted By: M E M
Given how team Trump operates I think their being smart. I've been reading the bits of testimony and it's more than just Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden. It looks like they have him on withholding the foreign aid money to try to help him beat Biden in '20.


The full transcript of the phone call between Trump and Zelensky says otherwise. There was no misconduct by Trump.
Multiple televised interviews of Ukranian president Zelenskyy say otherwise. There was no misconduct by Trump.

Multiple deposed witnesses by House Democrats (behind closed doors, to manipulate their testimony, but the truth comes out anyway) also demonstrate there was no misconduct by Trump.
Democrats cling to the slightest illusion, crafted by misdirection and false context to imply otherwise. There is no misconduct by Trump.

The beauty of it is, everything Democrats accuse Trump of, is what Democrats themselves have done. But Democrats corruptly protect their own from prosecution or even from investigation. The double standard of Democrats is just incredible.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-26 3:49 PM



FORMER FBI OFFICIAL JAMES BAKER HAS FLIPPED, COOPERATING WITH BARR INVESTIGATION






Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-27 5:09 AM
You have a very liberal interpretation of that transcript of the call. He specifically brings up Biden being investigated. And the testimony by the diplomats backs up that the aid was being withheld by Trump to try to smear Biden. Does it make sense to you that he's trying to block testimony and records that would support his story?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-27 3:06 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You have a very liberal interpretation of that transcript of the call. He specifically brings up Biden being investigated. And the testimony by the diplomats backs up that the aid was being withheld by Trump to try to smear Biden. Does it make sense to you that he's trying to block testimony and records that would support his story?



No, it doesn't. As many times as you repeat that lie.

Trump, as part of his oath as president to defend the Constitution and fully execute our laws, has every right to request information about criminal actions that originate from Ukraine, regarding matters of corrupt use of U.S. finds by the Bidens, and that were corruptly used to sabotage Trump in the 2016 election.

Regarding the allegedly hacked DNC server, that was suspiciously never handed over to or requested by the Democrat-loyalist FBI for examination, it was just accepted without evidence that it was hacked, without evidence ever gathered by the FBI to verify it was hacked, or what specifically was hacked. Trump requested information about that.

Likewise, Trump requesting information about Ukraine's participation in the "Russia Dossier/Fusion GPS. Information that the Ukranian government had attempted to inform the DOJ and FBI about previously, ignored by the partisan Democrat-loyalist FBI. Trump simply made clear that we did want that evidence, and that under new DOJ maanagement (William Barr) it will not be ignored this time.
I would also argue that Giuliani went to Ukraine to obtain information directly for the same reason, because the DOJ and FBI were not forthcoming with exculpatory evidence for him to protect his client, President Trump, and without that cooperation from FBI/DOJ, he had every right to go to Ukraine and gather that evidence directly from the source.

Likewise with the Bidens. That was an ongoing case long before Trump's request, evidence previously not investigated by DOJ/FBI and it required no coercion for Zelenskyy to send it. Trump could have avoided throwing the Democrats a talking point by only mentioning Burisma, but Trump violates no laws by simply mentioning the centerpiece of the investigation. It's not like Trump said hey, I might be running against Biden, send me any information that might help me win. No, he simply said these people are part of an investigation, send me whatever information you can to assist the DOJ investigation.

And finally, what you allege about the ambassadors' testimony is only what appears to be the case, within the narrow context of the partial transcript that the lying Democrats released, RELEASING ONLY THE PORTION THAT SELLS THEIR LYING NARRATIVE, *NOT* THE FULL TRANSCRIBED TESTIMONY.

Even the Republican House members on the judiciary committee are not able to attend the testimony in Schiff's hearings, to ask questions and cross examine, and examine the witnesses testifying, to determine whether their body language indicates they are lying or telling the truth. To a man and woman, I've yet to see any who give the appearance of NOT being career bureaucrats who are Democrat/deep state loyalists hostile to the president and trying to undermine him. The ones who are loyal to Trump are the ones reluctant to testify and violate Trump's executive privelege and confidentiality.

There is no logical reason why Republicans cannot attend the hearings, no top secret matters are discussed. And the irony with Democrats is they hold these meetings in secure conference (SCIF) rooms, and then the Democrats come out and leak whatever "top secret" testimony aids their lying propaganda campaign. The reporters wait for these daily leaks right outside the SCIF room! To anyone but a partisan Democrat, these hearings are a joke, and a perverse twisting of legal procedure.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-27 3:12 PM




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court

 Quote:
A kangaroo court is a court that ignores recognized standards of law or justice, and often carries little or no official standing in the territory within which it resides.[1] The term may also apply to a court held by a legitimate judicial authority who intentionally disregards the court's legal or ethical obligations. The defendants in such courts are often denied access to legal representation and in some cases, proper defence and the right of appeal.

Prejudicial bias of the decision-maker or from political decree are among the most publicized causes of kangaroo courts.[citation needed] Such proceedings are often held to give the appearance of a fair and just trial, even though the verdict was already decided before the trial actually began.

A kangaroo court could also develop when the structure and operation of the forum result in an inferior brand of adjudication. A common example of this is when institutional disputants ("repeat players") have excessive and unfair structural advantages over individual disputants ("one-shot players").[2]
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-27 3:23 PM



Watthers' World 10-26-2019 Saturday


Jesse Watters summed up well the abusive one-sidedness and secretiveness of the Democrats' House judicial committee hearings under Rep. Adam Schiff, the blatant dishonesty.



Judge Jeannine 10-26-2019


Just after her opening comment, her interview with Rep. Andy Biggs (from roughly 7:00 to 16:00) goes into great detail in how Democrats are abusing procedure, and threatening Republicans with costly lawsuits and legal fees if they even object. Just as they did with Rep. Devin Nunes a year ago. Incredible Democrat abuse of power.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-27 4:31 PM
WSJ: Sondland testified that it was a quid pro quo

I've noticed that some conservatives are making the argument that Trump needs to stop trying to argue that it wasn't a quid pro quo because it obviously was and the House has the evidence. The argument should be that it's not an impeachable offense. Such a gross corrupt use of power though still leaves Trump getting impeached.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-28 7:32 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
WSJ: Sondland testified that it was a quid pro quo

I've noticed that some conservatives are making the argument that Trump needs to stop trying to argue that it wasn't a quid pro quo because it obviously was and the House has the evidence. The argument should be that it's not an impeachable offense. Such a gross corrupt use of power though still leaves Trump getting impeached.


You so desperately want it to be true. Kurt Volker's testimony, and texts, already disproved this before it was even alleged.

The Next Revolution, Steve Hilton Sunday, 10-27-2019


This is just pure vindictive Democrat politics, with a few never-Trumpers from the establishment Right piling on. But wishful thinking by Dems won't make it true. Hilton's commentary 20 minutes in rips apart the argument you'd like to believe.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-28 8:42 AM
I'm not the one painting an entire side as anything that suits someone 's propagandist needs at the moment. If I think the news sucks I can't dismiss it by declaring it fake. Accusations are not facts because I want them to be. Sondland' testimony like Taylor's show there was a push by Trump to pressure a country to investigate the guy Trump knows can beat him in the upcoming election. You've made allegations of corruption for far less than that. Now it's different because?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-28 11:04 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I'm not the one painting an entire side as anything that suits someone 's propagandist needs at the moment. If I think the news sucks I can't dismiss it by declaring it fake. Accusations are not facts because I want them to be. Sondland' testimony like Taylor's show there was a push by Trump to pressure a country to investigate the guy Trump knows can beat him in the upcoming election. You've made allegations of corruption for far less than that. Now it's different because?


It's not "propagandist" to state the quantifiable facts.

I've cited many sources over the years that lay out the incredbile bias of the news media, that prior to Obama's campaign in 2008, news reporters for 50 years up till then had self-identified as consistently 80% "liberal" or "very liberal".

And it's been reported even in the partisan liberal media that reporters largely abandoned objectivity and felt a need to take sides against Republicans and with Obama and other Democrats since then. I've cited case after case of reporters being fired for their activism, where rather than report the news, they have been rabid activists for the idological causes thay were supposed to be objectively covering. I listed half a dozen examples of biased fired reporters in the Occupy Wall Street topic alone.

And now... well... multiple reporters have become unapologetic about it being their holy mission to "stop Trump". They don't even pretend otherwise anymore. The pretense of objectivity they fronted for decades is gone now.

CNN has become a golden monument, the holy altar, of liberal bias. CNN is a joke, whose news coverage could only appear "objective" to the already initiated.

Anderson Cooper in the most recent Democrat primary debate asked Joseph Biden a question about Hunter Biden's corrupt business associations in Ukraine and China, and laughably called the accusations "obviously false". He might as well have been wearing an BIDEN 2020 campaign button when he asked the question.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/sco...sed-your-son-no

Other liberal-biased moderators, that arguably turned an election, include Candy Crowley and Martha Raddatz.
And the liberal media even plays favorites and kicks down Democrat primary candidates, in favor of the ones they want to win, as with Tulsi Gabbard in the last few debates. CNN clearly favors Elizabeth Warren across multiple debates, and consistently gives her more debate-time.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...sed/1884548001/

And internet social media also has aa liberal bias:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tulsi-g...fter-dem-debate

Journalists donated to the Hillary Clinton campaign at a ratio of 96%:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/what-...hillary-clinton

A Harvard study showed that CNN and NBC coverage of Donald Trump is 93% negative. And far more skewed across the entire media, as compared to the media's coverage of President Obama.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/0...ive_410848.html

Those are just a few examples, there are many more:

https://www.mrc.org/media-bias-101

In the 2008 election, 93% of Washington-based journalists supported Obama, a higher ratio of support than ultra-liberal population regions like Boston and San Francisco. Gee, I wonder how that might affect election coverage!
https://ricochet.com/88333/archives/poli...lterman-part-2/

Plus many more examples. Liberal media bias is not even disputed by most liberals.
And it is backed up by quite possibly an even greater bias by teachers and college professors. Which I've also cited and linked. Bill O'Reilly cited on his program a few years ago that at Harvard's political science department, his alma mater, there were 25 liberal professors and not a single conservative on staff.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-29 4:22 AM
I think you way overestimate bias but regardless bias doesn't automatically equate to lies. Bias certainly becomes okay it seems when it's leaning conservative. The House has always had the right to subpoena witnesses and documents. Pelosi is using the same rules republicans used on Clinton via Benghazi. And it is all going to be public very soon. I suspect Trump still isn't going to cooperate because the WH records are not going to help him.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-30 2:27 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I think you way overestimate bias but regardless bias doesn't automatically equate to lies. Bias certainly becomes okay it seems when it's leaning conservative. The House has always had the right to subpoena witnesses and documents. Pelosi is using the same rules republicans used on Clinton via Benghazi. And it is all going to be public very soon. I suspect Trump still isn't going to cooperate because the WH records are not going to help him.



That's an overwhelming consensus of quantifiable liberal media bias, and my above post just cited multiple examples where it does equate to lies.

You are using deceitful arguments to try and rationalize what the Democrats have been doing for the last month. What Democrats are doing is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same standard that was used in the previous impeachments of Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton. All of which were public hearings with clear bipartisanship.

That is absolutely not the same Democrat procedure set for impeaching Trump. Republicans have nbo access to witnesses, they have no freedom to even read transcripts after the fact, while not even able to attend. And then Democrats, while keeping testimony under lock and key in a Secure Conference room (SCIF), leak out small portions to the liberal media that feed the lying narrative they are trying to portray.

Republican House members cannot observe witnesses firsthand in closed testimony.
They cannot see their body language that experience would tell if they were lying.
They cannot cross-examine with their own questions, or test the veracity of witnesses, or gather exculpatory evidence that would exonerate Trump and his officials.
And the American people are denied the ability to see these proceedings with their own eyes.

To get this kind of "freedom" that Democrats are giving us, one would have to time travel to a Soviet court, Castro's Cuba, Che Gueverra's death squads, or Mao's China. Well... Xi's China is actually a step up on the authoritarianism of Mao's China.
And since the Democrat Left exalts all these regimes, we shouldn't be surprised when they unleash the same tactics on America.

Trump is just the beginning. If Democrats could, they would unleash the same authoritarian reign of terror on every American. Even the moderates in their own party. That would be worth popping some popcorn to watch.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-31 5:27 AM
No deceitful arguments required WB. (And what would be the point anyways) Most depositions are not done in the open for very valid reasons. That was true with both the Clinton and Nixon impeachments. If the House stayed with keeping everything behind closed doors that would be great news for Trump supporters but the plan was to move into a public phase soon. I think you will have a tough time justifying Trump's actions.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-31 6:23 AM


Or so the propagandists at CNN, MSNBC and MediaMatters would like us to believe.


Dems push impeachment rules over repeated GOP objections, as exasperation boils over


It was never the standard in past impeachment proceedings that the other side could not call witnesses or ask questions. The previous impeachments were all done with full openess and bipartisan consensus on the rules of proceedings.
That is absolutely NOT the case of what Schiff and Nadler have set up with their respective judicial and intelligence committees.

Democrats today made a written proposal that Republicans can ask questions, but ONLY with permission of a Democrat vote to each question Republicans raise, overseen by Comrade-Commissar Adam Schiff. That has absolutely no precedent, and is completely unacceptable.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-31 6:36 AM
Tough. The rules allow it. But this will become public like you guys said you wanted.

I find it unacceptable that a president used foreign aid to try to force another country to investigate his political rival. Totally corrupt! Let this country watch how many of his party scramble to try to protect that corruption. You're not going to like it out in public.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-10-31 6:54 AM



 Originally Posted By: above linked article


"If the gentleman would hear me out, I suspect we'd find agreement," [Rep. Tom Cole (R-OK)] said, as [Rep. James McGovern (D-MA)] began to interrupt. "Let me stipulate that I am absolutely asking for something that was not given to Democrats in the Clinton inquiry. I was here during the Clinton inquiry I'm absolutely asking for something that was not granted to the minority in that time. But I'm asking for it anyway because I think it's important."

Cole went on to argue that the Democrats' new process was meaningfully different. "During [the Clinton inquiry,] whether it was the chair or the ranking member, if one of those disagreed with issuing a subpoena, then the entire committee voted on whether or not to move forward. That is not the rule you have created here.

"Once again, in what seems to be very petty partisanship, because it makes no functional difference because of how the committee operates," Cole continued, "you say that if the ranking member [minority judiciary committee leader Rep. Doug Collins (R-GA)] asks for a subpoena and it's denied, the full committee will vote; but if the chairman [judiciary committee majority leader Rep. Jerry Nadler (R-NY)] asks for a subpoena, and the ranking member [Rep. Doug Collins (R-GA)] doesn't like it, that's just too bad, the full committee won't vote to validate the ranking member's position."

Cole also said that it was "unprecedented" that Democrats were denying Republicans the right to grant their time to other members, and for Democrats to draw up the impeachment procedures resolution with no GOP input.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-04 8:17 PM
This was all acceptable when republicans changed the rules to investigate Benghazi. And if it's acceptable for the president to defy subpoena's and use military aid to try to force another country to investigate his biggest political rival for republicans this isn't about principles but protecting the corruption. Remember when your party was the rule of law party? You kissed that goodbye for Trump.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 12:14 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
This was all acceptable when republicans changed the rules to investigate Benghazi. And if it's acceptable for the president to defy subpoena's and use military aid to try to force another country to investigate his biggest political rival for republicans this isn't about principles but protecting the corruption. Remember when your party was the rule of law party? You kissed that goodbye for Trump.


You might want to read Willie Brown’s editorial from this past weekend
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 12:31 AM
Is this the one about making everything public? The House is releasing the transcripts now though and if I understand correctly witnesses will be called back to give public testimony. You know when republicans were impeaching Clinton, he still cooperated and also kept the government running.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 1:02 AM
Found the one I think you meant g. From Nov 2nd about Dems thinking impeachment is a winner, don't bet on it. Given what I've read and understand about Trump's Ukraine activities it doesn't matter if it's not politically a winner for my party. He clearly crossed the line imho in a clear provable way.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 6:46 AM


It's a Soviet-style investigation, M E M. Where from before Trump was even inaugurated, the Democrats (and their loyal Bolshevik collaborators in the liberal media) were publicly stating and openly salivating about finding a way to impeach Trump.

Sean Hannity frequently shows a montage (I think sourced from the Media Research Center) where every single month since Trump's Nov 2016 election the liberal media has leaped on this or that as the latest silver bullet that would lead to Trump's impeachment.

It is a case of manufacturing the crime to destroy the man, not an investigation of the true facts.





Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 6:51 AM






Or manufactured to fit a particular Democrat agenda. Donald Trump is quantifiably the most accomplished president of the last 50 years, even more accomplished than Ronald Reagan.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...ingly_long_list

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/herit...ter-than-reagan


And that is why, from a Democrat/Bolshevik point of view, he must be destroyed.




Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 7:53 AM
Lol, Russia helped him get the presidency and thanks him for Syria. And Trump using foreign aid to get another country to investigate his biggest political rival wasn't invented. He did it. If I thought there was a chance you would be okay with a democrat trying to do that I would cut you some slack but I know you wouldn't. We impeached for a lot less. Trump will deserve this one.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 7:59 AM




ADAM SCHIFF'S OWN UKRAINE CONNECTION COMES UNDER SCRUTINY

1) Rep. Schiff was indifferent to Russia's invasion of Ukraine or providing for Ukraine's defense... until a Ukrainian immigrant begame a large campaign contributor, and then Schiff (in exchange for large donations) suddenly became a strong advocate of Ukranian military aid. Which, by the oddest coincidence, his campaign donor made a fortune providing.

That's in addition to:

2) the Russian radio-show hosts who pranked Schiff, pretending to be Russian agents who could give him compromising "naked Trump" photos of Trump. While Schiff led the charge alleging Trump's Russia collusion, Schiff was attempting with every fibre of his being to collude with these Russian guys.

Russian comedians prank phone call US representative Adam Schiff


For weeks after their prank phone call (that they played on-air) Schiff and his staff called them back over and over trying to get compromising info on Trump from who Schiff knew to be Russian nationals.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 8:14 AM


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Lol, Russia helped him get the presidency and thanks him for Syria. And Trump using foreign aid to get another country to investigate his biggest political rival wasn't invented. He did it. If I thought there was a chance you would be okay with a democrat trying to do that I would cut you some slack but I know you wouldn't. We impeached for a lot less. Trump will deserve this one.



You're either brainwashed or lying.
FOUR investigations (an FBI counter-intelligence investigation, a House investigation, a Senate investigation, and the Mueller special investigation) ALL proved that is a lie.

Again: There is FAR more proof of wrongdoing by the Hillary Clinton campaign, Fusion GPS, and FBI, DOJ, and other high officials like Brennan, Comey, McCabe, Clapper, Ohr, Strzok and Page.
And by Schiff himself, as I just detailed above. But apparently, crimes only warrant investigation and prosecution if they are alleged against Republicans. And in the case of Republicans, guilty until proven innocent.

Mueller's report said that there was absolutely no proof of "Russia collusion" by Trump, and only implied that there was possible obstruction of justice. But if there was no collusion, how could there be obstruction of something that the report proved never happened ?
What you allege against Trump is a lie, a desperate attempt to keep the baseless conspiracy going. While you ignore jaw-droppingly obvious corruption and treason in your own party.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 2:16 PM
“The president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed,” Mueller told the House judiciary committee, adding that Trump could theoretically be indicted after he leaves office.

“We did not address ‘collusion,’ which is not a legal term,” Mueller added. “Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not.”

You like Trump are pushing a false narrative of Mueller 's investigation WB. And Trump is at this very moment having his Justice Department investigate that investigation. This is the same JD that found nothing of value when the IG went to them with the whistleblower complaint and tried to keep it hidden.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 3:04 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy




ADAM SCHIFF'S OWN UKRAINE CONNECTION COMES UNDER SCRUTINY

1) Rep. Schiff was indifferent to Russia's invasion of Ukraine or providing for Ukraine's defense... until a Ukrainian immigrant begame a large campaign contributor, and then Schiff (in exchange for large donations) suddenly became a strong advocate of Ukranian military aid. Which, by the oddest coincidence, his campaign donor made a fortune providing.

That's in addition to:

2) the Russian radio-show hosts who pranked Schiff, pretending to be Russian agents who could give him compromising "naked Trump" photos of Trump. While Schiff led the charge alleging Trump's Russia collusion, Schiff was attempting with every fibre of his being to collude with these Russian guys.

Russian comedians prank phone call US representative Adam Schiff


For weeks after their prank phone call (that they played on-air) Schiff and his staff called them back over and over trying to get compromising info on Trump from who Schiff knew to be Russian nationals.





Schiff unlike team Trump contacted the FBI about the call. You understand that is an important detail to leave out?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 5:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
“The president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed,” Mueller told the House judiciary committee, adding that Trump could theoretically be indicted after he leaves office.


Our legal process either finds someone "guilty" or "not guilty".
That is a verdict of insufficient evidence, and therefore "not guilty".
You would like to twist the legal system and have Trump proven not innocent, and guilty until proven innocent.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
“We did not address ‘collusion,’ which is not a legal term,” Mueller added. “Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not.”


Again, that is a "not guilty" verdict.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
You like Trump are pushing a false narrative of Mueller 's investigation WB. And Trump is at this very moment having his Justice Department investigate that investigation. This is the same JD that found nothing of value when the IG went to them with the whistleblower complaint and tried to keep it hidden.


No, I'm absolutely not pushing a false narrative. Theree previous federal investigations, and then a $30 million-dollar Mueller special investigation loaded with 17 partisan Democrats who hated Trump's guts and did everything they could to destroy him, ultimately came to the conclusion that Trump was not guilty.

Period. The end. Despite some weaselly language in the Mueller report that left the door open for House Democrats to open still more pointless investigations. But if it couldn't be found with the unlimited legal resources of a Mueller special investigation, there is no evidence to be found. This is all partisan Democrat theatre, to try and smear Trump in the court of public opinion, in the absence of real evidence.

Deception, slander, intimdation, threats and mob violence. The Democrat way. Whatever serves your Bolshevik revolution.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 6:15 PM



 Originally Posted By: M E M
Schiff unlike team Trump contacted the FBI about the call. You understand that is an important detail to leave out?



Oh, you are such a liar!

* Schiff's staff met with the "whistleblower"/CIA mole, they helped the mole craft his whistleblower report for 18 days (they are supposed to be submitted within 5 days).
* A whistleblower report is supposed to be shared with both Democrat and Republican members of the intelligence committee. It was instead conceived and crafted for maximum damage to Trump in secrecy, and not reviewed jointly with Republicans. The intel Republicans found out with the rest of America when it was leaked to the media, for maximum damage to Trump.
* Adam Schiff stood at a podium, and alleged he had not spoken with or met with the "whistleblower" in advance of the report. In truth, his office SELECTED HIS LAWYER! And Schiff's office helped to draft the whistleblower report for 18 days, before releasing it!
* Two staffers from Obama and then Trump's national security council (Abigail Grace, Sean Misco), Democrat deep state anti-Trump loyalists, left the White House NSC staff a few months ago, and then took positions with Adam Schiff's staff. Just in time to help craft this whistleblower report. Just by the wildest coincidence.

If Rep. Adam Schiff is supoenaed and forced to testify under oath about what he knew and when he knew it, it will be Schiff who will be facing federal charges for perjury, obstruction of justice, and malicious prosecution, among other charges, not Trump. By the day, the credibility of this "whistleblower" report and related Ukranian scandal are falling apart and helping Trump as the true facts reveal themselves.

All Democrats have on their side is secret testimony, selective leaks, and other deceptions. Smoke and mirrors. When the true facts come out, it's game over for the Democrats.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 6:39 PM

REP MAAT GAETZ (R-FL) DIGS UP AUDIO OF ADAM SCHIFF TELLING PRANK CALLERS HE WOULD ACCEPT DIRT FROM UKRAINE (Fox News)


I posted the 8-minure audio from Youtube several posts above. Did Adam Schiff sound skeptical or reluctant? No, he sounded eager. Also telling is that Schiff's office called back the pranksters for weeks, clearly thinking the "naked Trump photos" offer was real, and that they were dying to get their hands on it.

As opposed to Donald Trump Jr., who got a call crom Natalya Veselnitskaya offering Hillary Clinton e-mails, and agreed to a meeting at trump tower with her (while she met with Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS BEFORE AND AFTER the meeting, a clear set-up). Trump Jr. listened to her for less than 30 minutes and then ended the meeting WITHOUT completing the transaction or paking any further attempt to contact her. It was a baited trap, and Trump Jr. didn't bite.
Nor did George Pappadapoulos.
Nor did Michael Caputo.
Nor did Roger Stone.
Nor did Michael Flynn, but he was shaken down into taking a plea with a perjury trap anyway.

And all these men are being bankrupted and put through hell, just for supporting Donald Trump.

While meanwhile, Hillary Clinton and her campaign officials, DNC officials, all of whom dealt directly with the Russians and paid millions for information from Russian and Ukranian agents and officials, Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS, Jeannie Ohr, Bruce Ohr, Comey, McCabe, strzok, Page, John Brennan, James Clapper and all the rest THESE conspirators no one on the Democrat side even wants to investigate.

It's so obvious, all this Ukraine stuff and whistleblower crap is just a smokescreen to draw public attention and credibility away from William Barr and John Durham's imminent reports. To suck the oxygen and media attention way from it, and possibly even to smear Barr and Durham.
But the Democrat lies are falling apart, and Barr and Durham's reports are still coming. As is FBI inspector general Horowitz's report.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-05 8:22 PM



The Beltway's 'Whistleblower' Furor Obsesses Over One Name (RealClearPolitics)

 Quote:
By Paul Sperry, RealClearInvestigations
October 30, 2019



For a town that leaks like a sieve, Washington has done an astonishingly effective job keeping from the American public the name of the anonymous “whistleblower" who triggered impeachment proceedings against President Trump — even though his identity is an open secret inside the Beltway.

More than two months after the official filed his complaint, pretty much all that’s known publicly about him is that he is a CIA analyst who at one point was detailed to the White House and is now back working at the CIA.

But the name of a government official fitting that description — Eric Ciaramella — has been raised privately in impeachment depositions, according to officials with direct knowledge of the proceedings, as well as in at least one open hearing held by a House committee not involved in the impeachment inquiry. Fearing their anonymous witness could be exposed, Democrats this week blocked Republicans from asking more questions about him and intend to redact his name from all deposition transcripts.

RealClearInvestigations is disclosing the name because of the public’s interest in learning details of an effort to remove a sitting president from office.
Further, the official's status as a “whistleblower” is complicated by his being a hearsay reporter of accusations against the president, one who has “some indicia of an arguable political bias … in favor of a rival political candidate" -- as the Intelligence Community Inspector General phrased it circumspectly in originally fielding his complaint.

Federal documents reveal that the 33-year-old Ciaramella, a registered Democrat held over from the Obama White House, previously worked with former Vice President Joe Biden and former CIA Director John Brennan, a vocal critic of Trump who helped initiate the Russia “collusion” investigation of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election.

Further, Ciaramella (pronounced char-a-MEL-ah) left his National Security Council posting in the White House’s West Wing in mid-2017 amid concerns about negative leaks to the media. He has since returned to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

“He was accused of working against Trump and leaking against Trump,” said a former NSC official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

Also, Ciaramella huddled for “guidance” with the staff of House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, including former colleagues also held over from the Obama era whom Schiff’s office had recently recruited from the NSC. Schiff is the lead prosecutor in the impeachment inquiry.

And Ciaramella worked with a Democratic National Committee operative who dug up dirt on the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, inviting her into the White House for meetings, former White House colleagues said. The operative, Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American who supported Hillary Clinton, led an effort to link the Republican campaign to the Russian government. “He knows her. He had her in the White House,” said one former co-worker, who requested anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter.

Documents confirm the DNC opposition researcher [Charlupa] attended at least one White House meeting with Ciaramella in November 2015. She visited the White House with a number of Ukrainian officials lobbying the Obama administration for aid for Ukraine.



With Ciaramella’s name long under wraps, interest in the intelligence analyst is so high that a handful of former colleagues have compiled a roughly 40-page research dossier on him. A classified version of the document is circulating on Capitol Hill, and briefings have been conducted based on it. One briefed Republican has been planning to unmask the whistleblower in a speech on the House floor.

On the Internet, meanwhile, Ciaramella's name for weeks has been bandied about on Twitter feeds and intelligence blogs as the suspected person who blew the whistle on the president. The mainstream media are also aware of his name.

“Everyone knows who he is. CNN knows. The Washington Post knows. The New York Times knows. Congress knows. The White House knows. Even the president knows who he is,” said Fred Fleitz, a former CIA analyst and national security adviser to Trump, who has fielded dozens of calls from the media.

Yet a rare hush has swept across the Potomac. The usually gossipy nation’s capital remains uncharacteristically — and curiously — mum, especially considering the magnitude of this story, only the fourth presidential impeachment inquiry in U.S. history.

Trump supporters blame the conspiracy of silence on a “corrupt” and "biased” media trying to protect the whistleblower from justified scrutiny of his political motives. They also complain Democrats have falsely claimed that exposing his identity would violate whistleblower protections, even though the relevant statute provides limited, not blanket, anonymity – and doesn’t cover press disclosures. His Democrat attorneys, meanwhile, have warned that outing him would put him and his family “at risk of harm," although government security personnel have been assigned to protect him.

“They’re hiding him,” Fleitz asserted. “They’re hiding him because of his political bias."



A CIA officer specializing in Russia and Ukraine, Ciaramella was detailed over to the National Security Council from the agency in the summer of 2015, working under Susan Rice, President Obama’s national security adviser. He also worked closely with the former vice president.

Federal records show that Biden’s office invited Ciaramella to an October 2016 state luncheon the vice president hosted for Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi. Other invited guests included Brennan, as well as then-FBI Director James Comey and then-National Intelligence Director James Clapper.

Several U.S. officials told RealClearInvestigations that the invitation that was extended to Ciaramella, a relatively low-level GS-13 federal employee, was unusual and signaled he was politically connected inside the Obama White House.

Former White House officials said Ciaramella worked on Ukrainian policy issues for Biden in 2015 and 2016, when [Biden] the vice president was President Obama's "point man" for Ukraine. A Yale graduate, Ciaramella is said to speak Russian and Ukrainian, as well as Arabic. He had been assigned to the NSC by Brennan.

He was held over into the Trump administration, and headed the Ukraine desk at the NSC, eventually transitioning into the West Wing, until June 2017.

“He was moved over to the front office” to temporarily fill a vacancy, said a former White House official, where he “saw everything, read everything.”

The official added that it soon became clear among NSC staff that Ciaramella opposed the new Republican president’s foreign policies. “My recollection of Eric is that he was very smart and very passionate, particularly about Ukraine and Russia. That was his thing – Ukraine,” he said. “He didn’t exactly hide his passion with respect to what he thought was the right thing to do with Ukraine and Russia, and his views were at odds with the president’s policies.”

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the whistleblower,” the official said.

In May 2017, Ciaramella went “outside his chain of command,” according to a former NSC co-worker, to send an email alerting another agency that Trump happened to hold a meeting with Russian diplomats in the Oval Office the day after firing Comey, who led the Trump-Russia investigation. The email also noted that Russian President Vladimir Putin had phoned the president a week earlier.

Contents of the email appear to have ended up in the media, which reported Trump boasted to the Russian officials about firing Comey, whom he allegedly called “crazy, a real nut job.”

In effect, Ciaramella helped generate the “Putin fired Comey” narrative, according to the research dossier making the rounds in Congress, a copy of which was obtained by RealClearInvestigations.

Ciaramella allegedly argued that “President Putin suggested that President Trump fire Comey,” the report said. “In the days after Comey’s firing, this presidential action was used to further political and media calls for the standup [sic] of the special counsel to investigate ‘Russia collusion.’ “

In the end, Special Counsel Robert Mueller found no conspiracy between Trump and Putin. Ciaramella’s email was cited in a footnote in his report, which mentions only Ciaramella’s name, the date and the recipients “Kelly et al.” Former colleagues said the main recipient was then-Homeland Security Director John Kelly.

Ciaramella left the Trump White House soon after Mueller was appointed. Attempts to reach Ciaramella were unsuccessful, although his father said in a phone interview from Hartford, where he is a bank executive, that he doubted his son was the whistleblower. “He didn’t have that kind of access to that kind of information,” Tony Ciaramella said. “He’s just a guy going to work every day.”

The whistleblower's lawyers did not answer emails and phone calls seeking comment. CIA spokesman Luis Rossello declined comment, saying, “Anything on the whistleblower, we are referring to ODNI.” The Office of the Director of National Intelligence did not respond to requests for comment.

In his complaint, the whistleblower charged that the president used “the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election.”
Specifically, he cited a controversial July 25 phone call from the White House residence in which Trump asked Ukraine’s new president to help investigate the origins of the Russia “collusion” investigation the Obama administration initiated against his campaign, citing reports that “a lot of it started with Ukraine," where the former pro-Hillary Clinton regime in Kiev worked with Obama diplomats and Chalupa to try to “sabotage” Trump’s run for president.


Later in the conversation, Trump also requested information about [Joseph Biden] and his son [Hunter Biden], since “Biden went around bragging that he” had fired the chief Ukrainian prosecutor at the time a Ukrainian oligarch, who gave Biden’s son a lucrative seat on the board of his energy conglomerate [Burisma], was under investigation for corruption.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Intelligence Committee Chairman Schiff argued the whistleblower's complaint, though admittedly based on second-hand information, amounts to an impeachable offense, and they subsequently launched an impeachment inquiry that has largely been conducted in secret.

The whistleblower filed his “urgent” report against Trump with the intelligence community inspector general on Aug. 12, but it was not publicly released until Sept. 26.

Prior to filing, he had met with Schiff’s Democratic staff for “guidance." At first, the California lawmaker denied the contacts, but later admitted that his office did, in fact, meet with the whistleblower early on.

Earlier this year, Schiff recruited two of Ciaramella’s closest allies at the NSC — both whom were also Obama holdovers -- to join his committee staff. He hired one, Sean Misko, in August — the same month the whistleblower complaint was filed.

During closed-door depositions taken in the impeachment inquiry, Misko has been observed handing notes to the lead counsel for the impeachment inquiry, Daniel Goldman, as he asks questions of Trump administration witnesses, officials with direct knowledge of the proceedings told RealClearInvestigations.

Republicans participating in the restricted inquiry hearings have been asking witnesses about Ciaramella and repeatedly injecting his name into the deposition record, angering Schiff and Democrats, who sources say are planning to scrub the references to Ciaramella from any transcripts of the hearings they may agree to release.

“Their reaction tells you something,” said one official familiar with the inquiry.

For example, sources said Ciaramella’s name was invoked by GOP committee members during the closed-door testimony of former NSC official Fiona Hill on Oct. 14. Ciaramella worked with Hill, another Obama holdover, in the West Wing.

During Tuesday’s deposition of NSC official Alexander Vindman, Democrats shut down a line of inquiry by Republicans because they said it risked revealing the identity of the whistleblower. Republicans wanted to know with whom Vindman spoke within the administration about his concerns regarding Trump’s call to Ukraine. But Schiff instructed the witness not to answer the questions, which reportedly sparked a shouting match between Democrats and Republicans.

Determined to keep the whistleblower's identity secret, Schiff recently announced it may not be necessary for him to testify even in closed session. Republicans argue that by hiding his identity, the public cannot assess his motives for striking out against the president. And they worry his political bias could color inquiry testimony and findings unless it’s exposed.

Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the House Oversight Committee, asserted the American people have the right to know the person who is trying to bring down the president for whom 63 million voted.

“It’s tough to determine someone’s credibility if you can’t put them under oath and ask them questions,” he said.

Added Jordan: “The people want to know. I want to get to the truth."


In an open House Natural Resources Committee hearing last week, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) seemingly out of left field asked a witness about “Eric Ciaramella of the Obama National Security Council,” in what the Washington press corps took as a bid to out the whistleblower.
[Rep. Gohmert] later told a Dallas radio station he knew the whistleblower’s name. “A lot of us in Washington know who it is,” Gohmert said, adding he’s a “very staunch Democrat” who was “supposed to be a point person on Ukraine, during the time when Ukraine was its most corrupt, and he didn’t blow any whistles on their corruption."

The Washington Post ran a news story over the weekend critical of Republicans for allegedly trying to “unmask” the whistleblower, for attempting to do the job journalists would normally do. Last week, the paper ran an op-ed by the whistleblower’s attorneys claiming he was no longer relevant to the inquiry and beseeching the public to let their client slip back into obscurity.

For its part, the New York Times ran a story last month reporting details about the whistleblower’s background, but stopped short of fully identifying him, suggesting it didn’t know his politics or even his name. “Little else is known about him,” the paper claimed.

On Thursday, Democrats plan a House vote on new impeachment-inquiry rules that would give Republicans for the first time the ability to call their own witnesses. Only, their requests must first be approved by the Democrats. So there is a good chance the whistleblower, perhaps the most important witness of all, will remain protected from critical examination.






There's way too much information and revealed political ties to shorten this article.

Everything I bolded points more to an infiltrator, a double-agent, a saboteur, a rat, and not at all to what could be described as a "whistleblower".

This Ciaramella guy is tied to every branch of intelligence that tried to destroy Trump in 2016, every FBI and intelligence branch that framed Trump for the Russia/Ukraine accusations and the Meuller special investigation, every dirty tie to Biden and the Ukranian/Soros corruption, and all the CIA/White House NSC council infiltration that was used to compose the deceitful "whistleblower report". Composed in Adam Schiff's office, no less!

It's absolutely absurd that someone with that much bias can smear the president with an altered whistleblower set of rules (that no one can say who or when the "whistleblower report" form was recently altered to allow fourth-hand accusations, and used to attack a president when it was only ever previously used inter-departmentally within federal intelligence agencies, never intended to strike at the Executive branch, let alone the President), and yet the accused President Trump, and House Republicans and the American people ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO KNOW HIS NAME!

This is a coup by deep state Washington elites, pure and simple. No one but a partisan Democrat could not see the incredible legal manipulations, the FBI/DOJ/CIA deep state fingerprints all over it. All the same players in all three Trump scandals, plus the same players who threw the case against Hillary.

If this plot succeeds, we're well on our way to becoming Venezuela, Cuba, or the Soviet Union.
A Bolshevik revolution, on full display.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-06 5:14 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy



 Originally Posted By: M E M
Schiff unlike team Trump contacted the FBI about the call. You understand that is an important detail to leave out?



Oh, you are such a liar!

* Schiff's staff met with the "whistleblower"/CIA mole, they helped the mole craft his whistleblower report for 18 days (they are supposed to be submitted within 5 days).
* A whistleblower report is supposed to be shared with both Democrat and Republican members of the intelligence committee. It was instead conceived and crafted for maximum damage to Trump in secrecy, and not reviewed jointly with Republicans. The intel Republicans found out with the rest of America when it was leaked to the media, for maximum damage to Trump.
* Adam Schiff stood at a podium, and alleged he had not spoken with or met with the "whistleblower" in advance of the report. In truth, his office SELECTED HIS LAWYER! And Schiff's office helped to draft the whistleblower report for 18 days, before releasing it!
* Two staffers from Obama and then Trump's national security council (Abigail Grace, Sean Misco), Democrat deep state anti-Trump loyalists, left the White House NSC staff a few months ago, and then took positions with Adam Schiff's staff. Just in time to help craft this whistleblower report. Just by the wildest coincidence.

If Rep. Adam Schiff is supoenaed and forced to testify under oath about what he knew and when he knew it, it will be Schiff who will be facing federal charges for perjury, obstruction of justice, and malicious prosecution, among other charges, not Trump. By the day, the credibility of this "whistleblower" report and related Ukranian scandal are falling apart and helping Trump as the true facts reveal themselves.

All Democrats have on their side is secret testimony, selective leaks, and other deceptions. Smoke and mirrors. When the true facts come out, it's game over for the Democrats.



No I'm not the liar here....
"Obviously we would welcome the chance to get copies of those recordings," Schiff tells them. "So we will try to work with the FBI to try to figure out how we can take copies of those... I'll be in touch with the FBI about this, and we'll make arrangements with your staff. I think it would be best to provide these materials to both our committee and the FBI. We'll make arrangements between my staff and yours on how to facilitate that."

Schiff even during the call is talking about contacting theFBI. And really given that you are fine with Trump's corrupt use of his office by withholding foreign aid to get another country to investigate his biggest political rival you shouldn't have a problem even if Schiff hadn't notified the FBI.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-06 5:26 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
“The president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed,” Mueller told the House judiciary committee, adding that Trump could theoretically be indicted after he leaves office.


Our legal process either finds someone "guilty" or "not guilty".
That is a verdict of insufficient evidence, and therefore "not guilty".
You would like to twist the legal system and have Trump proven not innocent, and guilty until proven innocent.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
“We did not address ‘collusion,’ which is not a legal term,” Mueller added. “Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not.”


Again, that is a "not guilty" verdict.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
You like Trump are pushing a false narrative of Mueller 's investigation WB. And Trump is at this very moment having his Justice Department investigate that investigation. This is the same JD that found nothing of value when the IG went to them with the whistleblower complaint and tried to keep it hidden.


No, I'm absolutely not pushing a false narrative. Theree previous federal investigations, and then a $30 million-dollar Mueller special investigation loaded with 17 partisan Democrats who hated Trump's guts and did everything they could to destroy him, ultimately came to the conclusion that Trump was not guilty.

Period. The end. Despite some weaselly language in the Mueller report that left the door open for House Democrats to open still more pointless investigations. But if it couldn't be found with the unlimited legal resources of a Mueller special investigation, there is no evidence to be found. This is all partisan Democrat theatre, to try and smear Trump in the court of public opinion, in the absence of real evidence.

Deception, slander, intimdation, threats and mob violence. The Democrat way. Whatever serves your Bolshevik revolution.




Yeah you're just doubling down on your false narrative here. Mueller quite clearly said they didn't consider collusion so it's just not true to say the report cleared him of that. And Mueller was very clear that Trump could be inficted after he leaves office. Weasel words=whatever doesn't suit your false narrative.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-06 5:38 AM


 Originally Posted By: M E M
Mueller quite clearly said they didn't consider collusion so it's just not true to say the report cleared him of that. And Mueller was very clear that Trump could be inficted after he leaves office. Weasel words=whatever doesn't suit your false narrative.


No. Only on Planet CNN/MSNBC/MediaMatters is that narrative not laughably off the mark.

Here on planet Earth, There were FOUR federal investigations that were ended due to insufficient evidence. (i.e., NOT GUILTY).

The remaining ambiguity was thrown in to damage Trump by the 17 partisan DEMOCRAT CAMPAIGN DONORS on the Mueller team. To give Nadler, Schiff, and Maxine Waters the slightest rationalization to form more purely political investigations, despite no evidence to support further investigation of Trump.

At this point, it's all about Dems manufacturing the slightest appearance of wrongdoing, to smear Trump and shave a few percentage points off his popularity before Nov 2020.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-06 6:27 AM
hmmnn, your planet just has the faithful Trump supporters. The people testifying are not manufactured, you just don't like what they are saying under oath. (something Trump people are refusing to do)
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-06 8:10 PM

Breaking down whistleblower complaint, impeachment procedure

- Steve Hilton, former cabinet advisor of U.K. prime minister David Cameron




Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-07 3:35 PM
I can see why Trump likes his show. Apparently in Hilton's world there isn't testimony from several others that backs up the whistleblower. And while there are Dems that wanted to impeach right away that is hardly true that all of them were. And no issues with a republicans that are doing everything they can to try to derail the inquiry. Rules and subpoena's are apparently only for to observe and obey. Hilton gives everything a pass by republicans here. I won't bother watching him again. I don't have time for talking heads from either side putting out sermon style propaganda that paints an entire side as evil. Enjoy your false narratives if you want. In the real world public hearings start soon and Lindsey Graham won't read the transcripts.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-07 8:31 PM



The testimony released over the last few days damages the Democrat case for impeachment.

It reveals that testimony of Bill Taylor (the current U.S. ambassador to Ukraine), where he was previously fronted to have testified that Trump definitely had a quid pro quo in his phone conversation with Ukraine president Zelenskyy (thanks to Democrats leaking a few sentences out of several hours of tesimony, the only portion that propagandized the quid pro quo myth!), is not credible testimony after all.

That ambassador Taylor's testimony, when released in its full context, reveals Taylor's statement to be hearsay speculation, just Bill Taylor's opinion, not based on any fact. So as opinion, not fact, as Gregg Jarret said last night on Fox, it is a factless opinion that any judge in a trial would tell the jury to disregard.
But of course, the Democrats treat it as gospel. Just because it fits their lying narrative.


A review of the actual facts:

1) The released transcript of the Trump/Zelenskyy July 25th phone call makes clear there was no intimidation or coercion by Trump on Zelenskyy.

2) Multiple televised public media interviews of Zelenskyy since then prove there was no intimidation or coecion (or quid pro quo) by Trump.

3) Statements by all witnesses make clear that while $400 million in military aid to Ukraine was temporarily delayed, that withholding of aid was not used to pressure or intimidate the Ukranians, only to verify it was not being used for corrupt purposes (and Ukraine has been notoriously corrupt for decades). Not quid pro quo, because the Ukranians were completely unaware that the aid was delayed and witheld. For it to be a threat or intimidation or trading favors, Ukraine would have had to be aware the funds were even witheld.

4) Most infuriating of all, while Democrats strain to make a false case against Trump, they ignore far more blatant intimidation by:

(A) Joseph Biden, where he openly boasted in front of cameras that he threatened the previous Ukranian president that they would not get over $1 billion in U.S. aid unless the Ukraine president fired the prosecutor investigating Hunter Biden/Burisma. And multiple other Ukraine officials confirm that the prosecutor was fired, and precisely because of Joseph Biden's threat.

(B) A threatening letter from Senators Leahy, Durbin and Menendez to the Ukranian government in 2016, again threatening the Ukranians that if they didn't provide the Senators with information that compromised Trump (and the 2016 election) that they would likewise use their power to hurt the Ukranian government.

(C) The Ukranian part in the 2016 DNC/Hillary Clinton campaign/ Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS/Christopher Steele/"Russia Dossier", again where the Democrats are blatantly guilty of employing and buying information directly from Russian and Ukranian (and British, and Australian, and Italian/Maltan) foreign agents.


So... once again, what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing, is exactly what Democrats are blatantly guilty of themselves. Which Democrats of course, in the case of their own guilt, don't want investigated.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-07 11:21 PM


Steve Bannon predicts Trump impeachment -Sunday Morning Futures, Maria Bartiromo, Nov 3, 2019



Steve Bannon gives an insightful overview of the impeachment process, the deceitful tactics Pelosi and Schiff have used, and the fact that Democrats are hell-bent and committed in advance to impeachment, no matter what the evidence. The most indelible phrase Bannon used to describe the Democrats: "They've burned the boats, they're advancing inland, there's no turning back."

And his description of how Matt Gaetz broke the Democrat unfair process of abusing secret hearings and leaking very select portions from the SCIF room for a month, as the reason Democrat impeachment was polling so high, because Democrats abused the process for a month, before Gaetz and other Republicans broke the one-sided assault. Thanks to Gaetz, that twisting of the truth is over, and the polls are already starting to turn in Trump's favor.

And that Pelosi and Schiff are planning a show trial that will completely stall any legislation through November and December, depriving Trump of another legislative victory. But I can easily see that blowing up in the Dems' faces, if the impeachment process drags into Jan-Feb-March 2020, and into the primaries and Super Tuesday. That will suck even more oxygen from an already lackluster Democrat field. Hilarious that Bannon cited that none of the Democrat frontrunners want to even mention impeachment, because they know it's a vote-killer for any of them.

House Democrats are using every deception they can manufacture, and every time, they delude themselves it is giving them traction, before they realize they've shot themselves in the foot one more time:

* The initially hyped damning Bill Taylor testimony, exposed now as just insignifican nonfactual hearsay opinion.

* The whistleblower who, far from neutral, is an Obama administration favored boy, a vocal partisan connected with a clear partisan zeal to Joe Biden, Susan Rice, James Brennan, and an unholy host of Trump haters.

* The so-called whistleblower/leaker/rat Eric Ciaramella's lawyer Mark Zaid, another rabid Democrat partisan with heavy ties to Brennan's CIA, whose Twitter posts openly boast about "#rebellion, #impeachment", and in Jan 2017: "the coup has started"

* CNN fantasizes about impeaching both Trump and Pence (based on nothing in Pence's case, almost nothing in Trump's) so they can crown a "President Pelosi". Never mind that if Pence were to be impeached or resign, Trump would appoint another Republican.
Whistleblower-lawyer Mark Zaid also Twitter-posted "#CNN" who he saw as an ally in selling the Democrat/Deep State/CIA coup to the public, so there's that on full display, CNN's willing glee to sell it.

* Former acting CIA director John McLaughlin at a recorded meeting on C-SPAN saying "Thank God for the Deep State!"
Oh, gee, up till now you guys have been saying the Deep State is just a conspiracy theory. Thank you Mr. McLaughlin, for not only admitting there's a Deep State, but admitting you and your CIA/FBI/DOJ/State Dept intelligence field are all eager participants in it, that crazy thing that doesn't exist.

* General McRaven also saying: "The sooner Trump is removed the better."
So we all know now which team he's playing for.

* Lt Col. Vindman whose testimony was considered rock solid by the liberal media and House Dems, now Vindman turns out to have on many occasions habitually badmouthed America, on several occasions in front of a Russian delegation no less, overheard by a superior officer and reprimanded for it. Hey, he's just a citizen of the world, with no apparent first loyalty to the United States, and certainly not to the American voters. Comments remarkably similar to "I'm at Walmart now, you can almost smell the Trump voters."


RETIRED ARMY OFFICER REMEMBERS LT. COL.VINDMAN AS A PARTISAN DEMOCRAT WHO RIDICULED AMERICA

 Quote:
by Debra Heine, November 4, 2019



A retired Army officer who worked with Democrat “star witness” Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman in Grafenwoher, Germany, claims Vindman “really talked up” President Barack Obama and ridiculed America and Americans in front of Russian military officers.

In an eye-opening thread on Twitter last week, retired U.S. Army Lt. Colonel Jim Hickman said that he “verbally reprimanded” Vindman after he heard some of his derisive remarks for himself. “Do not let the uniform fool you,” Hickman wrote. “He is a political activist in uniform.”

Hickman’s former boss at the Joint Multinational Simulation Center in Grafenwoehr has since gone on the record to corroborate his story.

Hickman, 52, says he’s a disabled wounded warrior who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and who received numerous medals, including the Purple Heart.

The retired officer said that Vindman, a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Ukraine, made fun of the United States to the point that it made other soldiers “uncomfortable.” For example, Hickman told American Greatness, that he heard Vindman call Americans “rednecks”—a word that needed to be translated for the Russians. He said they all had a big laugh at America’s expense.


Vindman, who serves on the National Security Council (NSC), appeared last week before the House Intelligence Committee and testified that he’d had “concerns” about the July phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Vindman’s testimony rested on his negative opinions of the call, rather than any new facts about the call.

Vindman’s former boss, NSC Senior Director for European Affairs Tim Morrison, threw cold water on Vindman’s claims in his own testimony later in the week, saying he didn’t have concerns that “anything illegal was discussed” in the phone call. Morrison also testified that Ukrainian officials were not even aware that military funding had been delayed by the Trump Administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call.



“COMPLETELY BEYOND REPROACH”

Hickman said he decided to come forward because Vindman “disobeyed a direct order from the commander-in-chief, his boss,” made his testimony “about his foreign policy opinions versus facts,” and “wore his Army service uniform to make a political statement” against the president.

“Then right on cue, the mainstream media began calling him a war hero with a purple heart, and completely beyond reproach,” Hickman wrote in a statement to American Greatness and another journalist. “Knowing his political bias, backed by his somewhat radical left-leaning ideology, it was my obligation, indeed my duty, to come forward with this information. I couldn’t go to the same mainstream media to put it out, nor could I go to the Army, as they’re backing Vindman, so I took to Twitter, a source for getting the truth out,” he added.

According to Hickman, Vindman was the Defense Department attaché at the Russian embassy in Germany when he met him in 2013. He told American Greatness that he also met Vindman’s twin brother Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman while he was stationed in Germany.

“I know LTC Alex Vindman from a Combined US-Russian exercise called Atlas Vision [13] in Grafenwoher,” Hickman wrote on Twitter. “He worked with the Russian Embassy and I was assigned to the JMTC (Joint Multinational Training Command), within USAREUR (US Army Europe). He worked coordination w/the Russian 15th Peacekeeping Brigade, and I was in charge of all Simulations planning, as well as assisting the USAREUR Lead Planner as the Senior Military Planner.”

Hickman provided American Greatness with a picture of himself and his wife while he was on vacation in Venice during that time period.

He noted that he and Vindman had “interacted on several different occasions throughout the planning cycle, but it was during the actual execution of the exercise that we had an issue relevant to his recent testimony.”



LAUGHING AT AMERICANS' EXPENSE

Hickman said he had pretty much forgotten about Vindman until recently.

“When I saw him, and understood what he was trying to accomplish, I knew immediately he was involved in this mess as a partisan Democrat,” Hickman said in his statement.

He explained on Twitter that Vindman, who was a Major in 2013, sat in on the US-Russian exercises that were conducted in “Virtual Battle Simulations 2 (VBS2) classrooms simulation.”

According to Hickman, Vindman spoke with “U.S. and Russian Soldiers, as well as the young officers and GS employees about America, Russia, and Obama.”

Hickman’s Oct. 31 tweets continue below in paragraph form for easier reading:

  • "He was apologetic of American culture, laughed about Americans not being educated or worldly, & really talked up Obama & globalism to the point of (sic) uncomfortable.

    He would speak w/the Russian Soldiers & laugh as if at the expense of the US personnel. It was so uncomfortable & unprofessional, one of the GS [civil service]employees came & told me everything above. I walked over & sat w/in earshot of Vindman, & sure enough, all was confirmed.

    One comment truly struck me as odd, & it was w/respect to American’s falsely thinking they’re exceptional, when he said, “He [Obama] is working on that now.” And he said it w/a snide ‘I know a secret’ look on his face. I honestly don’t know what it meant, it just sounded like an odd thing to say.

    Regardless, after hearing him bash America a few times in front of subordinates, Russians, & GS Employees, as well as, hearing an earful about globalization, Obama’s plan, etc., I’d had enough. I tapped him on the shoulder & asked him to step outside. At that point I verbally reprimanded him for his actions, & I’ll leave it at that, so as not to be unprofessional myself.

    The bottom-line is LTC Vindman was a partisan Democrat at least as far back as [2013]. So much so, junior officers & soldiers
    felt uncomfortable around him. This is not your professional, field-grade officer, who has the character & integrity to do the right thing. Do not let the uniform fool you… he is a political activist in uniform. I pray our nation will drop this hate, vitriol & division, & unite as our founding fathers intended!"



Thomas Lasch, Hickman’s boss at the time, corroborated his story on Twitter.

“Jim, I remember exercise ATLAS VISION and this incident. I was your Boss at the time and was satisfied when you told me that you ‘took care of it’ (meaning then MAJ Vindman’s disparaging comments about the U.S. to the Russians ) and I just put things together this past week,” Lasch tweeted.

Lasch is a highly respected simulation strategist at the Joint Multinational Simulation Center in Grafenwoehr, Germany where he is responsible for the “Live Virtual Constructive and Gaming simulation program for all U.S. Forces in Europe.”

Lasch vouched for Hickman in a second tweet: “Everyone on this thread should know that Jim Hickman’s patriotism and honesty is unparalleled. He is one of my personal heroes.” He added: “This is not about Trump! This is about an officer [LTC Vindman] that is disloyal to the United States of America.”

American Greatness was able to reach Lasch through his LinkedIn account. He verified that the recently established Twitter account in his name vouching for Hickman was indeed his.


“Yes this is my LinkedIn account. It is really me. And the Twitter account is mine as well,” Lasch said.

In his statement, Hickman explained why Lasch remembered the incident with Vindman: “I did question his patriotism to our nation, and the lack of respect given to Americans in general. I was indeed furious and that’s most likely why my boss Tom Lasch remembers it so clearly.”

“I corrected him solely as a superior officer witnessing a junior officer doing something wrong,” Hickman explained. “We as officers are not supposed to talk about our political leanings, especially in front of subordinates, and never are we to talk down about Americans and our culture.”

Hickman further explained to American Greatness that Vindman spoke favorably of the United Nations, and appeared contemptuous of Americans who didn’t appreciate the U.N.
Vindman, Hickman said, believed that “the U.N. should have broader powers” and “talked about how the American people weren’t worldly.”

He noted that Vindman actually used the word “globalism” during the conversation and “talked about American culture versus European culture,” unfavorably, essentially suggesting that “the U.S. has no culture.”

Hickman also told American Greatness that Vindman talked about “Obama changing America” and that it reminded him of Obama’s infamous “Fundamentally transforming America” speech of October 2008.

The former officer stressed that he was not seeking recognition or praise but instead, “to just get the facts and truth out that are relevant to the current situation.”

Hickman said in his statement that he began his Army career in military intelligence and was commissioned in 1996 as a field artillery officer.

He retired from the service in 2017 and now resides near Tampa, Florida.




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-08 12:05 AM




Another piece you'll never see in the liberal media, Michael Flynn's lawyer Sydney Powell (a prosecutor who also worked on the Whitewater investigation and the Enron and Arthur Anderson cases):

Flynn attorney demands FBI search internal database, claims FBI manipulated interview notes - Nov 5 2019, Tuesday



Detailing the shakedown techniques used aagainst Michael Flynn, to make him confess and receive a sentence for "process crimes" he wasn't guilty of. Even Peter Strzok, one of the two FBI agents who ambushed Flynn without an attorney (on Comey's orders) in order to manufacture a process crime, didn't think Flynn was deliberately misleading or omitting anything in his answers to the FBI.

But regardless, Flynn was bankrupted, had to sell his home to pay for his defense, and once bankrupted, was further threatened with prosecuting his son unless Flynn too the offered plea deal.

Sydney Powell is working to have that plea/conviction overturned.
And rightly so.

Here's her previous appearance with Mark Levin, where she went into much more detail, one of Levin's best interviews:


Life, Liberty, & Levin - Guest Sidney Powell - Sunday, January 27 2019


Where she also goes into the long history of shakedown convictions by the tag-team of James Comey, Robert Mueller, and Andrew Weissmann, weaving through the Scooter Libby conviction, Enron, Arthur Anderson, and the same shakedown tactics used in the Trump investigation. Just ask George Pappadapoulos, Roger Stone, Carter Page, Sam Clovis, Michael Caputo, and Jerome Corsi, among others. Many of whom are still having their lives destroyed by FBI/DOJ.

Michael Caputo in particular is eloquent when interviewed, on both Fox and OANN. He details how despite being guilty of nothing, he has had to exhaust $200,000 on his legal defense, for charges of which he has never been officially indicted. And even worse, the FBI repeatedly interview all his friends, family, business associates and clients. And because of the intimidation factor, virtually all of his clients have stopped doing business with him, for fear that they too might be indicted if they remain close to him.

An infuriating abuse of power, and exerting of federal intimidation against political opponents.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-08 10:41 PM

Just to review:


the deceitfully titled "whistleblower" (Eric Ciaramella) -a clear Democrat partisan with clear favor in the highest level of the Obama administration, with close interaction with Vice President Joseph Biden, with Obama's national security advisor Susan Rice, who was an agent of Trump-hating then CIA director John Brennan. Who was a vocal critic even within the Trump White House of president Donald Trump. It's very obvious why Democrats don't want Ciaraamella to testify, he clearly is a rabid Democrat operative, with a partisan axe to grind. The moment he takes the stand, his credibility is gone, and his "whistleblower report" is instantly discredited. It already is, those who get their news from the liberal media, where these facts are selectively omitted, just don't know it yet. They naively believe his identity and his politics are still unknown. The conservative media is reporting it, the liberal media is protecting their lying narrative by not reporting the known facts.

Lt. Col. Alex Vindman: again a clear Democrat partisan, who as I cited above, wears his liberal Democrat politics on his sleeve, and can't restrain himself from disparaging Trump, Republicans, or the United States itself.

former fired U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Maria Yovanovich (May 2016-May 2019): Another fire-breathing liberal Democrat whose loyalty is to Obama and Hillary Clinton, and who can't restrain herself from making disparaging remarks to embassy staffers, and to diplomats in the Ukranian government. Her hostility toward the Trump administration was reported by all these people who overheard it, and she was replaced as ambassador for precisely this reason. Her testimony is again partisan and worthless.

Current U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor (May 2019-present) also testified to imply without evidence that Trump was engaging in quid pro quo, and then backpedalled from it in his later testimony revealed yesterday. Another Democrat loyalist, proven to know nothing incriminating about Trump, and his testimony discredited.

Likewise testimony of U.S. ambassador to the E. U. Gordon Sondland. Another partisan who might as well have been wearing a HILLARY 2016 campaign button when he testified.

Both Taylor and Sondland discredited by U.S. envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, and by the transcript of the phone call itself. And by multiple statements in press conferences of Ukranian president Zelenskyy himself.

Democrats have an increasingly difficult time making a case for impeachment, as the "facts" continue to fall out from under them, and are proven false.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-13 7:12 PM



GOING INTO IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS, LIBERAL MEDIA BLASTS TRUMP WITH 96% NEGATIVE COVERAGE
(Newsbusters, Media Research Center)


Gee, who would have seen that coming?
Your "objective" impartial liberal media at work.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-13 9:29 PM



Eric Ciaramella

https://www.conservapedia.com/Eric_Ciaramella


The deceitfully labelled anonymous "whistleblower" who should be the first person deposed in House impeachment hearings today. But because his partisan connections and ideology are so obvious, Rep. Adam Schiff and the other House Democrats want to pretend he doesn't exist now. If he were to testify and expose how deceitful the whole Democrat case for impeachment is, this entire push for impeachment would be fully exposed and end within an hour.

Ciaramella was recruited into the CIA when communist former CIA director James Brennan first saw him as a leftist student protestor at Yale, protesting on behalf of a muslim professor. He quickly became a favored boy, both in the Brennan-led CIA, and then in the Obama administration, and was an Obama holdover in the Trump administration. Later elevated to CIA-mole/"whistleblower". So credible that he can't be made public, at which point the Democrat lying narrative would be destroyed.

It's like having Watergate hearings without John Dean.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-14 3:17 AM
Reading the transcripts it's pretty clear to me they don't need to put up the whistleblower. Other witnesses cover what he alleged in the report. And we have the rough transcript of Trump's conversation with Zelensky. It's damning and all republicans have is accusations and partisan game playing in an attempt to provide cover for his corruption. I look forward to voters weighing in '20
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-16 1:52 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Reading the transcripts it's pretty clear to me they don't need to put up the whistleblower. Other witnesses cover what he alleged in the report. And we have the rough transcript of Trump's conversation with Zelensky. It's damning and all republicans have is accusations and partisan game playing in an attempt to provide cover for his corruption. I look forward to voters weighing in '20



Respectfully, that's wishful thinking on your part.
NO ONE on the Democrat side can cite one crime Trump has committed, let alone evidence to support the allegation. As was cited by Rep. Jim Jordan and Elise Stefanik, the "whistleblower"/CIA rat was touted over and over by Rep. Adam Schiff and other Democrats a month ago as "vital" testimony, and he would "definitely" testify.

So what changed?

What changed is he is a liberal partisan who crafted his lying "whistleblower" narrative for 3 weeks in the office of Rep. Adam Schiff, and neither Ciaramella or or Schiff's office were forthcoming about that deceit. He is COMPLETELY discredited as a witness, and that is EXACTLY why Democrats don't want him to testify now. Because he by testifying can only further destroy the Democrats' lying narrative.
But Adam Schiff alleges now he doesn't know who the "whistleblower" is.
\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:
Please. Ciaramella just camped out in Schiff's office for 18 days, while Schiff's staff helped him draft the "whistleblower" report. And Schiff's office hand selected Ciaramella's attorney for him. And Schiff hired two staffers from the White House's National Security Council, who probably also knew in advance and helped courdinate the leak, and are probably sources in his "whistleblower report". But Schiff has no idea who he is. Please.



"Other witnesses" like Marie Yovanovich, George Kent and Bill Taylor clearly have no firsthand knowledge, just 3rd and 4th hand rumors, and clearly don't know their own ass from a hole in the ground.
Not to mention Schiff's one-sided committee rules that clearly try to hide the truth and silence any Republican pursuit of cross-examining the witnesses and unearthing the true facts. Schiff's treatment today of Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) and even of chairman Rep. Devin Nunes was just jaw dropping in Schiff's attempts to silence them and prevent disclosure of the true facts.


I'm starting to wonder if Democrat House members facing re-election in districts Trump won will even give Pelosi the votes to pass impeachment in the Democrat-controlled House, let alone to ever even make it to the Republican-majority Senate for an actual impeachment trial.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-16 3:05 AM

Rep. Ratcliffe (R-TX), to George Kent and Bill Taylor: "What is the impeachable offense?"




No response.
Two deer in the headlights.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-16 5:26 AM
Holding foreign aid to try to get a country to help his campaign sounds like solid grounds to impeach. Pretty easy to see that he did that.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-16 5:43 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Holding foreign aid to try to get a country to help his campaign sounds like solid grounds to impeach. Pretty easy to see that he did that.



Your lie has previously been addressed.

No one in the Ukranian government was even aware the military aid had been delayed. Trump witheld it because Ukraine has for years been one of the three most corrupt governments on the planet, and was maaking sure the aid would not be used for corrupt purposes, and once satisfied Zelenskyy was not corrupt, the funds were released. For it to be quid pro quo or intimidation or coercion or blackmail of Ukraine, the Ukranian government would have to be aware there was a threat, but the Ukranians were completely unaware there was a delay in U.S. aid.

But your side is doing its damnedest to keep that lying narrative alive.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-16 6:01 AM
I wouldn't lie nor would I even need to. Testimony I think establishes that Ukraine was aware that aid was conditional on investing Biden. On a side note Zelensky was booked to appear on CNN to announce the investigation Trump was trying to get. He canceled when the aid was received. Btw very glad to see Roger Stone got what he deserved today.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-16 4:15 PM
BBC

Link to news that several people overheard Trump talking to Sondland about investigating Biden. That would not be second hand hearsay.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-17 4:39 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I wouldn't lie nor would I even need to. Testimony I think establishes that Ukraine was aware that aid was conditional on investing Biden. On a side note Zelensky was booked to appear on CNN to announce the investigation Trump was trying to get. He canceled when the aid was received. Btw very glad to see Roger Stone got what he deserved today.



Roger Stone was really convicted of helping Donald Trump get elected. As were Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, and others the deep state FBI/DOJ is still trying to shake down.

If there were actual justice and Democrats were held to the same standard, some others with far more evidence against them would be in jail now, for perjury, "gross negligence" with confidential/top secret information, falsifying evidence sumitted to FISA/federal judgesand other crimes:

Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama
James Comey
Andrew McCabe
Peter Strzok
Lisa Page
James Baker
Bruce Ohr
Nellie Ohr
James Brennan
James Clapper
and many others.

I saw on OANN news today interviewing Rudy Giuliani that there are FIVE Ukranians who witnessed comments by ambassador Maria Jovanovich that she was using diplomatic influence to obstruct investigation of four different companies, one of them a Soros operation. He notified the FBI, and the FBI buried the evidence, to support the lying Democrat narrative that only "smears" exist against Yovanovich. They buried the evidence.

Giuliani also said that he heard about these things, and didn't just repeat them on someone else's sayso. He verified them through other sources, and then the FBI and DOJ buried the evidence he gave them. Because they're on Team Obama/Hillary.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-17 4:43 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
BBC

Link to news that several people overheard Trump talking to Sondland about investigating Biden. That would not be second hand hearsay.



So they heard a few words on one side of a telephone conversation?

I loved how George Kent and Bill Taylor testified, and one of them admitted they not only weren't in on the Trump/Zelenskyy July 25th phone call, but they never even read the released transcript. Rep. Devin Nunes said it best to Yovanovich, when she made clear she knew nothing about what Trump is accused of: "Why are you even here?"
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-17 8:25 AM
The volume on the Trump/Sondland call was so loud others could here what Trump was saying. Yovanovich's testimony adds to the picture of how Trump was using Guilliani and others to try to get Ukraine to investigate Biden. Trump can get rid of diplomats like her but it matters if it was done so to shake down another country for personal gain. That is corruption and an abuse of his office. From your vantage point who is actually seeking truth and who's trying to dodge it? Hint: the ones avoiding subpoena and talking under oath may be the actual corrupt ones.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-17 7:44 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The volume on the Trump/Sondland call was so loud others could here what Trump was saying. Yovanovich's testimony adds to the picture of how Trump was using Guilliani and others to try to get Ukraine to investigate Biden. Trump can get rid of diplomats like her but it matters if it was done so to shake down another country for personal gain. That is corruption and an abuse of his office. From your vantage point who is actually seeking truth and who's trying to dodge it? Hint: the ones avoiding subpoena and talking under oath may be the actual corrupt ones.


It's all wishful thinking on your part, that presents no new evidence of anything President Trump did wrong, and doesn't move public opinion a single millimeter toward impeachment. Quite the contrary, it has many Democrat House members questioning the wisdom of supporting impeachment.

There is no evidence.
There are no actual criminal charges.

The Mueller report that was supposed to be the silver bullet to Trump's presidency, actually exonerates Trump. In the cases of both Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton, a move toward impeachment was supported by actual crimes they were both found guilty of. Quite the opposite, the Mueller independent counsel investigation (made up entirely of 17 Trump-hating Democrats, 11 of them large Democrat campaign donors, one of them immediately emplyed prior by the Clinto n Foundation, a fox appointed to guard the henhouse), even with its incredible bias found no sufficient evidence for pursuing criminal charges.

And the architects of the Russia Hoax, and now the Ukraaine hoax, are blatant partisans with an axe that they vocally grind in the media every day, on DNCNN and MSDNC. Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, and now anonymously from the sidelines, Eric Ciaraamella, and their multitude of like-minded partisan brethren in the FBI, DOJ and State Department. That campaign donation records show all donated well over 90% for Hillary Clinton. Who are secretly slow-walking and stonewalling any evidence that exonerates Trump. Which is why Giuliani was in Ukraine investigating on his own. Because the FBI and DOJ were burying evidence that exonerates the president, forcing Giulinai to pursue tha facts himself, without the obstruction of the FBI, DOJ and Dept of State.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-17 9:59 PM
Obviously somebody hearing Trump on a phone call talking to Sondland about investigating Biden is exactly new evidence. It's right there in front of your face WB. And where are the republicans who want the WH to hand over the documents and texts that in your mind should exonerate Trump?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-17 10:03 PM
Btw I hope Rudy gets what he deserves for his role in all this. I got a chuckle out of proven liar many times over Roger Stone getting his just desserts.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-20 10:02 AM


Lt. Col Alexander Vindman today let on that he had THREE TIMES been offered to be commannder of all armed forces for the nation of Ukraine.

Gee, where would they get the idea that Vindman would leave the U.S. and have a first loyalty to another nation?
Could it possibly because he habitually badmouthed the United States and the U.S. military in the company of Russians and other foreign officials, and even around U.S. military staff, which many U.S. officials overheard and reported, and for which his superior officer verified and reprimanded Vindman for?

And why is globalist and a leaker, who habitually badmouths the military he serves in, allowed to continue serving in the National Security Council, or in the U.S. military period?

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-20 10:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Obviously somebody hearing Trump on a phone call talking to Sondland about investigating Biden is exactly new evidence. It's right there in front of your face WB. And where are the republicans who want the WH to hand over the documents and texts that in your mind should exonerate Trump?



It's exactly hearsay. As Sen. Lindsey Graham said, at least 95% of these hearings would be thrown out as hearsay the moment it got out of Schiff's House committee, and into a Senate trial.

The hard evidence is the transcribed phone call. What we've seen in these hearings is second, third and fourth-hand opinion hearsay about that transcribed call.



From the Joseph Biden, the globalist/politics as usual candidate topic:

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy, 9-27-2019


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually you would be calling it treason if a democrat did it. And I saw the transcript so don't bother trying to spin it. It's a fact Trump withheld the military aid also a fact that while doing so asked Ukrain to investigate somebody that polls show would beat him in '20.


You mean the same pollsters who said Hillary Clinton would win in a landslide in 2016, and that Trump couldn't overcome the electoral "blue wall"? It was only after the election that Democrat leadership and the Newspeak liberal media ever changed the subject from that electoral vote, and after relentlessly talked about the popular vote.

As I've said before, liberal pollsters rig the polls and stack the polls with a heavier sample of Democrat voters, to psychologically undermine Republicans and convince them of the inevitability of a Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, or Hillary Clinton victory. Dukakis was projected to win in 1988 by 17 points, how'd that election actually work out?

Regarding the released phone conversation, I'm capable of reading too.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document
I just don't buy the liberal spin of it.

If the phone conversation said what you allege it does, piece-of-excrement Rep. Adam Schiff would have quoted it, not lyingly paraphrased, not "parodied".
It doesn't say what you and the Bolsheviks in your party allege.

Zelensky has even said that Trump's battle against establishment corruption is what inspired him to run for president of Ukraine and pursue a similar battle against corruption. And AGAIN, Trump since his inauguration has been giving vast amounts of military aid to Ukraine that Obama never provided in the first 3 years of Russia's invasion. So spare me the posturing about Trump threatening or witholding aid. Democrats did nothing for Ukraine, for years.
Likewise in Syria.
Likewise Iran.
Likewise North Korea.

Trump has been pushing back against aggression on all fronts.
Democrats accuse Trump of weakness, to create a false narrative, and distract from the record of [Democrat weakness.


and





I thought I posted this before in this topic, but it was in the previous topic, before this one began.

Despite your wishful thinking, M E M, there is far less here than there was in the Mueller investigation and the 3 other federal investigations prior to that. This Ukraine hoax is so clearly a vicious contrivance, and traces right back to all the same hand-wringers at the CIA, FBI and DOJ that the Russia Hoax came from.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-20 10:57 AM



And here is White House attorney Pat Cippelone's October 8th letter to Nancy Pelosi and the other House leaders, explaining why the Trump administration is not cooperating with the House investigation, because of the inherent unfairness of the rules Democrats have set up, that violate due process.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...-cooperation-in

Comrade Commissar Adam Schiff has set up a partisan one-sided kangaroo court, that obviously has no interest in impartially finding the true facts, or giving Trump's lawyers equal access to subpoena witnesses, cross examine witnesses, or the ability to access or present exculpatory evidence to exonerate Trump.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 4:14 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Lt. Col Alexander Vindman today let on that he had THREE TIMES been offered to be commannder of all armed forces for the nation of Ukraine.

Gee, where would they get the idea that Vindman would leave the U.S. and have a first loyalty to another nation?
Could it possibly because he habitually badmouthed the United States and the U.S. military in the company of Russians and other foreign officials, and even around U.S. military staff, which many U.S. officials overheard and reported, and for which his superior officer verified and reprimanded Vindman for?

And why is globalist and a leaker, who habitually badmouths the military he serves in, allowed to continue serving in the National Security Council, or in the U.S. military period?



This is what a smear looks like. He actually was wounded fighting for this country and is guilty of getting job offers? That type of attack says more about the attacker's character than anything else. Shame on you
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 4:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Obviously somebody hearing Trump on a phone call talking to Sondland about investigating Biden is exactly new evidence. It's right there in front of your face WB. And where are the republicans who want the WH to hand over the documents and texts that in your mind should exonerate Trump?



It's exactly hearsay. As Sen. Lindsey Graham said, at least 95% of these hearings would be thrown out as hearsay the moment it got out of Schiff's House committee, and into a Senate trial.

The hard evidence is the transcribed phone call. What we've seen in these hearings is second, third and fourth-hand opinion hearsay about that transcribed call.

...



Lindsey sure turned into Trump's little bitch, lol. Outside of the republican cult hearsay doesn't mean anything you don't like though. In the real world somebody hearing Trump saying something is actually first account testimony. Lindsey has made it clear that he's going to put party over country when he declared he wouldn't read the transcripts of testimony that displeases his boss.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 8:49 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Lt. Col Alexander Vindman today let on that he had THREE TIMES been offered to be commannder of all armed forces for the nation of Ukraine.

Gee, where would they get the idea that Vindman would leave the U.S. and have a first loyalty to another nation?
Could it possibly because he habitually badmouthed the United States and the U.S. military in the company of Russians and other foreign officials, and even around U.S. military staff, which many U.S. officials overheard and reported, and for which his superior officer verified and reprimanded Vindman for?

And why is globalist and a leaker, who habitually badmouths the military he serves in, allowed to continue serving in the National Security Council, or in the U.S. military period?


This is what a smear looks like. He actually was wounded fighting for this country and is guilty of getting job offers? That type of attack says more about the attacker's character than anything else. Shame on you



I cited links for everything I said. What you spin as a "smear" are cited facts as quoted from Lt. Col. Vindman's former commanding officer(source linked above). And his commanding officer said that he got multiple complaints about Vindman, went and listened in the room where Vindman was badmouthing the U.S. military and America itself to Russian officials.

In addition he is a Democrat zealot who is quite vocal about his anti-Trump and anti-Republican opinions. And obviously, is perfectly willing to participate in an internal FBI/CIA-led coup against the United States.

I challenge you to cite what I said that was a "smear", and wasn't supported by the known facts about Vindman.


Likewise Marie Yovanovich, who was reported for making similar partisan remarks, and along with Victoria Niuland, used U.S. diplomatic muscle to make the Ukranian goverment back off from investigating corrupt companies friendly to Democrat interests, including one belonging to George Soros.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 8:58 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Obviously somebody hearing Trump on a phone call talking to Sondland about investigating Biden is exactly new evidence. It's right there in front of your face WB. And where are the republicans who want the WH to hand over the documents and texts that in your mind should exonerate Trump?



It's exactly hearsay. As Sen. Lindsey Graham said, at least 95% of these hearings would be thrown out as hearsay the moment it got out of Schiff's House committee, and into a Senate trial.

The hard evidence is the transcribed phone call. What we've seen in these hearings is second, third and fourth-hand opinion hearsay about that transcribed call.

...



Lindsey sure turned into Trump's little bitch, lol. Outside of the republican cult hearsay doesn't mean anything you don't like though. In the real world somebody hearing Trump saying something is actually first account testimony. Lindsey has made it clear that he's going to put party over country when he declared he wouldn't read the transcripts of testimony that displeases his boss.



If you weren't so brainwashed, you would realize Lindsey Graham is citing the rule of law. You can't criminally punish and destroy someone just because you wish they were guilty, and because it helps your Democrat party.

The same situation as with Brett Kavanaugh a year ago.

And Nicholas Sandmann and the Covington, KY high school kids your side wanted to lynch.

And wanting to abolish the electoral college (because it keeps them from winning elections)

And wanting to stack the U S Supreme Court (because elections and rule of law have allowed more Republican-appointed judges, that obstructs their far-left goals)

And they open borders (because that again provides more Democrat voters, and a permanent Democrat majority. If illegals voted overwhelmingly Republican, Democrats would be rabidly in support of border security, building a wall, and deporting illegals)

The Democrats have completely lost their minds, and side now against all the institutions and Constitutional protections this country has been built on for over 200 years. They have become the Bolshevik party, and they're pretty unapologetic about it. Insane. They support policies that guarantee we will fragment as a nation and destroy ourselves, for their short-term political gain.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 9:06 AM


The hearings today with E.U. ambassador Gordon Sondland have Democrat leaders and the 93% anti-Trump media all excited over Sondland's half-baked testimony, which proves nothing, and is in truth just Sondland's opinion with no facts to back it up. Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham in their respective shows tonight ripped his statements to shreds.


Barely 5 hours after it was broadcast, Youtube scrubbed every uploaded copy of Tucker Carlson's broadcast. It's that threatening to the Democrat/Leftists who work there:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tucker+carlson++nov+20+2019

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 9:35 AM



Likewise Hannity's broadcast, not even 4 hours later:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hannity+nov+20+2019
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 7:10 PM


One of two testifying right now just made her opening statement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Hill_(presidential_advisor)

Harvard scholar, studied under Daniel Pipes, Council On Foreign Relations... and then in her opening statement chastised the House Committee members during her hearings not to make any mention of Ukraine as having interfered in the 2016 U.S. election, as she sees that as a complete fiction that shouldn't even be dignified with questions! Yeah, this lady is a Hillary Clinton voter for sure.

The then-Ukranian ambassador wrote an editorial in 2016 in support of Hillary Clinton. The Ukranian embassy in the U.S. absolutely did deed information to the Russia Dossier of Glenn Simpson, Christopher Steele and Fusion GPS, which absolutely did get back-doored through Nellie Ohr/Bruce Ohr in DOJ, and Comey and McCabe in the FBI. Despite the narrative Fiona Hill would like to front. Ukranian interference in the U.S. election was definitely there, and the previous Ukrainian goverment was clearly a Democrat ally highly invested in Hillary Clinton winning the 2016 election.

The new Ukranian president was elected on an anti-corruption platform, and the Ukrainian parliament is likewise 80% reformers, but let's be honest that Ukraine had players who were definitely doing their part to influence the 2016 election, and they were definitely Hillary Clinton allies.

The Russians definitely were making an even greater effort (greater than th Ukranians) to influence the 2016 election in other ways (and even that for all their efforts had very little if any influence, with about $100,000 of internet ads, against a Hillary Clinton campaign that spent $2 billion on ads.
And Russia played both sides, also contributing to the Russia Dossier and propagandizing against Trump, with allegations of Trump caavorting with urinating Russian hookers in a Moscow hotel room and so forth. Democrats like to allege that Russians were an ally of Trump, but the truth is the Russians' goal was to undermine U.S. voters confidence in the elections, regardless of who won. And with Trump's massively increased military aid to Ukraine, the Russiaans at this point likely wish Hillary Clinton had won the election.

Regardless, their wish in 2016 was that Trump would win instead of Hillary, and their oh-so-calculated orchestrations to help "Russian assett" Donald Trump win still had them believing Hillary Clinton would win in 2016, and Russia had elaborate propaaganda planss to undermine Hillary as president. But Russian interference was so ineffective that they expected Hillary to win regardless of their interference, and they were as surprised as anyone on election night, when Trump won a landslide electoral victory in 2016.

So Fiona Hill's attempt to slinece any mention of Ukrainian 2016 election interference makes me distrust her testimony from the outset. She's clearly a globalist, a neocon, and not a Trump supporter, and that became clear in the 8 minutes of her opening statement.

It should also be pointed out that *ALL* these witnesses are Adam Schiff's picks, that any of the witnesses House Republicans wanted subpoenaed were rejected. All witnesses in these hearings are strictly Democrat picks, and only inadvertantly will any of these witnesses present opinions or evidence that supports or exculpates Trump.




And...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Holmes_(diplomat)

David Holmes is testifying alongside Fiona Hill. That he served in the Ukraine embassy alongside Bill Taylor, and describes himself as a great supporter of Marie Yovanovich (Yovanovich, who openly bashed Trump in front of other staff before she was fired in March 2019, and planned a victory party for Hillary Clinton's presumed election win in 2016) makes pretty clear where Holmes' allegiances are.
The phone call Holmes partially overheard again is spun by Holmes against Trump. But all it really shows is that Zelensky and Trump had shared anti-corruption goals, not that Trump exerted any intimidation or undue influence over Zelensky. And ultimately is just a hearsay confirmation of what was in the July 25th transcribed Trump/Zelensky phone call, despite the best efforts to spin it otherwise.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 9:22 PM



Tucker's big takeaways from the Trump impeachment saga
Tucker Carlson, Wednesday, Nov 20, 2019



Trump to Sondland (that Sondland oddly omitted from his 23-page opening statement at the hearing): "I don't want quid pro quo, I want Zelensky to do the right thing, what he campaigned on [investigating and eliminating corruption]."

and

All four of Sondland's attorneys were career-long partisan Democrat loyalists, one of whom cited gave over $130,000 in campaign donations to Democrats over the years. So 1) Sondland is either a Democrat partisan himself, or 2) Sondland was given advice against his own best interests by his Democrat partisan lawyers, to damage Trump. And/or 3) Sondland, a wealthy businessman has been enormous pressure and intimidation of Leftist mob protestors who are threatening and hurting his private businesses and livelihood, and may have testified the way he did because of those concerns.






Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-21 10:38 PM



Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-OH) just made a great commentary on the "disproven myth" that Fiona Hill alleges: That Alexandra Chalupa (a Democrat operative who fed information from the Ukranian embassy into the Fusion GPS/Russia Dossier, and from there into the DOJ and FBI in 2016, influencing the election) was on the Republican list of witnesses for the hearings, that Adam Schiff prevented from Republicans being able to have appear and cross examine.

Because Democrats are only interested in what supports their lying narrative, not uncovering the true facts.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-22 12:05 AM




Press conference yesterday of Rep. Jim Jordan(R-OH) and Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY), on the bottom line of testimony and evidence that exonerates President Trump.
And of Rep. Adam Schiff's doing his damnest to exclude witnesses and cross examination, to obscure the truth.


Jordan, Stefanik respond to Sondland's impeachment testimony
Tuesday, Nov 20, 2019


As if the July 25 phone call transcript didn't already show what the truth was beforehand, despite Adam Schiff's best efforts to muddy the waters.


1) by the July 25th transcript, a friendly conversation, no intimidation, no "quid pro quo", no intimidation, no blackmail.
2) by Kurt Volker's and backhandedly by Gordon Sondland's testimony, no quid pro quo, no preconditions for Trump to release Ukraine aid.
3) Aid was ultimately released without Ukranian president Zelensky giving a press conference.

And everything else is just lying Democrat insinuation, wild speculation and hearsay.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-22 12:52 AM


'WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU': Jim Jordan CALLS OUT Schiff For knowing who's the Whistleblower, Nov 19, 2019



I love, LOVE, this clip! Where Rep. Jim Jordan busts Adam Schiff for breaking in on this question of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman.

Rep. Schiff gets jumpy and hysterical because he says the question is "dangerously close" to revealing who the Whistleblower is (a k a, CIA analyst Eric Ciaramella, that every House member on that panel already knows, as does anyone intelligent enough to do a google-search for "whistleblower's name", despite that the liberal media is not publicizing it.)
  • REP. JIM JORDAN [to Schiff:] "Mr Chairman, I don't see how this is outing the Whistleblower. The witness [Vindman] has testified that he doesn't know who the whistleblower is. You have said... even though no one believes you... you have said you don't know who the whistleblower is. So how is this outing the whistleblower, to find out who this individial is [that Vindman disclosed the content of the July 25th phone Trump/Zelensky phone call to]."

If Adam Schiff doesn't know who the whistleblower is, how does he know exactly what questions will reveal his identity? To the point that he freaks out and stops Jordan's questioning.

It's quite obvious Schiff knows EXACTLY who the whistleblower is. And no, no one believes Schiff.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-22 1:44 AM


Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) outlines well the unanswered quesions, even after 5 days of hearings with top security officials, who clearly were in the same inner circle as the Whistleblower:

Nunes lists questions for whistleblower in opening statement Tuesday, Nov 19, 2019


Despite at least 40 hours of testimony, none of these obvious questions have been answered.


Articles of supporting evidence mentioned by Rep. Nunes at the end:


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-22 4:42 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Obviously somebody hearing Trump on a phone call talking to Sondland about investigating Biden is exactly new evidence. It's right there in front of your face WB. And where are the republicans who want the WH to hand over the documents and texts that in your mind should exonerate Trump?



It's exactly hearsay. As Sen. Lindsey Graham said, at least 95% of these hearings would be thrown out as hearsay the moment it got out of Schiff's House committee, and into a Senate trial.

The hard evidence is the transcribed phone call. What we've seen in these hearings is second, third and fourth-hand opinion hearsay about that transcribed call.

...



Lindsey sure turned into Trump's little bitch, lol. Outside of the republican cult hearsay doesn't mean anything you don't like though. In the real world somebody hearing Trump saying something is actually first account testimony. Lindsey has made it clear that he's going to put party over country when he declared he wouldn't read the transcripts of testimony that displeases his boss.



If you weren't so brainwashed, you would realize Lindsey Graham is citing the rule of law. You can't criminally punish and destroy soimeone just because you wish they were guilty, and because it helps you Democrat party.

The same situation as with Brett Kavanaugh a year ago.

And Nicholas Sandmann and the Covington, KY high school kids your side wanted to lynch.

And wanting to abolish the electoral college (because it keeps them from winning elections)

And wanting to stack the U S Supreme Court (because elections and rule of law have allowed more Republican-appointed judges, that obstructs their far-left goals)

And they open borders (because that again provides more Democrat voters, and a permanent Democrat majority. If illegals voted overwhelmingly Republican, Democrats would be rabidly in support of border security, building a wall, and deporting illegals)

The Democrats have completely lost their minds, and side now against all the institutions and Constitutional protections this country has been built on for over 200 years. They have become the Bolshevik party, and they're pretty unapologetic about it. Insane. They support policies that guarantee we will fragment as a nation and destroy ourselves, for their short-term political gain.





Lindsey lost any shred of credibility when he announced he wasn't going to read the transcripts of testimony while trying to shut down the impeachment proceedings. History will show that he and many others worked to protect a corrupt president.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-23 5:02 AM



TRUMP IS UP 5% IN POLLS SINCE DEMOCRATS BEGAN IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS

 Quote:
By S.A. Miller - The Washington Times -
Thursday, November 21, 2019



A larger share of American voters now oppose the impeachment effort against President Trump, revealed a new poll released Thursday.

An Emerson College national survey found 45% of voters oppose impeachment, compared to 43% that support it.

That’s a reversal of public opinion from the same poll in October before House Democrats held public hearings to showcase their impeachment case against Mr. Trump. In October, 48% supported impeachment and 44% opposed it.


“The biggest swing is among Independents, who oppose impeachment now 49% to 34%, which is a reversal from October where they supported impeachment 48% to 39%,” said the pollsters.

Mr. Tump’s approval rating also increased to 48%, a bounce from 43% approval last month.



As the true facts become known, despite Rep. Adam Schiff's best efforts to hide them, public opinion is shifting. People know they've been lied to by the Democrats.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-23 5:49 AM


 Quote:
Lindsey lost any shred of credibility when he announced he wasn't going to read the transcripts of testimony while trying to shut down the impeachment proceedings. History will show that he and many others worked to protect a corrupt president.


I saw Graham interviewed 2 nights ago, if I recall on Tucker Carlson.

He half-jokingly said he's still fully reading the Mueller report and then will digest the 600 pages finally released from Adam Schiff's closed-door hearings depositions, and Graham commented on how Senate and House members are buried in lengthy reports, soon to be followed by even more new reports from DOJ inspector general Horowitz, U S attorney John Durhaam, and attorney general William Barr.

No doubt your Media Matters propaganda and other liberal sources (96% of the media at last count) demonize Lindsey Graham, without shedding light on how many Democrats haven't read this material, or how many legislation bills they vote on without having read them.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-23 6:32 AM
Lindsey made a point of saying he wasn't reading the transcripts while he was scurrying around trying to stop the House impeachment inquiry. Not really great principles imho. I believe he recently met with Trump with other republican senators to coordinate the likely impeachment trial. Not even an attempt to act like a potential juror. To busy trying to protect the corruption.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-23 7:00 PM
“Thank God no one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore," Putin said at an economic forum in Moscow, according to the Associated Press. "Now they’re accusing Ukraine.”
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 12:05 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
“Thank God no one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore," Putin said at an economic forum in Moscow, according to the Associated Press. "Now they’re accusing Ukraine.”



So that would be your party, the Democrats, doing the propagandist bidding of Vladimir Putin?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 12:10 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
“Thank God no one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore," Putin said at an economic forum in Moscow, according to the Associated Press. "Now they’re accusing Ukraine.”



So that would be your party, the Democrats, doing the propagandist bidding of Vladimir Putin?





Also, as Devin Nunes' own Congressional report on the Russian 2016 election interference attempts (which Nunez re-entered into record during this week's hearings), Republicans have never alleged that either Ukraine alone interefered in the 2016 U.S. election, or not even that a majority of 2016 interference came from Ukraine, only that there were several prominent Ukranian officials in the pre-Zelensky government who directly interfered, participated in the Fusion GPS "Russia Dossier" and clearly wanted Hillary Clinton to win.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 12:55 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Lindsey made a point of saying he wasn't reading the transcripts while he was scurrying around trying to stop the House impeachment inquiry. Not really great principles imho. I believe he recently met with Trump with other republican senators to coordinate the likely impeachment trial. Not even an attempt to act like a potential juror. To busy trying to protect the corruption.



Asked and answered.

As I said, I told you what Graham actually said, that there are a lot of reports recently released to read. Your version sounds like a Media Matters spin taken out of context to demonize him.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 1:33 AM


Horowitz reportedly finds FBI lawyer falsified FISA doc; WaPo stealth-deletes Strzok connection

 Quote:
Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz has found evidence that an FBI lawyer manipulated a key investigative document related to the FBI's secretive surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser -- enough to change the substantive meaning of the document, according to multiple reports.

The show-stopping development comes as Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told Fox News that Horowitz's comprehensive report on allegations of Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant abuse against former Trump campaign aide Carter Page will be released on Dec. 9. "That's locked," Graham said.

The new evidence concerning the altered document, which pertained to the FBI's FISA court warrant application to surveil Page, is expected to be outlined in Horowitz's upcoming report. CNN first reported the news, which was largely confirmed by The Washington Post.

But the Post, hours after publishing its story, conspicuously removed the portion of its reporting that the FBI employee involved worked "beneath" Peter Strzok, the FBI's since-fired head of counterintelligence. The Post did not offer an explanation for the change, which occurred shortly after midnight. Earlier this week, the DOJ highlighted a slew of anti-Trump text messages sent by Strzok when he was leading the Hillary Clinton email investigation and the probe into the Trump campaign.

"The person under scrutiny has not been identified but is not a high-ranking official — they worked beneath former deputy assistant director Peter Strzok, according to people familiar with the investigation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss material that has not yet been made public," The Post wrote in its now-deleted paragraph.

WAYBACK MACHINE SHOWS ORIGINAL VERSION OF WASHINGTON POST'S STORY, BEFORE STEALTH DELETION

The paper eventually added a correction to the bottom of its piece, reading, "Correction: An earlier version of this story erroneously stated that the FBI employee being investigated for altering a document worked underneath former Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok. The employee was a low-level lawyer in the Office of General Counsel and did not report to the deputy assistant director."

Nevertheless, Horowitz reportedly found that the FBI employee was involved enough in the FISA process to falsely state that he had "documentation to back up a claim he had made in discussions with the Justice Department about the factual basis" for the FISA warrant application, the Post reported. Then, the FBI employee allegedly "altered an email" to substantiate his inaccurate version of events. The employee has since been forced out of the bureau.


In its initial 2016 FISA warrant application, the FBI flatly called Page "an agent of a foreign power."

Sources told Fox News last month that U.S. Attorney John Durham's separate, ongoing probe into potential FBI and Justice Department misconduct in the run-up to the 2016 election through the spring of 2017 has transitioned into a full-fledged criminal investigation -- and that Horowitz's report will shed light on why Durham's probe has become a criminal inquiry.

FBI AGENTS MANIPULATED FLYNN FILE, AS CLAPPER ORDERED 'KILL SHOT,' FILING SAYS


Durham has reportedly taken up Horowitz's findings concerning the falsified FISA document, meaning the ex-FBI lawyer who made the changes is now under criminal investigation. The Post indicated, however, that the document was not central to the legality of the FISA warrant obtained against Page.

Republicans have long argued that the FBI's alleged FISA abuses, which came as the bureau aggressively pursued ultimately unsubstantiated claims of criminal links between the Trump team and Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign, were politically motivated. In recent months, a series of unearthed documents has strengthened those claims.

Just nine days before the FBI applied for its first FISA warrant to surveil Page, bureau officials were battling with a senior Justice Department official who had "continued concerns" about the "possible bias" of a source pivotal to the application, according to internal text messages previously obtained by Fox News.

The 2016 messages, sent between Lisa Page and then-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, also revealed that bureau brass circulated at least two anti-Trump blog articles, including a Lawfare blog post sent shortly after Election Day that called Trump possibly "among the major threats to the security of the country."


DOJ OUTLINES STRZOK 'SECURITY VIOLATIONS'; FINDS 'PARANOID' CASE AGENT NOTICED STRZOK WAS SITTING ON WEINER LAPTOP


Fox News is told the texts were connected to the ultimately successful Page application, which relied in part on information from British ex-spy Christopher Steele – whose anti-Trump views are now well-documented – and cited Page’s suspected Russia ties. In its warrant application, the FBI inaccurately assured the FISA court on numerous occasions that media sources independently corroborated Steele's claims, and did not clearly state that Steele worked for a firm hired by Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

Much of the Steele dossier has been proved discredited or unsubstantiated, including the dossier's claims that the Trump campaign was paying hackers in the United States out of a non-existent Russian consulate in Miami, or that ex-Trump lawyer Michael Cohen traveled to Prague to conspire with Russians. Special Counsel Robert Mueller also was unable to substantiate the dossier's claims that Carter Page had received a large payment relating to the sale of a share of Rosneft, a Russian oil giant, or that a lurid blackmail tape involving the president existed.

Despite being accused by the FBI of being a Russian agent in the FISA application, and being secretly surveilled for more than a year, Page has not been charged with any wrongdoing. He has since sued numerous actors -- including the DNC -- for defamation related to claims that he worked with Russia.


DISPUTE ERUPTS AS BRENNAN, COMEY APPEAR TO DISPUTE WHO PUSHED THE STEELE DOSSIER

"OI [Office of Intelligence] now has a robust explanation re any possible bias of the chs [confidential human source] in the package," Lisa Page wrote to McCabe on Oct. 12, 2016. "Don't know what the holdup is now, other than Stu's continued concerns."

It's unclear whether the confidential source in question was Steele or another individual. "Stu" was an apparent reference to Stuart Evans, then the DOJ's National Security Division deputy assistant attorney general. In one previously unearthed and since-unredacted text message, Strzok texted Page that he was "Currently fighting with Stu for this FISA" in late 2016.

Page is not the only Trump official to allege misconduct by the FBI. Last month, an explosive court filing from Michael Flynn’s legal team alleged that FBI agents manipulated official records of the former national security adviser’s 2017 interview that led to him being charged with lying to investigators. Flynn's attorneys demanded the FBI search its internal "Sentinel" system to find more evidence of allegedly doctored files.

CNN'S CUOMO FAILS TO ASK EX-INTEL OFFICIALS ABOUT HIS NETWORK'S OWN BOMBSHELL REPORT



Newly released text messages involving text messages between Strzok and former FBI lawyer Lisa Page revealed that Page -- who was not present for the Flynn interview -- had apparently made "edits" to the so-called "302" witness report in the case, which was key to Flynn's prosecution on a false statements charge. Page told Strzok on February 10, 2017 that she “gave my edits to Bill to put on your desk.”

Horowitz told congressional lawmakers in an October letter that his investigation and ensuing report were nearing their conclusion.

FBI BLAMES SYSTEM-WIDE SOFTWARE FAILURE FOR MISSING STRZOK TEXTS -- PHONE FROM MUELLER DAYS TOTALLY WIPED

The "lengthy" draft report "concerns sensitive national security and law enforcement matters," Horowitz wrote in the letter, adding that he anticipated "the final report will be released publicly with few redactions."

Horowitz noted that he did not anticipate a need to prepare or issue "separate classified and public versions of the report."

"After we receive the final classification markings from the Department and the FBI, we will then proceed with our usual process for preparing a final report, including ensuring that appropriate reviews occur for accuracy and comment purposes," Horowitz wrote in the letter. "Once begun, we do not anticipate the time for that review to be lengthy."




As usual, the facts point to a conspiracy and cover-up revealed by incriminating texts by Strzok, Page, McCabe and other players in the FBI, along with other collaborative hiding of the true facts by CIA and other intelligence, and the ever-Zealous anti-Trump Newspeak media.

All this week, over nothing but opinion and hearsay, from witnesses like Alexander Vindman and Gordon Sondland and Fiona Hill, who revealed nothing were secribed by the media as "bombshell" and "IED".
And when actual revelations like this are revealed, the media doesn't even want to report it.

The above is >>>>>FAR<<<<< more "bombshell", "explosive" and "I E D" a revelation than anything revealed in two weeks of empty and uneventful impeachment hearings.

And the liberal media definitely don't want to hold to account their lying cocksmoker brethren at the Washington Post. For more than 10 years, from the "Journo-list" exposure of 2008, to the 2016 Wikileaks internal DNC e-mails that revealed how the media were asking permission from the Hillary Clinton campaign to run a story and perfectly willing to spike it if asked by the Hillary campaign, so as not to damage her campaign with anything too compromising, and countless media exposures in between, it's clear how untrustworthy and Democrat-partisan the liberal media consistently is.

And even more scary, how Democrat-partisan the FBI, CIA, National Security Council, and State Department and its embassy staffers abroad are.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 1:36 AM




Judicial Watch Obtains Strzok-Page Emails Showing FBI’s Special Accommodation of Clinton Email Witnesses
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 1:39 AM
From USA Today...
"
WASHINGTON – Sen. Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters on Tuesday he does not plan to read the newly released transcripts of testimony in the House impeachment inquiry, calling the entire process an illegitimate "sham."

"I've written the whole process off," Graham said, according to CBS News and The Associated Press. "I think this is a bunch of B.S."

Every major news outlet carried this story from the looks of a google search. So you are incorrect WB. When testimony started showing evidence of a quid pro quo Lindsey did say he wasn't going to read the transcripts he had previously demanded be made public. He is truly Trump's little bitch these days.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 1:45 AM



JUDICIAL WATCH SUES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OVER 'MISSING' STRZOK-PAGE TEXT MESSAGES DELETED BY MUELLER SPECIAL COUNSEL


That's a ton of evidence for the liberal media to sweep under the rug and pretend doesn't exist, while they pursue their factless Trump impeachment narrative.

And it's pissing off a lot of voters, as the polls reflect.

Whether the Dems and collaborative lying media sell it as "quid pro quo", or awkwardly shift the lying narrative to focus-group selected words like "bribery", "extortion", "coersion", or the Dems' latest desperate reach for a new narrative, "contempt of congress" and "obstruction of justice"... their snake oil continues to not sell to the public.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 1:54 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
From USA Today...
"
WASHINGTON – Sen. Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters on Tuesday he does not plan to read the newly released transcripts of testimony in the House impeachment inquiry, calling the entire process an illegitimate "sham."

"I've written the whole process off," Graham said, according to CBS News and The Associated Press. "I think this is a bunch of B.S."

Every major news outlet carried this story from the looks of a google search. So you are incorrect WB. When testimony started showing evidence of a quid pro quo Lindsey did say he wasn't going to read the transcripts he had previously demanded be made public. He is truly Trump's little bitch these days.



Graham clearly has a familiarity with what is being said in the House impeachment hearings, and doesn't have to read every word of it.

And even if he didn't read it, the news media, both liberal and conservative, has made clear there is no evidence, the most damning things said by Alexander Vindman, Gordon Sondland, Fiona Hill and David Holmes are ultimately just their opinions and speculations, without evidence. Many testifying didn't even listen in on the Trump/Zelensky phone call that is the genesis of all this!

So Graham's assessment that it's all "B.S." is accurate, and one shared by a majority of American voters polled. While he is aware of content of the hearings, he is right not to dwell too much on it.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-24 5:05 PM
Let's be clear, Lindsey said he wasn't reading them. I don't give a shit what Trump's little bitch says at this point to protect his guy. There isn't the slightest appearance of somebody trying to act as a potential juror.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-25 4:57 PM
Apparently the WH did a review turning up emails trying to justify the hold on the foreign aid after the fact.
WP

And there's reporting that Nunes was also involved in the dirt digging for the Biden's. The illusion the GOP is maintaining shatters once the documents and testimony gets out. And the terrible part is you guys know it. This would be the stuff that would exonerate the president if he hadn't been trying to shake down a foreign country yet I hear little or no support from republicans to get that information.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-25 6:39 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
“Thank God no one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore," Putin said at an economic forum in Moscow, according to the Associated Press. "Now they’re accusing Ukraine.”



So that would be your party, the Democrats, doing the propagandist bidding of Vladimir Putin?



I think your smart enough and aware of current events to know how silly your being there. Just this Sunday I watched Wallace on his show ask senator Kennedy about the Russia/Ukraine election interference stuff and Kennedy went with a "we don't know" answer on it. Our intelligence as Chris Wallace brought up does know though. Because it's embarrassing though to Trump we get republicans parroting Russian troll farms garbage.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 4:43 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
“Thank God no one is accusing us of interfering in the U.S. elections anymore," Putin said at an economic forum in Moscow, according to the Associated Press. "Now they’re accusing Ukraine.”



So that would be your party, the Democrats, doing the propagandist bidding of Vladimir Putin?





I think your smart enough and aware of current events to know how silly your being there. Just this Sunday I watched Wallace on his show ask senator Kennedy about the Russia/Ukraine election interference stuff and Kennedy went with a "we don't know" answer on it. Our intelligence as Chris Wallace brought up does know though. Because it's embarrassing though to Trump we get republicans parroting Russian troll farms garbage.


Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, yes.

And he said we (the nation, the media, FBI/CIA intelligence, the Washington elite) don't know, because WE DON'T KNOW!
He laid out several possible scenarios, within the parameters of what is known. Kennedy is one of my favorite Senators because of his common sense approach and witty colloquialisms.

As Sen. Kennedy and others have said, the true goal of the Russians with their interference in 2016 was to undermine confidence in the elections, no matter which party won the election.
And the Democrats are advancing that Russian goal EVERY DAY since Trump won the election.

The Mueller report (and a 10-month FBI counter-intelligence investigation, and a House investigation, and a Senate investigation, preceding the final Mueller report) ALL said there was no Trump/Russia collusion, and that Russia for all their efforts did not affect the outcome of the election. In point of fact, the Russians' intercepted communications show that they thought Hillary Clinton would win, and they were preparing to launch attacks on her credibility and undermine her as president.
THAT's how much the Russians orchestrated a Trump victory. They couldn't even predict accurately who the winner would be.

As Tucker Carlson said, the Russians spent about $100,000 on internet ads, about what a typical local auto dealership spends annually on advertising. And even with those ads, a viewer had to click on the ad to even see the Russian propaganda. Against a $2 billion Hillary Clinton campaign that outspent even Trump's campaign by a ratio of 2-to-1, that $100,000 was insignificant.

What has been significant is the 3 years of House/Senate Democrats and the allied 93% anti-Trump media selling the Russians' propaganda talking points every day for 3 years since before Trump was inaugurated. And then incredibly, blaming Trump for causing the lack of public confidence in our system.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 4:51 AM
The Chris Wallace/Sen John Kennedy interview in question:

Sen. Kennedy slams Pelosi for using impeachment as 'routine political weapon' Fox News Sunday, Nov 24, 2019


I did not see (in the closing minutes) that Wallace presented anything resembling absolute proof of what he alleged. Wallace just alleged that NSC official Fiona Hill in testimony said so, and Kennedy said her opinion was offered as fact.

Fiona Hill is, I think, quite clearly a Hillary Clinton voter, and part of a club within the State Department (including House committee witnesses Vindman, Taylor, Holmes and Kent)that is hostile to and undermining President Trump's policy. Fiona Hill also said in a published editorial in 2015 that the U.S. should not offer armed assistance to the Ukranians.

I also see Wallace as one of many on Fox News who is a liberal, if not a liberal partisan, along with the recently resigned Shepard Smith, Judge Nick Napolitano, and (one I respect a lot) pulitzer-winning forme N Y Times reporter Judith Miller. While Fox certainly has its hardline conservative opinion shows, I think Wallace and others show Fox News presents both sides, and not invested in selling a narrative as the other mainstream networks.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 5:30 AM
Actually Wallace stated what all our intelligence has found. It's Trump and company that ends up downplaying the findings. Kennedy when he says he doesn't know actually does know because even the republican lead investigation came up with the same conclusion. Chris Wallace isn't a liberal. These days though if a conservative doesn't tow the Trump partisan line on a lot of things they get labeled as such. He's still a serious journalist who can't just go with the lies.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 6:20 AM



Rep. Adam Schiff, who has led the charge for 3 years now for impeachment, who has alleged he had "absolute proof" that Trump was guilty of Russia collusion that he could not present publicly (an allegation destroyed by the Mueller Report)... over the weekend in an interview asked if he would vote for impeachment now says he "will talk to his constituents" before he decides to vote for impeachment.


\:lol\:

If Demcorats vote for impeachment, it will be completely without evidence. Popular opinion began to turn against the House Demcorats over the last 2 weeks, as witnesses like Alexander Vindman, George Kent, William Taylor, David Holmes, Fiona Hill and others had nothing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, NO EVIDENCE to support their allegations of "quid pro quo" by Trump in his conversation witht he Ukranian president.

Many Republicans have said since Friday that the impeachment push by the House Democrats is over, that even if they deceitfully still vote for impeachment, it is so vissibly false to the American public that it will only further damage the Democrats in the 2020 election.

Many have speculated that the House Democrats at this point cannot even get the votes within their own House majority to push forward impeachment. Schiff's waffle here, after 3 years of vigorous allegations of "absolute proof" for impeachment are the latest manifestation that the ground is crumbling underneath them.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 6:42 AM
Sondland's testimony as well as others is evidence even if you don't want to admit it. And any obstruction article would certainly be worthy. Do you really think Trump is blocking records and testimony that he thinks would actually clear him? How would that even make sense?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 6:52 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually Wallace stated what all our intelligence has found. It's Trump and company that ends up downplaying the findings. Kennedy when he says he doesn't know actually does know because even the republican lead investigation came up with the same conclusion. Chris Wallace isn't a liberal. These days though if a conservative doesn't tow the Trump partisan line on a lot of things they get labeled as such. He's still a serious journalist who can't just go with the lies.


Quote it!

Wallace did not say that. I just posted the Youtubed video of it above.

And what you say about "if a conservative doesn't tow the Trump partisan line on a lot of things they get labeled as such" is horseshit.

It has been cited that for most of Trump's campaign and presidency, even among conservative pundits on Fox, the majority of conservatives are never-Trumper conservatives. Some I can think of offhand are Guy Benson, Jonah Goldberg, Ben Shapiro, Nick Napolitano, Richard Lowry (National Review), and even Glenn Beck, who became a Trump supporter based on Trump's accomplishments, Beck converting about a year after Trump's inauguration. That even on Fox News, never-Trumper conservative opinion is represented in a far greater ratio on-air than it exists among Republican voters nationwide. There are many Trump conservative critics on Fox I can respect as having honest well-thought-out disagreement on aa particular issue, rather than just regarding them partisanly anti-Trump. But there certainly are never-Trumpers as well.

I'd put Wallace in the same category as Tim Russert on Meet The Press, where he is a good reporter but still a liberal, and while perhaps unconsciously slipping in a partisan spin here and there, he gets away with it because he is a respected journalist.

I used to feel the same about Charlie Rose, that (circa 1998-2007) whatever his political views, Rose during interviews came across as neutral. But in the Obama years Charlie Rose became an unquestionable partisan, anti-Trump and anti-Republican.

Wallace isn't in the blatant-partisan category yet, but in just the last few weeks during the impeachment hearings, it annoyed me how Wallace in post-hearings commentary each day just absolutely couldn't bring himself to say that the Democrats at any point had a bad day in the hearings, or that Dems and witnesses had failed to make a case and present evidence of crimes by Trump.

Alan Dershowitz, a liberal attorney, is able to acknowledge that visible loss by the Dems more than "objective/neutral" Chris Wallace.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 7:10 AM
From the FOX transcript...
"WALLACE: Well, let me interrupt to say -- the entire intelligence community says it was Russia.

KENNEDY: Right, but it could also be Ukraine. I'm not saying that I know one way or the other. I'm saying that Ms. Hill is entitled to her opinion but no rebuttal evidence was allowed to be offered."
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 7:34 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Sondland's testimony as well as others is evidence even if you don't want to admit it. And any obstruction article would certainly be worthy. Do you really think Trump is blocking records and testimony that he thinks would actually clear him? How would that even make sense?



Gordon Sondland had no proof!

Sondland basically said that is my opinion.
To which the Republican House member questioning him said: ""And that is nothing."

The next closest thing to actual evidence was David Holmes saying he overheard a portion of a cel-phone call of Sondland, a call that that was not on speaker-phone, where he could allegedly hear a portion of what Trump shouted over the phone. Which Trump made fun of, saying he has tried many times to overhear other's cel phone calls, and this was impossible. Even if Holmes had heard anything, it was at best only pieces of the total conversation. And I believe he is a partisan/deepstate Demcorat, just trying to damage Trump.
As is Fiona Hill.
As is Gregory Kent.
As is William Taylor.
As is, most obviously, Marie Yovanovich. Who actually held a Hillary Clinton victory party on election night 2016, in addition to pressing the Ukranian government with a list of Democrat-friendly compaanies they were instructed not to investigate for corruption. In addition to her being overheard by both Ukranian and State Department/embassy officials making pre- and post-election disparaging remarks about Trump.

Only opinions and speculation, and fourth-hand gossip were presented at the impeachment hearings, no actual "evidence". And then Republicans were not allowed to call their own witnesses, present exculpatory evidence, and often were shut down by Schiff when they tried to ask cross-examination questions!

Mark Levin last night on his Life Liberty Levin program cited that the U.S. Constitution was based on the British Magna Carta, and that Schiff broke not only Donald Trump's Constitutional rights, but every one of the Magna Carta rights that existed prior to the U.S. Constitution for 500 years!

Trunp does not have the right to face his accuser, the right to even know who his accuser is (the whistleblower/rat, Eric Ciaramella), does not have the basic right to call witnesses in his defense, does not have the right to cross examine witnesses presented by his opposition, does not have the right to present exculatory evidence proving his innocence... everything is controlled by Adam Schiff and the other Democrats, and when House Republicans like Nunes, Jordan, Stefanik, Ratcliffe, Turner, Wenstrup and others asked questions that exposed the truth, Schiff raised his voice and shut them down.

But even through all these layers of Democrat hijacking of the process and deception, the American public ses through it, and that is already showing up in the polls, in Trump's favor.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 8:50 PM




Mark Levin, Life, Liberty & Levin November 24, 2019


Detailing the Magna Carta basis for Constitutional law in the U.S., and the deprivation of due process to Donald Trump during this impeachment inquiry. And the quoted Constitutional standard for impeachment that is not being followed.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 9:21 PM
You use the word standard for a constitutional process that has only been applied to 3 presidents. Impeachment is a constitutional process and democrats are following what is in the constitution. Trump trying to block testimony and documents clearly isn't a principled stance. He's not a king nor above the law. And really how does it make sense to you that he wouldn't want his people testifying and documents released? After all in your world it would clear him. I think you know otherwise though. Sadly most of your party seems willing to support and protect the corruption as he faces no pressure from republicans to follow the law. Subpoena's are apparently okay to ignore if you don't want to.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 9:36 PM


And also from Sunday night, Steve Hilton, former advisor to British prime minister James Cameron:

Steve Hilton: The truth about impeachment Sunday, Nov 24, 2019



I like Hilton's populist approach on his show, where he is critical of corruption in both parties. He focuses a lot on "the swamp" of campaign finance/lobbyist corruption, and establishment elistism tht infects both parties.

His insights from the impeachment hearings over the last week:
1) According to hearings testimony of both Kurt Volker and Gordon Sondland (quoted) State Department diplomats themselves tried to extort public guarantees from Ukraine they would pursue anti-corruption investigations, to try and change Trump's opinion of giving aid to Ukraine .
2) The State DEepartment and NSC bureaucrats testifying say they are not partisan. But beyond Democrat and Republican partisanship, they clearly are partisans for the establishment elite, in opposition to reformers like Trump and his administration. Territorially lashing out at Trump and anyone who challenges their establishment policy.
3) The lying joint narrative of both House Democrats and their allies in the liberal media, that Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate Biden just because he is a 2020 political rival. When in fact, Trump has very legitimate reasons for wanting Biden investigated, because Biden, the DNC, and the Hillary Clinton campaign interfered in the 2016 election while he was Vice President, manipulated events so that his son was put on the board of Burisma (one of the most corrupt companies in Ukraine, that was also under investigation by Obama officials since 2014). And that Trump's duty as executive is to root out that kind of corruption and enforce our laws, such as investigating Burisma/Biden corruption that was criticized in the news media and the Obama administration, long before Trump was even a presidential candidate. Until they (Dems and the media)changed their narrative and accused Trump of personal motives, for pursuing exactly what they themselves had criticized before Trump was even president! That Trump has abundant legitimate basis for asking Ukraine to investigate The Bidens and Burisma, not because of political opportunism regarding 2020, but because the Joseph Biden had enormous political power over Ukraine and enriched his son with that power, and openly boasted (on video!) about using that power to stop the investigation of his son with the threat of witholding $1.5 billion in U.S. aid to Ukraine. That even The Obama administration and the liberal media had previously investigated before Trump became president. The ironies abound.

I'd also add that regardless of the negative press Biden has received over his son and Ukraine, Biden has been gradually declining in the polls since he entered in April, that Trump never needed to eliminate Biden with dirt from Ukraine, Biden's daily gaffs would eventually eliminate him as a candidate, even if there were no Ukraine story. "Creepy" woman and girl groping Joe, gaff-prone Joe, what city am I in Joe, beat the shit out of violence toward women Joe. The only thing that has kept Biden afloat is how crazy-left the other Democrat candidates are, so that Democrat voters who really have no enthusiasm for Biden cling to him as a moderate who they see as the only prayer of beating Trump in Nov 2020.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-26 9:59 PM
From yesterday's judicial ruling....
""It is clear to this court for the reasons explained above that, with respect to senior-level presidential aides, absolute immunity from compelled congressional process simply does not exist," Jackson said in her ruling.

"Presidents are not kings," she added.

"This means that they do not have subjects, bound by loyalty or blood, whose destiny they are entitled to control," Jackson said. "Rather, in this land of liberty, it is indisputable that current and former employees of the White House work for the people of the United States. ... "
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-28 4:56 PM
Rudy Giuliani tried to score big bucks in Ukraine

He needs to testify under oath as well as the other players in holding the Ukrainian foreign aid.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-30 5:45 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Rudy Giuliani tried to score big bucks in Ukraine

He needs to testify under oath as well as the other players in holding the Ukrainian foreign aid.



I find it an infuriating slander, and really hard to believe, that Rudy Giuliani, who prosecuted the Mafia heads and had his life threatened by them, that even in those extreme circumstances he wouldn't cave in to intimidation or a payoff, but that he would be involved in something along those lines now in a place as piddly and blatantly corrupt as Ukraine.

Giuliani was in Ukraine collecting his own facts because he couldn't rely on the information on Ukraine that had been shelved and buried away from him by the Deep State FBI and DOJ to protect the Dems and hurt Trump, so he went to Ukraine to get information unfiltered, directly from the source.

As with A G William Barr and U.S. attorney John Durham, House and Senate Democrats are maliciously attacking Giuliani to defame him in advance and destroy his credibility, so that whatever he reveals later will not be believed.

Your vicious, unprincipled scorched-earth Democrat party at work. The same treatment given to Brett Kavanaugh and Nicholas Sandmann, and of course, to Trump and any official of the Trump administration. Par for the Bolshevik Democrat course.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-30 6:06 AM


Rudy Giuliani's net worth: $45 million
https://www.famousbirthsdeaths.com/rudy-giuliani-bio-net-worth-facts/


I find it hard to believe someone with a personal fortune of $45 million would ever feel the need, or take the risk, of doing anything self-defaming or criminal to rake in a few hundred thousand more. Particularly someone of Giuliani's impeccable law enforcement background.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-11-30 5:24 PM
Powerful, wealthy people commit crimes all the time. And I would point to Trump and Rudy as being "vicious, unprincipled and scorched earth" instead. After all who is preaching that one side hates America? Who is fighting like hell to stop any investigation into their actions into Ukraine? Documents and testimony that you would think an innocent party would want released is being blocked by Trump.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-01 6:18 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Powerful, wealthy people commit crimes all the time. And I would point to Trump and Rudy as being "vicious, unprincipled and scorched earth" instead.



That's because you're a Media Matters-level far-left liberal partisan, who grazes daily on the lying leftist-media propaganda that is fed to you, because despite the facts otherwise, you desperately want to believe that Trump and Republicans are evil.
When it is in truth your side (Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Valerie Jarrett, Anita Dunn, Ron Bloom, Mark Lloyd, Cass Sunstein, Strobe Talbott, Bernie Sanders...) that openly worships truly evil Bolshevik radicals like Mao Tse Tung, Che Gueverra, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chaves, Saul Alinsky, William Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis, and has repeatedly criminally acted on that Bolshevik ideology to circumnavigate Constitutional freedoms and checks and balances and free elections, to seize power by liberal-fascist undemocratic means.

The truth is, with the microscope Donald Trump has been under for 3 years, it's astonishing that the Democrat/Left hasn't been able to manufacture even a false case against him. The fact that obessive investigation of Trump has NOT revealed any crimes or scandals despite the best and most vindictive efforts, reveals Trump to be more clean than you would like to believe. That If you or I were subjected to the same scrutiny, they would have found some technicality or perjury trap to imprison us and destroy us a long time ago.

On Wednesday (Nov 27th) on Lou Dobbs, K.T. McFarland (who also served as an assistant defense secretary under the Reagan and G.H.W. Bush administrations, and briefly served in the early weeks of Trump's presidency for Flynn), discussed how she was approached by two FBI agents in a very similar way that Michael Flynn was destroyed.
"Oh, you don't need a lawyer..." the FBI agents said.
"Oh, you don't need access to Defense Department files to refresh your memory, we just have a few simple questions for you..."

PERJURY TRAP questions.

Lucky for her, she went out and got the very best lawyer she could before answering, to avoid being similarly entrapped, deceived, smeared and criminally charged, just as Flynn was. As she put it, if she hadn't gotten that lawyer and protected herself from manufactured charges, she would "be wearing an orange jump suit now."

Just as Flynn is.

There is absolutely no reason Flynn should be in jail now, was tricked into a perjury trap by the FBI, tricked into not consulting a lawyer, he was shaken down and bankrupted, forced to mortgage his house to pay for his legal defense, and then the FBI threatened to indict and imprison his son as well, if he didn't finally take the plea.

And his new attorney Sydney Powell is well on her way to having that plea thrown out and freeing Flynn. I would like to see Comey, McCabe, Weissmann, and Strzok subjected to the same treatment for their abuse of the system, imprisoning an innocent man, many innocent men, just to get a political victory and hurt Trump. That whole corrupt self-serving top floor of the FBI belongs in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

And those FBI abuses go back to at least the Enron, Arthur Andersen, Martha Stewart, Scooter Libby and IRS/Lois Lerner cases. Let the punishment fit the crime. For imprisoning people these FBI officials knew to be innocent, hiding exculpatory evidence, shaking down the innocent (Republicans) and deliberately sabotaging the cases and setting free the guilty (Lois Lerner, Hillary Clinton), these bastards belong in jail. Jail for crimes they actually committed, vs. imprisoning people they knew to be innocent just to get a conviction. That would still not even be letting the punishment fit the crime. Far more merciful that what they unleashed on the executives of Arthur Andersen and Enron, some of whom, innocent men, they caused to die in prison for crimes they didn't commit. Convictions overturned unanimously 9-0 by the U.S. Supreme Court.


 Originally Posted By: M E M

After all who is preaching that one side hates America? Who is fighting like hell to stop any investigation into their actions into Ukraine? Documents and testimony that you would think an innocent party would want released is being blocked by Trump.


Your side is accusing Trump and Republicans of "hate", ironically as the Democrats themselves stoke hate at Trump and his supporters.

And I've cited at length the evidence that Democrats are more loyal to globalism than the United States, and that Democrats undermine securing our borders, undermine stopping illegal immigration, undermine national security.
And Democrats are the party of attacking our nation's founders, our history, calling America racist and inherently unfair (Bernie Sanders, Michelle Obama, Stacy Abrams, Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to name just a few examples).
And Democrats are the party that tried to de-fund our troops on the battlefield in Iraq in 2006 to force W. Bush to bring them home.
The party of John Kerry, who threw his Vietnam medals (or someone else's it turned out, for pure anti-American show) who falsely called Vietnam war veterans rapists and war criminals.
The party of Senator Dick Durbin (D-MI) calling U.S. soldiers in Iraq "comparable to Nazi storm troopers, Soviet Gulags and the Pol Pot regime."
The party that hates police.
The party that frees cop-killers.
The Party of Senator Ted Kennedy, who met with the Russians in 1987 and tried to convince them not to make a nuclear arms reduction agreement with Reagan.
The party that was warned about the threat of communist infiltrators in the 1940's, who ignored that advice, and allowed the Russians to infiltrate our government and steal the technology to make a nuclear bomb.

You tell me, M E M: Which party hates America based on that overwhelming evidence?

Trump is cooperating with investigators and hiding less behind executive privelege than either Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton before him. Where Trump is exercising executive privelege, he is protecting the office of the presidency itself, so as not to set a precedent that will cripple future presidents.

You hold an incredible double-standard, M E M. There is no crime that Trump is indicted for, or even specifically charged with (as compared to the Nixon and Clinton impeachments, who special investigations showed both guilty of actual crimes, Mueller's report on Trump did not).
The Democrats are indulging in a Stalinist-like trial, where the Democrat-contrived rules don't even allow Trump to properly defend himself. It's all a show for the Democrat base, to smear Trump.
But while the Democrat and Republican bases haven't moved politically, the independents polled have gone from 48% in support of impeachment to 34%, a double digit majority now [b]opposing[/i] impeachment. It's over, and moderate Democrats are looking for an exit ramp.
I doubt at this point that Pelosi will even hold a House vote for impeachment. The blatant unfairness of these hearings has blown up in the Dems' faces, and I think, assured Trump's re-election.

But Trump's inevitable re-election was always in place, this was just the Dems' desperate attempt to do a hail-Mary to block it, to smear Trump and lower his numbers just enough to prevent his re-election. It failed, and it backfired. And Democrats will now even more assuredly lose, as they richly deserve to.

Democrats have played their last vicious and desperate hand. To the division and detriment of the nation. I have never been so enraged by the overt deceit, malice, and politics of personal destruction of the Democrats. From Brett Kavanaugh to Nicholas Sandmann, to this. I wouldn't risk going to jail to do it, but these malicious Democrats, stoking division just for their short-term gain, destroying the country and the rule of law, deserve a death like Hitler or Mussolini or Benedict Arnold. Killed in the streets. I would be delighted to turn on Fox or CNN and see that someone else had made them die screaming. What the Democrats have done is so vile, so divisive, so treasonous, that is the punishment they truly deserve.

But I'll settle for them being voted out of office, and ceasing to have any majorities. That will be sufficient.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-01 8:23 AM
All that hatred whipped up for Trump is so sad. I hope at some point you look at what he's done to this country and stop worshipping him. Trump could be providing the documents and testimony that would be his defense WB. Instead he's trying to block it. You would never tolerate that from a democrat. And instead of thoughtful responses you rant out your hatred for your fellow Americans. I didn't withhold foreign aid to try to shakedown a country that is fighting our enemy. Nor did I use a charity so fraudulently that I had to pay huge fines. Those are things corrupt bad people do. Open your eyes, I'm not your enemy
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-01 4:07 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
All that hatred whipped up for Trump is so sad. I hope at some point you look at what he's done to this country and stop worshipping him. Trump could be providing the documents and testimony that would be his defense WB. Instead he's trying to block it. You would never tolerate that from a democrat. And instead of thoughtful responses you rant out your hatred for your fellow Americans. I didn't withhold foreign aid to try to shakedown a country that is fighting our enemy. Nor did I use a charity so fraudulently that I had to pay huge fines. Those are things corrupt bad people do. Open your eyes, I'm not your enemy



You're delusional. Trump has overseen the best economy in over 50 years. The lowest unemployment ever recorded for blacks, hispanics, women, and people under 30.
Trump has negotiated trade deals with Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Japan and Central America.
Trump has overseen record gains in the stock market.
Trump, for someone allegedly stoking "hate", has a record level of support among black voters, up from 8% on election day 2016 to, by one poll last week, 34%.

As I've linked multiple times, the Heritage Foundation cited that Trump in his first year alone enacted 64% of his campaign agenda, a higher ratio of kept promises than any president in possibly all of U.S. history (next closest, Ronald Reagan at 53%).

Trump has reformed prisons and allowed many guilty of minor crimes to leave jail early and have a second chance. And with the demand for labor and increased business so high, these paroled inmates have far more opportunies for jobs and better futures.

So... the "hate" you cite is all from your side, desperately trying to destroy Trump, slandering him at every opportunity baselessly, despite all that he's done that is right. Democrat leadership slanders Trump as a racist to try and divide the country for their own political gain, stoking violence against Trump and his supporters.
Your side wants to create an economic collapse and create a self-fulfilling prophecy of economic downturn, hurting millions of Americans, just to damage Trump.

Your side wants to impeach Trump, based on no evidence, despite FOUR investigations that have cleared him, an impeachment attempt polarizing and damaging the country for Democrats' own political gain, just to prevent Trump's re-election. Which current polls already indicate is seen by a majority of voters as a malicious deception, that has already failed.

If any of the current 2020 Democrat candidates ever managed to win, they would enact policies that would bring about national suicide: open borders, green new deal, open borders, government insurance for illegals, federal bailout of student debt, free tuition. At the debates, every candidate raised their hands in support of these things, not one sane alternative candidate in the bunch.
Because of the slander, intimidation and violence your party has enacted over the last 11 years, and especially the last 4 years, I no longer see the Democrats at the leadership level as a group of people I respectfully disagree with. I see them for what they are, as the party of hate, the Bolshevik party, a cancer that has to be removed.

Even in the cases of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, Democrats merely pretended to be moderates who cared about the needs of middle class Americans, but in both cases campaigned on deliberate deception, a Trojan Horse for radicalism.
And Barack Obama is basically giving advice now to the 2020 Democrat field to hide their true intentions, so they can win an election and then implement their deceitful agenda. Your party is evil to the core, and they are a danger to all of us.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-01 5:00 PM
WB when you post stuff like this..."Democrats have played their last vicious and desperate hand. To the division and detriment of the nation. I have never been so enraged by the overt deceit, malice, and politics of personal destruction of the Democrats. From Brett Kavanaugh to Nicholas Sandmann, to this. I wouldn't risk going to jail to do it, but these malicious Democrats, stoking division just for their short-term gain, destroying the country and the rule of law, deserve a death like Hitler or Mussolini or Benedict Arnold. Killed in the streets. I would be delighted to turn on Fox or CNN and see that someone else had made them die screaming. What the Democrats have done is so vile, so divisive, so treasonous, that is the punishment they truly deserve.
..."
and than go on about an entire political party having all the hate just simply isn't credible. Nor is Trump cooperating with the impeachment inquiry. The documents and testimony that I think we both know wouldn't clear him but further damn him he's illegally withholding. Trump is earning his impeachment.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-01 5:04 PM
Impeaching Trump btw is a lot more popular by the public than Clinton's or even Nixon's up till when he resigned.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-02 2:38 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Impeaching Trump btw is a lot more popular by the public than Clinton's or even Nixon's up till when he resigned.



As I said, independents have dropped in support of impeachment from 48% to 34% in just one week.

The only ones who poll over 80% in support of impeachment are partisan Democrats, who rather than being persuaded by evidence, simply leap at any contrivance that would allow Democrats to attack Trump.

AGAIN: There is no evidence to warrant an impeachment. The only reason the polls ever had that high a level of support for impeachment is because of biased public hearingss that didn't allow Republicans to call witnesses, for Republicans to even be able to cross-examine Democrat witnesses, or for Republicans to present exculpatory evidence. And even of what was permitted to appear in hearings, it was behind closed doors, and Democrats unetically leaked to the press ONLY the portions that supported their lying narrative.

Since Democrats' lying narrative has been exposed, support for impeachment has been in continuous decline.

Democrats are a party whose very existence is dependent on selective omission of the facts and complete deception. When people see brief glimpses of what the Demcorats are really about (hating cops, hating America, protraying our soldiers as thugs and Nazis, amnesty for illegals, freeing rapists when they could just turn them over to ICE, HEALTH CARE for illegals, on and on) Democrat voter support drops like a stone.

It's only by race demagoguery and other hate and fear tactics that Democrats turn public support away from Republicans. (That and RINOs like Mitt Romney and Marco Rubio, who campaign as conservatives, and then don't follow through on what they promised to get elected. The Republicans who don't support Trump's agenda are the ones who generally lose. Because Trump is doing what was promised to voters, whereas the RINO's are not.)
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-02 3:12 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
WB when you post stuff like this..."Democrats have played their last vicious and desperate hand. To the division and detriment of the nation. I have never been so enraged by the overt deceit, malice, and politics of personal destruction of the Democrats. From Brett Kavanaugh to Nicholas Sandmann, to this. I wouldn't risk going to jail to do it, but these malicious Democrats, stoking division just for their short-term gain, destroying the country and the rule of law, deserve a death like Hitler or Mussolini or Benedict Arnold. Killed in the streets. I would be delighted to turn on Fox or CNN and see that someone else had made them die screaming. What the Democrats have done is so vile, so divisive, so treasonous, that is the punishment they truly deserve.
..."
and than go on about an entire political party having all the hate just simply isn't credible. Nor is Trump cooperating with the impeachment inquiry. The documents and testimony that I think we both know wouldn't clear him but further damn him he's illegally withholding. Trump is earning his impeachment.



I stand by what I said. My words are not hate, they are a reaction to OVER A DECADE of unrelenting hate by Democrats.

Again, Trump is hiding less behind executive privelege than either Nixon or Bill Clinton. But there are some things that he has to withold, to protect the confidentiality of the inner workings of the White House. Otherwise he would show his hand and lose the ability to wage high-stakes negotiations with other countries.

Show me another president who unclassified personal communications like the Trump/Zelensky July 25th phone call. No president EVER!

And a second earlier phone call released in full after that. You and other maniacs on the Left read evil intent into everything Trump says or does, and absolutely refuse to give him credit for anything, despite that he is quantifiably the most effective president in over 50 years on a wide span of issues.

What did Obama do in 8 years? Virtually nothing. Obamacare, that's it. And even with that, the Democrats had to cheat to get it passed. And even with that, a majority of Democrats who voted for it have been removed from office. And Republicans gained over 1,000 seats in federal and state elections since then.
On top of that, Obama is the king of racial demagoguery, and across the board in poll after poll, his 8 years are seen as the time when racial division escalated in the U.S.
Obama was elected as a racial healer, the "post-racial" president, who instead threw acid on the wounds, and ripped this country open along race and class lines.

Obama failed on every front, whereas Trump is succeeding, the most effective president in over 50 years. So the Democrats rely on hate and smear tactics to try and hide his success. But despite over 3 years of 93% negative coverage (according to Media Research Center, that reached 96% anti-Trump liberal propaganda during the impeachment hearings) Trump is still polling with greater support than Obama. Under Obama, the news media were the wind at Obama's back. Under Trump, the media are enemy agents trying to destroy Trump at every turn with whatever made up "unnamed source" or unconfirmed half-baked rumor thay can summon, no matter how many times it blows up in their faces, no matter how many times they destroy their own credibility by doing so.

So... if I'm angry and I would like to see the Democrats see retribution, it is a reaction to the unrelenting hate and pure evil of the Democrats. They are a threat to the country, and certainly, to their Republican opposition. It is not "hate" to react to a Democrat threat, and want to see it eliminated.

https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018...ump-supporters/

And that's not even a current or complete list. When Republicans can't even speak at colleges or booksignings without being silenced or openly attacked, when Democrat leadership in cities like Portland Berkeley or L.A. or Washington D.C. makes police just stand in the sidelines and not give protection to Republicans when they are violently attacked, when high school kids are attacked just for wearing a MAGA hat in multiple cities nationwide, when it's a career-ender just to identify as a conservative as a college professor, a teacher, a news reporter, and actor, a Hollywood tv or film writer or director, it is not "hate" to vocally respond to that. It is a reaction to unrelenting Democrat hate and intolerance, and Democrat intimdation and violence. FACT.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-02 3:17 AM




5 REASONS BARACK OBAMA WILL BE REMEMBERED AS ONE OF THE WORST PRESIDENTS
http://www.rkmbs.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1222543#Post1222543
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-02 6:27 AM
Off topic but if it helps I do believe history shifts out the garbage who try to build their greatness by trying to tear down others. Trump will likely be impeached on the facts. More will come out to further damn him. He won't be able to block all that evidence forever and we know enough already.

In other news not surprisingly Trump passes on having lawyers at the inquiry to participate.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-04 11:23 AM


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Off topic but if it helps I do believe history shifts out the garbage who try to build their greatness by trying to tear down others. Trump will likely be impeached on the facts. More will come out to further damn him. He won't be able to block all that evidence forever and we know enough already.

In other news not surprisingly Trump passes on having lawyers at the inquiry to participate.



If simply citing the facts is "tearing down others".

As opposed to the daily salvo of insults and hysterical Nixon/Watergate comparisons on MSNBC and CNN and NBC.
Or their calling Trump or anyone who supports him "a child".
Or saying that reports written by Trump or Republican House members "must have been written in crayon".

Those are all pure insults, without the slightest citing or sourcing of facts. Lying narrative, the Democrat specialty.

And regarding Trump not having lawyers at the event, it's because House Democrats have not set up anything resembling fairness or equal protection under the law, or impartial due process, in their partisan show trial.
As I've cited repeatedly, in both the Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton impeachment proceedings, the opposition party in both previous impeachment cases bent over backward to make sure the impeachment process was beyond question impartial, open and fair. And that the impartialness, and bipartisan consensus of the process, was highly visible to the American public.
As were the Special investigation reports in the Nixon and Clinton cases, that showed clear criminal action on which to pursue impeachment.
The Mueller report DID NOT, showed no crime by Trump to justify an impeachment process. The Stalinist standard, begin with the Democrat desire for impeachment, and manufacture a crime to rationalize it.

In the Trump case, Democrats have been highly partisan, have never made any effort to be non-partisan, and have unashamedly made that partisan bias visible beyond question.
The Republican House members and the president's attorneys were NOT able to call witnesses, NOT able to cross-examine, NOT able to present exculpatory evidence, in anything even slightly resembling fair and impartial process. It is precisely that unfairness that has made Trump's White House and attorneys uncooperative.

On the plus side, it has galvanized Republicans, and made Trump's re-election even more assured. The more Democrats pursue this, the more it hurts them politically.
As I said, this deeply angers me, as it clearly angers tens of millions of other Republicans and Independents. I truly want their blood for what they've maliciously done to the country. But I'll settle for their crushing defeat and heavy losses in both houses of congress in November 2020.

Nothing could convince me more of the deep anti-Americanism of the Democrats, of their deceitfulness, of their viciousness, of their eagerness to overthrow our Constitution in pursuit of mob rule. And of their Bolshevik lust to steamroll over and destroy anyone, anything, even the country itself, that gets in their way. They are the Bolsheviks, the Maoists, Che Guevarra, Hugo Chavez, and the Jacobinists of the French Revolution all rolled into one.

And going back to the Obama administration (where admiration for this long line of communist revolutionaries and their bloody scorched-earth tactics, exulted by multiple Obama staffers) was the first tell of what was coming, the natural outgrowth of what we are seeing now:

"We agree with Mao that capitalism is a sham, and that power is mostly administered at the barrell of a gun", said Ron Bloom, one of Obama's Czars.

"Vive Le resistance!", said Peter Strzok and Lisa Page's FBI insurrectionist comrade [name redacted, at least initially]. Who participated in most of the oh-so-neutral Hillary Clinton and Trump federal investigations. ["Name Redacted"] and and Strzok, Page and like-minded insurrectionist brethren were attorneys appointed to the Mueller investigation. And their lying talking points have picked up and repeated daily by their "La Revolucion" brethren in the 93% anti-Trump liberal-Newspeak media. Also supported in FBI, in NSC, in DOJ, in State Department, in IRS.

"Viva La revolucion!" We are seeing that America-hating revolution on display every day. I expect to be disappointed by DOJ inspector general Michael Horowitz's report. But I hope with "la revolucion"'s decline already, that John Durham's report is a death blow to the Democrat/Marxist revolution and their allies in the Deep State, that have already had a huge loss of public support in recent weeks.

And really, steadily been exposed and weakened over the last 3 years.



And by the way...

REP. ADAM SCHIFF HIRED AN NSC "WINGMAN" COLLEAGUE OF WHISTLEBLOWER ERIC CIARAMELLA THE DAY AFTER TRUMP/ZELENSKY PHONE CALL

... more evidence of the deceit at the conspiratorial core of the Democrats' lying impeachment case.




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-04 12:36 PM


Also, the [redacted-name] "Viva la resistance!" FBI lawyer from 18 months ago (now known to be Kevin Clinesmith) is back in the news. Intitially portrayed as a low-level FBI lawyer, he was the FBI lawyer who handled FISA requests to judges, and apparently falsified documents for the FISA warrants used to request a FISA judge's surveillance of Carter Page, and through surveillance on him, surveillance of the entire Trump campaign, Trump transition team, and inaugurated Trump administration. Clinesmith apparently witheld exculpatory evidence that would have proven Carter Page's innocence of Russia collusion, that by excluding allowed the currupt FBI to get FISA surveillance approval to spy on the Trump campaign.

FOUR separate FISA warrants, over a six-month period.
Falsifying evidence to a federal FISA judge is a federal crime, punishable by years in prison.

FISA alterations Could Pose Significant Trouble For FBI: Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree


Oh, I'm sure Kevin Clinesmith was doing this all on his own, and it wasn't part of a wider conspiracy with other FBI agents and lawyers he was bemoaning Hillary's Nov 2016 election loss to and saying "Viva la resistence" to.

It's just the merest coincidence that Strzok and Page were texting along similar lines:
LISA PAGE: "He isn't going to become president, right? RIGHT?!?
PETER STRZOK: No. No, he won't. We will stop it."



Nope, nothing to see here, move along.





FBI Lawyer Kevin Clinesmith’s Alterations May Have Been More Pivotal Than the Media Admits

And how the Deep State and collaboratve media are trying to re-package their lying narrative to get ahead of the Dec 9th I G report by Michael Horowitz, to excuse the inexcusable.
But clearly, their motive revealed in texts was getting Trump, not protecting the country from the Russians: "Viva la resistance!"


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-05 2:53 PM


The four witnesses yesterday (Wednesday, Dec 4th):

Johnathan Turley, George Washington University Law professor
Michael Gerhardt, USC law professor
Pamela S. Karlan, Stanford Law School (and for my money the craziest of the bunch)
Noah Feldman, Harvard Law School professor (a close second)

Four university academics, purportedly Constitutional law experts, only Turley am I familiar with, only Turley living up to that scholarly billing and presenting his arguments with detached objectivity. The other three were visibly unhinged from the outset, and couldn't restrain spitting contempt and insults at the president at every opportunity.
And as was revealed by House Republicans, all three of the liberals on the panel have vocally expressed their contempt for president Trump since 2016, have written editorials blasting Trump and calling for his impeachment, long before there was ever a July 25th phone call with Ukrainian president Zelensky to rationalize impeachment.

Rabid liberal partisans, exposed as heavy Democrat campaign donors for years, and particularly high donations to Hillary in 2016. Who have participated in anti-Trump activism, who have written newspaper editorials calling for Trump to be impeached since 2017, who have ranted their anti-Trump/antti-conservative lunacy in videotaped appearances and programs, who in hearings today spit venom at Trump and his family, at Trump's son Baron, and who just couldn't restrain themselves for even a day to try and make some pretense of detached scholarly objectivity.

Far from detached objectivity where these three liberal scholars ever attempted to weigh the legal precedent for pursuing impeachment of Trump, their personal Democrat campaign donations, their published writings, their videotaped rhetoric at public appearances, and their bristling liberal contempt, all abundantly cited in hearings, make clear these "Constitutional legal scholars" (Turley the one exception) are rabid Democrat partisans looking for ANY pretense to impeach and remove Trump, as they clearly said in their own cited words, long before there was a Ukraine/impeachment issue.



The 5 minutes you had to see out of today's House hearings testimony:

Rep. Derek Gaetz (R-FL),




Jonathan Turley is the ONLY one before hearings who cited a universal standard for impeachment, and in his detached politeness made the Democrats on the House Committee, and the liberal activist law professors sitting next to him, all look like fools.

Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham all had a field day ripping aaprt the stupidity of Democrats on display, with a lot of playfulness and humor. No need to be mean, it was right there for all to see, easy pickings. For all the seriousness of the issue, it was very fun to watch, more like Greg Gutfeld's program.

I think Jonathan Turley's opening statement, and later responses to questions, are a persuasive indictment of the Democrat rush to impeachment.
As Newt Gingrich suggested, Republicans should bomb the airwaves with commercials made from clips of it, and that alone might stop impeachment in its tracks. Impeachment is already on its knees and painfully crawling, two weeks of commercials might be the death blow to this ill-conceived impeachment push.

Jonathan Turley, impeachment hearings, opening statement
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-05 6:30 PM
Newt's a partisan shill. A turd that keeps floating up after many flushes.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-06 2:26 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Newt's a partisan shill. A turd that keeps floating up after many flushes.



Your insults are not facts, and manifest YOUR pettiness, not his.

Gingrich is a powerful strategist, who orchestrated a Republican revolution in 1994 that gave the Republicans control of both houses of Congress for the first time in 50 years. And Gingrich's promised, and effective, legislation was all passed into law, even if much of it was obstructed and vetoed by Bill Clinton.

As opposed to the Cultural Marxist Bolsheviks who run the Democrat party, and consistently lie, even to their own base. Democrats' priority is their own power. Hillary Clinton exemplifies the Democrats, secretly in Brazil saying to her globalist donors: "It's important to have a public policy and a private policy." In other words lie to the voters, say one thing to get elected, and then pursue a different secret agenda when elected.

Which is actually the exact same strategy Barack Obama is giving to the 2020 Democrat candidates now: Don't be honest, lie to voters now, and pursue your real agenda once elected.


A party built completely on lies, deception, vicious slander of their opponents, or even their Democrat competitors. The party of slander, intimidation and violence. A party exemplified by their treatment of Brett Kavanaugh, Nicholas Sandman and the students of Covington Catholic high school. And the party of the current Stalinist abuse of power directed at Trump in impeachment hearings. And for that matter, your party's eating of their own in the cases of Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, and anyone else who in the way of the Democrat-Bolshevik party line.
The party that hates America, that undermines our military, that endorses attacking our founders, tearing down their statues and holidays, of delegitimizing our national history.
The party that hates cops.
The party of open borders, of staging armed raids and other attacks on ICE and Border Patrol, while shouting the verbatim rhetoric of Democrat House members as they unleash bullets and firebombs on ICE offices.

Based on those examples, who are the real "turds"?

Yours is literally the party that is destroying the United States from within, and enabling the Chinese, Russians, North Koreans, Iranians and islamic terrorists, and enabling anyone else who would like to destroy us. Literally, these countries would have negotiated with Trump and conceded by now, but now with the impeachment deception, they now see Trump as weak, even though Trump will remain in office, and all are all hoping a Democrat candidate can defeat Trump, so they can go back to business as usual, the business of destroying America.

Biden's deals with China and Ukraine, for example, that gave his son Hunter Biden a $1.5 billion Chinese bank investment deal, marks the point where Biden went soft in his China rhetoric and commanded U.S. naval ships to stop patrolling parts of the South China Sea.

The Clinton Foundation enriching the Clintons, selling potential presidential influence and State Department access, in exchange for hundreds of millions from rogue governments, is another example of the Democrats at the highest level being corrupt to the core.

And there are certainly plently more examples. Because corruption is not something that occasionally happens in the Democrat party, it is the essence and lifeblood of what your party is all about.

"Turds" doesn't half cover it.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-06 2:41 AM
Partisans like yourself can polish turds like Newt all you want. They still stink but if you want to waste the time be my guest.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-06 2:49 AM
And I'll point out that while Trump has been found to be using his charity fraudulently, you make accusations based on less at democrats. You can't polish turds WB, you just end up stinking yourself up.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-06 6:23 PM
"
Jonathan Turley is the ONLY one before hearings who cited a universal standard for impeachment, and in his detached politeness made the Democrats on the House Committee, and the liberal activist law professors sitting next to him, all look like fools.
"
He felt differently during the Clinton impeachment so no need to try to trick me WB on him being a nonpartisan.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-06 11:15 PM
 Originally Posted By: WB

Jonathan Turley is the ONLY one before hearings who cited a universal standard for impeachment, and in his detached politeness made the Democrats on the House Committee, and the liberal activist law professors sitting next to him, all look like fools.

 Originally Posted By: M E M

He felt differently during the Clinton impeachment so no need to try to trick me WB on him being a nonpartisan.


Jonathan Turley has been the go-to legal scholar for CNN for 15 or 20 years. Democrats **loved** Turley when he was giving a similar polite condemnation of the Bush administration over things like the Patriot Act, or waterboarding prisoners, or Abu Ghraib, or the legal basis for invading Iraq.

But now that Turley goes against liberal orthodoxy, the Democrat/Left is doing their damnedest to destroy him.

Likewise Alan Dershowitz, who condemned the Bill Clinton impeachment, and now holds the same standard, that while President Trump has done things that are questionable, they don't rise to the level of impeachment. Because of their consistent standards, they now aren't invited to the same cocktail parties, and in Turley's case, there is a flood of [liberal/Democrat] phone calls to his university demanding he be fired.

For Bolshevik Democrats, those who don't conform to their liberal orthodoxy, even their fellow liberals who dissent ever so slightly and exhibit any deviation from the liberal talking points, HAVE to be destroyed. Not merely disagreed with in a public debate, DESTROYED!

If you bothered to watch the linked opening statement above by Turley, he voted for Hillary Clinton, but still objects to the rush to judgement by Democrats, and the Democrats' lack of impartial due process, as compared to the truly bipartisan and impartial impeachment proceedings against both Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-06 11:41 PM




Crazy: Jonathan Turley Is Inundated With Threats After Testifying for Republicans on Impeachment


and



Email Sent to George Washington U. Law Deans Calls for Jonathan Turley’s Removal


Your Democrat Bolshevik party at work. So much for free thought and an open dialogue. Anyone who doesn't voice the party line has to be destroyed.

Ironic, that these personal threats and calls for firing are directed at a highly respected Constitutional lawyer and his university that teach Constitutional law. Something the Democrat/Left wants neither taught or preserved. Viva la revolucion!
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-07 1:37 AM
Yeah on that WB nobody should be threatened like that. It happens on both sides but it doesn't make it okay. However I would criticize Turley for having very different views when it was a democrat being impeached. Than he argued that a President didn't even need to commit a crime to warrant impeachment.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-09 10:08 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Yeah on that WB nobody should be threatened like that. It happens on both sides but it doesn't make it okay. However I would criticize Turley for having very different views when it was a democrat being impeached. Than he argued that a President didn't even need to commit a crime to warrant impeachment.



I'm glad we can agree that both sides should not unleash or threaten violence just because someone (like Turley) expresses an opinion we don't like.
But all too often, Democrat leaders themselves (Maxine Waters, Corey Booker, Kamala Harris, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, Joseph Biden... ) are the ones who are leading the way and calling for violence and intimidation against their Republkican opposition by grassroots Democrats.

There has been criticism of Jonathan Turley for haaving different views of the Bill Clinton impeachment, yes, as contrasted with the Democratpush to impeach Trump:
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/473227-the-shifting-impeachment-positions-of-jonathan-turley

But while Turley has said (in 1998) that a president doesn't have to commit actual crimes to warrant impeachment, I don't see that as being contradicted or flip-flopped in his views in the Trump case. I don't see that Turley said that Trump should not be impeached for things that don't amount to actual crimes. What Turley was openly critical of is:
1) the Democrat rush to judgement, as opposed to gradually building a case, as was done in the Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton impeachment proceedings,
and
2) That the process against Trump is clearly partisan, and that Democrats have never tried to build a bipartisan impeachment process, never tried to establish rules that are undisputedly fair to both sides, as was the standard in the previous Nixon and Clinton impeachments.

The above editorial by prosecutor James D. Zirin bypasses the obvious to make his partisan point, that Trump is not cooperating because for Trump and his lawyers to cooperate at this stage would be to endorse a one-sided process that is obscenely unfair. If process rules were the same unanimously fair and bipartisan process as under the Nixon and Clinton impeachments, I'm sure Trump would fully cooperate. Until that fair process is established, Trump's non-cooperation is the only leverage he has to change the current rules to something truly fair.

Looking at Jonathan Turley's opinions on a wide range of issues in his Wikipedia listing, it seems to me that he is a majority of the time on the side of liberal Democrats, and in less partisan terms, against leaders of either party who overstep and intrude on Constitutional rights and freedoms.

Here's Turley's own opinion defending his views, in contrast to Zinn's linked views above.
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/47...ump-impeachment

Turley explains, against the above allegations by Zirin and other pundits, that Turley in his views is very consistent in the standard he presents, in both the Clinton and Trump cases. I was going to click and drag quote them, but that is what the link is for, to read in the full context of Turley's own argument.

Both sides [editorials by both Zirin and Turley] published in The Hill, which is how every news publication should be. As opposed to CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post, Politico and others, who only inadvertantly publish anything critical of or politically disadvantageous to the Democrats, and are deeply invested in advancing the Democrat political side. The unity of the liberal message convinces me that all these publications conference call daily with Democrat political leaders and/or Media Matters, because the talking points and buzz words across every libera-media channel and print source are so glaringly the same as those of the Democrat Washington leadership.

It's Orwellian.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-09 10:20 AM




Just out of curiosity, M E M, you say "It happens on both sides but it doesn't make it okay."


Who do you see on the Republican side who is unleashing death threats or violence on Democrats (either elected leaders, or simply regular folks expressing public political opinion) for their free speech?

Because I don't see anything comparable to what happened to Turley, or to Sarah Huckabee-Sanders, Pam Bondi, Kirstjen Nielsen, Nicholas Sandmann and his entire Covington High School class, Ann Coulter, Karl Rove, Ben Shapiro, Condolleezza Rice, and hundreds of other Trump supporters nationwide, for doing things as minor as wearing a Trump MAGA hat.


I don't even see equivalent acts of hate, violence and intimidation against Democrats for their stated views, or examples of suppressed free speech and public speaking appearances silenced approaching a parity 1 in 1,000, in 10,000, or even 100,000, with that unleashed against Republicans.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-09 10:01 PM
There's a tweet from the whistleblower's attorney to Turley saying he would gladly trade the death threats he's getting for the threats Turley is getting. Trump himself made a veiled threat to the whistleblower calling him a traitor and pointing out what used to be done to traitors. I don't see an equivalence either WB and while I'm mad at our corrupt President I certainly don't fancy visions of republicans being violently taken down because they're willing to protect the corruption like you recently posted about democrats.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-10 2:37 AM
As to your complaint about this not being a bipartisan impeachment, that would be nice but i really don't see any chance of that happening with republicans. Lindsey Graham originally said it would be deeply troubling if the President engaged in a quidproquo. When Sondland testified under oath that there was one Graham stated he stopped reading the transcripts. The one republican that was for impeachment was attacked for breaking ranks and is no longer a republican. Even if it somehow costs the democrats votes I think it's important to make Trump's attempts to withhold foreign aid for an investigation of his political rival an impeachable offense.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-10 9:12 PM


Yesterday (Dec 9, 2019, Monday) was the day DOJ inspector general Michael Horowitz *finally* released his report on the abuses of FBI and DOJ officials, of top FBI and DOJ officials back-dooring in the Steele "Russia Dossier" despite its being discredited, of FBI and DOJ officials falsifying their evidence to submit unethical and illegal FISA surveillance requests, to deceitfully abuse the system, to illegally FISA-spy on Carter Page, George Papadapoulos, Michael Flynn, and Paul Manafort.

Horowitz laughably tried to minimize the obvious anti-Trump partisan conspiracy, and allege in his I G report that these MULTIPLE falsified FISA warrant requests were just the result of carelessness and lack of following procedure, nothing more.

William Barr, and the until now the silent John Durham, both immediately shot back that they disagreed with Horowitz's conclusions, and it's clear Barr and Durham have been familiar with the detaails of Horowitz's report for about 2 months before its release. I've expected for about a month that Horowitz would softpedal on the true facts. His job as I G is to mildly chasten DOJ/FBI with minor revelations, while mostly flying cover for and minimizing DOJ/FBI exposure, thus preserving the corruption in DOJ/FBI. Trump should fire both Horowitz and Christopher Wray immediately, if not 6 months ago.

But fortunately, it is Durham and Barr that are in position to implement real change and a purge of corruption.






I G REPORT SHOWS FBI MISCONDUCT AND ABUSES IN PARTSAN PROBE OF RUSSIA COLLUSION HOAX


 Quote:


by Gregg Jarrett


It turns out that the most revealing aspect of the long-awaited Justice Department’s inspector general’s report on the origins of the Russia collusion hoax comes from Attorney General William Barr’s damning assessment of it.

In unmistakably terse language, Barr denounced “a small group of now-former FBI officials” for their “misconduct,” “malfeasance and misfeasance,” and “clear abuse of the FISA process.”


Inspector General (IG) Michael Horowitz, issued a 476-page report Monday that broadly examined: (1) how and why the FBI initiated an investigation of candidate Donald Trump and his campaign in July 2016; and (2) the decision to seek a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to surveil a Trump campaign associate.



SEAN HANNITY ON IG REPORT: 'WE WERE RIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY'



As to the first action, Barr concluded that the IG report “makes clear that the FBI launched an intrusive investigation of a U.S. presidential campaign on the thinnest of suspicions that, in my view, were insufficient to justify the steps taken.”

In plain terms, Barr is convinced that the FBI was wrong to investigate Trump and his campaign, because the evidence was conspicuously deficient. Barr noted that the FBI “pushed forward” with its investigation even in the face of “consistently exculpatory” evidence.



As to the second action, Barr condemned those same FBI officials who “misled the FISA court, omitted critical exculpatory facts from their filings, and suppressed or ignored information negating the reliability of their principal source.”

The FBI relied on Christopher Steele as its major source for information presented to the FISA Court. The ex-British spy had assembled his unverified “dossier” of hearsay information from supposed sources that were largely anonymous.

The FBI knew Steele was unreliable, yet the bureau vouched for him as credible. Evidence was concealed and the FISA Court was deceived.

Barr announced that current FBI Director Christopher Wray will implement a “comprehensive set of proposed reforms” to ensure that such egregious abuse never happens again. Wray agreed, telling ABC News that FBI officials “failed to follow our policies, neglected to exercise appropriate diligence, or fell short of the standard of conduct and performance that we expect of all our employees.”




The attorney general’s skeptical view of the IG report was shared by John Durham, the U.S. attorney in Connecticut specially appointed by Barr to investigate the origins of the FBI’s Trump-Russia probe.

Durham revealed that “last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened.”

Durham pointed out that the IG’s investigation was limited to the Justice Department. In contrast, Durham has greater investigative authority and has developed “information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside the U.S.” Horowitz readily acknowledged this on the very first page of his report.

Barr’s harsh criticism of the FBI stands in stark contrast to the findings offered by the inspector general.

Although Horowitz identified at least 17 significant errors of omission in the FBI’s application to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page, Horowitz opined that the warrant application was “properly predicated.”
That is impossible, given the sheer volume of mistakes –and Barr surely knows it.

Horowitz also stated: “We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the FBI’s decision.” Of course he didn’t. No one is foolish enough to confess to biased decision-making or reduce it to writing.



What’s baffling is how the IG seems to have blindly accepted the stories peddled by former FBI officials like Director James Comey, Deputy Director Andrew McCabe and General Counsel James Baker – not to mention Steele himself. Horowitz wrote that it was not his role “to second-guess discretionary judgments.” Then why did he examine them?

Nonetheless, there are some stunning revelations in the report that should trouble all Americans about how easy it is for the FBI to open an investigation of anyone and convince a FISA judge to permit court-sanctioned surveillance.

Lies and deception were the key. The FBI relied almost exclusively on Steele’s uncorroborated “dossier,” despite Comey’s public statements to the contrary. The IG found numerous instances in which the court was given “inaccurate, incomplete, or unsupported” information.

For example, the FISA Court was never told that the Hillary Clinton Campaign and the Democratic National Committee paid for Christopher Steele to put together his “dossier” – a major omission that clearly should erode the credibility of Steele’s report.

The court was also never told that Steele had lied in the past and had serious problems with his credibility and “poor judgment;” that Steele’s primary sub-source was a “boaster” known to embellish and who later cast doubt on the “dossier”; nor that Steele had a known bias against Trump and was “desperate that he not get elected.”

The sub-source was interviewed by the FBI three times in 2017, advising agents that Steele had misstated or exaggerated his information, which came from “word of mouth and hearsay” over beers. Some of the statements had been made in jest and were just “rumors and speculation,” the unidentified sub-source said.

None of this was disclosed to the FISA Court. Instead, the FBI assured the court that the sub-source was truthful, suggesting that his information was all corroborated --when the FBI knew it was not.

In addition, the court was never told that a top FBI lawyer [Kevin Clinesmith, lawyer for FBI FISA Division, who also was exposed fortexting "Viva La Resistance!" in in Trump-hating partisan text messages to Peter Strzok and Lisa Page] doctored evidence to create a false and negative impression of Carter Page that was then used for one of the FISA warrants.

The FISA Court was also never told that a Yahoo News article cited as an independent source also came from Steele. Nor was the court told that evidence was uncorroborated and the sub-source information was unverified.

Further, the FISA Court was never made aware of exculpatory evidence that Carter Page had previously helped the U.S. government [working for the CIA]; nor was the court told of multiple exculpatory statements by Carter Page gathered by an undercover informant.

These are some – but not all – of the 17 material deceptions identified in the IG report that were made by the FBI to a succession of FISA judges over the course of four warrant applications to spy on Page. The facts were manipulated to mislead the court. Even after Steele was fired by the FBI for leaking and lying about it, the bureau continued to rely on him as its source.

These are not mere “performance failures,” as the IG describes them. Collectively, they constitute a deliberate and successful effort to violate Carter Page’s civil liberties and constitutional rights. The misuse of power was knowing and purposeful.

The FBI brazenly told the FISA Court that Carter Page was a spy. The bureau knew he was not. This was rampant, unconscionable abuse of the rule of law. Despite Horowitz’s claims, the FBI invented probable cause where none existed. The true target was Donald Trump.

Horowitz also accepted without question the FBI’s explanation that the opening of its investigation of Trump on July 31, 2016, was justified because campaign adviser George Papadopoulos heard a rumor that Russians were in possession of Hillary Clinton’s emails and might use them during the campaign. Yet, it is not a crime to hear a rumor, or even to pass it along.

Under FBI regulations, a formal investigation can only be initiated if there is a reasonable basis to believe that a crime has been (or will be) committed.

Additionally, there must be specific “articulable facts” in support of that crime. Here, neither were present. This leaves a largely phony “dossier” as the only remaining evidence. Absent verification that the FBI never secured, it was no evidence at all.



This is likely the reason that both Durham and Barr have refused to accept the IG’s conclusion that the original investigation of candidate Trump and his campaign was justified. With greater investigative authority than Horowitz and the power to compel witnesses through grand jury subpoenas, they may already have developed actionable evidence of lawlessness and corruption.

There was never any credible evidence that Donald Trump was a Russian asset or that his campaign had engaged in a criminal “collusion” conspiracy with the Kremlin to steal the 2016 presidential election. This claim was a pernicious lie and the dirtiest political trick ever perpetrated.

It was, as Trump called it, a hoax and a witch hunt.

Yet, for more than two years Americans were told by Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., countless other Democrats and the mainstream media mob that it was all true. Until the report by Special Counsel Robert Mueller said it was not.


Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., will question I G Michael Horowitz at a public hearing Wednesday. After reading the IG report, Graham called the FBI’s actions a “criminal enterprise” that ran off the rails.

Senator Graham is now armed with 476 pages of proof.

____________________________


Gregg Jarrett is a Fox News legal analyst and commentator, and formerly worked as a defense attorney and adjunct law professor. He is the author of the No. 1 New York Times best-selling book The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump. His latest book is the New York Times bestseller Witch Hunt: The Story of the Greatest Mass Delusion in American Political History





I'd further add that over a year ago, I pointed out that the FISA warrants were based on false evidence presented to FISA judges, for all 4 warrants for FISA surveillance on Carter Page.

So... based on that, the FISA judges should logically be angry that they were deceived, and should throw out the warrants as invalid. And without the warrants, all FISA surveillance used in prosecutions and plea bargains would be thrown out, as fruit of the poisoned tree.

So my question is: Where are these FISA judges? Why haven't they rescinded these warrants that were obtained based on fraudulent evidence?
That is even more clear now, with I G Michael Horowitz's report yesterday.
Unless...

Unless the FISA judges are part of the conspiracy, are Hillary Clinton voters, are deep state participants, who despite the FISA warrants being invalid, they want to aid the DOJ/FBI investigators against Trump, by keeping the fraudulently obtained evidence to further put the hurt on Trump.

I think it becomes increasingly difficult to keep that FISA evidence against Trump officials, based on the clearly fraudulent way these FISA warrants were obtained. And whether or not these judges rescind these fraudulent FISA warrants, the convictions against Manafort, Flynn, Papadapoulos and others become increasingly difficult to defend, and will be overturned by other judges, if these FISA judges don't do the right thing. I see the Michael Flynn conviction already crumbling that way.

Further, remember the text messages between Lisa Page and Peter Strzok, about knowing a FISA court judge named Rudolf Contreras, and that Page suggested to Strzok that they all were attending a dinner party in a few days, that they could meet Contreras ex-parte and basically have a secret meeting inside the party.
What if all the judges were similarly connected to all these deep state bad actors?

The longer these judges remain silent, the more I'm convinced that is the case.




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-10 9:30 PM


And now today, the Democrats at about 9 AM finally crossed the threshold and announced they will pursue actual impeachment. They are committing political suicide, and have done, are doing, a lot of damage to the country in the process.



DEMOCRATS TO UNVEIL ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, FOCUSED OB "ABUSE OF POWER", AND "OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS"



I caught only a part of Rep. Nadler's statement, I heard Rep. Adam Schiff's full prepared statement. It made me want to vomit, the insincerity and blatant falsehoods he was fronting. And then they quickly fled the scene, without taking any questions from reporters. Indicating they don't really believe what they are saying, and don't want to be cross-examined on it too closely.

An hour or so later, I caught Rep Kevin McCarthy's response, which expressed the verifiable facts, that easily deconstructed the whoppers by Democrats in what they are alleging.

A month ago, Steve Bannon, interviewed by Maria Bartiromo, said that Democrats were not going to turn back, that they can't at this point do so politically, even though this is the path to Democrat suicide:
"They've come ashore, they've burned the boats, they're advancing inland, there's no turning back."

That has turned out to be prophetic.





Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-10 10:46 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
As to your complaint about this not being a bipartisan impeachment, that would be nice but i really don't see any chance of that happening with republicans. Lindsey Graham originally said it would be deeply troubling if the President engaged in a quidproquo.



I think Sen. Graham spoke in those words before knowing the true facts. Since Graham made that statement, Trump released the transcript of the complete July 25th Trump/Zelensky phone call, proving he did nothing wrong.
And after that, Zelensky has done multiple televised interviews, maaking very clear there was absolutely no [i]quid pro quo[/b], or intimidation, or blackmail, or coercion, or extortion, or whatever new term the Democrats are ffocus-group-testing this week.


 Originally Posted By: M E M
When Sondland testified under oath that there was one Graham stated he stopped reading the transcripts.


That's not accurate. Sondlan said that "In my opinion" Trump had engaged in quid pro quo. To which the Republican congressman questioning him said "And that is nothing!"
And that was right after Sondland had said that Trump had said "I want nothing, no quid pro quo, I want Zelensky to do the right thing", what Zelensky had campaigned and got elected on, a promise to investigate and eliminate corruption in Ukraine.

 Originally Posted By: M E M

The one republican that was for impeachment was attacked for breaking ranks and is no longer a republican.



Rep. Justin Amash, of Michigan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Amash

Who was a Republican and then became a Democrat. Over his 8 previous years, Amash has increasingly become a RINO, particularly since Trump's election, where he often opposes Trump exccutive orders and legislation. He lists now as "Independent", but caucuses with Democrats, and therefore is a de facto Democrat.

I think like Marco Rubio, he fronted as a Republican, even as a Freedom Caucus/Tea Party conservative, but like Rubio, has increasingly betrayed that base, and after his initial election has morphed into a RINO. At best, a never-Trumper. He supported Rand Paul in 2016, and then endorsed Ted Cruz. I don't see where he has ever supported Trump.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
Even if it somehow costs the democrats votes I think it's important to make Trump's attempts to withhold foreign aid for an investigation of his political rival an impeachable offense.


That would be more persuasive and admirable, if you ever held the Democrats to the same standard.

First, there is no solid proof that Trump did anything wrong. The "quid pro quo" allegation is so nonspecific and nebulous as to mean nothing, no specific charge, just a half-baked rationalization to impeach Trump.
EVERYONE accusing Trump, from the state department staff at the Ukraine embassy, to the NSC, to Vindman, to Yovanovich, to the whistleblower/Eric Ciaramella, have all proven to be deeply committed Obama/Hillary idealogues. If Ciaramella went public, he would quickly destroy his own credibility as "the whistleblower", with his deep and vocal loyalties to Obama and Hillary, and his vocal opposition to all things Trump. Only by staying in the shadows and not fully revealed does the "whistleblower" complaint retain any public credibility. It is a campaign based completely on deception. As is the consistent Democrat way, whether the issue is impeachment, border security, illegal immigration, Obamacare, global warming, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, George Zimmerman, Benghazi, on and on. The first kneejerk impulse of the Democrat party is always deceiving the voters with an incendiary false narrative.

Second, what Democrats falsely allege Trump guilty of, is 1,000 times more evident and obvious guilt in the cases of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton in their positions as public officials, but somehow you, and more broadly the Demcorat base, never think that evidence warrants investigation of them. Gregg Jarrett details the multiple specific federal laws they could be prosecuted for in his Russia Hoax book.

It is infuriating and obscene that your side wants to destroy Trump and those who served in his campaign and White House (or even those who simply support him), based on no evidence.
Brett Kavanaugh.
Nicholas Sandmann, and the Covington Catholic High School class.
Paul Manafort.
Michael Flynn.
George Papadapoulos.
Carter Page.
Roger Stone.
Jerome Cosi.
Michael Caputo.

And yet turns a blind eye to actual crimes, often crimes far worse than what your side alleges about Republicans, in the cases of Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Rep. Gerry Studds, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid...
And especially the crimes of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and their inner circles.

The double standard where you want to convict people like Trump or Brett Kavanaugh when there is no evidence, but refuse to even look at mountains of evidence for the guilt of Democrats, is just unbelievable.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-11 4:37 AM
The IG report is obviously a problem for Trump. While it found mistakes it also directly undercuts Trump's conspiracy theory. And I feel very badly for Horowitz because he will pay for presenting a report that contradicts Trump. Whatever Barr presents will have to be rock solid. That means if sources are from former Ukrainian officials that were kicked out for being corrupt and are now living in Russia, forget it outside the Trump cult.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-11 4:54 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


And now today, the Democrats at about 9 AM finally crossed the threshold and announced they will pursue actual impeachment. They are committing political suicide, and have done, are doing, a lot of damage to the country in the process.



DEMOCRATS TO UNVEIL ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, FOCUSED OB "ABUSE OF POWER", AND "OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS"



I caught only a part of Rep. Nadler's statement, I heard Rep. Adam Schiff's full prepared statement. It made me want to vomit, the insincerity and blatant falsehoods he was fronting. And then they quickly fled the scene, without taking any questions from reporters. Indicating they don't really believe what they are saying, and don't want to be cross-examined on it too closely.

An hour or so later, I caught Rep Kevin McCarthy's response, which expressed the verifiable facts, that easily deconstructed the whoppers by Democrats in what they are alleging.

A month ago, Steve Bannon, interviewed by Maria Bartiromo, said that Democrats were not going to turn back, that they can't at this point do so politically, even though this is the path to Democrat suicide:
"They've come ashore, they've burned the boats, they're advancing inland, there's no turning back."

That has turned out to be prophetic.




Bannon isn't really a great source for that. It's garbage spin that you would reject if it was some partisan democrat presenting something similar about republicans. The truth is that Trump abused his office by holding foreign aid to an ally that is fighting Russia to get them to announce an investigation into Biden. And he isn't going to stop there. That is unacceptable to just let go. And I think history isn't going to be kind to those that acted as accomplices to his corruption.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-11 5:05 AM
Btw does it make sense to you that Trump refused to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry if he had documents and testimony that would exonerate him?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-11 4:32 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The IG report is obviously a problem for Trump. While it found mistakes it also directly undercuts Trump's conspiracy theory. And I feel very badly for Horowitz because he will pay for presenting a report that contradicts Trump. Whatever Barr presents will have to be rock solid. That means if sources are from former Ukrainian officials that were kicked out for being corrupt and are now living in Russia, forget it outside the Trump cult.



Horowitz will pay for consistently downplaying the true facts, not even quoting them in his report and refusing to pull the trigger on what is clearly a conspiracy in the FBI, DOJ, CIA, State Department and other federal branches:

 Quote:

LISA PAGE: Trump isn't going to be president, right? RIGHT?!?

PETER STRZOK: No. No he won't. We will stop it.


 Quote:
PETER STRZOK: I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy's office that there's no way he gets elected -- but I'm afraid we can't take that risk. It's like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you're 40...


https://pjmedia.com/trending/ig-report-on-spygate-ignores-strzoks-insurance-policy-text-message/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/strzok-page-and-the-fbi-texting-scandal-explained



 Quote:
LISA PAGE (to Strzok): “The last thing you need [is Hillary Clinton] going in there loaded for bear,” Page continued. “You think she’s going to remember or care that it was more [DOJ] than [FBI]?”

[i.e., they thought Hillary Clinton was definitely going to be the next president, and Page was recommending they don't go after her too aggressively in their investigation, because she would be the next president, and would be angered that they as top FBI agents had pushed too hard to investigate her, that could make her "loaded for bear" (angry, seeking revenge, wanting to fire or demote the FBI agents who pushed too hard to investigate her. Keep in mind that Strzok and Page were deeply supportive of Hillary in 2016, and even they were afraid of her. ]




 Quote:
PETER STRZOK: Hillary should win 100 million to zero



 Quote:
KEVIN CLINESMITH: Viva la resistance!

[ Clinesmith is also the high-level lawyer in FBI's FISA division who excluded exculpatory information to make Carter Page look guilty when they KNEW he was not, just so they could get FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. And then proceeded to use the same lies in 3 more FISA warrants, to spy on the elected president Trump's transition team, and then on Trump's inaugurated administration officials. ]



Keep in mind, these are the central people in multiple investigations:
(1) of Hillary Clinton's e-mails, (2) in the 10-month Trump/Russia investigation, and (3) assigned as some of the 17 lawyers on Muller's special investigation. Until these texts were made public and Mueller was forced to fire them for appearances' sake.


Basically the entire top floor of both the FBI and the DOJ, all like-minded Hillary worshippers and Trump-haters, who openly supported Hillary in 2016, and openly detedted Donald Trump. More than that: Felt it their holy mission to use their power to prevent Trump from becoming president (STROK: "No, no he won't. We will stop it" ).

They exonerated Hillary Clinton, allowed her to delete 33,000 e-mails, smash computers and cel phones with records subpoenaed by both the FBI *and* the Senate and Congress, with no federal obstruction charges against Hillary and her staff, and actuually gave Mills and Abedin immunity ! FOR WHAT?!? Horowitz never bothered to ask these questions.

And these same FBI agents interviewed Hillary and Cheryl Mills, *NOT* under oath (as they tricked Flynn and Manafort and others, in perjury traps). In the case of Hillary and Mills and Abedin, Strzok and other FBI agents didn't even tape-record or transcribe the interviews!

There is a clear pattern of favoritism toward Democrats investigated and not charging them, and letting the evidence against them be destroyed and disappear.
And conversely with Trump and his officials, of malicious prosecution, fabricating evidence (and hiding exculpatory evidence),employing moles and informants, of baiting traps with guys like Stefan Halper, Mifsud from Malta, using British agents and the Australian ambassadors to entrap Papadapoulos, and in multiple countries using foreign assets to entrap Trump officials in ways they could never legally do in the United States. That also extends back to overzealous prosecution of Scooter Libby (who thanks to assistant defense secretary Richard Armitage coming forward, he admitted that it was he, not Scooter Libby, who inadvertantly gave reporter Robert Novak clues to out Valerie Plane as a CIA agent, that Libby was convicted for.) And Alaskan Senator Ted Stevens who the FBI vindictively prosecuted and destroyed (whose conviction was overturned on appeal, but that didn't give him his Senate seat back, that the FBI prosecution caused his seat to be lost to a Democrat. An interesting parallel to the malicious prosecution of Trump. )
And Enron. And Arthur Andersen. And Martha Stewart. All cases overseen by the likes of Comey, Mueller, Rosenstein and Weissmann, employing the same vicious tactics used on Trump, Flynn, Manafort, Roger Stone and others. Hiding exculpaatory evidence to convict innocent men, just to win a case and/or for partisan reasons, should be a crime that puts you in federal prison. What you would do to innocent men, should be done to you as a malicious prosecutor.

So...

Fuck yes, Horowitz will be punished, for failing to report the obvious, not even quoting it in his I G report, and essentially flying cover, to continue to enable the corruption in FBI and DOJ.

Unlike Michael Horowitz and Christopher Wray, Durham and Barr intend to clean house.

I fully expected Horowitz to fly cover and softpedal the evidence. I wish he'd surprised us all and actually done his job.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-11 5:04 PM
Horowitz had to work with the facts not Trump's crazy conspiracy theories. Barr at this point has no credibility btw. He has proven himself a partisan that is working not for the country but for just serving Trump's political interests.
Posted By: iggy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-14 4:49 AM
Nothing will change. People will grow more tired of political squabbles between team red and team blue. We will take a few clear strides to civil war and authoritarianism.

Both Trump and Biden probably abused their power and no one wants to take a panoramic view because that would force them to realize how similar their preferred party is to the side they regularly refer to as shit.

See ya again in a few months to a year.

-Iggy
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-14 4:23 PM
I would argue that things have changed. Holding foreign aid to an ally that is fighting a foe for political favors should never be acceptable. Trump will likely not be removed from office but the impeachment will historically forever mark his corruption. I would agree we are more into sides these days but basic concepts of right and wrong can't be all be dismissed because of it.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-15 1:19 AM
Lindsey Graham not even pretending...“I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I’m not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here,”

No morals just a lap dog protecting his master.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-17 7:35 PM
 Originally Posted By: iggy
Nothing will change. People will grow more tired of political squabbles between team red and team blue. We will take a few clear strides to civil war and authoritarianism.

Both Trump and Biden probably abused their power and no one wants to take a panoramic view because that would force them to realize how similar their preferred party is to the side they regularly refer to as shit.

See ya again in a few months to a year.

-Iggy



I have to agree.

1) That all these endless political back and forths in the national media and glacier-like progress (or illusion of it) are calculated to bore the American public, and cause the public to tune out and be indifferent to what occurs in Washington, thus giving the establishment in both parties free reign to do whatever they want without public objection, to enrich themselves at out expense.
I think that is the objection to Trump from the establisment elites on both sides, because Trump is breaking their stranglehold, restoring freedoms, and bringing about real reforms and change, taking the nation off the path to inevitable authoritarian control.

2) That the elites in both parties don't want to prosecute anyone in power, because if they, say, prosecute Hunter Biden and Joseph Biden, then that exposes other candidates of both parties and their highly placed children in similar sweetheart cushy jobs with their lobbyist campaign supporters to similar prosecution, on both sides. Because Trump, his children and his staff are not part of the two-headed Washington swamp beast, that is why there is less protection given to them by the political establisment on either side.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-17 7:51 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I would argue that things have changed. Holding foreign aid to an ally that is fighting a foe for political favors should never be acceptable. Trump will likely not be removed from office but the impeachment will historically forever mark his corruption. I would agree we are more into sides these days but basic concepts of right and wrong can't be all be dismissed because of it.



Gah!


The incredible double standard of the Democrat/Left.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton "witheld that foreign aid to an ally" (Ukraine) that was "fighting for its life" FOR HIS ENTIRE PRESIDENCY! It was Trump that began lethal military aid that is finally allowing Ukraine to defend itself now. Trump only witheld aid for something like 40 or 50 days, to make sure the U.S. was not giving funds to a notoriously corrupt country (Ukraine till then had ranked 3rd in corruption of all nations on earth!)
So all Trump did was temporarily suspend aid until, if I recall, September 11th. When the aid was expected by or before September 30th. There was no delay!
And then when you look at National Security Council member Fiona Hill (a clear Hillary Clinton supporter), with her elitist globalist ideology and snooty accent, who posted an editorial that she opposed ANY aid to Ukraine in a published editorial....
Or fired partisan ambassador Maria Yovanovich (another clear Obama/Hillary supporter, who threw a Hillary 2016 victory party, and used her power to advise Ukraine against corruption investigations of Soros-funded and other Democrat-friendly businesses in Ukraine, and disparaged president Trump constantly in front of Embassy staff and Ukranian officials) who likewise never pushed or made a priority of getting Ukraine U.S. military aid...
Or Alexander Vindman, the same...
Or any of the others who testified before Congress to slander Trump. **NONE** of them pressed for the aid, that Donald Trump **ACTUALLY PROVIDED**, that these Trump/Hillary bureaucrats never provided, and never advocated.

Trump's witholding aid for such a brief period, to verify how the aid would be used in a notoriously corrupt nation, is infinitely justifiable. Your arguments against Trump doing his job, to ensure U.S. aid is not thrown away or used for corrupt purposes, when your side NEVER DID ANYTHING to arm Ukraine, is incredible hypocrisy, and empty lying talking points.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-17 8:07 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Lindsey Graham not even pretending...“I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I’m not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here,”

No morals just a lap dog protecting his master.


More lying Democrat talking points. Senator Graham is making the point that the Soviet-style "investigation" in the House impeachment hearings was one-sided and failed to give equal and fair access to Republicans and Trump attorneys to subpeona witnesses, to present exculpatory evidence, to cross-examine Democrat witnesses. As many Republicans have said in hearings and exposed, it was a kangaroo court, only intended to smear Trump, NOT to pursue and equal and impartial investigation of the facts.

Based on that inherent unfairness, and more importantly that even with that Democrat partisan bias, Democrats have failed to make any case for impeachment. That is what Lindsey Graham is saying. He would dismiss the case for lack of evidence.

The transcribed July 25th Trump/Zelensky phone call, and Zelensky's multiple televised interviews, make clear there was no "quid pro quo", no corruption, no coercion, no intimidation, no "bribery", no "abuse of power", or whatever contrived focus-group selected term the lying Democrats are using this week. Everything else the House Democrats are alleging is just smoke and mirrors, easily disproven by these bedrock facts.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-17 9:45 PM



A reminder, what the original July 25th phone call between Trump and Zelensky said:

Trump's July 25th Ukraine phone call transcript: Read the document (Fox News, Sept 25, 2019)


1) There is nothing beyond wild Democrat speculation over the last 5 months to credibly challenge these facts. It is clearly a very friendly conversation, no coercion, no intimidation by Trump.

2) Beyond the transcript, Zelensky has made clear over and over in multiple televised interviews that he was not intimidated or pressured by Trump in any way. Democrats only imply Zelensky was pressured and intimidated by Trump, there is absolutely no evidence of that.
And in point of fact, Trump's campaign on reform and eliminating corruption in the U.S. is what inspired Zelensky to campaign on a similar agenda in Ukraine, and win in a similar landslide election. Far from Trump and Zelensky ever being adversarial, or Trump ever having to coerce him. They were always on the same page, no coercion, no blackmail, no bribery, no intimidation necessary.

Nothing the Democrats have presented in the last 3 months has been more than hearsay narrative, not a shred of facts to disprove what that phone transcript of Trump and Zelensky said.


And by the wildest of coincidences, this lying "Whistleblower/Ukraine hoax" narrative was spawned by the Deep State/Left at precisely the time the last dying embers of pseudo-credibility were fading away from the Mueller report.

Almost to the day the Mueller narrative died, this new "Whistleblower/Ukraine" narrative was created. And from the same sources in the Democrat House (Adam Schiff and new staffers to his office from NSC in particular) CIA (James Brennan, Gina Haspel who re-wrote the whistlblower form to allow it to attack a president, and mysteriously no one in CIS is willing to take credit for the revisions!), the FBI and the Obama/Hillary-loyalist-populated State Department. And a zealous and willing partisan liberal media to sell their new false narrative.
All these same players. Just by the wildest of coincidences.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-17 11:29 PM



Just noticing this...

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man, 12-9-2019

As to your complaint about this not being a bipartisan impeachment, that would be nice but i really don't see any chance of that happening with republicans. Lindsey Graham originally said it would be deeply troubling if the President engaged in a quidproquo. When Sondland testified under oath that there was one, Graham stated he stopped reading the transcripts. The one republican that was for impeachment [Rep. Amash of Michigan, formerly an R, now a D] was attacked for breaking ranks and is no longer a republican. Even if it somehow costs the democrats votes I think it's important to make Trump's attempts to withhold foreign aid for an investigation of his political rival an impeachable offense.


as contrasted with...

 Originally Posted By: M E M
Lindsey Graham not even pretending...“I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I’m not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here,”

No morals just a lap dog protecting his master.


You and your side berate Senator Lindsey Graham for partisan obedience, when you yourself acknowledge Graham was criticizing Trump less than a month ago, expressing possible dissent from Trump ("If Trump did this..."), before the full facts were disclosed.

But if Graham and others are not listening at this point, it's because nothing the Dems have offered in the last 2 months is new or persuasive evidence, just hearsay opinion calculated to smear Trump and hide the true facts:

1) That the Trump/Zelensky July 25th phone call exonerates Trump of what is alleged by the "Whistleblower"/Eric Ciaramella. There was no quid pro quo, or whatever the Democrats' focus-group-selected label is this week.

2) Zelensky in multiple televised interviews for months after the call makes clear there was no quid pro quo, no intimidation, no pressure on him by Trump.

3) That both the media and the Democrat leadership have been talking about and salivating over the possibility of impeaching Trump since the day of his inauguration, LONG before Trump's July 25th phone call. This is just the latest excuse, the latest lying narrative, to try and destroy Trump. They have literally been discussing impeachment in the media and leaping at every opportunity to do so EVERY MONTH SINCE TRUMP WAS INAUGURATED. Far from the hypocritical narrative that Democrats are oh-so-reluctantly pursuing impeachment. Or the narrative that the July 25th call is what suddenly compelled or required them to pursue impeachment. This is just the latest contrivance in an enduring 3-year effort to impeach Trump by whatever slanderous narrative they can manufacture.


And Senator Graham is not saying he is not a fair juror, he is mocking the Democrats like Pelosi and Schiff who pretend that impeachment is something they didn't want, or that they for one second are honestly weighing the evidence. As in a Soviet court, the impeachment fate of Trump was long predetermined, no matter what the evidence. And there is no evidence.




Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-18 7:43 AM
Graham said that early on and once it became clear there was a quid pro quo he went into attack mode for his master. I only give him credit for at least being clear that the oath he's taking about being impartial is a lie. While the Ukrainians were fighting for democracy Trump withheld foreign aid for political favors. That will be attached to him for history.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-18 4:13 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Graham said that early on and once it became clear there was a quid pro quo he went into attack mode for his master. I only give him credit for at least being clear that the oath he's taking about being impartial is a lie. While the Ukrainians were fighting for democracy Trump withheld foreign aid for political favors. That will be attached to him for history.



What I just pointed out above is that Sen. Graham was perfectly willing to criticize Trump, saying "If Trump did this..." then Graham was ready to condemn the alleged quid pro quo. But that turned out to be hearsay, with absolutely nothing to back it up. And Trump released the July 25th phone transcript, proving the quid pro quo allegation is a lie.

And Zelensky in multiple televised interviews in the weeks after confirming that over and over, proving the quid pro quo allegation is a lie.

And after that House Democrats had several weeks of hearings with Alexander Vindman, Fiona Hill, Gordon Sondland, Tim Morrison, Pat Cippelone, Marie Yovanovich, Michael Atkinson, Bill Taylor, George Kent, Kurt Volker, David Holmes, and so forth, almost none of whom was listening on the phone call, who just offered their opinions and speculations, NOT evidence. And some of whom, despite Democrats' best efforts to prevent any defense of Trump, offered observations that exonerated Trump.


And as I said above, the hypocrisy of you and the Democrats is incredible. For THREE YEARS of Obama's presidency after the invasion of Ukraine in 2014 by Russia, the Obama administration offered nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in military aid to Ukraine to help them defend themselves. And yet the lying Democrats front a jaw-droppingly deceitful narrative that Ukranians died because "Trump witheld foreign aid"?!?
Trump withheld aid for about 48 days to verify the aid would not be used corruptly, that's all, released on Sept 11th, well before the Sept 30th deadline. So there was no interruption of aid, despite Trump doing his job in verifying the aid would not be used for corrupt purposes. So all this lying narrative on the Democrat side is completely based on false narrative and wild speculation with no facts in evidence, NONE.

To deflect from the provable corruption on the part of Joseph Biden and his son Hunter Biden, where Biden openly boasted on video that he forced then-Ukranian president Poroschenko to fire the lead prosecutor investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden, with the clear threat (on videotape!) that Biden would take away $1.5 billion in aid to Ukraine if he was not fired. Now, that's , quid pro quo !

If you would take your partisaan blinders off to see it.

Likewise then-ambassador Marie Yovanovich giving the Ukranian government a list of U.S. companies they could not investigate (all Soros-funded businesses or otherwise friendly to the Democrat party).

Seriously, M E M, how can you evade these facts and continue to front the lying talking points you keep repeating?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-18 5:40 PM



Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA) on Laura Ingraham's program last night compared what the Democrats are doing now to what is termed "target fixation", where a military pilot is so fixated to his target that he accidentally crashes his plane into a mountain. That the Democrats with this impeachment obsession are essentially crashing the country into a mountain.

Democrats have no chance of beating Trump in 2020, so they are throwing everything into this hail-mary political play, and they don't care about the chaos and division they are stoking with this move. It is a move incredibly destructive to the country, and inherently anti-American in that destruction, and the erosion of public confidence in our Constitutional rule of law. By doing so, Democrats are making clear to the nation they are unfit to hold elected office.

I guess as a Republican, I should be thanking the Democrats for this incredible over-reach, that assures Trump's re-election in Nov 2020, and assures Democrats will lose control of the House at the same time. Democrats have made clear if this attempt fails, they will just make another attempt to impeach Trump later, and another and another. They've made voters' choice easy, for how to stop this impeachment B.S. and get on with the nation's business: Vote all Democrats out of office.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-18 11:32 PM

Sometime today, Democrats will put forward a vote by the entire House for impeachment. They already did so Monday in the House Judiciary Committee (which the Democrats control) by a vote of 23-17 along party lines. Now it will go through a vote of all 435 members of the House, before going to the Senate for an actual trial, if it isn't voted dead on arrival.

By comparison, the House hearings of both Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton took about a year for each, of thorough and bipartisan hearings to reach this stage, with preceding special investigations that found each guilty of crimes.

To date, Trump has been found guilty of nothing, NOTHING, that would warrant a House impeachment or a trial. It is a cheap Democrat stunt, intended to damage Trump's popularity, in a desperate attempt to prevent his re-election, because Democrats have no other options, other than to slander someone who is quantifiably the most successful president in at least 50 years.
I shit on the integrity of the Democrats, who have lawlessly and un-Constitutionally pursued impeachment without evidence, despite the lack of evidence, just because they have a House majority, just because they could, just a Hail-Mary attempt to damage a President of the opposing party.


Tucker Carlson Tonight, December 17, 2019


The only thing that makes it unintentional comedy is the incredible Democrat over-reach, that is doomed to failure, that will have such blowback that it will destroy what's left of Democrat power after the 2020 election. Score another victory for the Bolsheviks who run the Democrat party. This remarkable abuse of power only demonstrates that Democrats are infinitely unworthy of that power.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 4:48 AM
Trump officially impeached.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 3:35 PM

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Trump officially impeached.


And by "officially", you mean deceitfully and hypocritically, with no legal or ethical standards.

See the Tucker Carlson link in my above post. As he puts it, Democrats don't just lie, they completely invert the truth, and pretend to be something they're not, to deceive voters. But the voters are not fooled, and the dynamite the Dems are playing with will blow up in their faces in Nov 2020. They have assured Trump's re-election and Dems' loss of the majority in the House.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 4:31 PM



DAVID BOSSIE: DEMOCRATS VOTING TO IMPEACH TRUMP ABUSE THEIR POWER, AND BRING GREAT SHAME UPON THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 4:43 PM


READ TRUMP'S LETTER TO PELOSI ON IMPEACHMENT - December 17, 2019



After Trump took the time to write Pelosi a letter on the subject, Pelosi said on video to reporters that she didn't even read it, but portrayed the letter (which she didn't read!) as "sick".

For those of us who actually read it, it details the un-Constitutional nature of the impeachment, the lack of witnesses or specific crimes, that completely bypasses the laws and legal precedent for impeachment, that will be condemned by history 100 years from now.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 5:39 PM



And here's the letter by White House attorney Pat Cippelone to Rep. Jerry Nadler on December 1, 2019, detailing the legal reasons Trump's White House was not cooperating more with Nadler's committee, specifically because of the partisan and one-sided unfair process that did not allow Trump to defend himself against allegations, to subpoena and call witnesses, to cross examine witnesses, or to present exculpatory evidence that would prove his innocence.


READ: White House's letter to Nadler saying it won't participate in impeachment hearing
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 7:35 PM



Referenced in Cippelone's above letter is a later December 6 letter. Here is that brief but terse December 6th letter, only two paragraphs:


White House won’t participate in impeachment hearings, tells Nadler to 'end this inquiry now’
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 8:05 PM



And wow, look at this, what the Democrats label in false narrative as a "conspiracy theory" of the Deep State, the FISA court itself publicly says that the FBI's procedure for FISA warrant requests is not just flawed, but completely untrustworthy, to the point that they are demanding a change in procedure from the FBI before the FISA court will honor any further warrant requests:

FISA COURT SLAMS FBI OVER SURVEILLANCE APPLICATIONS, IN RARE PUBLICLY STATED ORDER TO FBI



As FISA warrants were approved at over a 99% ratio last year (over a thousand requested, only one denied) and given the very public exposure of the deliberate deceptions by Comey, McCabe, Clinesmit and others in the FBI in the four FISA warrants approved to do surveillance on Carter Page (and through him surveillance on the entire Trump campaign, elected transition team, and inaugurated administration!), how easily these deceptions were passed... it makes you wonder how many hundreds, thousands of other FISA warrants were fraudulently obtained, how many others have had their civil rights violated.


And how no one, even among the FISA court judges, didn't say Hey, this is a warrant to do surveillance on a Republican presidential campaign, maaybe this is a bad idea and an abuse of power...

But no.
They did it anyway.

And even this demand by the FISA court is not enough. They should demand rescinding of those FISA warrants, and throw out all evidence obtained from them, as fruit of the poisoned tree. And demand prosecution for perjury of every person in FBI and DOJ whose signature was on those FISA warrants, saying the evidence to request them was "VERIFIED".

Anything less than that is a softpedal. Is just a bare minimum CYA by the FISA court. To request less than prosecution for this outrage for me just confirms these judges are part of the conspiracy, for FISA to let these perjured FISA warrants and the evidence obtained stand, for FISA to not demand prosecution for perjury of the FBI and DOJ officials who deliberately falsified these warrants, on a 2016 presidentiaal candidate, and an inaugurated president elect!

Again: Lisa Page and Peter Strzok in texts talked about knowing a FISA judge, Rudolf Contreras, and in a self-incriminating text said they would all be attending the same dinner party, and planned an ex parte secret meeting inside the dinner party with Contreras.
Viva la resistance!
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 8:10 PM



GOP PUSH TO REFORM FISA GAINS MOMENTUM AMONG LAWMAKERS AFTER DECADES OF ABUSE, AFTER HOROWITZ I G REPORT


More of that "right wing conspiracy theory", confirmed by overwhelming evidence.




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 8:34 PM



LATVIAN GOVERNMENT SAYS IT FLAGGED LAUNDERED PAYMENTS TO HUNTER BIDEN AS "SUSPICIOUS" IN FEB 2016, NOTIFIED UKRANIAN GOVERNMENT


Don't expect this one to appear on CNN or MSNBC, it doesn't fit their lying narrative, and therefore has to be buried.

Note that this notification far precedes Trump's becoming the Republican presidential nominee, and involved no U.S. involvement, to be labelled a partisan interest in Hunter Biden, or then-Vice President Joe Biden. It was other governments who found Hunter Biden suspicious, regardless of who he was.

Hunter Biden was on the radar as a suspicious and corrupt player long before it came to the attention of anyone in U.S. law enforcement. Rep. Gohmert (R-TX) made the point that Joseph Biden demanding the firing of Ukraine's prosecutor Shokin (in a quid pro quo threat of denying Ukraine $1.5 billion in aid unless Shokin was fired) in those early months of 2016 may have not only been to protect VP Joe Biden's son at Burisma. But also to protect then-2016 candidate Hillary Clinton from yet another Democrat scandal, as she was already neck deep in 1) the FBI illegal server/e-mail scandal, 2) the Uranium One sale of 20% of U.S. uranium to Russia Hillary approved as Secretary of State, and 3) the hundreds of millions of "pay to play" donations to the Clinton Foundation, in exchage for giving these foreign governments access and preferred treatment in Hillary Clinton's state department.

Still waiting for the Democrats' slightest interest in those far more blatant quid pro quo scandals.





Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 9:29 PM




GOP reveals new Strzok texts concerning 'crescendo of leaks,' demands watchdog ICIG Michael Atkinson investigate



The incredible web of FBI, DOJ, CIA, DNI and FISA corruption. And most of what we know is from self-incriminating texts and e-mails by Strzok, Page, Clinesmith, Bruce and Nellie Ohr, with further mentions of details in meetings with McCabe, Comey, and even the oval office.

It's quite clear in many of these texts that these were highly opinionated Democrat partisans, who were zealous about opposing Donald Trump and electing Hillary Clinton, and perfectly willing to use their FBI leadership power to make that happen.

  • LISA PAGE: Trump isn't going to become president, right? RIGHT?!?

    PETER STRZOK: No. No, he won't. We will stop it.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 9:32 PM



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 9:49 PM



and:




Very clear intent to use their FBI power to stop Trump from being elected, or a backup "insurance policy" to cripple Trump politically if he against their plans became president.

I don't know how I G Michael Horowitz can allege there was not clear conspiratorial intent within the FBI. "Andy's office" is the office of FBI assistant director Andrew McCabe, and that Strzok, Page and McCabe, three of the FBI's highest officials, were openly plotting to prevent Trump's election, in a high-level FBI office.

Along with their many other texts among themselves, and with other high-level FBI lawyers.
  • KEVIN CLINESMITH, FBI FISA Division lawyer, who fraudulently changed documents to falsely obtain a FISA warrant on Carter Page, and through him the entire Trump campaign: "Viva la resistence!"


What more evidence does Michael Horowitz need to connect the dots?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-19 10:40 PM




Rep. Michael Turner’s (R-OH) full questioning of Gordon Sondland - Trump impeachment hearings


A brief 5-minute clip from the House impeachment hearings, one of the more insightful moments. Gordon Sondland was a difficult witness, I think for both sides, because his testimony was so all over the place. First he seems to condemn Trump, then he seems to defend Trump, back and forth.
I think Rep. Michael Turner did a great job of nailing jello to the wall. He gets Sondland to reveal his "everyone was in on it" comment was just his opinion, with no firsthand observations or supporting facts.

SONDLAND: "That is my opinion..."
REP. TURNER: "Which is nothing!"


Sondland is a difficult one to figure out. He was appointed by Trump, as many wealthy people are by presidents of both parties, but is not a personal friend of President Trump. As I understand it, Sondland is the owner of a chain of luxury hotels. Because he is a Trump official, his hotels are basically under seige by leftist protestors and it is hurting his livelihood. So his testimony may have been an attempt to appease both sides and throw out some ambiguous flashy statements that both sides could interpret as a win for them, and if the Left likes his rhetoric, maybe let up the pressure on his businesses.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-20 7:18 PM




Wow, both Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham were having a blast with the two-faced posturing of the Democrats, and ultimately, their complete failure with impeachment.

1) The deception that Democrats were allegedly pursuing impeachment reluctantly. Whereas both Dems and the media have visibly pursued impeachment at every half-baked opportunity since election day (see just a few examples in Trump's above-linked letter to Pelosi, that she didn't even bother to read).
When Pelosi announced Wednesday night on the House floor that the two Impeachment pseudo allegations had been passed 230-197-1, and 229-198-1, after she pounded her gavel and Dems began to cheer, she waved a finger in front of her lips to silence them from cheering as they began to do so.
On Twitter, not one reporter, BUT AN ENTIRE TEAM of Washington Post reporters posted a photo online of them having a celebratory dinner for the occasion, terming the event "Impeach-mas". When caught, they deleted the post, but not before conservative news got a hold of it and widely rreported it. Oh, yes, so somber, so serious, so reluctant to pursue impeachment. And your neutral liberal media on the story.

2) Now that Democrats have finally successfully passed their illegitimate bill for impeachment, now Pelosi is holding onto the bill, reluctant to pass it on to the Senate for a trial. Because they know the full facts will come out in a Senate hearing, and the nose-dive Democrats have suffered in the polls over the last month with the House hearings, will plummet even further if this goes forward in a Senate hearing. Newt Gingrich predicts it will silently die on the vine and disappear over the next few weeks, buried and forgotten. More sane leaders in the Democrat party do not want to pursue this, look up Democrat majority whip Rep. James Clyburn's comments on the subject. He makes clear that impeachment is bad for the party, and he and others are desperately looking for a political way out.

3) The president that the Democrats HAD TO STOP Trump, he is too much of a threat to the nation, we cannot wait till the next election to stop him, WE HAVE TO IMPEACH HIM!! The rush to judgement over 6 weeks to impeach, as compared to the Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton impeachments that each took at least a year, and were carefully fair and bipartisan. So unlike the partisan one-sided Salem Witch Trial unleashed on Donald Trump. THE RUSH TO JUDGEMENT, THE URGENCY, WE HAVE TO DO THIS!!
And then... nothin'.

Oh, never mind, says Pelosi. It can wait.
Yeah....

The party of lies, demagoguery, race-baiting, and splintering America for its own partisan gain strikes again. Score another victory for the Bolshevik party. It has already blown up in their faces. And I can't wait for the full backlash in November 2020.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-20 7:25 PM







Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-21 3:04 AM



Nancy Pelosi silences applause after Trump impeachment vote
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-21 3:13 AM



Rep. Rashida Tlaib on Trump: "We’re gonna impeach the motherf-----"



The day she was sworn in to Congress, Jan 4, 2019.
Close observers might note that far from somber push to impeach far preceeds the July 25th Trump/Zelensky phone call.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-21 3:19 AM




Rep. Waters leads impeach Trump chant - April 15, 2017




And Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) leading chants to impeach not 3 months after Trump was inaugurated.

Yeah, clearly roused by Trump's July 25, 2019 phone call.

Gee, y'know, if it wasn't so clear Dems were all serious and somber about it, you might think... Democrats just used the July 25 phone call as the slightest excuse to go for an impeachment they wanted all along!
Go figure...
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-21 5:40 PM
You're taking a few most extreme examples to try to generalize the whole party in a way that you wouldn't accept as fair if it was reversed. More democrats were against impeachment up until Trump's call to Zelensky to investigate the Biden's while withholding foreign aid. That abuse of office by Trump is when a vast majority of elected democrats supported impeachment. Even ones that are definitely at risk of losing their seats voted for it. I think republicans are going to pay the price in the long run though. They have to defend that "perfect" call and their own actions in not asking Trump to provide witnesses and documents that everyone knows wouldn't have helped Trump.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 6:06 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You're taking a few most extreme examples to try to generalize the whole party in a way that you wouldn't accept as fair if it was reversed.


I dunno. It’s hard to argue that the Democrat members of Congress breaking out in applause is simply a few outliers.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 7:59 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You're taking a few most extreme examples to try to generalize the whole party in a way that you wouldn't accept as fair if it was reversed. More democrats were against impeachment up until Trump's call to Zelensky to investigate the Biden's while withholding foreign aid. That abuse of office by Trump is when a vast majority of elected democrats supported impeachment. Even ones that are definitely at risk of losing their seats voted for it. I think republicans are going to pay the price in the long run though. They have to defend that "perfect" call and their own actions in not asking Trump to provide witnesses and documents that everyone knows wouldn't have helped Trump.



Respectfully, M E M, you're either blinding yourself to the truth, or openly dishonest. Every corner of the Democrat party, and equally if not more so all of the liberal media, have been divisively condemning Trump as an illegitimate president since election night 2016, and salivating over every last whiff of an opportunity for impeachment, for three years.

If any in the Democrat party, such as Nancy Pelosi, showed the slightest reluctance for impeachment, it is only for reasons of political appearance, because she felt impeachment couldn't be pulled off successfully and would blow back against the Democrats, which it has. But the hatred and uncivility by even the most centrist Democrats for three years has been palpable and on full display. I've never in my 56 years seen a speaker of the house voice such insults, slander and complete contempt on a president. Even as that President tries to ignore it, and undauntedly go on negotiating legislation on behalf of ALL the American people, with a Democrat party that openly despises him!

And that vile slander, contempt, and push toward impeachment did not begin after the July 25th phone call. It has been ongoing for three years. Even before Trump was elected in 2016.

Further, there is not one of over 20 Democrat primary candidates for 2020 who doesn't speak with the same fanatical far-Left voice in unison. They all advocate open borders, amnesty for illegals, health care benefits for illegals, de-criminalizing illegal border crossings, the economy-wrecking $100 trillion "Green New Deal", reparations for blacks, on and on. When asked in debates about support of these issues, every hand went up. There is absolutely no mistake in identifying the fanaticism and Bolshevik leftism of your party.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 8:45 PM
Right back at you WB as to either being blind or dishonest. You judging Pelosi doesn't mean anything to me. She showed more than the slightest resistance to impeaching Trump over the years but that doesn't suit your propaganda. Her past actions actually don't fit your narrative. Trump's actions do mine though He's an awful corrupt man. Moscow Mitch will not call the witnesses Trump has blocked because he knows Trump is guilty. If your party goes along with it than that's on them. Trump has been able to keep a lid on most of the testimony and documents on this but as time goes by it will come out. History will know just how corrupt Trump was and what shit bags like Mitch and Lindsey were in trying to cover for him. I no longer expect them to choose country over party from them.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 9:01 PM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You're taking a few most extreme examples to try to generalize the whole party in a way that you wouldn't accept as fair if it was reversed.


I dunno. It’s hard to argue that the Democrat members of Congress breaking out in applause is simply a few outliers.


How many applauded? It didn't sound like that many. I get that the GOP will try to use it to paint the entire party for political advantage but the truth is impeachment wasn't an easy partisan decion to make for more democrats than not. Many know they are risking their seat with their vote.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 9:08 PM



I also don't see that Trump did anything wrong in his July 25 phone call with Zelensky. I've posted the transcript here multiple times.

There is no threatening tone in Trump toward Zelensky, there is no demand for Ukrainian action in exchange for release of aid. A demand doesn't begin with "if you could do me a favor, if it's not too much trouble, that would be great..." That's an unconditional request, not a demand. Much as your party tries to spin it otherwise.

Trump is the President, and like any other president before him, it is within his rights to negotiate with other nations, even forcefully.
JFK with Kruschev, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, negotiating to remove U.S. missiles from Turkey, in exchange for Russia removing its missiles from Cuba.
Reagan negotiating with the Soviets, at first with threats, so as to later at the end of his presidency bring about miraculous nuclear arms reduction and lessening of tensions.
What did G.H.W. Bush offer to build the coalition to invade Kuwait?
What did Barack Obama 'quid pro quo" in his sellout giveaway to the Iranian government, that included secret delivery of billions in cash on pallates, to the Iranian government, that Obama in interviews admitted would likely be used to wage terror and even threaten U.S. lives?

So spare me the sanctimony about Trump asking about corruption that involved the Bidens. Trump as President had every legitimate reason to ask. And as I've cited in multiple linked articles, the Ukranian government, the U.S. State Department, DOJ and FBI, the Latviaan government, the Cyprus government, had ALL flagged suspicious Biden and Burisma laundered money, going back to 2014!

Your side is engaging the Soviet propaganda tactic of repeating a lie, until it becomes so prevalent as to be perceived as truth. But it remains a lie. In the light your side presents it, Trump's request to investigate corruption gives the slightest surface appearance of abuse of power. But Trump as president was following up on investigation and reports of corruption that well preceded him under the Obama administration. And as his duties to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, and to fully execute its laws, against the slanders of the Democrats looking for any excuse to bring him down, Trump was doing precisely his job.

And in accusing Trump with a slanted appearance of wrongdoing, you ignore the far more obviouss case of Biden acting criminally with "quid pro quo/bribery/coercion/abuse of power" or whatever focus-group tested term your party is using this week.

And likewise Senators Menendex, Leahy and Durbin:

 Originally Posted By: WB, page 1 of topic:

EVERYTHING that Trump is accused of doing is EXACTLY what Biden has done. And further, that Democrat Senators Menendez, Durbin and Leahy sent a clearly threatening letter to Ukraine that aid was directly dependent on their cooperation, even as they and other Democrats strain to allege Trump is guilty of doing so on pure conjecture, with no facts in evidence.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 9:18 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You're taking a few most extreme examples to try to generalize the whole party in a way that you wouldn't accept as fair if it was reversed.


I dunno. It’s hard to argue that the Democrat members of Congress breaking out in applause is simply a few outliers.


How many applauded? It didn't sound like that many. I get that the GOP will try to use it to paint the entire party for political advantage but the truth is impeachment wasn't an easy partisan decion to make for more democrats than not. Many know they are risking their seat with their vote.



I've seen multiple Republican congressmen interviewed about it who were there on the House floor to hear it when the impeachment vote was taken, they all say that every Democrat from a secure seat was gloating and slapping high-fives, that the only ones who weren't were the ones from districts that elected Trump in 2016, because these vulnerable Democrats know this impeachment assures their House seats will be gone in 2020.


Among those railing for impeachment of Trump are Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer, Durbin, "Mad Maxine" Waters, AOC, Tlaib, And every 2020 candiddate. Who is this mythical "moderate" group of Democrats who openly oppose impeachment. NAME THEM!! They don't exist. Clyburn is the only one I've heard, and that was only intermittently, as he sings in chorus with the impeachment crowd.

Your party are such liars, they only time they feign to be moderate and to PRETEND to hold moderate stances is in front of media cameras, so they can lie to voters and get re-elected, and then pursue their true and radical agenda.
Your Bolshevik party at work.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-22 9:59 PM
Political spin. Although given what we've heard every one should be for impeachment at this point. We got to impeachment because of what Trump did. Most Americans understand that he did something wrong. The plan to do a trial and not even try to call or get the documents by republicans just makes them historical accomplices to Trump's corrupt abuses if they go that route. In your mind Trump is withholding evidence that supposedly exhonerates him. That doesn't make sense does it?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-26 9:53 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Political spin. Although given what we've heard every one should be for impeachment at this point. We got to impeachment because of what Trump did. Most Americans understand that he did something wrong. The plan to do a trial and not even try to call or get the documents by republicans just makes them historical accomplices to Trump's corrupt abuses if they go that route. In your mind Trump is withholding evidence that supposedly exhonerates him. That doesn't make sense does it?



It is absolutely not "political spin" to cite the objective facts. That Democrats have been eager and fantasizing about impeaching Trump since at least inauguration day 2017. Thee Washington Post online-published and article speculating about ways to impeach Trump less than 20 minutes after his inauguration.
Rep. Maxine Waters: "Impeach 45, I will not rest until he is impeached!", over a year before the July 25th phone call.
Rep Rashida Tlaib: "We're gonna impeach the motherf***er!", 9 months before the phone call.

The enthuiasm of Democrats to impeach Trump by any lying pretense is not "spin" it is demonstrable and absolute fact.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-26 10:11 PM



Democrats also like to front the strawman false narrative that Republicans allege that it was the Ukrainians, not the Russians, who tried to interfere in the 2016 election. In point of fact, I've never spoken to one Republican who says that.
What Republicans ACTUALLY say is that while Russians clearly attempted to interfere with larger resources, the previous corrupt Ukrainian government was also interfering in the 2016 U.S. election, and clearly invested in Hillary Clinton winning. (As were U.S.-embassy-employed two-faced rats like Alexander Vindman, Marie Yovanovich, Bill Taylor, George Kent, and NSC/CIA rats like Eric Ciaramella and Fiona Hill).


There are at three clear and known attacks by Ukraine to interfere in the 2016 election:

1) The Ukranian ambassador to the U.S. wrote a published editorial endorsing Hillary Clinton.

2) The Ukranian government (in collaboration with Obama officials and FBI/CIA cabals loyal to the Democrats and Hillary Clinton) leaked information about Paul Manafort to damage the Trump campaign.
And
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli...igated-n2553684

3) Alexandra Chalupa, who acted as an operative to bring information from the Ukrainian government and the DNC/Hillary Clinton campaign, again in an attempt to cripple and defeat the Trump campaign.


The linked articles show a lot of other avenues of Ukranian intereference.

Not included, the Ukranian contacts of Christopher Steele regarding the Fusion GPS funded "Russia Dossier", and how that was backdoored into the DOJ and FBI and used to fraudulently obtain FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-27 1:38 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Political spin. Although given what we've heard every one should be for impeachment at this point. We got to impeachment because of what Trump did. Most Americans understand that he did something wrong. The plan to do a trial and not even try to call or get the documents by republicans just makes them historical accomplices to Trump's corrupt abuses if they go that route. In your mind Trump is withholding evidence that supposedly exhonerates him. That doesn't make sense does it?



It is absolutely not "political spin" to cite the objective facts. That Democrats have been eager and fantasizing about impeaching Trump since at least inauguration day 2017. Thee Washington Post online-published and article speculating about ways to impeach Trump less than 20 minutes after his inauguration.
Rep. Maxine Waters: "Impeach 45, I will not rest until he is impeached!", over a year before the July 25th phone call.
Rep Rashida Tlaib: "We're gonna impeach the motherf***er!", 9 months before the phone call.

The enthuiasm of Democrats to impeach Trump by any lying pretense is not "spin" it is demonstrable and absolute fact.



I would agree that objective fact isn't political spin but what you offer isn't objective. Nor is it in anyway a legitimate rationale for Trump to continue to block testimony and documents that from his impeachment trial. You want to talk about soviet style tactics! I think the earlier pretense was that the House process was unfair but Trump will still keep blocking that evidence while Moscow Mitch coordinates strategy with him. How utterly corrupt!
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-27 7:46 AM
 Originally Posted By: M E M
I would agree that objective fact isn't political spin but what you offer isn't objective. Nor is it in anyway a legitimate rationale for Trump to continue to block testimony and documents that from his impeachment trial. You want to talk about soviet style tactics! I think the earlier pretense was that the House process was unfair but Trump will still keep blocking that evidence while Moscow Mitch coordinates strategy with him. How utterly corrupt!


What specifically that I said was not fact?
I cited objective facts, and even linked and sourced them. I could speculate beyond that, but those are the objective facts, beyond any "political spin".

The Ukranians cited clearly did favor Hillary Clinton, they clearly did the things I cited to interfere in the 2016 U.S. election. Despite what Democrat partisans Yovanovich or Fiona Hill have said to the contrary. Those are the facts.

As I've said repeatedly, the Democrats in the House Judiciary and intelligence committees in their impeachment hearings CLEARLY did not follow the same unquestionaably fair and impartial standard for hearings that was set in the Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton impeachment proceedings.
Trump was denied participation of his counsel, was denied by Democrats the ability to call witnesses in his defense, was denied by Democrats the ability to present exculpatory evidence that would prove his innocence, was even denied by Democrats the ability to cross-examine DEMOCRAT witnesses!
If Republicans in the Judiciary committee asked questions, the Democrat majority on the committee could take a vote to shut down their line of questioning, just because they didn't like the questions! There was no reciprocal check on the Democrats' questions or witnesses. And ultimately, much of the hearings were behind closed doors in the SCIF room, and Democrats/Adam Schiff would leak out-of-context to the media portions after hearings each day what he felt smeared Trump.

Republican House members were not even allowed to sit in on the closed door hearings! And about a month later, Democrats eventually provided transcripts of the closed-door SCIF depositions, but that 1) denied Republicans the firsthand visual ability to read the witness' body language to see if they're lying, relying only on the written transcript that doesn't include that non-verbal aspect, 2) The transcripts did not allow Republicans to respond or cross-examine witnesses in weeks-old transcripts, and 3) the transcripts were provided late enough that they could not respond in a timely manner to the depositions, or even read them amidst the slam of public hearings occurring at the time the transcripts were finally released.


So... Trump not cooperating with this kangaroo court stacked against him was the only way Trump could fight back, and use the condition of more fair and bipartisan hearings (as in the previous cases of the Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton impeachments!) as the requirement before Trump would cooperate.

Trump has nothing to apologize for. It is the Democrats who have conducted an un-Constitutional Soviet-style court that denies rights to the accused.

If Democrats would give Trump fair proceedings, the same type of bipartisan proceedings as in the Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton House impeachments then Trump and his staff would cooperate. But the Democrats had their obcenely unfair proceedings for two months, and polls manifest the outrage that a majority of voters feel about that blatant unfairness. Democrats never allowed fair proceeedings, so we are now way past the opportunity to have fair and bipartisan proceedings.

Now House Democrats, who were blatantly unfair in their hearings, want to tell the Republican majority in the Senate how to conduct Senate hearings!
\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:
\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:

Please....

Democrats certainly never set a good example in the House, and it is not within their authority to tell the Senate Republican majority what to do.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-27 2:41 PM
You're just making excuses for something republicans would never allow if this were a democrat president. The House does have a right to see those documents and get that testimony. Trump chose to not cooperate at all. He wouldn't have done that if that evidence would have helped him. And now with a senate controlled by republicans it still looks he still isn't going to produce any of it. Instead your party is coordinating with him to actually do a sham trial with no witnesses and zero impartial judgement. Given that he held foreign aid for political favors I genuinely thought republicans in office would be better.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-27 11:35 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You're just making excuses for something republicans would never allow if this were a democrat president. The House does have a right to see those documents and get that testimony. Trump chose to not cooperate at all. He wouldn't have done that if that evidence would have helped him. And now with a senate controlled by republicans it still looks he still isn't going to produce any of it. Instead your party is coordinating with him to actually do a sham trial with no witnesses and zero impartial judgement. Given that he held foreign aid for political favors I genuinely thought republicans in office would be better.


Those are lying Democrat talking points, not a logical argument. It was up to Democrats to establish a mutually trustworthy and bipartisan standard for House impeachment hearings. They had the standard set by both the Richard Nixon impeachment in 1974, and the Bill Clinton impeachment in 1998. Under both those impeachments, with presidents of both parties there was a universally recognized standard of unquestionable fairness to both parties, where both sides had equal ability to subpoena, call witnesses and cross examine witnesses, and plenty of mutual advance warning for any witnesses or documents presented for a unquestionably equally fair prosecution and defense.
That is not, ABSOLUTELY NOT the case of Democrat House impeachment of Trump, where Democrats completely stacked the rules in favor of themselves and denied Trump, his attorneys, House Republicans, and others in his administration that same ability to defend themselves.

Based on that, Democrats have absolutely no moral high ground to piss and moan about how the Republican majority conducts its Senate trial. Based on the complete lack of evidence, it should simply be dismissed in the Senate for lack of evidence, as a similar case would be in any lower court.

And now on top of everything, where the Democrats had no credibility to begin with, now House speaker Nancy Pelosi is refusing to pass over documents to the Senate to begin a trial, which just further demonstrates this entire fraudulent case for impeachment is just a partisan show. And Democrats will continue to decline in the polls on this issue, because it is so painfully obvious to everyone. Even Democrats know this, but cling to any devious attempt to remove or politically damage Trump.
The Democrat case is a vicious lie.
It has always been a lie, through four previous federal investigations, ending with the Mueller Report around April of this year. Then kept alive past its death in disastrously absurd hearings with Mueller, Lewandowski and others, that all backfired aabsurdly on the Democrats, and only further hurt the credibility of the Mueller investigation, and proved even more Demcorat-partisan than was initially known, that Mueller was incompetent and partisan, and that it was partisan Andrew Weissmann who was the true architect of the Mueller investigation, with Mueller as the clueless inept figurehead, who oversaw laughable one-sided Democrat-partisan selective omissions in their investigation, and didn't even know what was in the report that he allegedly wrote!

Then this July 25th phone call hit job that was unleashed in September, just the lastest attempted contrivance to illegitimately remove Donald Trump as president.

And at every stage since then, Democrats have bent the rules and scorned the rule of law to manufacture a false narrative for impeachment. I'll say this, the Democrats are skilled liars and completely lacking in ethics, and that has allowed them to keep this false narrative alive until now. And as long as they could manipluate the rules and keep the true facts in the shadows, Democrats could keep that false narrative alive.
But Democrats know, once their false impeachment narrative left the Demcorat-controlled House, and entered an actual proceeding in the Senate, the true facts will be exposed. That their smoke-and-mirrors narrative for impeachment will be revealed as having no supporting facts, and it will be over.

And it is.

Pelosi is just trying to preserve the last dying fumes of that lying narrative from being completely exposed. She can delay it a few days or weeks, but it's over. Your party's deception and lies are fully exposed, and there's no stopping it.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-28 2:26 AM
It's legitimate oversight and hardly subjective to be making accusations that it's lies. If this was a democrat this is where I would know he's guilty. If those documents and testimony could have helped him you know he would have provided them instead of trying to block all of it. And the earlier excuse for not cooperating doesn't hold because republicans control the senate. There isn't a good reason for him not to produce the witnesses and documents now. Instead it looks like we truly will get a fake trial that won't actually absolve him one bit.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-28 9:50 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's legitimate oversight and hardly subjective to be making accusations that it's lies.


No, what the Democrats are saying is quantifiably lies.
I've lost track of how many times Adam Schiff's narrative has won him five Pinnochios.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
If this was a democrat this is where I would know he's guilty.


\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:

Dream on. That's wishful thinking on your part. In the cases of both Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton, both special investigations documented evidence of actual crimes. In the Trump case, there was no case that could be made for Trump having been guilty of a crime, to warrant going forward with impeachment. PERIOD.

The Democrats know there is insufficient evidence to convict Trump in a Senate trial, and that the same evidence in any normal trial would be thrown out of court without a trial for inssufficient evidence.
Thaat is why they are desperately trying to create another narrative, and prolong the handoff of impeachment to the Senate.


 Originally Posted By: M E M
If those documents and testimony could have helped [Trump] you know he would have provided them instead of trying to block all of it.


No, Trump is not cooperating at this point in protest to the very process Democrats have set up for Trump being unfair. Look at the Nixon and Clinton impeachments for what a fair process looks like.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
And the earlier excuse for not cooperating doesn't hold because republicans control the senate. There isn't a good reason for him not to produce the witnesses and documents now. Instead it looks like we truly will get a fake trial that won't actually absolve him one bit.


Trump has every right to not cooperate, and to exert executive privelege, or his basic rights as a U.S. citizen. Democrats have unlawfully screwed him and twisted the narrative at every step, why should Trump cooperate?

If Democrats had followed a lawful and fair process during the House impeachment hearings, THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE EVEN REACHED A HOUSE IMPEACHMENT HEARING, OR HAVE REACHED THE POINT OF MOVING TO THE SENATE.
Trump was FAR more cooperative and forthcoming with documents than either Nixon or Clinton were during their previous impeachments.

And Trump unprecedentedly released transcripts of TWO phone calls with Ukrainian president Zelensky. And that alone proves Trump's innocence of what Dems allege.
As does the fact that Zelensky has repeatedly said in televised interviews there was no quid pro quo, no pressure, no bribery, no intimidation, no blackmail, or whatever focus-group-selected catch-phrase lying narrative the Democrats are ussing this week.

Democrats are desperately groping at smoke. there is no case.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-28 5:39 PM
You’re just making shit up. The House’s impeachment was legal and constitutional. Executive privilege doesn’t apply to cover up wrongdoing.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 12:36 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You’re just making shit up. The House’s impeachment was legal and constitutional. Executive privilege doesn’t apply to cover up wrongdoing.


Alan Dershowitz, among the most respected legal scholars in the country, disagrees that the impeachment is right or legal several times a week in televised panel discussions. As do Jonathan Turley and several other legal scholars.

Democrats' impeachment attempt is well known nationwide as a political stunt, and the rapid declining support of it in the polls manifests most Americans see that.
And as Turley said, House Democrats are guilty of exactly the abuse of power they accuse Trump of, in impeaching Trump.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 1:28 AM
Turley argued that democrats should have pursued the courts but he has also said contrary to Trump’s latest rant to the contrary, Trump was really impeached by the House. And going through the courts will take years. He’ll lose but it will buy him lots of time. Trump in your mind is fighting to block information that exonerates him. And it’s not even a principled legal stance that you would extend to a democrat.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 3:03 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Turley argued that democrats should have pursued the courts but he has also said contrary to Trump’s latest rant to the contrary, Trump was really impeached by the House. And going through the courts will take years. He’ll lose but it will buy him lots of time. Trump in your mind is fighting to block information that exonerates him. And it’s not even a principled legal stance that you would extend to a democrat.




The consensus is the Democrats have already lost, and it's just a matter of Pelosi admitting the battle is lost, and letting the Senate make its ruling ending impeachment.

As for what Turley said, he was answering what other legal scholars have said, that if Pelosi doesn't pass on the House impeachment charges to the Senate, then impeachment didn't really happen. Turley said that impeachment has occurred regardless.
And in contrast to Turley's opinion, Trump-hating Noah Feldman, Harvard Law School professor who sat right next to Turley in the House impeachment hearings on December 4th, commented publicly he was in a panic that the impeachment is *NOT* official until Pelosi submits it to the Senate. So there is some dispute whether the current state of the process is officially impeachment or not.

Here is what Turley said in House impeachment hearings on December 4th:

Constitutional Law Prof. Stuns Dems on Impeachment: 'It's YOUR Abuse of Power'


He clearly says that Democrats are the ones abusing their power, by pursuing a partisan impeachment, not even trying to get a bipartisan consensus, and rushing to judgement.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 3:58 AM
Consensus of who? The people who don't want any first hand testimony and documents? Most of the polling I've seen show most people recognize Trump did something wrong with his call to Zelensky. Keeping evidence out of trial isn't going to be winner for republicans.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 4:14 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Consensus of who? The people who don't want any first hand testimony and documents? Most of the polling I've seen show most people recognize Trump did something wrong with his call to Zelensky. Keeping evidence out of trial isn't going to be winner for republicans.


Consensus of legal experts and Constitutional lawyers.
Alan Dershowitz and Jonathan Turley.
Laura Ingraham, who clerked for U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.
Kenneth Starr and Robert Ray, who both in turn oversaw the Whitewater special investigation.
Jenna Ellis, constitutional lawyer who was giving opinion about Trump impeachment for the last year, and now works for the Trump campaign.
Former U.S. attorney Joe DiGenova and Victoria Toensing, who also have been widely interviewed for 2 years and now represent the president.
Mark Levin, who was the Justice Department chief of staff during the Reagan years.
Sydney Powell, who also worked on the Whitewater investigation, worked on many cases handled and maliciously prosecuted by Mueller, Comey, Fitzgerald and others in Comey's FBI, worked on the Arthur Andersen and Enron cases, whose case on appeal reversed FBI convictions in those cases in a 9-0 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court for its injustice, and is currently working to similarly reverse the conviction of Michael Flynn.

Plus other high profile lawyers, former FBI directors and assistant directors, and U.S. attorneys, whose names escape me now. But highly accomplished lawyers and law enforcement people who are certainly in a position to give a highly informed opinion on the subject.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 4:37 AM



And regarding the polls, I always assume they are weighted in the Democrat favor, but even so, it's right down the middle, and has been losing ground since Schiff lost control of his closed-door SCIF-room hearings and selective leaks to the 93% anti-Trump liberal media.

As we've discussed since 2012, liberal pollsters tend to select a sampling of the population that over-represents Democrats 15% greater than their actual ratio of the population. And only use an accurate sampling in the week of an election. We all know how innacurate that sampling was in November 2016.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls...trump-6957.html
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 6:10 AM
(CNN)More than 500 legal scholars signed on to a letter published Friday accusing President Donald Trump of having "engaged in impeachable conduct" in his dealings in Ukraine.

"There is overwhelming evidence that President Trump betrayed his oath of office by seeking to use presidential power to pressure a foreign government to help him distort an American election, for his personal and political benefit, at the direct expense of national security interests as determined by Congress," they wrote. "His conduct is precisely the type of threat to our democracy that the Founders feared when they included the remedy of impeachment in the Constitution."
The letter comes after four other legal scholars testified at the first House Judiciary Committee impeachment hearing Wednesday, with three of them making the case for impeaching Trump.
The dozens of academics -- hailing from a variety of educational institutions including Yale, Columbia and Rutgers -- said in the letter that they were not taking a stance on whether Trump committed a crime.
....

How many can you cite WB?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 7:12 AM
From Reuters...
More than 700 scholars pen letter urging House to impeach Trump
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 8:20 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
(CNN)More than 500 legal scholars signed on to a letter published Friday accusing President Donald Trump of having "engaged in impeachable conduct" in his dealings in Ukraine.

"There is overwhelming evidence that President Trump betrayed his oath of office by seeking to use presidential power to pressure a foreign government to help him distort an American election, for his personal and political benefit, at the direct expense of national security interests as determined by Congress," they wrote. "His conduct is precisely the type of threat to our democracy that the Founders feared when they included the remedy of impeachment in the Constitution."

And by the way, CNN is possibly the single most partisan network, and never misses an opportunity to destroy their own credibility. By a Harvard study, CNN and NBC share 93% negative coverage of Trump. The highest of all the partisan-liberal media.




The letter comes after four other legal scholars testified at the first House Judiciary Committee impeachment hearing Wednesday, with three of them making the case for impeaching Trump.
The dozens of academics -- hailing from a variety of educational institutions including Yale, Columbia and Rutgers -- said in the letter that they were not taking a stance on whether Trump committed a crime.
....

How many can you cite WB?


And yet anyone who looks at the July 25th phone transcript can plainly see that Trump didn't do anything wrong.

And Zelensky's multiple televised interviews confirm that he was under absolutely no pressure from Trump.

So the 500 signatures by "legal scholars" is still just another lying Democrat stunt, by "legal scholars" who just happen to be Democrats and Hillary Clinton voters.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 8:26 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
From Reuters...
More than 700 scholars pen letter urging House to impeach Trump


Because they are 700 Democrat partisans who want Trump removed by whatever illegitimate means. And they know that not passing the impeachment legislation on to the Senate instantly kills their longshot scheme.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 8:29 AM


 Originally Posted By: M E M
How many can you cite WB?


Uh...


 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Consensus of legal experts and Constitutional lawyers. Alan Dershowitz and Jonathan Turley. Laura Ingraham, who clerked for U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Kenneth Starr and Robert Ray, who both in turn oversaw the Whitewater special investigation. Jenna Ellis, constitutional lawyer who was giving opinion about Trump impeachment for the last year, and now works for the Trump campaign. Former U.S. attorney Joe DiGenova and Victoria Toensing, who also have been widely interviewed for 2 years and now represent the president. Mark Levin, who was the Justice Department chief of staff during the Reagan years. Sydney Powell, who also worked on the Whitewater investigation, worked on many cases handled and maliciously prosecuted by Mueller, Comey, Fitzgerald and others in Comey's FBI, worked on the Arthur Andersen and Enron cases, whose case on appeal reversed FBI convictions in those cases in a 9-0 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court for its injustice, and is currently working to similarly reverse the conviction of Michael Flynn.

Plus other high profile lawyers, former FBI directors and assistant directors, and U.S. attorneys, whose names escape me now. But highly accomplished lawyers and law enforcement people who are certainly in a position to give a highly informed opinion on the subject.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 8:35 AM






No one too important, just the most respected legal scholar in the United States, who teaches at Harvard law school.

Who is also (like Jonathan Turley) a Democrat who voted for Hillary Clinton, but still respects the rule of law, even when it goes against his party of choice.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-29 9:44 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
From Reuters...
More than 700 scholars pen letter urging House to impeach Trump


Because they are 700 Democrat partisans who want Trump removed by whatever illegitimate means. And they know that not passing the impeachment legislation on to the Senate instantly kills their longshot scheme.


So consensus only mattered until I sighted the hundreds of legal scholars that don't agree with the couple you sighted. Got it. Oh and you can render such quick judgements on all of them too.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2019-12-30 7:58 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
From Reuters...
More than 700 scholars pen letter urging House to impeach Trump


Because they are 700 Democrat partisans who want Trump removed by whatever illegitimate means. And they know that not passing the impeachment legislation on to the Senate instantly kills their longshot scheme.


So consensus only mattered until I sighted the hundreds of legal scholars that don't agree with the couple you sighted. Got it. Oh and you can render such quick judgements on all of them too.


No, this is the same kind of stunt Democrats have been pulling since at least when W. Bush was president, where they have a long list of "scholars", lawyers, military officers, economists, state department officials, or somesuch (who by the oddest coincidence all happen to be Democrats!) condemn something a Republican president did to be worse than the rise of the Antichrist, and sign a showy petition to that effect that means nothing. All it really means is that they're Democrat partisans trying to damage a Republican president.

As I recall, Alan Dershowitz was asked about such a petition two months ago, and he said even if they were all accomplished lawyers and judges, they still are not competent to make such a declaration because they are not part of the proceedings and familiar with the details of the case.

i.e., it's a partisan-Democrat stunt.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-13 11:56 PM




PELOSI'S WEEKS-LONG DELAY IN HANDING OFF HOUSE IMPEACHMENT HAS CREATED CRACKS IN DEMOCRAT CAUCUS


 Quote:
Cracks began to appear Wednesday in congressional Democrats' support for Nancy Pelosi’s prolonged delay in sending articles of impeachment to the Senate, with several lawmakers saying it's time for the House speaker to get on with it.

Rep. Jahana Hayes, D-Conn., said she voted last month to impeach President Trump over urgent concerns about his conduct and argued that handing the case over to the Senate is the right thing to do.

“I trust the speaker's judgment, but I voted on these articles when they were presented because I felt that we were at a point where it needed to happen,” said Hayes, a freshman member. “So personally, I'd like them to go forward.”

Across the Capitol, Senate Democrats began to question whether Pelosi’s delay strategy undermines their argument that Trump’s conduct warrants serious and urgent attention.

“We are reaching a point where the articles of impeachment should be sent,” Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., told reporters Wednesday.

Other senators questioned what kind of leverage Pelosi has over the Senate.

“I respect the fact that she is concerned about the fact about whether or not there will be a fair trial. But I do think it is time to get on with it,” Sen. Chris Coons, D-Del., told Politico.

Although House Democrats voted to impeach Trump on Dec. 18, Pelosi declined to promptly send the articles over to the Senate for a trial over concerns that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was coordinating with the White House and tilting the playing field -- as Democrats sought assurances that the Senate would call certain witnesses. McConnell, R-Ky., has made no such promises, insisting that the trial begin and lawmakers determine how to proceed on potential testimony later.


Coordinating the same way House and Senate Democrats were coordinating with the Clinton White House in 1998?

Man, the double-standard Democrats hold Republicans to never lets up. But meanwhile, the vindictiveness of Democrats and the abandonment of the rule of law is becoming increasingly clear, even to Democrat leaders.
I was a bit surprised when Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) even said it was time to hand over the House impeachment legislation to the Senate.

Again, the hypocrisy just screams, how urgent Democrats were to rush through impeachment, and now Pelosi is cynically manipulating and holding on to that House impeachment vote for clearly cynical political manipulation purposes.

Speculation is that Pelosi is partly delaying impeachment to aid Joe Biden's candidacy, as most of the other candidates are Senators who have to suspend their campaigns and return to Washington to attand the impeachment hearings, now delayed to occur right before the Iowa Caucus and Super Tuesday primaries.
Pelosi is also speculated to be delaaying impeachment to make a Senate trial compete with Trump's state of the union address. Steve Bannon has suggested that Trump delay his state of the union until after the impeachment, so as to bypass that landmine.

Democrats never miss an opportunity to demonstrate they have absolutely no ethics. In this case screwing their own, to give advantage to Biden. Just as they rigged the primary for Hillary Clinton in 2016.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-17 6:43 PM


PELOSI HANDS OUT SOUVENIR IMPEACHMENT PENS, DEMS SLAMMED FOR GLOATING AS HOUSE DELIVERS TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ARTICLES TO SENATE


 Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi drew criticism Wednesday for handing out commemorative pens -- with her name on them -- after signing a resolution to transmit two articles of impeachment against President Trump to the Senate for trial.

To critics, the tone of the event seemed celebratory -- a far cry from December, when Pelosi wore black and insisted on the House floor it was a “solemn” day before the Democrat-controlled body voted to impeach the president on abuse of power and obstruction of Congress allegations. Later, she even cut short two rounds of cheers from Democrats when the articles were adopted.

“Nancy Pelosi’s souvenir pens served up on silver platters to sign the sham articles of impeachment,” White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham tweeted in response. “She was so somber as she gave them away to people like prizes.”

“You know what you hand out pens for? Accomplishments. Like, say, signing a historic trade deal with China,” Republican National Committee spokeswoman Elizabeth Harrington added, referencing Trump — who on the same day as Pelosi's impeachment signing entered a landmark trade agreement with Chinese Vice Premier Liu He in the East Room of the White House.

Trump maintains the House impeachment effort -- based on accusations that he pressured Ukraine to launch an investigation into his political rival, former Vice President Joe Biden, and his son, Hunter, in exchange for U.S. military aid -- is a “hoax” and claims he is a victim of a political “witch hunt” led by Pelosi. He is the third president in U.S. history to be impeached.

“So it's fitting that Democrats are handing out pens for their sole accomplishment: impeachment. Democrats have done NOTHING for the American people,” Harrington added.

Before the signing Wednesday, aides set out two small trays containing more than two dozen black pens emblazoned with Pelosi's signature. She entered the room and sat at a table with the documents and pens before her. House prosecutors and the committee chairmen who had worked on Trump's impeachment were standing around her. Pelosi picked up each pen, signed a bit, and handed each one to a lawmaker. Sometimes, she was smiling.

“Embarrassing spectacle - Pelosi using sterling silver platters and handing out ceremonial pens to everyone in sight, made it ridiculously theatrical and so tacky and clownish. What goofballs,” Mark Simone, a conservative radio host, tweeted.
“Impeachment is so “Prayerful” that Pelosi was handing out pens in celebration. Pathetic,” Benny Johnson, chief creative officer for Turning Point USA, added.





Yet more evidence that the Democrats are not serious about impeachment, that they don't believe Trump is actually guilty of what they allege without evidence. That it's all for show, for the liberal media cameras and lying narrative, no substance, just PR, just to smear Trump.


Meanwhile, as Democrats play their lying games that the American public isn't even listening to, Trump in the same 24 hours signed the two biggest trade deals of his presidency :
1) with China,
and
2) a USMCA trade agreement with Canada and Mexico, that guarantees economic growth through at least the next year.

That's on top of President Trump's negotiated trade deals with Japan, Korea, Central and South America, and Europe.


Among Trump's other vast accomplishments:

Rebuilding our military from the devastation Barack Obama left it in, where 50% of our military planes were grounded and not combat ready. Where military servicemen were dying on a regular basis due to dangerously slashed military spending and training.

And with Trump's policy month after month for 3 years, continuously producing the best economic numbers the country has seen in at least 50 years, particularly benefiting the lowest 25% of wage earnerss, including blacks, hispanics, women, people under 30, and even improved lives for released prison inmates.

A nation energy-independent and a net exporter of oil for the first time in 70 years. Now we truly can just walk away from the Middle East, if we choose to.

Religious freedoms restored.

The most accomplished and transformative president since at least FDR.

But Democrats are screaming a lying narrative, because lies are all they have.

Meanwhile, Trump is actually rebuilding the country. As Dems try to destroy it, in their efforts to destroy Trump.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-17 7:36 PM
When it’s okay to withhold foreign aid to try to force a country to help Trump win an election I can’t imagine you really being bothered about pens. And you know Trump is toast when witnesses and documents happen.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-17 11:02 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
When it’s okay to withhold foreign aid to try to force a country to help Trump win an election I can’t imagine you really being bothered about pens. And you know Trump is toast when witnesses and documents happen.


That's a very distorted point of view of witholding economic activity with governments who murder U.S. citizens, murder thousands of their own citizens, as Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Russia, and China do. Sanctions are a way to non-lethally pressure them toward better behavior. In the case of Iran, that government has killed 1,500 of its own protesting citizens in the last month.
Obama sent his own presidential campaign advisors to Israel to aid Netanyahu's political opponent, directly interfering in a foreign election, but even so collossally failed. Netanyahu, for all the interference, was re-elected. He would have been justified to send Mossad to kill Obama.

You seem unaware that Obama and other past presidents used sanctions and other federal powers (less effectively) to force actions of nations worldwide as well. Was Obama, using the same economic sanctions tools, also trying "to force a country to help [Obama] win an election"?

No, because you would never hold your deceitful party to the same standard. Even when they deliver pallettes with billions in cash to an Iranian terrorist state, so they can use it to wage terrorism against the U.S., and never for a day stop chanting "death to America". Literally, the same day the cash was delivered!

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-18 12:06 AM
It’s very clear Trump was doing the withhold for his own self interests WB. This isn’t “the other side does it too” thing. And he did so while Ukraine is fighting our foe and trying to protect it’s democracy. Evil and corruption right in front of your eyes.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-18 2:08 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It’s very clear Trump was doing the withhold for his own self interests WB. This isn’t “the other side does it too” thing. And he did so while Ukraine is fighting our foe and protect it’s democracy. Evil and corruption right in front of your eyes.



There is absolutely no evidence of that.
FOUR different investigations, concluding with the Mueller report, found no basis for further criminal investigation.

And then this utter crapola about Ukraine. It has no basis other than as a liberal talking point to smear Trump.
The trancribed Trump/Zelensky phone call disproves it.
Zelensky's own account in multiple televised interviews is likewise that it was a very friendly call, no blackmail, no intimidation, no quid pro quo, no interruption of aid to Ukraine.

It's a complete sham by Democrats, just to smear Trump, and polls show that no one even cares to even listen to the Democrats' lies at this point. They can rant their slanders all they want, no one cares, no one is even listening any more.
No named accusers.
No crimes or spoecific allegations.
Nothing Trump even needs to defend against. All Democrats have done is further assure Trump's re-election. Despite how vicious the Democrat slanders are of Trump, it's on some level funny, how much they've blown themselves up.



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-18 4:32 AM
Uh no. Anybody willing to testify under oath has provided evidence. Unlike in Clinton’s impeachment, Trump has tried to block and gag all witness and documents to hide his corruption. I know you hate the other side so much you’re satisfied with the shitbag’s lies and corruption but he’s not going to be able to keep the lid on forever. Bolton and other’s should be able to testify. Otherwise it’s a sham trial that will just aid Trump in a temporary coverup.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-18 3:22 PM


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Uh no. Anybody willing to testify under oath has provided evidence. Unlike in Clinton’s impeachment, Trump has tried to block and gag all witness and documents to hide his corruption. I know you hate the other side so much you’re satisfied with the shitbag’s lies and corruption but he’s not going to be able to keep the lid on forever. Bolton and other’s should be able to testify. Otherwise it’s a sham trial that will just aid Trump in a temporary coverup.



Actually, it was YOUR party, the Democrats, in the House hearings who prevented any exculpatory witnesses and testimony that would have prevented this factless narrative from ever reaching the Senate for a trial. Adam Schiff had hearings mostly behind closed doors, and then leaked daily to his buddies in the liberal media any salacious exerpts that appeared to support his impeachment narrative, but only appeared to when twisted and selectively leaked outside their full context.

But like I said, the public doesn't care. And all the viciousness the Democrats can unleash won't make them care. The public sees this impeachment drive for the contrived manufactured lying narrative and pointless exercise that it is.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-18 3:49 PM


Who Adam Schiff Is? No One on Jeopardy knows



Even on Jeopardy, no one knows (or cares) who Rep. Adam Schiff is.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-18 4:55 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Uh no. Anybody willing to testify under oath has provided evidence. Unlike in Clinton’s impeachment, Trump has tried to block and gag all witness and documents to hide his corruption. I know you hate the other side so much you’re satisfied with the shitbag’s lies and corruption but he’s not going to be able to keep the lid on forever. Bolton and other’s should be able to testify. Otherwise it’s a sham trial that will just aid Trump in a temporary coverup.



Actually, it was YOUR party, the Democrats, in the House hearings who prevented any exculpatory witnesses and testimony that would have prevented this factless narrative from ever reaching the Senate for a trial. Adam Schiff had hearings mostly behind closed doors, and then leaked daily to his buddies in the liberal media any salacious exerpts that appeared to support his impeachment narrative, but only appeared to when twisted and selectively leaked outside their full context.

But like I said, the public doesn't care. And all the viciousness the Democrats can unleash won't make them care. The public sees this impeachment drive for the contrived manufactured lying narrative and pointless exercise that it is.




Are you unaware that Trump is blocking all the witnesses and documents that he can? As to what the public wants, any polling I’ve seen shows that the public wants a fair Senate trial with witnesses. I think you hope the public doesn’t care because you know Trump is guilty.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-23 6:59 PM

Trump has been more cooperative with investigators than either the Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton white houses were. They have been extremely forthcoming with thousands of documents. They have only witheld those witnesses that they felt potentially compromise internal secrets of the White House, might compromise Trump and his inner circle's opinion of foreign leaders, and their inner strategy in dealing with foreign governments.

I find it amazing that your side, the Democrat Bolsheviks, have the audacity to allege unfairness in the trial proceedings of the Republican-led Senate, when the Republican standard for a trial is the bipartisan standard of the Bill Clinton impeachment trial in 1999. And the Republicans have even made conccessions that make it less favorable to Trump than it was toward Clinton.

Even more amazing for Democrats to allege unfairness in the Senate trial, when you consider how incredibly Democrat-partisan and unfair proeedings were a few weeks ago in the Democrat-led House!

Trump is guilty of nothing. Democrats cling to a deliberate smear of Trump, partisanly dividing the country just in a vain hope they can damage Trump and cost him a few points in the polls leading into Nov 2020. But that is already backfiring:
Gallup: 51% OF VOTERS NOW WANT IMPEACHMENT TO END
https://news.gallup.com/poll/271691/trump-approval-inches-support-impeachment-dips.aspx

At this point, I'm confident Trump will win in Nov 2020, and he will gain Republican majorities in both the House and Senate. Democrats are vicious liars, a majority of voters now see that, and based on that deceit Dems will be pounded into the dirt in Nov 2020.
Polls by the most accurate predictors of the last few elections were already predicting a clear Trump re-election a year ago. Trump's victory in 2020 is twice as assured now. Thanks Dems!

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-23 7:33 PM

The new permanent Democrat strategy: If Democrats don't win, the election as rigged.

Presidential elections in 2000, 2004, 2016.
Stacy Abrams in Georgia in 2016.
Gillum in Florida, 2016.

And ongoing.

Rep.Collins (R-GA) Talks Senate Impeachment Trial with Laura Ingraham





Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-23 9:24 PM



Trish Regan's commentary last night is quite chilling:

Trish Regan - January 22, 2020



If the lawless Bolsheviks who run the Democrat party has won both a Senate majority as well as their House majority in Nov 2018, they could have rubber-stamped an impeachment all the way through both houses without evidence, and then found a contrived reason for similarly impeaching and removing Vice President Pence, to seat a President Pelosi.

What scares me most is not the fanaticism of the Democrat leadership that is perfectly willing to do this.
What terrifies me even more is the millions of grassroots Democrats who are perfectly OK with this lawless power grab. For now, that path is blocked, but unless the Democrat leadership changes, I'm very concerned that there eventually will be a pendulum-swing to the Democrats sometime after 2024, at which point if the current fanatics run the Democrat party, they could bring to power a fanaticism to rival the French Revolution and the the subsequent Reign of Terror. If indoctrinated Democrats continue with the same level of CNN/MSNBC/Ocasio-Cortez/Maxine Waters level of zeal they currently exhibit. They not only want to gain power and do crazy stuff, they want to purge from power, and even from employment, following the future path of Black Lives Matter and Antifa perhaps even from life, anyone who disagrees with them.
And that's under the current leadership of crazies like Schumer and Pelosi. Clearly, even as hardcore nutso as they visibly are, the Ocasio-Cotez's and the Pressley's and the Hakkim Jeffries and Ilhan Omars, would lead this country on an even bolder path to destruction. And certainly, the purge and destruction of anyone who disagrees with them.

We've already seen the feelers put out for this with Lois Lerner and the IRS targeting Tea Party and grassroots conservatives to unfairly win the 2012 election.
Now we've seen the same thing on an even bolder authoritarian scale in 2016 and ongoing, using FBI, DOJ, CIA and other law enforcement to target, destroy, and run surveillance on a presidential campaign. AND THEN EVEN ON AN INAUGURATED PRESIDENT!
And despite that it doesn't get any more serious than that, millions of M E M's out there are perfectly OK with that, no problem. With the next wave of Democrats openly calling for even more violent intolerance. As I've cited already repeatedly, Democrats are already responding to those calls for intolerant escalation.

With that already in acceptance for the grassroots Democrat/Left, what is to stop the even more fanatical Democrats in Washington, if elected, from shutting down all dissenting thought and shipping us off to concentration camps. Euphemistically called "re-education centers". I seem to recall someone close to Obama having some thoughts in that direction.

Every step where Democrats react with indifference about the fanaticism in their own party, we come closer to this.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-24 4:37 AM


Jim Jordan lists four facts that will never change in impeachment probe



Since these hearings began, Democrats for all their slanders and false narrative have never been able to get past these four basic facts that prove Trump did nothing wrong.
1) the July 25th transcript proves there was no intimidation/quid pro quo/intimidation/whatever in the call.
2) President Zelensky himself has made clear over and over in videotaped news interviews there was no pressure on him from Trump.
3) The aid was witheld for about 6 or 7 weeks and was released on Sept 11th, well before the Sept 30th deadline, no interruption of aid to Ukraine. No "Ukranians dying", as liar Schiff alleges.
4) The aid was released without the press conference that Trump requested, so Ukraine was not forced to capitulate to any conditions to receive aid.

All the other posturing and hyperventilating by Democrats during the House investigation, and now Rep. Adam "piece of" Schiff bloviating on and on for endless hours during the Senate trial that no one is listening to, has presented any actual evidence of anything that challenges those facts. Just conspiracy theories, slanders, and wild speculation.

There is no case. Period. As in a court where there is insufficient evidence, Justice John Roberts should simply dismiss the case. But I guess the Democrats want to press the issue and destroy themselves, while in the process boosting Trump's poll numbers even more, pissing off voters by pressing something so factless and contrived.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-24 5:54 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Trump has been more cooperative with investigators than either the Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton white houses were. They have been extremely forthcoming with thousands of documents. They have only witheld those witnesses that they felt potentially compromise internal secrets of the White House, might compromise Trump and his inner circle's opinion of foreign leaders, and their inner strategy in dealing with foreign governments.

I find it amazing that your side, the Democrat Bolsheviks, have the audacity to allege unfairness in the trial proceedings of the Republican-led Senate, when the Republican standard for a trial is the bipartisan standard of the Bill Clinton impeachment trial in 1999. And the Republicans have even made conccessions that make it less favorable to Trump than it was toward Clinton.

Even more amazing for Democrats to allege unfairness in the Senate trial, when you consider how incredibly Democrat-partisan and unfair proeedings were a few weeks ago in the Democrat-led House!

Trump is guilty of nothing. Democrats cling to a deliberate smear of Trump, partisanly dividing the country just in a vain hope they can damage Trump and cost him a few points in the polls leading into Nov 2020. But that is already backfiring:
Gallup: 51% OF VOTERS NOW WANT IMPEACHMENT TO END
https://news.gallup.com/poll/271691/trump-approval-inches-support-impeachment-dips.aspx

At this point, I'm confident Trump will win in Nov 2020, and he will gain Republican majorities in both the House and Senate. Democrats are vicious liars, a majority of voters now see that, and based on that deceit Dems will be pounded into the dirt in Nov 2020.
Polls by the most accurate predictors of the last few elections were already predicting a clear Trump re-election a year ago. Trump's victory in 2020 is twice as assured now. Thanks Dems!



Trump is the first President to 100 percent not comply with providing documents and witnesses for an impeachment. You can lie and throw shit at the other side but that reflects on your character. According to polling about 75 percent want a fair trial that includes witnesses and documents that Trump is obstructing. If Republicans in the senate go ahead and engage in covering up for Trump I’m good with voters judging their corruption too. Looking at the midterm results and some special election results I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re back to bitching about the deficit and the rigged 2020 election when Trump and trash get tossed out on their corrupt asses.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-24 8:56 PM


Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) speaking to reporters on the Capitol steps just perfectly said:
"What Trump is being charged with 'Contempt of Congress' for, is what we used to call separation of powers"

In other words, where the President and Congress have a dispute, both sides take it to court for a legal decision on what the law says. Now with the Democrats' Bolshevik revolution, the president exercising his Constitutional right to challenge the law in court is twisted by Democrats into an alleged crime.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-24 9:18 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man


Trump is the first President to 100 percent not comply with providing documents and witnesses for an impeachment. You can lie and throw shit at the other side but that reflects on your character. According to polling about 75 percent want a fair trial that includes witnesses and documents that Trump is obstructing. If Republicans in the senate go ahead and engage in covering up for Trump I’m good with voters judging their corruption too. Looking at the midterm results and some special election results I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re back to bitching about the deficit and the rigged 2020 election when Trump and trash get tossed out on their corrupt asses.


As I just said above, Trump has disputed the Democrats' unlawful abuses, lawfully through the courts, exercising his Constitutional rights.

Further, Trump has cooperated more with House and Senate investigators than either Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton before him. He has released thousands of documents. Trump unprecedentedly released the classified transcript of his July 25th phone call with Zelensky, the leader of a foreign state! TWO phone calls with Zelensky, actually. Trump has only been uncooperative with a House investigation that was absurdly unfair, where his White House counsel was not even permitted to attend!
Rep. Adam Schiff's twisting of the facts, closed door sessions, deliberate lies and distortions of the facts, delayed release of even the transcripts of closed-door sessions, and in some casess NEVER releasing closed door transcripts to allow Trump to defend himself against kangaroo-court allegations. The entire basis for this impeachment, "the Whistleblower", a k a Eric Ciaramella, a raabid Democrat partisan CIA analyst and favored boy of the Obama administration, is still officially not identified, and so Trump is denied the ability to even know and face his accuser. AND ACCUSED OF WHAT?!? No identifiable crime. Rep Adam Schiff alleged he was unaware of the Whisleblower until his whistleblower report was submitted to the House Intelligence Committee, but in truth the Whistleblowers report was crafted FOR SEVERAL WEEKS PRIOR, and BY THE STAFF OF ADAM SCHIFF'S OFFICE! The even hand-picked whistleblower Eric Ciaramelaa's lawyer for him!

It's a lie.
It's ALL lies. And the American public now sees the Democrats' vicious deceit.

What you just said above about 75% bla bla bla is just gobbledygook propaganda I didn't even understand. I just cited and linked what the most recent poll says. According to the Gallup poll, 51% oppose Trump's impeachment and removal.

And I didn't lie. I've sourced my opinion, chapter and verse.
You have lied, trying to twist reality to conform with your rabidly anti-Trump point of view. Lying, if only to yourself.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-25 6:00 AM
Trump is trying to hide his corruption with his obstruction that you try to call a “dispute”. The founding fathers wanted checks and balances. And you were lying only to yourself (at best) when you tried shoveling the shit that Trump’s been the most cooperative when the opposite is true. He’s blocking every bit of evidence that he can. It won’t last.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-26 5:31 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Trump is trying to hide his corruption with his obstruction that you try to call a “dispute”. The founding fathers wanted checks and balances. And you were lying only to yourself (at best) when you tried shoveling the shit that Trump’s been the most cooperative when the opposite is true. He’s blocking every bit of evidence that he can. It won’t last.



A lot of insults in your remarks, but absolutely no facts.

EVERYTHING the Democrats have been saying in hearings is lying narrative. And only Democrats consumed by partisan hate believe it. Democrats say over and over" "It's beyond dispute..." as if saying that makes their lies any more true.

Answer a few questions, M E M:

1) What crime , *SPECIFICALLY*, did Donald Trump commit? There is no crime listed. I already explored that above. "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress" are not actual or specific crimes. It's total B.S. the Dems made up, because there's nothing specific Pelosi could credibly accuse Trump of.

2) Who are his accusers? Can you even name them?
And based on the fact that you CAN'T even name them, why should we believe a word they say?
They are proven Democrat partisans, who can't even pretend for the length of these impeachment proceedings the last few months to be neutral players. Ambassador Marie Jovanovich, Alexander Vindman, Fiona Hill, Bill Taylor, and the centerpiece unnamed coward "whistleblower" Eric Ciaramela, are all vocal Democrat partisans who clearly support Hillary Clinton and Obama and despise Trump. They have no credibility whatssoever.

3) What is the >>>evidence<<< against Donald Trump? You can't name it, because it's all hearsay and opinions. No facts.
I can tell you what the evidence is for Donald Trump's innocence: (A) The transcript of the July 25th phone call, and releaded previouss Trump/Zelensky phone call. and (B) Zelensky's repeated videotaped interviews, saying there was absolutely nothing in Trump's phone call that was intimidating, coercive, blackmailing, quid pro quo, or otherwise hostile.

It's all smoke and mirrors on the part of Democrats. It's a slander, a hustle, a political coup, a Democrat insurrection to try and remove Trump by any illegal and vicious means. Because they can't beat Trump by any honest means.
The beauty of it is, with all their abused federal power, and the liberal Newspeak media behind them, they are still losing to the truth.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-26 5:43 AM



Carter Page FISA warrant lacked probable cause, DOJ admits in declassified assessment


Huge news.
The Hillary supporters in FBI and DOJ deliberately and fraudulently obtained the warrants to spy on the Trump campaign and presidential administration.

The people who did this should be going to jail.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-26 6:07 AM




How the Obama White House engaged Ukraine to give Russia collusion narrative an early boost


 Quote:
by John Solomon, The Hill


As Donald Trump began his meteoric rise to the presidency, the Obama White House summoned Ukrainian authorities to Washington to coordinate ongoing anti-corruption efforts inside Russia’s most critical neighbor.
The January 2016 gathering, confirmed by multiple participants and contemporaneous memos, brought some of Ukraine’s top corruption prosecutors and investigators face to face with members of former President Obama’s National Security Council (NSC), FBI, State Department and Department of Justice (DOJ).

The agenda suggested the purpose was training and coordination. But Ukrainian participants said it didn’t take long — during the meetings and afterward — to realize the Americans’ objectives included two politically hot investigations: one that touched Vice President Joe Biden’s family and one that involved a lobbying firm linked closely to then-candidate Trump.
U.S. officials “kept talking about how important it was that all of our anti-corruption efforts be united,” said Andrii Telizhenko, then a political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington tasked with organizing the meeting.

Telizhenko, who no longer works for the Ukrainian Embassy, said U.S. officials volunteered during the meetings — one of which was held in the White House’s Old Executive Office Building — that they had an interest in reviving a closed investigation into payments to U.S. figures from Ukraine’s Russia-backed Party of Regions.
That 2014 investigation was led by the FBI and focused heavily on GOP lobbyist Paul Manafort, whose firm long had been tied to Trump through his partner and Trump pal, Roger Stone.

Agents interviewed Manafort in 2014 about whether he received undeclared payments from the party of ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, an ally of Russia’s Vladimir Putin, and whether he engaged in improper foreign lobbying.
The FBI shut down the case without charging Manafort.

Telizhenko said he couldn’t remember whether Manafort was mentioned during the January 2016 meeting. But he and other attendees recalled DOJ officials asking investigators from Ukraine’s National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU) if they could help locate new evidence about the Party of Regions’ payments and its dealings with Americans.
“It was definitely the case that led to the charges against Manafort and the leak to U.S. media during the 2016 election,” he said.

That makes the January 2016 meeting one of the earliest documented efforts to build the now-debunked Trump-Russia collusion narrative and one of the first to involve the Obama administration’s intervention.
Spokespeople for the NSC, DOJ and FBI declined to comment. A representative for former Obama national security adviser Susan Rice did not return emails seeking comment.

Nazar Kholodnytskyy, Ukraine’s chief anti-corruption prosecutor, told me he attended some but not all of the January 2016 Washington meetings and couldn’t remember the specific cases, if any, that were discussed.
But he said he soon saw evidence in Ukraine of political meddling in the U.S. election. Kholodnytskyy said the key evidence against Manafort — a ledger showing payments from the Party of Regions — was known to Ukrainian authorities since 2014 but was suddenly released in May 2016 by the U.S.-friendly NABU, after Manafort was named Trump’s campaign chairman: “Somebody kept this black ledger secret for two years and then showed it to the public and the U.S. media. It was extremely suspicious.”

Kholodnytskyy said he explicitly instructed NABU investigators who were working with American authorities not to share the ledger with the media. “Look, Manafort’s case is one of the cases that hurt me a lot,” he said.
“I ordered the detectives to give nothing to the mass media considering this case. Instead, they had broken my order and published themselves these one or two pages of this black ledger regarding Paul Manafort."

“For me it was the first call that something was going wrong and that there is some external influence in this case. And there is some other interests in this case not in the interest of the investigation and a fair trial,” he added.
Kostiantyn Kulyk, deputy head of the Ukraine prosecutor general’s international affairs office, said that, shortly after Ukrainian authorities returned from the Washington meeting, there was a clear message about helping the Americans with the Party of the Regions case.

“Yes, there was a lot of talking about needing help and then the ledger just appeared in public,” he recalled.
Kulyk said Ukrainian authorities had evidence that other Western figures, such as former Obama White House counsel Gregory Craig, also received money from Yanukovych’s party. But the Americans weren’t interested: “They just discussed Manafort. This was all and only what they wanted. Nobody else.”

Manafort joined Trump’s campaign on March 29, 2016, and then was promoted to campaign chairman on May 19, 2016.
NABU leaked the existence of the ledgers on May 29, 2016. Later that summer, it told U.S. media the ledgers showed payments to Manafort, a revelation that forced him to resign from the campaign in August 2016.

A Ukrainian court in December concluded NABU’s release of the ledger was an illegal attempt to influence the U.S. election. And a member of Ukraine’s parliament has released a recording of a NABU official saying the agency released the ledger to help Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton’s campaign.
The other case raised at the January 2016 meeting, Telizhenko said, involved Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian energy company under investigation in Ukraine for improper foreign transfers of money. At the time, Burisma allegedly was paying then-Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter as both a board member and a consultant. More than $3 million flowed from Ukraine to an American firm tied to Hunter Biden in 2014-15, bank records show.

According to Telizhenko, U.S. officials told the Ukrainians they would prefer that Kiev drop the Burisma probe and allow the FBI to take it over. The Ukrainians did not agree. But then Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to fire Ukraine’s chief prosecutor in March 2016, as I previously reported. The Burisma case was transferred to NABU, then shut down.
The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington on Thursday confirmed the Obama administration requested the meetings in January 2016, but embassy representatives attended only some of the sessions.

"Unfortunately, the Embassy of Ukraine in Washington, D.C., was not invited to join the DOJ and other law enforcement-sector meetings," it said. It said it had no record that the Party of Regions or Burisma cases came up in the meetings it did attend.
Ukraine is riddled with corruption, Russian meddling and intense political conflicts, so one must carefully consider any Ukrainian accounts.

But Telizhenko’s claim that the DOJ reopened its Manafort probe as the 2016 election ramped up is supported by the DOJ’s own documents, including communications involving Associate Attorney General Bruce Ohr, his wife, Nellie, and ex-British spy Christopher Steele.
Nellie Ohr and Steele worked in 2016 for the research firm, Fusion GPS, that was hired by Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to find Russia dirt on Trump. Steele wrote the famous dossier for Fusion that the FBI used to gain a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign. Nellie Ohr admitted to Congress that she routed Russia dirt on Trump from Fusion to the DOJ through her husband during the election.

DOJ emails show Nellie Ohr on May 30, 2016, directly alerted her husband and two DOJ prosecutors specializing in international crimes to the discovery of the “black ledger” documents that led to Manafort’s prosecution.
“Reported Trove of documents on Ukrainian Party of Regions’ Black Cashbox,” Nellie Ohr wrote to her husband and federal prosecutors Lisa Holtyn and Joseph Wheatley, attaching a news article on the announcement of NABU’s release of the documents.

Bruce Ohr and Steele worked on their own effort to get dirt on Manafort from a Russian oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, who had a soured business relationship with him. Deripaska was “almost ready to talk” to U.S. government officials regarding the money that “Manafort stole,” Bruce Ohr wrote in notes from his conversations with Steele.
The efforts eventually led to a September 2016 meeting in which the FBI asked Deripaska if he could help prove Manafort was helping Trump collude with Russia. Deripaska laughed off the notion as preposterous.

Previously, Politico reported that the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington assisted Clinton’s campaign through a DNC contractor. The Ukrainian Embassy acknowledges it got requests for assistance from the DNC staffer to find dirt on Manafort but denies it provided any improper assistance.
Now we have more concrete evidence that the larger Ukrainian government also was being pressed by the Obama administration to help build the Russia collusion narrative. And that onion is only beginning to be peeled.

But what is already confirmed by Ukrainians looks a lot more like assertive collusion with a foreign power than anything detailed in the Mueller report.

_____________________________________

John Solomon is an award-winning investigative journalist whose work over the years has exposed U.S. and FBI intelligence failures before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal scientists’ misuse of foster children and veterans in drug experiments, and numerous cases of political corruption. He serves as an investigative columnist and executive vice president for video at The Hill.
Follow him on Twitter @jsolomonReports





So... why is Trump on trial again?

It seems to me the "collusion" and abuse of federal power was all within the Obama administration, the Hillary Clinton campaign, the DNC, and their zealots in the FBI and DOJ.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-26 6:24 PM
Trump is on trial because he tried to use foreign aid for his own personal gain and than tried and is still trying to obstruct all the witness and documents showing his corruption. Unacceptable and if your party makes themselves accessories than voters should boot them out too. You can get back to bitching about the deficit again.

Abuse of power is certainly an impeachable offense. I would note Trump’s team is trying to make this argument because the facts make the case for abuse of power. And also they are continuing the obstruction by blocking testimony and evidence from people like Bolton. That’s what guilty people do. Trump originally claimed he was blocking all this evidence because the democrats controlled the House. No surprise that he lied and is still blocking all the evidence he can now that it’s a republican controlled Senate.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-27 5:18 AM
Bolton is apparently spilling the beans on Trump in his upcoming book. The stuff leaking out is damming of course. I don’t think it will make a difference in the impeachment “trial” but it might in the upcoming election.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-28 7:28 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Trump is on trial because he tried to use foreign aid for his own personal gain and than tried and is still trying to obstruct all the witness and documents showing his corruption. Unacceptable and if your party makes themselves accessories than voters should boot them out too. You can get back to bitching about the deficit again.

Abuse of power is certainly an impeachable offense. I would note Trump’s team is trying to make this argument because the facts make the case for abuse of power. And also they are continuing the obstruction by blocking testimony and evidence from people like Bolton. That’s what guilty people do. Trump originally claimed he was blocking all this evidence because the democrats controlled the House. No surprise that he lied and is still blocking all the evidence he can now that it’s a republican controlled Senate.


No, Trump is on trial because Democrats by every reliable prediction are going to get slaughtered in the Nov 2020 election, and Democrats see slandering Trump with contrived Ukraine allegations as the best long-shot chance to possibly diminish Trump's popularity enough to have a hail-Mary snowball's chance in hell of winning.

All the evidence presented is that Trump DID NOT use foreign policy for his own personal gain. Trump campaigned and won on eliminating waste and corruption in foreign aid, and has consistently done the same with multiple other nations as he has with Ukraine.

Ukraine in particular is quantifiably the third most corrupt nation on earth, and therefore warrants the extra scrutiny Trump gave it before sending aid there. Multiple officials in the Obama administration as well cited corruption there and advised caution in giving funds to Ukraine. Which gives legitimacy to everything Trump has done with Ukraine.
Trump witheld aid to Ukraine for about 7 weeks, long enough to verify that newly elected president Zelensky is the reformer he campaigned as and person of integrity, before releasing U.S. aid to Ukraine.

Trump is not trying to "hide" documents and testimony "proving his corruption". Trump is protecting presidential executive privelege, where the strategy, knowledge and opinions of Trump and his advisors could be made public, which would expose Trump's hand in dealing with foreign governments, and expose those who advise him in confidence. If all that were forcibly revealed to the public, no advisor would want to speak freely in giving the best advice to Trump or any future president, for fear their honest thoughts and advice would be exposed at a later time.

"Abuse of power" is horseshit, an indictment that lacks any specific crime, because THERE IS no crime Democrats can credibly allege.

The facts:
1) Trump's July 25th phone call, classified until Trump released it, the first time any president has released such a classified phone call, shows no coercion, no quid pro quo, no intimidation, no demands on Trump's part in exchange for aid.

2) Zelensky's repeated public and televised interviews make clear it was a very routine phone call, no coercion, no quid pro quo, no intimidation, a very friendly routine diplomatic phone call.

3) The aid to Ukraine was released Sept 11th, long before the Sept 30th deadline.

4) the aid was released without Ukraine honoring Trump's request for a Zelensky press conference announcing an aggressive campaign to weed out corruption.

5) Democrats, including Rep. Al Green, have repeatedly said that it was necessary to impeach Trump to prevent him from getting re-elected in Nov 2020, because without impeachment Trump will win. Slandering Trump with a false impeachment narrative is their only potential path to victory in November. Hence the lying impeachment narrative.

6) Democrats failed to make a case for impeachment, and rushed through a 100% partisan Democrat impeachment vote, with the partisan goal of getting it done by Christmas. They trampled on Trump's right to legal counsel in House hearings, and rejected any exculpatory evidence or witnesses that would have proven Trump's innocence. In protection of his rights, Trump did not cooperate. The Democrats rammed through impeachment anyway, along straight partisan lines, several Democrats siding with Republicans, against Pelosi. And then Pelosi sat on the articles of impeachment for a month, for partisan political reasons. Now that the House failed to make the case for impeachment that was their responsibility, they are pressuring the Senate to do what they failed to.

All the lying, all the false narrative, all the violation of Constitutional rule of law, is by the Democrats. Trump is following his constitutional rights, through the rule of law pursuing his legal rights.

Democrats are pushing impeachment, knowing it is a lie from the outset, just because they are a majority in the House and can ram it through as a majority, but knowing it is a lie, just because they can. Their vicious abuse of power, and their majority in the House, will end in November.
Voters can plainly see what House Democrats are doing, and voters are pissed off about it. Democrat have officially become the Bolshevik party, but they've overplayed their hand. And exposed, they will be driven from office.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-28 7:56 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Bolton is apparently spilling the beans on Trump in his upcoming book. The stuff leaking out is damming of course. I don’t think it will make a difference in the impeachment “trial” but it might in the upcoming election.


This is another whiff of a scandal that the Democrats and their allies in the liberal media are jumping at, like kitties on catnip. But they will be disappointed at the end, just as they've been dissappointed with every other false lead they've hyped.

Nothing has been revealed, no facts, no quotes from Bolton's forthcoming book. The leak clearly came from Bolton's staff. The book, sight-unseen, has spiked in book sales with the publicity. Do the math, it's a publicity stunt. Interesting that Alexaander Vindman's twin brother is also employed by the national security council, and iss the point man in the position to sign off on Bolton's book being OK for public release. Gee, I'm sure that's just the wildest of coincidences, no deep state alignment against Trump at all.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-29 5:04 AM
What you call nothing looks to be Bolton’s first hand account that confirms Trump withholding the foreign aid that congress passed for his own personal gain. The nation is watching what the GOP controlled Senate is doing. A trial without Bolton testifying would be a transparent sham.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-29 8:36 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
What you call nothing looks to be Bolton’s first hand account that confirms Trump withholding the foreign aid that congress passed for his own personal gain. The nation is watching what the GOP controlled Senate is doing. A trial without Bolton testifying would be a transparent sham.



\:lol\:

We all know that no matter what Bolton says, Democrats will say Republicans are suppressing evidence and witnesses. No matter what Trump or Senate Republicans concede, Democrats will always come back with the talking points that it's not enough and the Republicans need to concede even more.

Your side had months to bring forward any witnesses they wanted, to make the case you allege in the House. But the Dems rushed it through the House without evidence.
Now they're because THEY (not Republicans) didn't make the case, and are trying to blame someone else.

Your side for 3 years has jumped at every half-baked liberal media "bombshell" revelation about Trump. Ohh, this time for sure, it'll be the silver bullet that kills Donald Trump! And every time, usually in less than a week the story is revealed to be completely false, and the media in their zeal to take down Trump ran with it before confirming the story.

John Bolton has revealed nothing. NOTHING! It is way premature to say this will take down Trump. This will end for Dems the same way it has every week for 3 years...








Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-30 4:36 AM
You’re only lying to yourself at best WB. As I’ve said before more stuff will keep coming out. Trump isn’t going to be able to undue what has already leaked out of Bolton’s book. And voters will see Senate Republicans vote to have a true soviet styled trial with no witnesses.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-30 8:14 PM


 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You’re only lying to yourself at best WB. As I’ve said before more stuff will keep coming out. Trump isn’t going to be able to undue what has already leaked out of Bolton’s book. And voters will see Senate Republicans vote to have a true soviet styled trial with no witnesses.


Your constant allegation that I'm "lying" is itself a lying narrative. What I'm saying is absolutely right and supported 100% by the facts, and not "lying". The facts I've cited OVER AND OVER make clear the Democrats have no case, no evidence, absolutely none against Trump.
1) the July 25th Trump/Zelensky phone call transcript, very friendly, no pressure on Zelensky, no quid pro quo.
2) Zelensky's many post-call televised interviews where he confirms that it was a very friendly call, no pressure, no intimidation, no quid pro quo.
3) There was no interruption of aid to Ukraine, it was delayed for 7 weeks while the Trump administration verified Zelensky was not a corrupt leader giving only lip sevice to ending corruption. Aid was released Sept 11th, it was not due till Sept 30th. No delay.
4) Trump had requested (not demanded) that Zelensky do a press conference announcing a crackdown on Ukranian corruption, but U.S. aid to Ukraine was released without such a press conference occurring.

and further

5) Gordon Sondland said Trump (when Trump was asked if he was using his power to get something) angrily responded: "I don't want any quid pro quo, I just want Zelensky to do the right thing, what he promised to do."

and in the last 2 days:

6) Video of John Bolton from an August 27th interview (>>>BEFORE<<< this whole Ukraine/phone call Democrat hit-job began) where Bolton mentioned both calls and said of the July 25th call "It was a very friendly call" almost exactly what Trump himself has been saying since the biginning.
So even if Bolton said something negative about Trump/Ukraine now, it would be in contradiction of what he clearly said before. Bolton since then is clearly a disgruntled ex-employee who was fired by Trump, with a grudge motive to hurt Trump politically.


It's over, M E M. Impeachment failed to produce evidence in the House hearings, and House Democrats further wrecked their credibility by rushing a partisan impeachment vote in the House before Christmas without even bothering to do a proper investigation (in contrast to the 3 weeks of Dems' House impeachment, Republicans impeaching Clinton took a year in their House investigation, doing a proper and thorough investigation). And House Democrats are whining that the Senate should now do the proper investigation that the House failed to do!

There's no evidence. There's no case.
And every day the Democrats push this false narrative is another day their numbers drop in the polls. 51% polled now oppose impeachment. The only reason Democrats had support for impeachment in Nov-Dec 2019 is because Dems temporarily controlled a false narrative with selective leaks from closed-door hearings. Once the full and true evidence began to come out, the Democrats have been losing support for impeachment.

The Democrat leadership knows pushing impeachment is killing them. I've seen multiple reports that hearings could end as soon as Friday or Saturday. Tomorrow!

It's over.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-30 8:32 PM


RFE/RL's Full Interview With U.S. National-Security Adviser John Bolton On Iran, Ukraine, and Russia - August 27, 2019



At 1:30 in the interview.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-30 8:49 PM



And by the way, your side prevented Republicans from attending closed-door hearings with their 18 witnesses. Republicans were deprived of seeing their first-hand testimony and body language. And were only given transcripts of testimony after-the-fact. And in some cases incomplete transcripts. In the case of intelligence community inspector general (I C IG) Michael Atkinson, the transcript of his testimony was never provided to Republicans. What are the Demcorats hiding?

After selectively leaking closed-door testimony they thought advantageous to the Democrat side, they have done their damnedest to hide anything advantageous exculpatory to Trump and the Republicans.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 6:23 AM
They allowed republicans that were on those committee’s to be there and ask questions. They did not allow republicans to derail the hearings, and that is what they tried to do. We’ve been through that before so repeating purposely deceitful things like that accomplishes what exactly for you? Do you need to repeat the one sided trump talking points for yourself? The leaked stuff from Bolton’s book is clearly not nothing as you say. We know that not only from the leaks but Trump’s responses and Bolton not denying any of it. I don’t think Bolton is a magic bullet that will take Trump down in this impeachment “trial” but even if you don’t want acknowledge it Bolton is very much a first hand account on this. Not having him testify is a blatant cover up. Yeah Trump supporters don’t care, I get it. It is my hope that the rest of the nation does and vote the corruption out.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 11:21 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
They allowed republicans that were on those committee’s to be there and ask questions. They did not allow republicans to derail the hearings, and that is what they tried to do. We’ve been through that before so repeating purposely deceitful things like that accomplishes what exactly for you? Do you need to repeat the one sided trump talking points for yourself? The leaked stuff from Bolton’s book is clearly not nothing as you say. We know that not only from the leaks but Trump’s responses and Bolton not denying any of it. I don’t think Bolton is a magic bullet that will take Trump down in this impeachment “trial” but even if you don’t want acknowledge it Bolton is very much a first hand account on this. Not having him testify is a blatant cover up. Yeah Trump supporters don’t care, I get it. It is my hope that the rest of the nation does and vote the corruption out.



No, what you're saying is complete horseshit.
Republicans were NOT allowed to attend the closed-door hearings, and then had to wait several weeks in many cases to be forwarded the transcripts of testimony from the Dems.
And in the case of intelligence community inspector general (I C IG) Michael Atkinson, Republicans are still waiting for the transcript of his testimony. One can only assume there's something in that closed-door testimony that Schiff and the Democrats don't want Republicans to know.

Further (as I detailed earlier in the topic) the lying sack of shit that answers when called Adam Schiff unquestionably lied when asked about his knowledge of the whistleblower (a k a CIA analyst and former White House NSC staffer Eric Ciaramella).
Schiff lied and said no. It turns out Ciaramella went to Schiff's office for advice, and staffers in Schiff's office spent three weeks assisting Ciaramella in DRAFTING his whistleblower report! So it's an absolute lie that the first time Schiff heard about the report is when it was submitted.
Further, Rep. Schiff's office, if not Schiff himself, hand-picked Ciaramella's attorney for him and sent him to the attorney's office!
And finally, in the months leading up to the whistleblower/Ukraine report going public, Schiff's office hired TWO liberaal Democrat partisan members of the White House NSC staff, who worked closely with Eric Ciaramella and Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, in the months leading up to the whistleblower report release! And they're all buddies!

Lo and behold, what an incredible set of coincidences!!
And sure, these folks would never never EVER engage in partisan Democrat scheming to benefit the Democrats...

LISA PAGE: Trump isn't going to be president, right? RIGHT?!?
PETER STRZOK: No. No, he won't. We will stop it.


Nope, not a chance...
And I'm the liar?
Seriously, M E M, what are you smoking?

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 3:26 PM
“2020
Fact check: White House counsel falsely claims Republicans weren’t allowed into closed hearings
From CNN's Daniel Dale
Calling the House’s impeachment inquiry unfair to the President, White House counsel Pat Cipollone made a false claim about the closed-door House committee hearings at which witnesses were initially questioned.

The hearings were held in a secure room known as a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or “SCIF.”

“Not even Mr. Schiff's Republican colleagues were allowed into the SCIF,” Cipollone said, referring to House Intelligence Committee chairman Rep. Adam Schiff, who is also the Democrats’ lead impeachment manager.

Facts First: As Schiff noted in his response to Cipollone, the 48 Republican members of the three committees holding the closed-door hearings — Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Oversight — were indeed allowed into the SCIF, and they were given equal time to question witnesses.

Schiff said he would not suggest “Mr. Cipollone would deliberately make a false statement,” but he said, “I will tell you this: He's mistaken. He's mistaken." He added that Republicans were not only allowed in but “more than that: they got the same time we did."

Cipollone might have been referring to an October stunt in which Republicans who were not members of any of the three committees, along with some Republicans who were members, stormed the room to make a political point; the non-members were not allowed to be there, and they eventually left after causing a delay. But the members were allowed to be full participants in the proceedings.”

This isn’t secret Or new info WB. You just keep pushing the lies though
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 8:39 PM



Fact Checker: SCHIFF'S FALSE CLAIM HIS COMMITTEE HAD NOT SPOKEN TO WHISTLEBLOWER
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 8:43 PM



The Hill: Washington Post "Fact Checker" GIVES ADAM SCHIFF FOUR PINNOCHIOS FOR WHISTLEBLOWER REMARK
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 8:46 PM



Seattle Times: Schiff’s 4-Pinocchio claim that his committee had not spoken to the whistleblower
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 9:41 PM



House Republicans demand transparency from Democrats' impeachment inquiry

Traanscribed from Fox News' 6PM Special Report evening news panel discussion, Oct 23, 2019:

 Quote:
REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA.: Behind those doors they intend to overturn the results of an American presidential election. We want to know what's going on.

REP. TED LIEU, D-CALIF.: They are trying to be disruptive because the facts are not on their side. The law is not on their side.

REP. MARK MEADOWS, R-N.C.: The fundamental question is a question of fairness, and especially on the most important vote that many members will take.



REP. ERIC SWALWELL, D-CALIF.: They are doing this because this is what the guilty do. Innocent people cooperate with investigations. Innocent people follow the rules of the House. People who are doing this are clearly doing it at the behest of the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, ANCHOR: Dramatic images up on Capitol Hill today as House Republicans, I guess, took the advice of President Trump and decided to step up, and in this case tried to get into a hearing where there was a deposition of a deputy assistant secretary of defense, Laura Cooper, first career official to testify from the Pentagon. The DOD had tried to block Cooper from appearing before the deposition. The House Intel Committee issued a subpoena. She complied to testify. She had assumed responsibility for policy concerning Russia, Ukraine, Eurasia, and western Balkans.

But the scene was these Republicans storming in, causing a big scene on Capitol Hill today. Let's bring in our panel, "Washington Post" columnist Marc Thiessen, Mara Liasson, national political correspondent for National Public Radio, Susan Ferrechio, Chief Congressional Correspondent for the "Washington Examiner," and Steve Hayes, editor of "The Dispatch."

Susan, first to you. The scene today kind of a little different up on Capitol Hill.

SUSAN FERRECHIO, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER": Right, although I will argue the case here that there has been building discontent. I'm not sure Trump is really behind all this. Republicans have become increasingly frustrated with being shut out of the process. Today you had a witness testify about spending security aid, an employee of the Defense Department, the assistant secretary, yet members of the Armed Service Committee were not in there. In fact they don't have access to the transcripts in this instance.

Now, this was a deposition, so the Democrats argue all depositions are handled this way. But the overarching argument against that is this is about the impeachment of the president of the United States. So you pull back the scope a little bit and look at it and say, why shouldn't this be open to the press? Why shouldn't it be open to the public? That is the case Republicans are making today, and they have been getting increasingly upset about it as the weeks have gone on and witness after witness has come and gone from the Capitol without any of them hearing it.

BAIER: What about that argument, Marc? Is that a powerful argument for Republicans to make? It's a process argument that is made in Washington, but there is substance that is being leaked out, but we are not really seeing the Q and A part of some of these depositions.

MARC THIESSEN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Americans care about fairness, so if the process is not fair, then of course it's an effective argument. Swalwell was just quoted on your show saying that guilty people don't behave this way. People who are interested in an impartial investigation aimed at finding the truth don't behave the way the Democrats are doing. And just in that example, the room they were storming the room was a SCIF, a secure compartmented facility that is designed for accepting classified information. Yesterday Bill Taylor testified there, and his testimony was leaked as cell phone photographs of his testimony out of this secure compartmented facility. It's ridiculous.

And on top of that, the Democrats criticized Donald Trump for putting the Zelensky transcript on a secure server that was reserved for highly classified information, yet they are using a secure compartmented facility to prevent people from being able to get access to the information that is being given in the deposition. It is total hypocrisy.

BAIER: Which is unclassified, we should point out.

THIESSEN: Yes, most of it is not classified. So why are they doing it in a SCIF? Have it in a hearing room.



In other words, House Democrats keep "secure" what they don't want known with closed-door testimony. And then they leak what is advantageous to Dems to their pals in the media, despite that it was in closed-door SCIF testimony!
And as I said, this testimony was back in October, and the transcript from intelligence community inspector general (I C I G) Michael Atkinson's testimony has >>>STILL<<< not been released to Republicans. Clearly revealing something behind closed doors the Democrats don't want Republicans to know.

The highlighted portions are by a Washington Exaaminer news reporter. It is and was common knowledge that Republican committee members were not permitted to hear testimony firsthand, and had to wait for transcripts long after.
Rep Lee Zeldin (R-NY) said that even when the transcripts were given to him 2 or 3 weeks later, they were incomplete, and he was deprived of being able to see the witnesses and observe their body language during questions firsthand.

Whatever liberal-controlled "Factcheck" and "Politifact" sites allege, it was and is common knowledge that Republican House members were excluded from testimony, and had to wait for testimony transcripts, usually several weeks after the actual closed-door testimony of witnesses. And in the case of Atkinsson's testimony, never received at all.

My point is that there was a very tight lid on Republican access to firsthand testimony, where Democrats would only permit them to read testimony in transcripts after-the-fact. If they were permitted to read testimony before transcripts were given them weeks later, they would have to go in a special room with a Democrat standing with them watching them all the time. Even in cases where Judiciary committee member Republicans were permitted to attend they could not take notes, and Republican committee members of related committees like the Armed Services committee were not allowed to enter the SCIF and watch testimony.
EVEN AS DEMOCRATS WERE ABLE TO LEAK ANYTHING THEY WANTED KNOWN, TO REPORTERS WAITING EAGERLY OUTSIDE FOR PRECISELY THAT PURPOSE!

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-01-31 10:55 PM


THE TOP 8 REASONS TRUMP ALREADY WON THE IMPEACHMENT BATTLE
Whether the senators put the trial out of its misery this week or drag it on for months, the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Here are the eight big reasons Trump won impeachment.


 Quote:
by Mollie Hemingway, The Federalist
January 30, 2020


President Donald Trump will not be removed from office following his impeachment by the House of Representatives and a trial in the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has reportedly told colleagues they have the votes to finish things this week.

Whether the senators put the trial out of its misery this week or drag it on for months, the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Here are the eight big reasons why Trump won impeachment.


1. Trump Didn’t Commit An Impeachable Offense

It’s an obvious point, but the most important point.

Impeaching President Trump has been the stated goal of the Resistance since his inauguration. The main effort toward impeachment was through the investigation of a false and dangerous theory of treasonous collusion with Russia to steal the 2016 election.

Even with a limitless special counsel appointed to achieve that end, the Russia collusion hoax ended with not a single American found to have colluded with Russia, not to mention anyone close to Trump, or Trump himself. A mini-effort to get impeachment going — on the special counsel’s murky near-findings that Trump had objected too strenuously to being falsely accused of treason — also fell apart.

Other impeachment efforts for, among other things, mean tweets, went nowhere. With time running out, the Resistance cobbled together what was always a weak theory regarding a phone call with the Ukrainian president.

At first the alleged crime was supposed to be a campaign finance violation, then bribery, then extortion. It ended with two articles of impeachment, neither of an actual crime, and one [ contempt of Congress ] a more or less laughable claim that the president can’t use courts to defend his rights.

The other was a complicated argument regarding abuse of power that required not just hiding all exonerating evidence but the worst possible construction on what remained. It was such a weak argument that not a single Republican in the House fell for it and three Democrats declined to go along with their own party.

The range of opinion outside the Resistance about the phone call between world leaders ranges from it being, in Trump’s words, “perfect” to merely good or fine to not good. Resistance members tried to put forth the claim that the call was none of these things but impeachably bad. Even with the help of a compliant media, there is simply not enough consensus around this extreme viewpoint to justify even censure, much less bipartisan agreement toward impeachment, much less a removal from office.

Trump’s avoidance of a crime or any real break with public trust is the single biggest factor in his acquittal.


2. Terrible Decision-Making By House Democrats

With a histrionic media and political base spending the last few years demanding impeachment, House Democrats surely had hoped that President Trump would do something justifying an impeachment inquiry. They undoubtedly were not pleased when the best they had to work with was Trump asking for help investigating Ukraine’s known 2016 election meddling or investigation into Biden family corruption in Ukraine.

So they started with a weak hand. But they failed to follow a good process. They didn’t have the House authorize an impeachment inquiry until late in the process. This decision made it unlikely that the many early subpoenas they sought would be deemed valid by a court of law if contested.

They refused to have courts validate their subpoenas, refused to let the GOP call their own witnesses, and suppressed information that was not helpful to their impeachment cause. Of the 78 days of the impeachment proceedings, they denied the president any right to counsel or due process for 71 days of them.

In general, the procedure was rushed and information that could have helped them seem more credible was never sought or acquired.



3. Democrats Failed to Get a Single Republican on Board Their Impeachment Scheme

It is nothing short of amazing that not a single Republican member of Congress joined with Democrats in their impeachment effort. There are plenty of Republican members who either dislike or even loathe the president. But even they didn’t find the impeachment to be credible.

The Resistance was also failed by its NeverTrump wing. That wing had pushed Justin Amash to dramatically leave the Republican Party earlier last year. He published his op-ed as to why and promptly lost any sway with anyone other than the tiny NeverTrump movement.

NeverTrump has long demonstrated trouble with strategic thinking and impulse control, so following their advice and leaving the party in a snit was an unforced error. Had Amash stayed with the party, the Resistance in the media and Democratic Party would have been able to make much more use of him.



4. Inexplicable 1-Month Delay In Sending Impeachment to the Senate

A main argument in favor of impeaching President Trump was that the situation, whatever it was supposed to be that day, was so dire that it required his immediate removal from office. The House Democrats couldn’t afford to wait a matter of months until a new election would be held and Americans could decide whether the “perfect” phone call was in fact so bad that it required the first removal from office of an American president in history.

Impeachment and removal had to happen immediately, they claimed. But then after voting to impeach the president, perhaps sensing the problems caused by a weak case and hoping for more information to come to light, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi inexplicably sat on the articles for a month. It killed whatever momentum the Resistance had and made a mockery of the whole process.



5. The Defense Team Was Amazing

Instead of turning things over to the effective Republicans who had handled the impeachment process so well on the House side, President Trump instead opted to put together a powerhouse collection of attorneys uniquely suited to address an audience of senators and the American people.

Even among their class of politicians, senators have an extremely high view of themselves and their office. Every senator’s ego must be stroked. They don’t want to feel upstaged, spoken down to, or lectured.

Patrick Philbin, Trump’s deputy general counsel, exemplified the defense team’s deliberate choice to put in front of senators someone who had encyclopedic knowledge of the law and this particular case, someone not there to make a name for himself. Philbin’s humble and bookish demeanor was neither bombastic nor flamboyant as he calmly explained the facts of the case and their significance. The other members of the team were also well chosen to argue their points.



6. Grating and Juvenile House Managers

By contrast, House Democrats picked impeachment managers who seemed perfectly calibrated to annoy and grate on those handful of senators whose votes were up for grabs. Reps. Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler were the leaders of a group that repeated their highly partisan talking points and used hyperbolic and loaded language. The media loved it, but it went over like a lead balloon with the non-Resistance senators.

The House Democrats accused senators of being cowards who were complicit in a cover-up. They suggested that the senators were unable to vote properly because President Trump would put their heads on pikes if they didn’t vote to acquit. They refused to answer specific and direct questions about whether the whistleblower worked for Biden, was involved in any decisions regarding Burisma, or about his interaction with Schiff’s staff. Even the Washington Post — even the Washington Postgave Schiff four Pinocchios for lying about his staff’s secret collusion with the whistleblower.

At some point, the difference between the competent and highly skilled attorneys on the White House team and the bumbling and somewhat mediocre team of House managers was so pronounced it was almost embarrassing. It was as if one side belonged in front of the Supreme Court and the other failed to make the finals at a middle school debate tournament.



7. Kavanaugh Smear Operations No Longer Work

Along with the delay of the articles of impeachment, the House managers deployed a slow drip of supposedly damaging information. First they put Lev Parnas out as a “bombshell” witness who would bring Trump down. Parnas is indicted for various crimes and is something of a hustler and influence peddler who worked his way through Washington and supposedly had some type of negative information about Trump.

While the argument that Rudy Guiliani shouldn’t have been working with him in any way has merit, it’s a difficult argument to make while walking hand-in-hand with the same individual. Senate Minority Leader [Chuck Schumer] went so far as to invite Parnas to be his guest at the trial, which made the scene look more like a circus than a deliberative effort.

Late this week, House Foreign Affairs Chairman Eliot Engel issued a press release saying that he had been given information from a disgruntled former employee of Trump’s [John Bolton] in mid-September to look into the firing of Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, suggesting additional witnesses needed to be called. A good time to release this information — if it needed to be released, that is — would have been four months ago or during the House’s impeachment proceedings.

These tactics of deploying information late to create “bombshell” news stories are losing their effectiveness post-Kavanaugh. Republican senators — perhaps with the exception of Mitt Romney, who didn’t even learn this lesson after he was called a racist, hair-raping woman murderer during his presidential bid — are finally wising up to the operation played by the media and Democrats.



8. Media Malfeasance

The media always owned this impeachment process. Pelosi did her best to avoid impeachment but the media all but forced her into it. They championed it every step of the way and provided help, including the blocking of arguments against it.

For instance, although it’s fairly standard to name whistleblowers and to do journalism figuring out who key players are, many in the media decided to help Democrats keep from having to answer questions about his [Rep. Schiff's] role with the whistleblower. They steadfastly avoided looking into him and his motivations or how that might have affected the entire proceedings.

Each day provided evidence that the media didn’t just want Trump impeached and removed from office, but desperately wanted that. There are videos of scrums of reporters fighting with Republicans over their case, but none of them fighting with Democrats. Republican senators are hounded by reporters to pressure them to change their vote, but Democratic senators don’t receive the same treatment.

It didn’t help that in the midst of the circus, a CNN host [Don Lemon] and his panel were openly yukking it up about how Republicans are all stupid.

________________________________________


Mollie Ziegler Hemingway is a senior editor at The Federalist. She is Senior Journalism Fellow at Hillsdale College and a Fox News contributor. Follow her on Twitter at @mzhemingway




It's over.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 12:35 AM


I posted a long RealClearPolitics article on Eric Ciaramella earlier in the topic.

This article references that earlier article, and cites that multiple news sites and Republican Senate members, Republican House members, and multiple Trump officials have linked and reposted that RealClearPolitics article.

This heavy.com article expands on what was known at the time of the RealClearPolitics Investigations article, with details learned since then. Foremost of which are whistleblower/Eric Ciaramella's intricate Democrat partisan-loyalist-ideological ties, his favor in the Obama administration, his direct employment for V P Joseph Biden, his ties to Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman and the White House NSC office, and his through those contacts, to the office of Rep. Adam Schiff, WHO HELPED HIM DRAFT THE "WHISTLEBLOWER" COMPLAINT. And who even directed Ciaramella to his CIA-connected aid and Andrew Bakaj.
And then Schiff lied about that help.

Further, whistleblower/Ciaramella's "ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice".

Amazing how this "whistleblower" is tied to pretty much everyone in the intelligence community.
And in particular, to everyone who plotted and unleashed the disproven Trump/Russia "collusion" narrative!

ERIC CIARAMELLA: 5 FAST FACTS YOU NEED TO KNOW



Everyone realizes that if the whistleblower were beneficial to Trump or any Republican, liberal media reporters would expose his true identity within a day.
But because the false narrative hurts Trump and the Republicans as long as the true facts remain unknown, these same reporters are protecting Ciaramella's identity, under some nonexistent code of liberal journalistic ethics, to keep the lying narrative alive, leaving "the whistleblower" with some degree of plausible credibility to undermine Trump. Once Ciaramella's liberal ideology and partisanship are made known, that credibility will be gone.

As we've seen many times, no such "honor" or protection of journalistic ethics exists for sources that expose conservatives. Republicans know that they can't speak to reporters in confidence or "off the record" anymore. That protection only exists for Democrats.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 3:07 AM



Senate Votes 51-49 to Not See Further Witnesses in Senate Hearings. Final Vote to End Senate Impeachment Hearings Expected Wednesday.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 3:54 AM
First impeachment trial that didn’t have witnesses. It was pretty much a given that republicans would use their majority to shield Trump’s corruption so no surprise that they didn’t want Bolton or others to testify. What an obvious sham. And you might not want to think about it but all that evidence and testimony will continue to come out. The sham trial may be ending soon but you would be very naive to think it’s far from over.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 4:28 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy



House Republicans demand transparency from Democrats' impeachment inquiry

Traanscribed from Fox News' 6PM Special Report evening news panel discussion, Oct 23, 2019:

 Quote:
REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA.: Behind those doors they intend to overturn the results of an American presidential election. We want to know what's going on.

REP. TED LIEU, D-CALIF.: They are trying to be disruptive because the facts are not on their side. The law is not on their side.

REP. MARK MEADOWS, R-N.C.: The fundamental question is a question of fairness, and especially on the most important vote that many members will take.



REP. ERIC SWALWELL, D-CALIF.: They are doing this because this is what the guilty do. Innocent people cooperate with investigations. Innocent people follow the rules of the House. People who are doing this are clearly doing it at the behest of the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, ANCHOR: Dramatic images up on Capitol Hill today as House Republicans, I guess, took the advice of President Trump and decided to step up, and in this case tried to get into a hearing where there was a deposition of a deputy assistant secretary of defense, Laura Cooper, first career official to testify from the Pentagon. The DOD had tried to block Cooper from appearing before the deposition. The House Intel Committee issued a subpoena. She complied to testify. She had assumed responsibility for policy concerning Russia, Ukraine, Eurasia, and western Balkans.

But the scene was these Republicans storming in, causing a big scene on Capitol Hill today. Let's bring in our panel, "Washington Post" columnist Marc Thiessen, Mara Liasson, national political correspondent for National Public Radio, Susan Ferrechio, Chief Congressional Correspondent for the "Washington Examiner," and Steve Hayes, editor of "The Dispatch."

Susan, first to you. The scene today kind of a little different up on Capitol Hill.

SUSAN FERRECHIO, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER": Right, although I will argue the case here that there has been building discontent. I'm not sure Trump is really behind all this. Republicans have become increasingly frustrated with being shut out of the process. Today you had a witness testify about spending security aid, an employee of the Defense Department, the assistant secretary, yet members of the Armed Service Committee were not in there. In fact they don't have access to the transcripts in this instance.

Now, this was a deposition, so the Democrats argue all depositions are handled this way. But the overarching argument against that is this is about the impeachment of the president of the United States. So you pull back the scope a little bit and look at it and say, why shouldn't this be open to the press? Why shouldn't it be open to the public? That is the case Republicans are making today, and they have been getting increasingly upset about it as the weeks have gone on and witness after witness has come and gone from the Capitol without any of them hearing it.

BAIER: What about that argument, Marc? Is that a powerful argument for Republicans to make? It's a process argument that is made in Washington, but there is substance that is being leaked out, but we are not really seeing the Q and A part of some of these depositions.

MARC THIESSEN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Americans care about fairness, so if the process is not fair, then of course it's an effective argument. Swalwell was just quoted on your show saying that guilty people don't behave this way. People who are interested in an impartial investigation aimed at finding the truth don't behave the way the Democrats are doing. And just in that example, the room they were storming the room was a SCIF, a secure compartmented facility that is designed for accepting classified information. Yesterday Bill Taylor testified there, and his testimony was leaked as cell phone photographs of his testimony out of this secure compartmented facility. It's ridiculous.

And on top of that, the Democrats criticized Donald Trump for putting the Zelensky transcript on a secure server that was reserved for highly classified information, yet they are using a secure compartmented facility to prevent people from being able to get access to the information that is being given in the deposition. It is total hypocrisy.

BAIER: Which is unclassified, we should point out.

THIESSEN: Yes, most of it is not classified. So why are they doing it in a SCIF? Have it in a hearing room.



In other words, House Democrats keep "secure" what they don't want known with closed-door testimony. And then they leak what is advantageous to Dems to their pals in the media, despite that it was in closed-door SCIF testimony!
And as I said, this testimony was back in October, and the transcript from intelligence community inspector general (I C I G) Michael Atkinson's testimony has >>>STILL<<< not been released to Republicans. Clearly revealing something behind closed doors the Democrats don't want Republicans to know.

The highlighted portions are by a Washington Exaaminer news reporter. It is and was common knowledge that Republican committee members were not permitted to hear testimony firsthand, and had to wait for transcripts long after.
Rep Lee Zeldin (R-NY) said that even when the transcripts were given to him 2 or 3 weeks later, they were incomplete, and he was deprived of being able to see the witnesses and observe their body language during questions firsthand.

Whatever liberal-controlled "Factcheck" and "Politifact" sites allege, it was and is common knowledge that Republican House members were excluded from testimony, and had to wait for testimony transcripts, usually several weeks after the actual closed-door testimony of witnesses. And in the case of Atkinsson's testimony, never received at all.

My point is that there was a very tight lid on Republican access to firsthand testimony, where Democrats would only permit them to read testimony in transcripts after-the-fact. If they were permitted to read testimony before transcripts were given them weeks later, they would have to go in a special room with a Democrat standing with them watching them all the time. Even in cases where Judiciary committee member Republicans were permitted to attend they could not take notes, and Republican committee members of related committees like the Armed Services committee were not allowed to enter the SCIF and watch testimony.
EVEN AS DEMOCRATS WERE ABLE TO LEAK ANYTHING THEY WANTED KNOWN, TO REPORTERS WAITING EAGERLY OUTSIDE FOR PRECISELY THAT PURPOSE!



But republicans on those 3 committees were allowed to attend the hearings and ask questions. In fact the transcripts show they were asking almost the same amount of questions. Yes democrats didn’t allow the republicans to run the hearings off the rails. That didn’t stop republicans from trying and now even in the senate trial republicans kept witnesses from testifying. One republican’s reasoning was that the House actually proved their charges against Trump and didn’t need to hear anymore. He will vote to acquit though.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 8:36 PM
 Quote:
First impeachment trial that didn’t have witnesses. It was pretty much a given that republicans would use their majority to shield Trump’s corruption so no surprise that they didn’t want Bolton or others to testify.


Too bad the search function only goes back nine years. It would be fun to read what MEM thought of Bolton's penchant for honesty during the Bush administration.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 9:31 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
First impeachment trial that didn’t have witnesses. It was pretty much a given that republicans would use their majority to shield Trump’s corruption so no surprise that they didn’t want Bolton or others to testify. What an obvious sham. And you might not want to think about it but all that evidence and testimony will continue to come out. The sham trial may be ending soon but you would be very naive to think it’s far from over.


Now who's lying, M E M?

In the Clinton impeachment, the Republican-majority House conducted impeachment hearings for a year and certainly had testimony from a number of witnesses. When it was handed over to the Senate, there were no further witnesses.
Just like Senate hearings for Trump impeachment. The simple fact is, the Democrats were in such a rush to impeach Trump, for P.R./lying narrative reasons, that House Democrats didn't do their job and build a case for impeachment! And even if they spent a year like in the Clinton case, there just isn't evidence of anything Trump did wrong. If it existed, the Democrat partisans of the Mueller team, with unlimited authority and funding to investigate, would have found it.

A review:

Richard Nixon impeachment: A special investigation found Nixon guilty of ACTUAL CRIMES.

Bill Clinton impeachment: A special investigation found Clinton guilty of ACTUAL CRIMES.

Donald Trump: A special investigation found Trump guilty of NO CRIMES, NONE!
And that is where it should have ended. But for pure slanderous narrative reasons, Democrats pushed impeachment without evidence. And Democrats, just because they have a majority and could do it, corruptly rubber-stamped an impeachment in the House. And then Pelosi self-consciously clung to the vote and wouldn't give it to the Senate, KNOWING they hadn't made a case for impeachment. And even the "articles of impeachment" were bogus charges, not actual crimes.

If the Republican Senate majority agreed to see another hundred witnesses, or even a thousand witnesses, Democrats would still say the Republicans are corrupt and hiding the truth. No matter what the evidence.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 9:34 PM
I wasn’t ever a Bolton fan but he doesn’t strike me as somebody who would tell big lies to sell books. And unlike Trump he’s volunteered to testify under oath. Does it seem odd to you that everyone that has been willing to testify under oath have a similar story that Trump withheld the foreign aid for his own benefit? Did you ever think Bolton was dishonest?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-01 9:45 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
First impeachment trial that didn’t have witnesses. It was pretty much a given that republicans would use their majority to shield Trump’s corruption so no surprise that they didn’t want Bolton or others to testify. What an obvious sham. And you might not want to think about it but all that evidence and testimony will continue to come out. The sham trial may be ending soon but you would be very naive to think it’s far from over.


Now who's lying, M E M?

In the Clinton impeaachment, the Republican-majority House conducted impeachment hearings for a year and certainly had testimony from a number of witnesses. When it was handed over to the Senate, there were no further witnesses. Just like Senate hearings for Trump impeachment. The simple fact is, the Democrats were in such a rush to impeach Trump, for P.R./lying narrative reasons, that House Democrats didn't do their job!

A review:

Richard Nixon impeachment: A special investigation found Nixon guilty of ACTUAL CRIMES.

Bill Clinton impeachment: A special investigation found Clinton guilty of ACTUAL CRIMES.

Donald Trump: A special investigation found Trump guilty of NO CRIMES, NONE!
And that is where it should have ended. But for pure slanderous narrative reasons, Democrats pushed impeachment without evidence. And Democrats, just because they have a majority and could do it, corruptly rubber-stamped an impeachment in the House. And then Pelosi self-consciously clung to the vote and wouldn't give it to the Senate, KNOWING they hadn't made a case for impeachment. And even the "articles of impeachment" were bogus charges, not actual crimes.

If the Republican Senate majority agreed to see another hundred witnesses, or even a thousand witnesses, Democrats would still say the Republicans are corrupt and hiding the truth. No matter what the evidence.



Republicans just voted yesterday to block witnesses so it’s a fact WB that Republicans kept witnesses out for the first time. Clinton and Nixon both had them. Furthermore given what has leaked out from Bolton’s book, republicans blocked some pretty damning evidence. In the short term your party managed to shield a corrupt president. Long term I think there might be a big price to pay.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-02 4:37 AM
I see Rubio also went with Trump being guilty but was voting against witnesses and for acquittal.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-02 11:10 PM


It's so frustrating with you and the Dems, M E M, because you want to imprison Trump and throw away the key for the slightest ambiguity in a July 25th phone cal.
And yet simultaneously, you want to look the other way and not even investigate, let alone convict, Democrats for crimes that are 100 times worse and more obvious.

Joseph Biden, pimping his son to the Ukranians and the Chinese, getting him a job for which Hunter Biden (just dishonorably disscharged from the military for smoking crack) was infinitely unqualified. That's on top of similar unqualified high-paying jobs for MBNA and Amtrak, who at the time were large donors and beneficiaries from then-Senator Joseph Biden (a k a, "the Senator from MBNA").

Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server, that compromised U.S. national security every day she was secretary of state.
This you have no problem with.

Hillary Clinton and her staff deleting and bleachbitting 33,000 self-incriminating emails, and smashing computers, and smashing cel-phones, that were ALL supoenaed by the FBI and House/Senate investigators at the time, for several months. Michael Cohen and Michael Flynn and Roger Stone the FBI seized at gunpoint to allegedly prevent them from destroying evidence, with more armed officers than were used to kill Bin Laden. But Hillary and her corrupt staff were given free reign for months to destroy tens of thousands of documents.
This you have no problem with.

The Clinton Foundation making hundreds of millions of dollars in donations from hostile and brutal rogue nations, taking huge donations in exchange for selling them access and cooperation from Hillary Clinton's U.S. state department.
This you have no problem with.

Hillary Clinton while secretary of state ignoring multiple pleas for months from Benghazi state department staff, begging her for more security. Despite two bombing attempts in those months, one of them leaving a huge 6-foot wide hole in the perimiter wall around the embassy.
This you have no problem with.

And then Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration lying to cover up that negligence, that got four Benghazi embassy and CIA staffers killed. And if for CIA military staffers didn't disobey orders to stand down and instead AGAINST ORDERS staged a rescue, that death total would have included the 40 embassy staff that they rescued, rescuing them at the cost of their own lives. No thanks to Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration. WE STILL HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHERE HILLARY CLINTON OR OBAMA WERE THE DURING THE HOURS OF THE BENGHAZI ATTACK. In any case, they sat on their hands and did nothing to save those at the Benghazi embassy. AND THEN MADE UP A FAKE NARRATIVE THAT THEY TOLD FOR 6 WEEKS, THAT IT WASN'T AN AL QAIDA ATTACK, WHEN THEY KNEW IT TRULY WAS. We know this now, AFTER THE 2012 ELECTION, only because of Hillary Clinton's e-mails to the Libyan government and to daughter Chelsea Clinton that clearly said it was an Al Qaida attack.
But they lied to narrowly win the 2012 election.
And got a lot of people killed.
This you have no problem with.

But when Donald Trump makes a July 25th phone call with the Ukranian president, and in a friendly way asks Zelensky to cooperate in sharing documentation of corruption of Burisma and Hunter Biden, who multiple officials in the preceding Obama government had warned and raised flags about, corruption that Trump was perfectly within his presidential power to investigate... this you have a problem with. Whereas none of the other stuff you think even warrants investigation.

And despite every partisan attempt of your Bolshevik party in the last 3-plus years to abuse state power and rig every investigation, Trump has been found not guilty, because he did nothing wrong.

For me, justice will only be served when the Bolsheviks who rigged the investigation and tried to slander and destroy Trump are brought to justice, and THEMSELVES go to jail:

Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.
James Comey.
Andrew McCabe.
Bruce and Nellie Ohr.
John Brennan.
James Clapper.
Eric Ciaramella.
And maany others in FBI and DOJ.

And for their part in ACTUAL purchase of information from foreign governments, including from 2 Russian intelligence chiefs, Hillary Clinton and multiple members of her campaign staff and the DNC, who paid millions to foreign officiaals through Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele.

And for orchestrating abuse by FBI, CIA and other branches of government to issue multiple falsely obtained FISA warrants, and infiltrating/entrapping/planting bait for Trump officials, Barack Obama and several of his chief advisors who sat in on the meetings with FBI and CIA officials, surveillance of a presidential campaign that only a president could approve, should go to jail. They were briefed and gave approval all along.
(LISA PAGE, text to Strzok: "POTUS wants to know everything we are working on." )

To jail.

These are the people who staged a coup against an elected president, and have engaged in illegitimate scheme after illegitimate scheme (deliberately sabotaging the FBI Hillary Clinton e-mails investigation, opening a 10-month FBI investigation of Trump based on deliberately false evidence just to hurt his campaign, deliberately falsifying illegal FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign, baiting traps with FBI-hired "assets" to smear Trump officials, leaking documents to create a Mueller special investigation by illicit means, and when those all failed manufacturing a Ukraine narrative through an anonymous "whistleblower" to open a new false narrative and investigation) ALL to remove Trump by any illicit and pseudo-legal means.

I also think Adam Schiff, for his falsifying of evidence and abusing his position, should possibly face criminal charges. To be investigated by Congress and removed from office at the very least. Devin Nunes was falsely accused and investigated for far less.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-03 12:40 AM
As I’ve noted even republican senators are saying the House proved what is being charged in the impeachment but don’t think it rises to the level of removal. I get the politics involved with blocking the witnesses to shield Trump’s corruption but it still leaves us with a very apparent sham trial. That is frustrating but I think we’ll have a better result with the upcoming election with America impeaching him by electing someone better.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-05 3:14 AM
Collins also thought trump was guilty but will vote to acquit.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 4:22 AM


And just like that, around 4:30 PM this afternoon, it was over:

Senate acquits Trump on abuse of power, obstruction of Congress charges

 Quote:
The Senate overwhelmingly acquitted President Trump on both articles of impeachment against him Wednesday afternoon following a brief trial, in a historic rejection of Democrats' claims that the president's Ukraine dealings and handling of congressional subpoenas merited his immediate removal from office.

Several Congressional Democrats, speaking to Fox News, were dejected on Capitol Hill late Wednesday, even as they said they hoped to weaponize the acquittal votes by several moderate Republicans in swing states.

"We all knew how this was going,” one senior House Democratic source told Fox News. “But everyone’s depressed. Especially because of Iowa," where the first-in-the-nation caucuses have been plagued by mismanagement.

Another Democratic source also said that impeachment “went as well as it could go.” There was significant consternation among House Democrats about heading down the impeachment road at all over the summer, Fox News is told, but Democratic leaders felt they had to get in front of the impeachment movement and embrace it – or they may have been steamrolled by the progressive wing of the party.

In the final vote, all Democratic senators supported convicting the president of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, including swing-vote moderate Sens. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., Kyrsten Sinema, D-Ariz., and Doug Jones, D-Ala.

The only party defection was on the abuse of power charge from Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, who declared hours before the final vote that Trump had engaged in as "destructive an attack on the oath of office and our Constitution as I can imagine." Romney voted not guilty on the obstruction charge.

By a final vote of 52-48 against conviction on the abuse of power charge and 53-47 against conviction on the obstruction charge, the Senate fell far short of the two-thirds, 67-vote supermajority needed to convict and remove the president. Swing-vote Republican senators -- including Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, and Lamar Alexander of Tennessee -- voted to acquit on both counts.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 4:25 AM


Best of all:

GALLUP POLL SHOWS TRUMP, GOP APPROVAL AT HIGHEST RECORDED LEVELS AMID IMPEACHMENT
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 4:31 AM
Clinton enjoyed higher approval during his impeachment
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 5:49 AM
The trial might be over but you have to know after the Bolton leaks that more evidence will keep rolling out. In the short term Trump has a reprieve thanks to his party (and it really is his) blocking evidence but that isn’t going to last. And of course his pettiness won’t allow him not to go after Romney and maybe even all the others that were at least honest about him being guilty but still voted to acquit.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 6:27 AM



NANCY PELOSI SHOULD RESIGN

 Quote:
by Jonathan Turley, editorial, in The Hill
February 5, 2020


The House has its share of infamies, great and small, real and symbolic, and has been the scene of personal infamies from brawls to canings. But the conduct of Speaker Nancy Pelosi(D-Calif.) at the State of the Union address this week will go down as a day of infamy for the chamber as an institution. It has long been a tradition for House Speakers to remain stoic and neutral in listening to the address. However, Pelosi seemed to be intent on mocking President Trump from behind his back with sophomoric facial grimaces and head shaking, culminating in her ripping up a copy of his address.

Her drop the mic moment will have a lasting impact on the House. While many will celebrate her trolling of the president, she tore up something far more important than a speech. Pelosi has shredded decades of tradition, decorum and civility that the nation could use now more than ever. The House Speaker is more than a political partisan, particularly when carrying out functions such as the State of the Union address. A president appears in the House as a guest of both chambers of Congress. The House Speaker represents not her party or herself but the entirety of the chamber. At that moment, she must transcend her own political ambitions and loyalties.

Tensions for this address were high. The House impeachment managers sat as a group in front of the president as a reminder of the ongoing trial. That can be excused as a silent but pointed message from the Democrats. Trump hardly covered himself with glory by not shaking hands with Pelosi. I also strongly disliked elements of his address which bordered on “check under your seat” moments, and the awarding of conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh with the Presidential Medal of Freedom inside the House gallery like a Mardi Gras bead toss. However, if Trump made the State of the Union look like Oprah, then Pelosi made it look like Jerry Springer.

What followed was an utter disgrace. First, Pelosi dropped the traditional greeting before the start of the address, “Members of Congress, I have the high privilege and distinct honor of presenting to you the president of the United States.” Instead, she simply announced, “Members of Congress, the president of the United States.” It was extremely petty and profoundly inappropriate. Putting aside the fact that this is not her tradition, but that of the House, it is no excuse to note that the president was impeached.

Such an indignity was not imposed on President Clinton during his own impeachment proceeding, and anyone respecting due process would note that Trump has been accused, not convicted, at this point in the constitutional process. Pelosi proceeded to repeatedly shake her head, mouth words to others, and visibly disagree with the address. It was like some distempered distracting performance art behind the president.

My revulsion over this has nothing to do with impeachment. Ten years ago, I wrote a column denouncing Supreme Court Associate Justice Samuel Alito for mouthing the words “not true” when President Obama used his address to criticize the court for its decision in the Citizens United case. I considered his response to be a disgrace and wrote a column criticizing Chief Justice John Roberts for not publicly chastising Alito for breach of tradition. Instead, Roberts seemed to defend Alito in criticizing Obama for his “very troubling” language and saying that it was unfair to criticize the court when the justices, “according to the requirements of protocol,” have “to sit there expressionless.” That was not unfair. That was being judicious.

I also wrote a column denouncing Republican Rep. Joe Wilson (S.C.), who shouted “you lie!” at Obama during his State of the Union address in 2009. Wilson should have been severely sanctioned for that breach. When I wrote those columns, I had never imagined that a House Speaker would engage in conduct far in excess of those controversies. After all, House Speakers often have been required to sit through addresses they despised from presidents of the opposing party. The House Speaker is third in line of succession to the presidency and the representative of the chamber as a whole. She is not some Sinéad O’Connor ripping up a photograph of the pope on "Saturday Night Live" while shouting aloud “fight the real enemy!”

Pelosi, like her predecessors, is supposed to remain stone-faced during the address even if the president leaves her personally enraged. Indeed, House Speakers have been the authority who kept other members in silent deference and respect, if not to the president, then to the office. However, Pelosi appeared to goad the mob, like a high schooler making mad little faces behind the school principal at an assembly. It worked, as members protested and interrupted Trump. Pelosi became another Democratic leader, little more than a twitching embodiment of this age of rage.

This is not to suggest that the House has always listened to its better angels. More than 180 years ago, a confrontation between Democratic Rep. Jonathan Cilley (Maine) and Whig Rep. William Graves (Ky.) led to a duel over what Graves viewed as a slight on the House floor. In February 1838, the two decided to meet in Maryland for a duel with rifles, and Graves killed Cilley after both missed each other twice. In response, the House quickly pushed forward antidueling legislation in Congress.

Pelosi has demolished decades of tradition with this poorly considered moment. Of course, many will celebrate her conduct and be thrilled by the insult to Trump. However, even those of us who disagree with his policies should consider what Pelosi destroyed in her moment of rage. She shredded the pretense of governing with civility and dignity in the House. Notably, she did not wait to rip up her copy of the speech until after she left the House floor. Pelosi wanted to do it at the end of the speech, in front of the camera, with the president still in the chamber.

That act was more important to Pelosi than preserving the tradition of her office. In doing so, she forfeited the right to occupy that office. If Pelosi cannot maintain the dignity and neutrality of her office at the State of the Union, she should resign as the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

___________________________________

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law for George Washington University and served as the last lead counsel during a Senate impeachment trial. He testified as a witness expert in the House Judiciary Committee hearing during the impeachment inquiry of President Trump.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 6:28 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Clinton enjoyed higher approval during his impeachment


With the wind of the 80% liberal media at his back.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 6:50 AM
Not sure what SOTU has to do with this topic? You don’t really have much credibility if you support Trump’s corruption but can’t handle some sheets of paper being torn, lol
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 6:54 AM
Props to Romney btw. I think I can still hear Trump jr crying for his head
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 6:55 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The trial might be over but you have to know after the Bolton leaks that more evidence will keep rolling out. In the short term Trump has a reprieve thanks to his party (and it really is his) blocking evidence but that isn’t going to last. And of course his pettiness won’t allow him not to go after Romney and maybe even all the others that were at least honest about him being guilty but still voted to acquit.


And you have to know that will be another Lucy-holding-the-football that will end badly for you and end in disappointment.

It was the Democrats rigging the House impeachment investigation that allowed this to fraudulently go this far. It should have been dismissed a long time ago. The American people see what is going on, and they will neuter what's left of Democrat power in the November election.

First, Michael Cohen was the silver bullet that was going to kill Trump's presidency. How did that work out?

Michael Flynn was the guy who was going to flip and destroy Trump's presidency. How did that work out?

Roger Stone, Jerome Corsi, George Papadapoulos, Carter Page, Michael Caputo, Rick Gates, Paul Manafort. All of whom Democrats and the liberal media were orgasming all over themselves anticipating these guys were going to plea bargain and expose Trump, whether "singing" or "composing".
How did those work out?

Despite that many of these former Trump staffers are still having their lives ruined by a vindictive DOJ and FBI, they never turned on Trump (except the failed effort of Michael Cohen, who tried to make stuff up to save himself and was exposed as a liar.)

Then there was the Mueller investigation. No really, this is it, THIS IS THE SILVER BULLET!! Despite being forged in Comey fraud, despite the Mueller team being made up of 17 Democrat partisans, 11 of the 17 being large Democrat/Obama/Hillary campaign donors and blatant true-believer partisan liberals, EVEN THEY could not discover or manufacture the false evidence to bring down Trump.

And when that failed, the Democrat-partisan CIA, NSC, Alex Vindman, Eric Ciaramella and the Democrat House just moved on to their next takedown scheme.
FAILED, today. AGAIN.

So, yeah... you go on believing after far greater powers going after Trump, that somehow Bolton is now the silver bullet that will bring down Trump.

Bolton is another Mitt Romney or Scaramucci, with a grudge. Trying to capitalize by smearing Trump. Bolton will feed his catnip to the liberal media, feed the rumor mill and cheap headlines for a while. But he has no substance. prepare to be disappointed.


Meanwhile, the rest of us will celebrate the most accomplished president in at least 50 years.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 7:07 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Not sure what SOTU has to do with this topic? You don’t really have much credibility if you support Trump’s corruption but can’t handle some sheets of paper being torn, lol



Because the Democrat sour grapes over the impeachment has spilled over into Pelosi's antics at the State Of The Union address.

The lack of impulse-control is an outgrowth of the vicious Bolshevik tactics they have unleashed on Trump and Republicans for much more than the 4 years they've been trying to destroy Trump. The lawlessness, slander, threat of violence, and actual violence of your Bolshevik party.

They just can't help themselves.
Or maybe that are just so drunk with power at this point that they think they can get away with it.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 7:09 AM
Does Bolton strike you as someone who would lie under oath over a grudge? And I don’t see it as magic bullets but proper oversight. It’s not like your party wanting to investigate Hillary over and over plus whoever Trump is worried about having to face in an election.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 7:11 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Props to Romney btw. I think I can still hear Trump jr crying for his head


Romney is a self-serving traitor with an axe to grind. Trump doesn't have to do anything. The voters of Utah will not re-elect Romney. He just ended what was left of his political career.

Romney wasn't right or serving any higher purpose. It was a petty vindictive act against Trump, much like McCain's vindictive vote against Obamacare. With that act Romney destroyed himself.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 7:17 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Does Bolton strike you as someone who would lie under oath over a grudge? And I don’t see it as magic bullets but proper oversight. It’s not like your party wanting to investigate Hillary over and over plus whoever Trump is worried about having to face in an election.



But he hasn't given testimony under oath, has he?
And Bolton hasn't even done interviews on any network, that indicates to me he doesn't want the truth known. It's highly suspicious that the allegation came out, with no actual quotation or cited facts, within days of the release of his book. That tells me that Bolton wanted these allegations leaked for publicity purposes, and that there have been no interviews shows he doesn't want to disclose the truth.
Also suspicious that it was liberal partisan Alexander Vindman's twin brother (ALSO employed at the NSC) who approved Bolton's book for release. One of the partisans who could have leaked its alleged contents.

And Ive seen interviews with plenty of people close to Bolton in government over the decades in that same week. A week ago he had friends, now he doesn't. That answers your question. What Bolton is doing is not honest or right.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 7:23 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Props to Romney btw. I think I can still hear Trump jr crying for his head


Romney is a self-serving traitor with an axe to grind. Trump doesn't have to do anything. The voters of Utah will not re-elect Romney. He just ended what was left of his political career.

Romney wasn't right or serving any higher purpose. It was a petty vindictive act against Trump, much like McCain's vindictive vote against Obamacare. With that act Romney destroyed himself.



Uhm how is Romney being self serving? Reading what he said about Trump’s guilt he made it pretty clear that he was going to pay for doing the right thing. Trump is well known for petty attacks even after the other person has died. Romney knows he’s probably committed political suicide but he was willing to vote his conscience.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 7:50 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Props to Romney btw. I think I can still hear Trump jr crying for his head


Romney is a self-serving traitor with an axe to grind. Trump doesn't have to do anything. The voters of Utah will not re-elect Romney. He just ended what was left of his political career.

Romney wasn't right or serving any higher purpose. It was a petty vindictive act against Trump, much like McCain's vindictive vote against Obamacare. With that act Romney destroyed himself.



Uhm how is Romney being self serving? Reading what he said about Trump’s guilt he made it pretty clear that he was going to pay for doing the right thing. Trump is well known for petty attacks even after the other person has died. Romney knows he’s probably committed political suicide but he was willing to vote his conscience.



Romney clearly has a vendetta against Trump. I think Romney did it with the arrogance that he could pull this off and still recover within 6 years and get re-elected. He won't. The blowback was way beyond what he expected. Laura Ingraham had an excellent opening editorial on it tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1tUY7Z-bI

If Romney had supported Trump initially, and now he was breaking away to "do the right thing" I'd believe it. But Romney has shived Trump in the back at every turn for 4 years.
Even after Trump interviewed him for a cabinet position!
Even after Trump, at Romney's request, flew to Utah to campaign for his Senate election! Right after winning, Romney stabbed him in the back. AGAIN.
I'm a guy who supported Romney strongly in 2012, and felt like he was a moderate who could bring both sides together. But I've seen with both Romney and McCain that no matter how moderate, Dems will demonize even the most moderate and bipartisan Republican. Right wing! Racist! Warmonger!! Evil white guy! White Privelege! Crazy! Likewise W. Bush. Likewise Trump. Any Republican president or candidate will get the same treatment. It's not just Trump. And on top of that, Romney has demonstrated his chameleonlike lack of principle. And vindictiveness toward Trump.

And once Romney has outlived his usefuness as a weapon against Trump, House/Senate Democrats and the liberal media will again turn on Romney. It will be a short honeymoon.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 10:35 AM



TOP ROMNEY ADVISOR SERVED ON BURISMA BOARD WITH HUNTER BIDEN


Hmmm...
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 3:16 PM



Lou Dobbs, Wednesday, 2-5-2020



Dobbs had some insightful commentary about Trump's impeachment ending. In his opening editorial as well as interviews with Rep. Jim Jordan, former Reagan campaign manager Ed Rollins, and Rudy Giuliani.
I always learn things watching Dobbs that aren't covered on the other channels, even Fox. Such as the stock market surged in the three days since an end to Trump's impeachment was announced. And that the trade deficit declined by 2% in the last year (the first decline in decades) down to about $616 billion. And an 18% decline in the last year in the U.S./China trade deficit, from $420 billion to 346 billion.
And Fox News being the overwhelming channel people chose to watch the Stae Of The Union address on. 37.2 million watched the address, 11.5 million watching it on Fox. 2.8 million on CNN, 2.22 million on MSDNC. So Fox had more than double the audience of the Democrat Newspeak channels combined.


Plus information on the Coronavirus epidemic.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-06 10:04 PM




Trump's State of the Union Address
Tuesday, Feb 4 2020



I waited till it was posted online.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-07 4:26 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Props to Romney btw. I think I can still hear Trump jr crying for his head


Romney is a self-serving traitor with an axe to grind. Trump doesn't have to do anything. The voters of Utah will not re-elect Romney. He just ended what was left of his political career.

Romney wasn't right or serving any higher purpose. It was a petty vindictive act against Trump, much like McCain's vindictive vote against Obamacare. With that act Romney destroyed himself.



Uhm how is Romney being self serving? Reading what he said about Trump’s guilt he made it pretty clear that he was going to pay for doing the right thing. Trump is well known for petty attacks even after the other person has died. Romney knows he’s probably committed political suicide but he was willing to vote his conscience.



Romney clearly has a vendetta against Trump. I think Romney did it with the arrogance that he could pull this off and still recover within 6 years and get re-elected. He won't. The blowback was way beyond what he expected. Laura Ingraham had an excellent opening editorial on it tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1tUY7Z-bI

If Romney had supported Trump initially, and now he was breaking away to "do the right thing" I'd believe it. But Romney has shived Trump in the back at every turn for 4 years.
Even after Trump interviewed him for a cabinet position!
Even after Trump, at Romney's request, flew to Utah to campaign for his Senate election! Right after winning, Romney stabbed him in the back. AGAIN.
I'm a guy who supported Romney strongly in 2012, and felt like he was a moderate who could bring both sides together. But I've seen with both Romney and McCain that no matter how moderate, Dems will demonize even the most moderate and bipartisan Republican. Right wing! Racist! Warmonger!! Evil white guy! White Privelege! Crazy! Likewise W. Bush. Likewise Trump. Any Republican president or candidate will get the same treatment. It's not just Trump. And on top of that, Romney has demonstrated his chameleonlike lack of principle. And vindictiveness toward Trump.

And once Romney has outlived his usefuness as a weapon against Trump, House/Senate Democrats and the liberal media will again turn on Romney. It will be a short honeymoon.


Lol, we should be like you and demonize most of the opposition and anybody like Romney that actually voted his conscience? I saw that more than a few republicans actually agree with the democrats in the House about Trump being guilty but than voted to block evidence and than to acquit Trump. And they are quiet today as he had his petty vindictive meltdown at the bipartisan prayer meeting.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-07 10:57 AM
 Originally Posted By: M E M
Lol, we should be like you and demonize most of the opposition and anybody like Romney that actually voted his conscience? I saw that more than a few republicans actually agree with the democrats in the House about Trump being guilty but than voted to block evidence and than to acquit Trump. And they are quiet today as he had his petty vindictive meltdown at the bipartisan prayer meeting.


Unlike you, I've cited specific actions and policies that make me oppose Romney and others, usually sourced and linked. I don't just hate someone blindly, I oppose them because they are proven to be bad for the country.

And the media's kneejerk gushing over Romney, because he bashes Trump and his fellow Republicans, is absolute fact as well. Compaare with past treatment of John McCain, Anthony Scaramucci, Michael Cohen, ANY REPUBLICAN who previously was demonized, the moment they turn on Trump or other Republicans, the liberal media and Democrats instantly sing their praises. Until, of course, they outlive their usefulness and behave like Republicans again. At that moment Dems and the media snap back to portraying them as evil.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 3:42 AM




VINDMAN FIRED, ESCORTED OUT OF WHITE HOUSE AFTER TRUMP ACQUITTAL


 Quote:
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, who made waves as a witness during the Trump impeachment proceedings, was fired Friday by the National Security Council and escorted off the White House grounds, Fox News has confirmed.
Vindman was on detail to the National Security Council from the Department of Defense, and it is expected he will return there. It comes just two days after President Trump was acquitted in the Senate on the impeachment charges brought by the House last year over his dealings with Ukraine.


GORDON SONDLAND RECALLED AS AMBASSADOR TO EU AFTER IMPEACHMENT TESTIMONY


In a lengthy statement, Vindman’s attorney, David Pressman, confirmed that Vindman had been escorted out of the White House on Friday.
“There is no question in the mind of any American why this man’s job is over, why this country now has one less soldier serving it at the White House,” Pressman said. “LTC Vindman was asked to leave for telling the truth. His honor, his commitment to right, frightened the powerful.”

Also Friday, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, who testified about Trump’s Ukraine dealings during the House impeachment hearings, said Friday that he had been recalled from that position.
“I was advised today that the president intends to recall me effective immediately as United States ambassador to the European Union," Sondland said.

A senior administration official also told Fox News that Vindman’s twin brother Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman has also left the National Security Council. Yevgeny Vindman was assigned to the office that vetted publications like former national security adviser John Bolton’s book – though he has said he was not involved in the vetting of the Bolton manuscript.

The news comes after reports that the White House was weighing options to dismiss Vindman from the NSC in an effort to shrink its foreign policy bureaucracy. Bloomberg reported Thursday that the White House planned to frame Vindman’s exit as part of an NSC staff downsizing, not retaliation.

Trump, when asked about the reports Friday, told reporters that he was "not happy with him."
"You think I'm supposed to be happy with him? I'm not," Trump said, adding that a decision would be made soon.

VINDMAN DOWNPLAYS MISSING BURISMA REFERENCE IN TRUMP CALL SUMMARY: 'NOT A SIGNIFICANT OMISSION'




Good. Vindman is not a "soldier" as his lawyer fronts, he's a backstabbing liberal zealot who acted as a mole in the NSC. In House hearings, Vindman openly said he leaked documents, although he would not disclose who he leaked them to.
If it were a Republican serving in Obama's White House NSC, leaking and undermining Obama, then Obama would similarly be perfectly within his rights to fire someone he could not trust. Wherever Vindman is reassigned to the military, I hope it is under an officer who hates his guts for his dissloyalty, and makes his new assignment a living hell.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 3:51 AM


FBI, warned early and often that Manafort file might be fake, used it anyway

 Quote:
by John Solomon, The Hill


When the final chapter of the Russia collusion caper is written, it is likely two seminal documents the FBI used to justify investigating Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign will turn out to be bunk.

And the behavior of FBI agents and federal prosecutors who promoted that faulty evidence may disturb us more than we now know.

The first, the Christopher Steele dossier, has received enormous attention. And the more scrutiny it receives, the more its truthfulness wanes. Its credibility has declined so much that many now openly question how the FBI used it to support a surveillance warrant against the Trump campaign in October 2016.
At its best, the Steele dossier is an “unverified and salacious” political research memo funded by Trump’s Democratic rivals. At worst, it may be Russian disinformation worthy of the “garbage” label given it by esteemed reporter Bob Woodward.

The second document, known as the “black cash ledger,” remarkably has escaped the same scrutiny, even though its emergence in Ukraine in the summer of 2016 forced Paul Manafort to resign as Trump's campaign chairman and eventually face U.S. indictment.

In search warrant affidavits, the FBI portrayed the ledger as one reason it resurrected a criminal case against Manafort that was dropped in 2014 and needed search warrants in 2017 for bank records to prove he worked for the Russian-backed Party of Regions in Ukraine.

There’s just one problem: The FBI’s public reliance on the ledger came months after the feds were warned repeatedly that the document couldn’t be trusted and likely was a fake, according to documents and more than a dozen interviews with knowledgeable sources.
For example, Ukraine’s top anticorruption prosecutor, Nazar Kholodnytsky, told me he warned the U.S. State Department’s law enforcement liaison and multiple FBI agents in late summer 2016 that Ukrainian authorities who recovered the ledger believed it likely was a fraud.

“It was not to be considered a document of Manafort. It was not authenticated. And at that time it should not be used in any way to bring accusations against anybody,” Kholodnytsky said, recalling what he told FBI agents.
Likewise, Manafort’s Ukrainian business partner Konstantin Kilimnik, a regular informer for the State Department, told the U.S. government almost immediately after The New York Times wrote about the ledger in August 2016 that the document probably was fake.

Manafort “could not have possibly taken large amounts of cash across three borders. It was always a different arrangement — payments were in wire transfers to his companies, which is not a violation,” Kilimnik wrote in an email to a senior U.S. official on Aug. 22, 2016.
He added: “I have some questions about this black cash stuff, because those published records do not make sense. The timeframe doesn’t match anything related to payments made to Manafort. … It does not match my records. All fees Manafort got were wires, not cash.”

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team and the FBI were given copies of Kilimnik’s warning, according to three sources familiar with the documents.
Submitting knowingly false or suspect evidence — whether historical or to support probable cause — in a federal court proceeding violates FBI rules and can be a crime under certain circumstances. “To establish probable cause, the affiant [the agent or lawyer who files an affidavit?] must demonstrate a basis for knowledge and belief that the facts are true,” the FBI operating manual states.
But with Manafort, the FBI and Mueller’s office did not cite the actual ledger — which would require agents to discuss their assessment of the evidence — and instead cited media reports about it. The feds assisted on one of those stories as sources.

For example, agents mentioned the ledger in an affidavit supporting a July 2017 search warrant for Manafort’s house, citing it as one of the reasons the FBI resurrected the criminal case against Manafort.
“On August 19, 2016, after public reports regarding connections between Manafort, Ukraine and Russia — including an alleged ‘black ledger’ of off-the-book payments from the Party of Regions to Manafort — Manafort left his post as chairman of the Trump Campaign,” the July 25, 2017, FBI agent’s affidavit stated.

Three months later, the FBI went further in arguing probable cause for a search warrant for Manafort’s bank records, citing a specific article about the ledger as evidence Manafort was paid to perform U.S. lobbying work for the Ukrainians.
“The April 12, 2017, Associated Press article reported that DMI [Manafort’s company] records showed at least two payments were made to DMI that correspond to payments in the 'black ledger,' ” an FBI agent wrote in a footnote to the affidavit.

There are two glaring problems with that assertion.

First, the agent failed to disclose that both FBI officials and Department of Justice (DOJ) prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, who later became Mueller’s deputy, met with those AP reporters one day before the story was published and assisted their reporting.
An FBI record of the April 11, 2017, meeting declared that the AP reporters "were advised that they appeared to have a good understanding of Manafort’s business dealings" in Ukraine.
So, essentially, the FBI cited a leak that the government had facilitated and then used it to support the black ledger evidence, even though it had been clearly warned about the document.

Secondly, the FBI was told the ledger claimed to show cash payments to Manafort when, in fact, agents had been told since 2014 that Manafort received money only by bank wires, mostly routed through the island of Cyprus, memos show.

During the 2014 investigation, Manafort and his partner Richard Gates voluntarily identified for FBI agents tens of millions of dollars they received from Ukrainian and Russian sources and the shell companies and banks that wired the money. “Gates stated that the amounts they received would match the amounts they invoiced for services. Gates added they were always paid late, and in tranches,” FBI memos I obtained show.

Liberal law professor Alan Dershowitz said FBI affidavits almost never cite news articles as evidence. “They are supposed to cite the primary evidence and not secondary evidence,” he said.
“It sounds to me like a fraud on the court, possibly a willful and deliberate fraud that should have consequences for both the court and the attorneys’ bar,” he added.

Former FBI intelligence chief Kevin Brock was less critical. He said mentioning the ledger in an affidavit for its historical relationship to Manafort’s firing and the start of the investigation might be defensible, but any effort to use the ledger to support probable cause would be “puzzling” since it clearly was not needed to strengthen either affidavit and only risked tainting the warrant. He said it could raise questions about why the special counsel believed it necessary to refer to the ledger in the probable cause narrative.

In the end, the best proof that the FBI knew the black ledger was a sham is that prosecutors never introduced it to jurors in Manafort’s trial.

Rep. Mark Meadows, a senior Republican on the House Government Oversight and Reform Committee, told me Wednesday night he is asking the Justice Department inspector general to investigate the FBI and prosecutors' handling of the Manafort warrants, including any media leaks and evidence that the government knew the black ledger was potentially unreliable or suspect evidence.

The question of whether the Mueller team should have used the ledger in search warrant affidavits before that is for the courts to decide.
But the public has a substantial interest in questioning whether, more broadly, the FBI should have sustained a Trump-Russia collusion investigation for more than two years based on the suspect Steele dossier and black ledger.

Understandably, there isn’t much public sympathy for foreign lobbyists such as Manafort. But the FBI and prosecutors should be required to play by the rules and use solid evidence when making its cases.

It does not appear to have been the prevailing practice in the Russia collusion investigation. And that should trouble us all.
______________________

John Solomon is an award-winning investigative journalist whose work over the years has exposed U.S. and FBI intelligence failures before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal scientists’ misuse of foster children and veterans in drug experiments, and numerous cases of political corruption. He serves as an investigative columnist and executive vice president for video at The Hill. Follow him on Twitter @jsolomonReports.




Everywhere you look at this conspiracy, every piece of it, is loaded to the brim with lies, distortions, and deliberately falsified "evidence" to rationalize investigation of Trump and his staff.

If Dems want to open another investigation of Trump, bring it on. He'll be at 60 or 70% in popular opinion polls by the time you're done.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 4:15 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy




VINDMAN FIRED, ESCORTED OUT OF WHITE HOUSE AFTER TRUMP ACQUITTAL


 Quote:
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, who made waves as a witness during the Trump impeachment proceedings, was fired Friday by the National Security Council and escorted off the White House grounds, Fox News has confirmed.
Vindman was on detail to the National Security Council from the Department of Defense, and it is expected he will return there. It comes just two days after President Trump was acquitted in the Senate on the impeachment charges brought by the House last year over his dealings with Ukraine.


GORDON SONDLAND RECALLED AS AMBASSADOR TO EU AFTER IMPEACHMENT TESTIMONY


In a lengthy statement, Vindman’s attorney, David Pressman, confirmed that Vindman had been escorted out of the White House on Friday.
“There is no question in the mind of any American why this man’s job is over, why this country now has one less soldier serving it at the White House,” Pressman said. “LTC Vindman was asked to leave for telling the truth. His honor, his commitment to right, frightened the powerful.”

Also Friday, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, who testified about Trump’s Ukraine dealings during the House impeachment hearings, said Friday that he had been recalled from that position.
“I was advised today that the president intends to recall me effective immediately as United States ambassador to the European Union," Sondland said.

A senior administration official also told Fox News that Vindman’s twin brother Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman has also left the National Security Council. Yevgeny Vindman was assigned to the office that vetted publications like former national security adviser John Bolton’s book – though he has said he was not involved in the vetting of the Bolton manuscript.

The news comes after reports that the White House was weighing options to dismiss Vindman from the NSC in an effort to shrink its foreign policy bureaucracy. Bloomberg reported Thursday that the White House planned to frame Vindman’s exit as part of an NSC staff downsizing, not retaliation.

Trump, when asked about the reports Friday, told reporters that he was "not happy with him."
"You think I'm supposed to be happy with him? I'm not," Trump said, adding that a decision would be made soon.

VINDMAN DOWNPLAYS MISSING BURISMA REFERENCE IN TRUMP CALL SUMMARY: 'NOT A SIGNIFICANT OMISSION'




Good. Vindman is not a "soldier" as his lawyer fronts, he's a backstabbing liberal zealot who acted as a mole in the NSC. In House hearings, Vindman openly said he leaked documents, although he would not disclose who he leaked them to.
If it were a Republican serving in Obama's White House NSC, leaking and undermining Obama, then Obama would similarly be perfectly within his rights to fire someone he could not trust. Wherever Vindman is reassigned to the military, I hope it is under an officer who hates his guts for his dissloyalty, and makes his new assignment a living hell.



Vindman is an actual hero who has risked his life and has been injured for this country. But this is a WH that considers Rush Limbaugh a true hero. What a sewer
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 4:53 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: M E M
Lol, we should be like you and demonize most of the opposition and anybody like Romney that actually voted his conscience? I saw that more than a few republicans actually agree with the democrats in the House about Trump being guilty but than voted to block evidence and than to acquit Trump. And they are quiet today as he had his petty vindictive meltdown at the bipartisan prayer meeting.


Unlike you, I've cited specific actions and policies that make me oppose Romney and others, usually sourced and linked. I don't just hate someone blindly, I oppose them because they are proven to be bad for the country.

And the media's kneejerk gushing over Romney, because he bashes Trump and his fellow Republicans, is absolute fact as well. Compaare with past treatment of John McCain, Anthony Scaramucci, Michael Cohen, ANY REPUBLICAN who previously was demonized, the moment they turn on Trump or other Republicans, the liberal media and Democrats instantly sing their praises. Until, of course, they outlive their usefulness and behave like Republicans again. At that moment Dems and the media snap back to portraying them as evil.



Trump was impeached because of his own actions. Romney is guilty of looking at Trump’s actions and instead of helping him block evidence and shield his corruption. Romney wasn’t the lone republican saying Trump’s actions were wrong btw. Trump is still attacking McCain who’s been dead a while now. It’s ridiculous to think that Romney doesn’t know he committed political suicide. Trump’s pettiness and the gop’s devotion to him insures that. Even when Trump leaves you guys bankrupted and fucked you will still hate Romney for being the friend who told you Trump was pos.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 9:07 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man

Vindman is an actual hero who has risked his life and has been injured for this country. But this is a WH that considers Rush Limbaugh a true hero. What a sewer


\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:
\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:






RETIRED COMMANDING OFFICER REMEBERS LT COL VINDMAN AS A PARTISAN DEMOCRAT WHO RIDICULED AMERICA WHILE HANGING OUT WITH RUSSIAN MILITARY

 Quote:
November 4, 2019



A retired Army officer who worked with Democrat “star witness” Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman in Grafenwoher, Germany, claims Vindman “really talked up” President Barack Obama and ridiculed America and Americans in front of Russian military officers.

In an eye-opening thread on Twitter last week, retired U.S. Army Lt. Colonel Jim Hickman said that he “verbally reprimanded” Vindman after he heard some of his derisive remarks for himself. “Do not let the uniform fool you,” Hickman wrote. “He is a political activist in uniform.”



Hickman, 52, says he’s a disabled wounded warrior who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and who received numerous medals, including the Purple Heart.

The retired officer said that Vindman, a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Ukraine, made fun of the United States to the point that it made other soldiers “uncomfortable.” For example, Hickman told American Greatness that he heard Vindman call Americans “rednecks”—a word that needed to be translated for the Russians. He said they all had a big laugh at America’s expense.

Vindman, who serves on the National Security Council (NSC), appeared last week before the House Intelligence Committee and testified that he’d had “concerns” about the July phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Vindman’s testimony rested on his negative opinions of the call, rather than any new facts about the call.

Vindman’s former boss, NSC Senior Director for European Affairs Tim Morrison, threw cold water on Vindman’s claims in his own testimony later in the week, saying he didn’t have concerns that “anything illegal was discussed” in the phone call. Morrison also testified that Ukrainian officials were not even aware that military funding had been delayed by the Trump Administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call.


“COMPLETELY BEYOND REPROACH”


Hickman said he decided to come forward because Vindman “disobeyed a direct order from the commander-in-chief, his boss,” made his testimony “about his foreign policy opinions versus facts,” and “wore his Army service uniform to make a political statement” against the president.

“Then right on cue, the mainstream media began calling him a war hero with a purple heart, and completely beyond reproach,” Hickman wrote in a statement to American Greatness and another journalist. “Knowing his political bias, backed by his somewhat radical left-leaning ideology, it was my obligation, indeed my duty, to come forward with this information. I couldn’t go to the same mainstream media to put it out, nor could I go to the Army, as they’re backing Vindman, so I took to Twitter, a source for getting the truth out,” he added.

According to Hickman, Vindman was the Defense Department attaché at the Russian embassy in Germany when he met him in 2013. He told American Greatness that he also met Vindman’s twin brother Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman while he was stationed in Germany.

“I know LTC Alex Vindman from a Combined US-Russian exercise called Atlas Vision [13] in Grafenwoher,” Hickman wrote on Twitter. “He worked with the Russian Embassy and I was assigned to the JMTC (Joint Multinational Training Command), within USAREUR (US Army Europe). He worked coordination w/the Russian 15th Peacekeeping Brigade, and I was in charge of all Simulations planning, as well as assisting the USAREUR Lead Planner as the Senior Military Planner.”

Hickman provided American Greatness with a picture of himself and his wife while he was on vacation in Venice during that time period.


He noted that he and Vindman had “interacted on several different occasions throughout the planning cycle, but it was during the actual execution of the exercise that we had an issue relevant to his recent testimony.


LAUGHING AT AMERICANS' EXPENSE


Hickman said he had pretty much forgotten about Vindman until recently.

“When I saw him, and understood what he was trying to accomplish, I knew immediately he was involved in this mess as a partisan Democrat,” Hickman said in his statement.

He explained on Twitter that Vindman, who was a major in 2013, sat in on the US-Russian exercises that were conducted in “Virtual Battle Simulations 2 (VBS2) classrooms simulation.”

According to Hickman, Vindman spoke with “U.S. and Russian Soldiers, as well as the young officers and GS employees about America, Russia, and Obama.”

Hickman’s Oct. 31 tweets continue below in paragraph form for easier reading:


He was apologetic of American culture, laughed about Americans not being educated or worldly, & really talked up Obama & globalism to the point of (sic) uncomfortable.

He would speak w/the Russian Soldiers & laugh as if at the expense of the US personnel. It was so uncomfortable & unprofessional, one of the GS [civil service]employees came & told me everything above. I walked over & sat w/in earshot of Vindman, & sure enough, all was confirmed.

One comment truly struck me as odd, & it was w/respect to American’s falsely thinking they’re exceptional, when he said, “He [Obama] is working on that now.” And he said it w/a snide ‘I know a secret’ look on his face. I honestly don’t know what it meant, it just sounded like an odd thing to say.

Regardless, after hearing him bash America a few times in front of subordinates, Russians, & GS Employees, as well as, hearing an earful about globalization, Obama’s plan, etc., I’d had enough. I tapped him on the shoulder & asked him to step outside. At that point I verbally reprimanded him for his actions, & I’ll leave it at that, so as not to be unprofessional myself.

The bottom-line is LTC Vindman was a partisan Democrat at least as far back as [2013]. So much so, junior officers & soldiers felt uncomfortable around him. This is not your professional, field-grade officer, who has the character & integrity to do the right thing. Do not let the uniform fool you…he is a political activist in uniform. I pray our nation will drop this hate, vitriol & division, & unite as our founding fathers intended!🇺🇸

Thomas Lasch, Hickman’s boss at the time, corroborated his story on Twitter.

“Jim, I remember exercise ATLAS VISION and this incident. I was your Boss at the time and was satisfied when you told me that you ‘took care of it’ (meaning then MAJ Vindman’s disparaging comments about the U.S. to the Russians ) and I just put things together this past week,” Lasch tweeted.
— Thomas Lasch (@ThomasLasch1) November 2, 2019

Lasch is a highly respected simulation strategist at the Joint Multinational Simulation Center in Grafenwoehr, Germany where he is responsible for the “Live Virtual Constructive and Gaming simulation program for all U.S. Forces in Europe.”

Lasch vouched for Hickman in a second tweet: “Everyone on this thread should know that Jim Hickman’s patriotism and honesty is unparalleled. He is one of my personal heroes.” He added: “This is not about Trump! This is about an officer [LTC Vindman] that is disloyal to the United States of America.”

American Greatness was able to reach Lasch through his LinkedIn account. He verified that the recently established Twitter account in his name vouching for Hickman was indeed his.
“Yes this is my LinkedIn account. It is really me. And the Twitter account is mine as well,” Lasch said.

In his statement, Hickman explained why Lasch remembered the incident with Vindman: “I did question his patriotism to our nation, and the lack of respect given to Americans in general. I was indeed furious and that’s most likely why my boss Tom Lasch remembers it so clearly.”

“I corrected him solely as a superior officer witnessing a junior officer doing something wrong,” Hickman explained. “We as officers are not supposed to talk about our political leanings, especially in front of subordinates, and never are we to talk down about Americans and our culture.”

Hickman further explained to American Greatness that Vindman spoke favorably of the United Nations, and appeared contemptuous of Americans who didn’t appreciate the U.N. Vindman, Hickman said, believed that “the U.N. should have broader powers” and “talked about how the American people weren’t worldly.”

He noted that Vindman actually used the word “globalism” during the conversation and “talked about American culture versus European culture,” unfavorably, essentially suggesting that “the U.S. has no culture.”

Hickman also told American Greatness that Vindman talked about “Obama changing America” and that it reminded him of Obama’s infamous “Fundamentally transforming America” speech of October 2008.

The former officer stressed that he was not seeking recognition or praise but instead, “to just get the facts and truth out that are relevant to the current situation.”

Hickman said in his statement that he began his Army career in military intelligence and was commissioned in 1996 as a field artillery officer.

He retired from the service in 2017 and now resides near Tampa, Florida.




Vindman was a treasonous backstabbing mole in Trump's white house NSC. He badmouthed America daily. He undermined his President and commander in chief daily. He leaked documents.
At the very least, Vindman could face jail time for the leaked documents. He's damn lucky to have not been dishonorably discharged and prosecuted.

There is no way you can sugarcoat what Vindman's superior officers said.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 9:17 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: M E M
Lol, we should be like you and demonize most of the opposition and anybody like Romney that actually voted his conscience? I saw that more than a few republicans actually agree with the democrats in the House about Trump being guilty but than voted to block evidence and than to acquit Trump. And they are quiet today as he had his petty vindictive meltdown at the bipartisan prayer meeting.


Unlike you, I've cited specific actions and policies that make me oppose Romney and others, usually sourced and linked. I don't just hate someone blindly, I oppose them because they are proven to be bad for the country.

And the media's kneejerk gushing over Romney, because he bashes Trump and his fellow Republicans, is absolute fact as well. Compaare with past treatment of John McCain, Anthony Scaramucci, Michael Cohen, ANY REPUBLICAN who previously was demonized, the moment they turn on Trump or other Republicans, the liberal media and Democrats instantly sing their praises. Until, of course, they outlive their usefulness and behave like Republicans again. At that moment Dems and the media snap back to portraying them as evil.



Trump was impeached because of his own actions. Romney is guilty of looking at Trump’s actions and instead of helping him block evidence and shield his corruption. Romney wasn’t the lone republican saying Trump’s actions were wrong btw. Trump is still attacking McCain who’s been dead a while now. It’s ridiculous to think that Romney doesn’t know he committed political suicide. Trump’s pettiness and the gop’s devotion to him insures that. Even when Trump leaves you guys bankrupted and fucked you will still hate Romney for being the friend who told you Trump was pos.



Trump was impeached because a corrupt Democrat-Bolshevik maajority wanted to impeach him for lying-political-narrative reasons, and were going to impeach him in the House no matter what, before they looked at a single page of evidence.

They manipulated hearings and selectively omitted evidence, and despite hqaving much of the hearings in a high-security SCIF room, they daily leaked those hearings ndaily to their comrades in the liberal media waiting outside, and only kept confidential and unheard those details that were exculpatory and beneficial to Trump's defense.
As soon as those details were made public, Democrats' popular support for impeachment dropped like a stone, and was never regained. Because they were exposed as the vicious liars that they are.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 9:30 AM



And Romney has no ethics or objectivity. Romney has a vendetta against Trump because Trump won in 2016 and Romney didn't. Romney has opposed Trump at every turn, NOT based on any principle or desire to reveal any truth.

And you misrepresent "other Republicans" in the Senate hearings. They didn't say Trump was guilty, they said Trump made some unfortunate ambiguous word choices in the July 25th call with Zelensky, but that it certainly didn't rise to the level of being impeached.

Richard Nixon was investigated by a special investigation, and found guilty of actual crimes.

Bill Clinton was investigated by a special investigation, and found guilty of actual crimes.

Donald Trump was investigated by an unbelievably biased Democrat-run special investigation, and despite that, was found *NOT* guilty of *ANY CRIMES*. Trump was exonerated, he has not guilty, he has nothing to apologize for (despite the liberal media narrative that compared it to Bill Clinton apologizing after his 1999 verdict. I forget the exact order, but likely Bill Clinton was showwing maximum contriteness, so that he would receive the censure he got, rather than removal from office. Clinton WAS FOUND GUILTY OF CRIMES, by both the 1) Special investigation, and 2) Congress. So the two cannot be compared as equal and the same.)


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 4:59 PM
Actually Clinton was acquitted like Trump was in the impeachment trial. We didn’t celebrate it and pretend he didn’t lie under oath over what you would call a process crime. He apologized while Trump rages and plots more revenge and more investigations on his political foes. Total morally bankrupt and your party fuels it to hold onto power.

Lamar Jackson while voting to block evidence with most of the republican majority explained his vote to acquit this way... “There is no need for more evidence to prove that the president asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter; he said this on television on October 3, 2019, and during his July 25, 2019, telephone call with the president of Ukraine,” Alexander said in a statement. “There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this with what they call a ‘mountain of overwhelming evidence.'”

Other republicans also went that route noting Trump’s wrongdoing. They however voted to block witnesses and documents unlike Romney.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-08 11:37 PM
Lamar, Rubio, Collins and I believe others in there vote explanations do believe what Trump did was wrong. It’s quite as simple as just the democrats having an issue with what Trump did. I think impeachment should be hard btw especially after seeing republicans use it on Clinton. This however wasn’t asking a sitting president about a blowjob under oath. This was Trump misusing his power to try to get an announcement of an investigation of who he viewed as his top rival in the upcoming election. Imagine if Obama had done that to Romney? It would have never been okay in any shape or form with your side. But investigating the Clinton’s over and over and now the Biden’s is a well established pattern just like when the deficit needs to be paid when a democrat gets elected (by popular vote and electoral to boot). I reallly worry that we’re where we’re at because democracy isn’t working for your party and to try to hold onto it’s fading power Trump is going to be allowed to steal the election.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-09 12:34 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually Clinton was acquitted like Trump was in the impeachment trial. We didn’t celebrate it and pretend he didn’t lie under oath over what you would call a process crime. He apologized while Trump rages and plots more revenge and more investigations on his political foes. Total morally bankrupt and your party fuels it to hold onto power.


That is such a lie and deliberate deception. Clinton was found by the special investigation to be guilty of crimes, including perjury and obstruction of justice. While a bipartisan House found Clinton guilty, the Senate vote to acquit him.


 Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

The impeachment of Bill Clinton was initiated on October 8, 1998, when the United States House of Representatives voted to commence impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States, for "high crimes and misdemeanors". The specific charges against Clinton were lying under oath and obstruction of justice. The charges stemmed from a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Clinton by Paula Jones and from Clinton's testimony denying that he had engaged in a sexual relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. The catalyst for the president's impeachment was the Starr Report, a September 1998 report prepared by Independent Counsel Ken Starr for the House Judiciary Committee.[1]

On December 19, 1998, Clinton became the second American president to be impeached (the first being Andrew Johnson, who was impeached in 1868), when the House formally adopted two articles of impeachment and forwarded them to the United States Senate for adjudication; two other articles were considered, but were rejected.[a] A trial in the Senate began in January 1999, with Chief Justice William Rehnquist presiding. On February 12, Clinton was acquitted on both counts as neither received the necessary two-thirds majority vote of the senators present for conviction and removal from office—in this instance 67. On Article One, 45 senators voted to convict while 55 voted for acquittal. On Article Two, 50 senators voted to convict while 50 voted for acquittal.[3] Clinton remained in office for the remainder of his second term.[4]


In the case of Clinton, there were crimes the Special Counsel found evidence Clinton was guilty of. What allowed Clinton to be spared by the Senate is that they deemed them not to be crimes that rose to the level of removing Clinton from office.

In the case of Trump, there were NOT crimes found by the special counsel. NONE.
And therefore it should never have gone on to a House impeachment or a Senate trial. Except as a political weapon to smear and damage Trump going into the 2018 and 2020 elections.

 Quote:

Lamar Jackson while voting to block evidence with most of the republican majority explained his vote to acquit this way... “There is no need for more evidence to prove that the president asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter; he said this on television on October 3, 2019, and during his July 25, 2019, telephone call with the president of Ukraine,” Alexander said in a statement. “There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this with what they call a ‘mountain of overwhelming evidence.'”

Other republicans also went that route noting Trump’s wrongdoing. They however voted to block witnesses and documents unlike Romney.


That Trump asked Zelensky to aid a corruption investigation that included involvement of the Bidens is not in question. That much is a fact and clearly documented. But the U.S. and Ukraine have laws to share information and records to jointly fight corruption. Which Trump can be argued to have lawfully been doing, in execution of the law Trump took an oath to do. The only sticking point that gives Democrats the slightest allegation of wrong is Trump mentioned the Bidens in the July 25th call. But Trump was breaking no law. Trump's job is to investigate corruption. The Bidens WERE CLEARLY PART of that corruption.

Democrats can half-bakedly allege a conflict of interest because Joe Biden is running for president. But Trump had legitimate and lawful reasons for investigating the Bidens as part of his job as president, to enforce the law and weed out corruption in Ukraine. Harvarl Law school and famous attorney Alan Dershowitz has made that argument repeatedly.
And as evidenced in the Iowa and New Hampshire polls, Trump needs no unfair advantage to remove Biden as an opponent. Biden was and is imploding quite spectacularly on his own, and has been since before this Ukraine/impeachment thing began in September 2019.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-09 12:50 AM
I actually agree with you on Biden imploding and I don’t think it’s anything to do with Trump trying to investigate him. Or an announcement of an investigation to be precise. That of course doesn’t change what Trump did. Those documents and testimony can’t be blocked forever.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-09 5:09 PM
And because republicans used their majority to help Trump’s obstruction of witnesses it really was a sham trial and acquittal. After the John Bolton leaks, it’s very apparent how much of a sham it was.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 12:41 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And because republicans used their majority to help Trump’s obstruction of witnesses it really was a sham trial and acquittal. After the John Bolton leaks, it’s very apparent how much of a sham it was.


No, that's ass-backwards.

Democrats obstructed a thorough investigation and did not call the witnesses they should have, as they whipped through their scam rubber-stamp impeachment in 78 days, for pure political reasons to get it done befoee Christmas.
Soviet-style, the Democrats were hell-bent on impeaching Trump and going to do so NO MATTER WHAT THE EVIDENCE. So they whipped it through, and then blamed Senate Republicans for not doing the investigation that they, the House Democrats, were supposed to do.
And they blamed Trump for not cooperating, despite that they set up rules that unfairly prevented him and his lawyers from conducting an adequate defense. Of 78 days of impeachment, I think Trump's lawyers were permitted to attend 3 or 4 days.

There was nothing in the Trump impeachment rules Democrats set up (unlike the bipartisan Nixon impeachment rules, unlike the bipartisan Clinton impeachment rules) that ever tried to establish the unquestionably fair bipartisan practices of the two previous impeachments. And without fair bipartisan rules, there was NO WAY Republicans were going to just roll over and cooperate with unfair rules.

As Mitch McConnell said in a Senate floor statement right after the Senate acquittal, Democrats' clear plan was to force the Senate to call witnesses THAT THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T AND WOULDN'T for the calculated purpose of blaming the Senate for the failed case the House Democrats didn't make, and to use prolonged Senate hearings with no evidence to smear Senate Republicans and win a Democrat Senate majority in the Nov 2020 election.
House Democrats knew they were NEVER NEVER NEVER going to impeach and remove Trump, but Democrats calculated kicking it to the Senate for long hearings with no evidence as a way for Dems to win the Senate.
But Senate Republicans cleverly didn't take the bait. And now it's over.

The Democrat party is entirely built on lies, slander, intimidation, mob rule and deception. How glorious that these evil bastards were defeated, AGAIN.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 12:49 AM
WB I watched republicans vote to block witnesses. You can try all you want to say otherwise but after the Bolton leaks everyone knows why republicans didn’t want his testimony.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 1:12 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I actually agree with you on Biden imploding and I don’t think it’s anything to do with Trump trying to investigate him. Or an announcement of an investigation to be precise. That of course doesn’t change what Trump did. Those documents and testimony can’t be blocked forever.


I'm glad we can agree on that much. Biden is a gaffe machine, with no vision for the country. He was doomed to fail from the moment he announced his candiddacy. Several pundits on differenct programs said the same thing the day Biden announced, Mollie Hemingway and Guy Benson among them. That Biden's best polls would be the day he announced his candidacy, and that would erode every week until he eventually was forced to drop out. We're about 2 or 3 weeks away from seeing Biden drop out.

And Trump did nothing other than execute the laws as he swore to in his oath of office.
The fact that Biden and his son Hunter were the corrupt individuals caught up in those laws is just a byproduct Democrats are exploiting. Trump demanded nothing, simply requested records as the U.S. and Ukraine have laws to share records to fight corruption, Trump delivered aid to Ukraine weeks before the Sept 30th deadline, and aid was given to Ukraine without a Zelensky anti-corruption press conference that Trump had wanted. No coercion, no quid-pro-quo, no forced concessions from Ukraine. Democrats want to convict Trump for a thought-crime, or from the Tom Cruise movie Minority Report a "pre-crime". Trump committed no actual crime.

As compared to Joseph Biden and hunter Biden, and several other Biden relatives, who used nepotism to reap enormous fortunes from Biden's office.
As compared to three Democrat Senators who sent a letter to Ukraine and extorted concessions from the Ukraine governemnt under threat, used to influence the 2016 election in the Democrats' favor.

As compared to the Hillary Clinton 2016 campaign and the DNC giving at least $2 million to Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS/Christopher Steele to buy information from Russiaan and Ukraanian agents for their "Russia Dossier" of salacious/unprovable slanders to influence the 2016 election.
As compared to pro-Hillary agents who backdoored known false "Russia Dossier" information into the FBI and DOJ, to obtain with knowingly false evidence *four* consecutive FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. The people who submitted and approved those FISA warrants broke federal laws (knowingly submitting false evidence to a federal judge) and should go to jail.

As compared to the FBI hiring "foreign assets" to pose as Russian agents and infiltrate the Trump campaign, approaching George Pappadapoulos, Roger Stone, Jerome Corsi, Michael Caputo, Michael Flynn and others. Some of whom have been imprisoned despite having done nothing wrong, others still being bankrupted and kept in a personal hellish limbo by a vindictive and Democrat-weaponized FBI.

And House/Senate Democrats don't even want to examine the evidence against these other players.

A very one-sided justice.

And that's not even getting into other unexplored crimes such as Hillary's pay-to-play selling of State Department access in exchange for foreign Clinton Foundation donations.
Or ATF's Obama-orchestrated "Fast and Furious" program to sell guns to Mexican cartels, to blame U.S. gun retailers, that resulted in dozens killed.
Or the Obama administration's orchestrated weaponization of the IRS against Tea Party and religious conservative groups in the 2012 election.
On and on, the Democrat crimes that go unpunished.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 1:29 AM
I’m sure Trump will be having his party and JOD investigating all his old enemies and whoever else might be the new political rival for 2020. Republicans have actually just been permanently investigating Hillary so nothing really new there. But you can bet democrats will be working to get that Bolton testimony and other testimony and documents. Trump’s corruption will just drip out in bits as courts eventually force him to comply.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 1:45 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I’m sure Trump will be having his party and JOD investigating all his old enemies and whoever else might be the new political rival for 2020. Republicans have actually just been permanently investigating Hillary so nothing really new there. But you can bet democrats will be working to get that Bolton testimony and other testimony and documents. Trump’s corruption will just drip out in bits as courts eventually force him to comply.


You forget that DOJ, FBI, State Department, and IRS are all Democrat run federal branches, what Pompeo has described as "Democrat-occupied territory". With mid-level people who obstruct justice in the Democrat favor at every turn.
That's why Giuliani went himself to Ukraine. Because Ukranian officials had sent documentation and red-flagged corruption information to the State Dept, FBI and DOJ, and deep state/Democrat agents just buried it, Giuliani never saw it. Only by visiting Ukraine and bypassing those channels did Giuliani find the truth.

A G William Barr is a breath of fresh air, pursuing actual justice in the DOJ for the first time in a long time. I don't know if he can overcome the level of entrenched [Democrat] corruption in DOJ and FBI that exists to make actual justice occur. I hope so.
FBI director Christopher Wray, inspectors general in multiple departments, and the judges in the FISA Court seem to resist any meaningful reforms and preserve the status quo (i.e., preserve Democrat power and Democrat corruption, and ability to weaponize federal agencies).

I hope Barr-appointed John Durham's coming release of his investigation is enough to enact real change.

And like I said several posts back, you guys are once again going to be very disappointed with Bolton's testimony. If he even testifies.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 2:21 AM



Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 2:41 AM
Bolton’s willing to testify, republicans just don’t want him to for obvious reasons. Hide, obstruct, accuse and perpetual investigation is your party. It’s laughable that you even spout your bs after the gop blocked Bolton’s testimony.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 2:47 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And because republicans used their majority to help Trump’s obstruction of witnesses it really was a sham trial and acquittal. After the John Bolton leaks, it’s very apparent how much of a sham it was.


Asked and answered:
 Originally Posted By: WB

As Mitch McConnell said in a Senate floor statement right after the Senate acquittal, Democrats' clear plan was to force the Senate to call witnesses THAT THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T AND WOULDN'T for the calculated purpose of blaming the Senate for the failed case the House Democrats didn't make, and to use prolonged Senate hearings with no evidence to smear Senate Republicans and win a Democrat Senate majority in the Nov 2020 election.
House Democrats knew they were NEVER NEVER NEVER going to impeach and remove Trump, but Democrats calculated kicking it to the Senate for long hearings with no evidence as a way for Dems to win the Senate.
But Senate Republicans cleverly didn't take the bait. And now it's over.


Trump hits highest Gallup approval rating of his presidency
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 3:14 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Bolton’s willing to testify, republicans just don’t want him to for obvious reasons. Hide, obstruct, accuse and perpetual investigation is your party. It’s laughable that you even spout your bs after the gop blocked Bolton’s testimony.



It's nuts to blame this on Republicans. It's the Democrats who are hiding and obstructing any investigation of Obama, Hillary, their ideological robots at the FBI, DOJ and CIA.

Even if Bolton were to testify, he's a sour-grapes fired employee with nothing to back up his allegations.

You guys hated Bolton for 20 years, but now that he's a potential witness against Trump, Dems love Bolton and hang on his every unscrutinized word as absolute gospel truth.
Likewise former Trump attorney Michael Cohen. You hated the guy for years, and as soon as he turned on Trump he could say no wrong.
Likewise Romney, hated for roughly 20 years, you demonized him as an evil rich guy, a white supremacist racist, an anti-gay bully, a guy whose venture capitalism caused a woman to die of cancer (except the facts don't back that up), on and on. But now that Romney sided with impeaching Trump for transparent payback reasons, he's courageous, he's eloquent, he's a truth-telling hero of the Democrat/Left.

Amazing how you guys make polar flips in your views and never even worry about how to rationalize it. The only logic of it is it backs your lying propaganda talking points.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 4:09 AM
The House asked Bolton to testify before it got to the Senate and before the book leak. He refused as did Moldavey and others. Bolton did agree to testify for the Senate. It’s very clear why Moscow Mitch and stooges helped Trump to block Bolton’s testimony.

It might take a while longer now going through the courts to get the evidence and testimony but you have to know it’s going to happen.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 4:13 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And because republicans used their majority to help Trump’s obstruction of witnesses it really was a sham trial and acquittal. After the John Bolton leaks, it’s very apparent how much of a sham it was.


Asked and answered:
 Originally Posted By: WB

As Mitch McConnell said in a Senate floor statement right after the Senate acquittal, Democrats' clear plan was to force the Senate to call witnesses THAT THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T AND WOULDN'T for the calculated purpose of blaming the Senate for the failed case the House Democrats didn't make, and to use prolonged Senate hearings with no evidence to smear Senate Republicans and win a Democrat Senate majority in the Nov 2020 election.
House Democrats knew they were NEVER NEVER NEVER going to impeach and remove Trump, but Democrats calculated kicking it to the Senate for long hearings with no evidence as a way for Dems to win the Senate.
But Senate Republicans cleverly didn't take the bait. And now it's over.


Trump hits highest Gallup approval rating of his presidency


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 4:36 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The House asked Bolton to testify before it got to the Senate and before the book leak. He refused as did Moldavey and others. Bolton did agree to testify for the Senate. It’s very clear why Moscow Mitch and stooges helped Trump to block Bolton’s testimony.

It might take a while longer now going through the courts to get the evidence and testimony but you have to know it’s going to happen.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 7:44 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And because Republicans used their majority to help Trump’s obstruction of witnesses it really was a sham trial and acquittal. After the John Bolton leaks, it’s very apparent how much of a sham it was.


Asked and answered:
 Originally Posted By: WB

As Mitch McConnell said in a Senate floor statement right after the Senate acquittal, Democrats' clear plan was to force the Senate to call witnesses THAT THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T AND WOULDN'T for the calculated purpose of blaming the Senate for the failed case the House Democrats didn't make, and to use prolonged Senate hearings with no evidence to smear Senate Republicans and win a Democrat Senate majority in the Nov 2020 election.
House Democrats knew they were NEVER NEVER NEVER going to impeach and remove Trump, but Democrats calculated kicking it to the Senate for long hearings with no evidence as a way for Dems to win the Senate.
But Senate Republicans cleverly didn't take the bait. And now it's over.


Trump hits highest Gallup approval rating of his presidency





And by the way, it's Mick Mulvaney, not Muldavey.

The whole point was for House Democrats to trick the Senate into prolonged hearings. There was nothing to find by the House, so they rushed it through and kicked it to the Republican-majority Senate, and tried to trick the Republicans into months-long hearings where nothing will be found, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO FIND!
It was a trick to blame the Republican Senate for their own Democrat-House failure.
And if the Republicans call Bolton and other witnesses, that just prolongs it, there's no evidence to find. And when nothing is found, Democrats just allege that Republicans shortened the hearings before anything could be found, whether the Republicans concede to 100 witnesses, 1,000 witnesses or 100,000 witnesses! The Democrat response to no evidence will always be Republicans are suppressing the truth, we need to see more witnesses. Again, a ploy to blame the Republican Senate for the House Dems' own failure, so they can use that lying narrative to gaain a Senate Democrat majority.

But Republicans wouldn't play that game, and it's over.

And a majority of Americans are glad it's over.

Despite your lying propaganda.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-10 8:16 AM

And using terms like "Moscow Mitch", whose patriotism is beyond question, just confirms what vicious liars the Democrats are.

Democrats are the party that for 70 years has enabled Soviet-Russian communism, allowed the Russians to steal technology to build atomic bombs, enabled communist infiltrators in the 1940's 1950's and 1960's, the party of Cultural Marxism and the 1960's counter-culture revolution, the party of surrender and attacking U.S. soldiers during the Vietnam war (John Kerry for example throwing military medals over a wall, Bill and Hillary Clinton organizing protests against his own country during the war, and evading the draft).
Democrats are the party that secretly negotiated behind Reagan's back to not make a nuclear arms reduction deal in 1987.

House Democrats are the party that wanted to de-fund our troops on the battlefield during the Iraq War, to force President W Bush to withdraw troops from Iraq and surrender.
Democrats are the party of Hillary Clinton, who hates police and soldiers so much that they could not wear uniforms in the White House, had to wear plain clothes when they visited the White House. Secret Service said guarding her was by far the most unpleasant assignment, regarded as a punishment detail within the secret service.

Democrats are the party of Senator Dick Durbin (D-MI), who in 2004 called our soldiers in Iraq comparable to "Nazi storm troopers, Soviet gulags and the Pol Pot regime". And amid a public uproar was forced to apologize for those comments the next day. And less than a week later on the PBS News Hour, alleged he was "misquoted" and never said it. But the video records exactly what he said.

Democrats are the party of Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, who clearly hate America, and rabidly oppose anything in the nation's interest, and things like the Green New Deal that would destroy it. Whose rhetoric was on the lips of Antifa thugs when they attacked ICE facilities in Oregon and Texas, verbatim Ocasio-Cortez's own words, which Ocasio-Cortez will not answer questions about.

The party of Bernie Sanders, who praises every communist dictatorship of the last 50 years, but has nothing good to say about America. Who hung a Soviet flag in his mayor's office for 10 years.

At every point, particularly over the most recent 50 years, Democrats have been the party whose open statements and policies and gut beliefs are hostile to the nation and its history, and who endanger us all with what they advocate.

Not "Moscow Mitch".
The Democrats prove over and over they are the traitors who endanger us, and serve foreign interests hostile to us. They slander Republicans with lying propaganda, to hide that they the Democrats are the unquestionable and indefensible traitors.

Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Valerie Jarrett, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Michelle Obama, Houma Abedin, on down, they are all vicious marxist idealogues who oppose what we are as a nation. The only America they love is the one they can "radically transform" it into.
http://archive.discoverthenetworks.org/summary.asp?object=Persons&category=

Cited and sourced.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 12:46 AM



Transcribed interview, from Mark Levin's one hour weekly program Life, Liberty, Levin, Dec 8, 2019, interviewing attorney Alan Dershowitz, on the eve of impeachment:

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/alan-...current-inquiry


 Quote:
Mark Levin: Should President Trump be impeached?

Alan Dershowitz: It would be unconstitutional for President Trump to be impeached on the current record. It would be an utter abuse of the power of Congress. The Constitution sets out four criteria for impeaching a president. Treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Unless one of those criteria is met, Congress does not have the authority to impeach, and if they do, their impeachment would be void. Alexander Hamilton said any act of Congress that is inconsistent with the Constitution is void. Now, Congress maybe can get away with impeaching because there won't be judicial review. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be violating their oath of office. They would be abusing their power if they impeached President Trump on this record.


and

 Quote:
Mark Levin: So, Professor Dershowitz, in the end now, what is your greatest concern?

Alan Dershowitz: The death of civil liberties, the diminution of due process, the fact that the hard left, particularly people who have causes, have turned against fundamental liberty. You know, it was Eric Hoffa, the one said “every cause starts as a movement, that it becomes a business. Ultimately, it degenerates into a racket.” And I'm trying to protect the #MeToo movement from becoming a racket. And I want to protect due process. That's why I'm standing up for President Trump's rights. I think we live in an age where the end justifies the means. And if you're a radical feminist, you know, if somebody is accused, he must be guilty. If you're a radical Democrat, you know, if he's President Trump, he must be guilty. And so we have to fight to preserve our basic due process and our basic and fundamental concern for free speech.


The most respected legal mind in the country. Democrats loved him when he was defending Bill Clinton. They loved him when he was attacking George W. Bush's acts as president. But now that he's applying the same standard to defending President Trump, they turn on Dershowitz and try to de-legitimize him. They promote any slander of Dershowitz, in the hope that it will delegitimize him. They won't even invite him to speaking events and parties!

Just more evidence that Democrats have become the Bolshevik party. Slander, intimidation, violence, whatever serves the party is moral. Whatever doesn't serve the party is immoral. And they are perfectly willing and eager to eat their own if they dissent from the party line.


Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 4:25 AM
Wow, I did not know he’s the most respected mind in the country. When did that happen? And Bolton and Romney are not good anymore, lol. Your true principles are abundantly clear.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 4:57 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
And because Republicans used their majority to help Trump’s obstruction of witnesses it really was a sham trial and acquittal. After the John Bolton leaks, it’s very apparent how much of a sham it was.


Asked and answered:
 Originally Posted By: WB

As Mitch McConnell said in a Senate floor statement right after the Senate acquittal, Democrats' clear plan was to force the Senate to call witnesses THAT THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T AND WOULDN'T for the calculated purpose of blaming the Senate for the failed case the House Democrats didn't make, and to use prolonged Senate hearings with no evidence to smear Senate Republicans and win a Democrat Senate majority in the Nov 2020 election.
House Democrats knew they were NEVER NEVER NEVER going to impeach and remove Trump, but Democrats calculated kicking it to the Senate for long hearings with no evidence as a way for Dems to win the Senate.
But Senate Republicans cleverly didn't take the bait. And now it's over.


Trump hits highest Gallup approval rating of his presidency





And by the way, it's Mick Mulvaney, not Muldavey.

The whole point was for House Democrats to trick the Senate into prolonged hearings. There was nothing to find by the House, so they rushed it through and kicked it to the Republican-majority Senate, and tried to trick the Republicans into months-long hearings where nothing will be found, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO FIND!
It was a trick to blame the Republican Senate for their own Democrat-House failure.
And if the Republicans call Bolton and other witnesses, that just prolongs it, there's no evidence to find. And when nothing is found, Democrats just allege that Republicans shortened the hearings before anything could be found, whether the Republicans concede to 100 witnesses, 1,000 witnesses or 100,000 witnesses! The Democrat response to no evidence will always be Republicans are suppressing the truth, we need to see more witnesses. Again, a ploy to blame the Republican Senate for the House Dems' own failure, so they can use that lying narrative to gaain a Senate Democrat majority.

But Republicans wouldn't play that game, and it's over.

And a majority of Americans are glad it's over.

Despite your lying propaganda.



This fairy tale you’re trying to push is false based on the facts WB. The House tried to get Bolton and others to testify but they refused. Bolton did say he would testify for the senate. After the leaks from his book it’s laughable that you even try to say there is nothing there. This was the first impeachment trial where the President tried to block all the witnesses and documents. Than Senate Republicans helped with their votes for no witnesses. This was also the first one where someone from the same party crossed over to vote to remove a president from their party. I feel bad for Romney as Trump and his supporters will make him pay for the rest of his life for putting country before party.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 5:23 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Wow, I did not know he’s the most respected mind in the country. When did that happen? And Bolton and Romney are not good anymore, lol. Your true principles are abundantly clear.



Not just my opinion. Although my opinion was formed before the others voiced the same consensus in the days after.

Bolton has long been known to be a Neo-Con globalist, and a proponent for war in Iraq, Iran and North Korea. He was *hated* by the Democrat/Left for close to 20 years. Just look at the posts here from 10 or 15 years ago as a sample.

And now, the split second Bolton at least appears to turn on Trump (we still haven't seen one sentence or even a vague outline of where he allegedly criticizes Trump), he suddenly walks on water in the eyes of Democrats and is lionized for his courage (again, based on absolutely nothing revealed). It would be delicious if Bolton turns out to have trolled you all.

Likewise Romney. You guys on the Left have demonized Romney since he first announced as a Republican primary candidate in 2008. Which is interesting because Democrats and the liberal media scarcely had a negative word to say about Romney until became a serious Republican contender. Then he suddenly overnight became evil in his media portrayal, a robber baron who bankrupts companies and deprives people of their pensions, a guy who caused a man's wife to die of cancer because of his lost healthcare benefits (de-bunked as completely false), a guy who kills dogs, a guy who has a car-elevator in his home. RICH EVIL BLUE-BLOOD! OUT OF TOUCH!! EVIL KLANSMAN WHITE RACIST!!
And now overnight because he attacked Trump and supported impeachment, you Democrat Bolsheviks completely flipped, and you looooooooooooooove him! Oooooh, he's so eloquent! So passionate, so principled!!
Democrats must be treated for a lot of whiplash injuries, for how often they just suddenly completely flip their views, without the slightest sense of hypocrisy or shame or logic.

Romney has, despite being a Republican, consistently railed on and attacked Trump at every turn since Romney lost to Trump in 2016. Then incredibly, Trump still was conciliatory and gave Romney the opportunity to be considered for secretary of state. And Romney continued to attack Trump at every turn.
Then in 2018, Romney runs for Utah Senator (replacing the very likeable Orrin Hatch) and oddly begs Trump (who he's still been bashing) to campaign for Romney to secure his election in Utah. And then as soon as Romney wins, he instantly starts using that Senate seat to attack Trump. A Seante office Romney likely would not have if not for Trump. So all that can be seen from this is that Romney has consistently held a petty vendetta against Trump, and twisted the knife in Trump's back repeatedly. Trump was magnanimous and helped Romney, and this is the thanks he gets.
So... where is Romney's demonstrated integrity and loyalty? When was Romney every loyal to Trump to make a principled move away from Trump?
Never, M E M.

Never.

And for that matter, when did Romney ever stop being an evil rich guy, a pension-destroyer, a wife-killer, a weirdo from a Mormon religious cult who wears magic unerwear? These are all things Democrats and the liberal media were saying for a decade about Romney until very recently.

Man, you neck must be hurting like hell from all that whiplash.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 5:44 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
This fairy tale you’re trying to push is false based on the facts WB.


No, it's what I said. What Mitch McConnell himself said.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
The House tried to get Bolton and others to testify but they refused. Bolton did say he would testify for the senate.


There, you just said it: BOLTON refused!
For reasons I've made clear, because of the House rules that didn't allow equal and impartial Republican ability to cross-examine witnesses. If the rules were fair and bipartisan, Trump and other Republicans would have been more cooperative. But why help Democrats stack the deck? Why reward them for partisanly denying equal access to supoena witnesses and cross examine?

 Originally Posted By: M E M
After the leaks from his book it’s laughable that you even try to say there is nothing there.


Name your "proof". If it existed, it would be all over the news.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
This was the first impeachment trial where the President tried to block all the witnesses and documents.


For reasons that the Democrats have partisanly shafted Trump and the Republicans, and denied Republicans the same ability to subpoena witnesses and to cross-examine witnessess, and in many cases not allowed Republicans to even attend SCIF-room closed-door hearings, some of whom had to wait weeks for the transcribed testimony they were not permitted to witness. EVEN AS THEY LEAKED ANYTHING FAVORABLE TO DEMOCRATS TO THE PRESS!
In the case of I C I G Atkinson, his testimony, even transcribed, was >>>>NEVER<<<< provided to the Republican House members. Indicating that there is something there the Democrats want to hide.
Than Senate Republicans helped with their votes for no witnesses.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
This was also the first one where someone from the same party crossed over to vote to remove a president from their party. I feel bad for Romney as Trump and his supporters will make him pay for the rest of his life for putting country before party.



Asked and answered: Because Romney is an unprincipled backstabbing weasel. Romney has never supported Trump, has undermined him at every turn since 2016, even after he begged Trump to campaign for him, and Romney turned on Trump the moment he was elected Senator. Where is Romney's principled turn away from Trump? Never. Roney was a rat, is a rat, and the lying Democrats who were demonizing him for 13 years suddenly lionize Romney, and don't remember their own vicious attacks on Romney. Romney is only praised by you guys because he is a weapon for you Bolsheviks to attack Trump.

Romney put himself before party, thinking he could set himself up as the GOP alternative to Trump. Or at least spitefully destroy Trump as payback, whether or not Romney politically gained from it. But instead Romney after 4 years of attacks on Trump, has finally committed an offense for which his own party will never forgive him. Romney is the quintessence of a RINO, a Republican in name only, who undermines his own party at every turn.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 6:59 AM
Actually republicans were allowed to ask witnesses questions. The transcripts from the House hearings show republicans asking almost as many questions as the democrats on the panels involved. And remember Trump was and is still trying to block any and all witnesses and documents. I think Bolton wanted the House to go to the courts first to get his testimony but that could have taken years. As repeated many times now, Bolton did offer to testify if the Senate asked him too. Given the leak I suspect Bolton’s testimony will be much like the others that were willing to testify under oath when we finally get it. Unlike the story being told by those who don’t want to testify under oath.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 7:43 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually republicans were allowed to ask witnesses questions.


In a selective narrow partial truth, you can lyingly allege that. But the mere fact that Republicans were provided with traanscripts WEEKS AFTER the closed-room SCIF hearings puts the lie to what you are trying to allege.

And in the case of intelligence community inspector general (I C I G) Michael Atkinson, whose testimony was NEVER provided to Republicans, AT ALL your lie begins to fall apart.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
The transcripts from the House hearings show republicans asking almost as many questions as the democrats on the panels involved.


Maybe on select transcripts. But it's ridiculous that a Republican on House Judiciary committee would not be permitted to sit in on and ask questions of the House Intelligence committee and vice versa. Whereas no such limits are put on Democrats of these two committees. The purpose is to limit Republicans' ability to have access to all the hearings, and to coordinate an adequate defense, in the absence of full disclosure by the piece-of-shit lying Democrats.
Let alone the ability for Republicans to call thier own witnesses and cross-examine depositions they were not able to see first hand, read the witness' body language to detect if they are lying, not able to be present to ask questions.
As Democrat say they are restricting attendaance of SCIF hearings, even as Dems leak any testimony advantageous to their side, to the reporters right outside the SCIF room, called there by the Bolshevik Dems for precisely that purpose. The hypocrisy just overflows.

As compared to the bipartisan and unquestionably fair rules in the previous Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton hearings, where there was no calculated exclusion of either side from hearings, equal advance notice and attendance of hearings, equal ability to cross examine and present exculpatory evidence, and equal ability and advance notice for both sides to call witnesses.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
And remember Trump was and is still trying to block any and all witnesses and documents.


That is your employment of Moscow Central Committee tactics, to repeat a lie so many times that by mere repetition the lie takes on an appearance of truth. Trump did not cooperate because the rules were partisan and unfair, Dems never made any attempt to set up fair and bipartisan rules, did not give Trump and his lawyers and the House Republicans equal ability to attend hearings, to present exculpatory evidence, to present his own witnesses, and again Trump's lawyers were excluded from all but 4 of the 78 days of the House impeachment hearings.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
I think Bolton wanted the House to go to the courts first to get his testimony but that could have taken years.


"I think Bolton..." is not a fact. It's pure unsubstantiated speculation.

 Originally Posted By: M E M
As repeated many times now, Bolton did offer to testify if the Senate asked him [to]. Given the leak I suspect Bolton’s testimony will be much like the others that were willing to testify under oath when we finally get it. Unlike the story being told by those who don’t want to testify under oath.


I think the leak had to do with the fact it occurred within a week of the release of Bolton's book. It's not even a leak, it's just a rumor, no facts, or even any specific quoted lines of Bolton's opinion were disclosed.
I think it's a publicity stunt, where he or the leakers in his staff didn't disclose any actual quotes from the book.

Even if Bolton discloses anything in the book, it's still his opinion and a case of "he said/he said", his word vs. Trump's. And Bolton, having been fired humiliatingly, has a clear grudge motive for anything he alleges.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 3:16 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Actually republicans were allowed to ask witnesses questions.


In a selective narrow partial truth, you can lyingly allege that. But the mere fact that Republicans were provided with traanscripts WEEKS AFTER the closed-room SCIF hearings puts the lie to what you are trying to allege.
...


You know what wouldn’t be a partial truth? Saying republicans were not allowed to cross examine. That was a lie. If you intentionally told it that makes you a liar. I suspect you just got caught up in the back and forth but I’m not the one “lyingly alleging”. To be precise, you flat out posted something not true.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 10:44 PM

In some cases, Republicans were able to attend. But in the majority of SCIF depositions, Republicans were not able to attend, and had to wait for transcripts of testimony they were not able to witness firsthand.

And as I said, repeatedly, in the very important testimony of Intelligence Community Inspector General (I C I G) Mike Atkinson, Republicans were not permitted to attend at all, and were never even provided witht he transcript after the fact, NEVER.

It's ridiculous that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), who is a member of the House Judiciary Committee, is not allowed to sit in on the House Intelligence Committee. He is a ranking House official. The only reason for excluding him is to prevent Republicans from having full access to information, and therefore blocking Republicans/Trump/Trump's lawyers from full access to the facts and mounting an adequate defense. That's why Republicans stormed the SCIF room, they were fed up with being locked out and having limited acces to testimony.

And despite this Soviet-Style rigging of the hearings, the American people saw how unfair the Democrat hearings were to Trump, and his polled support soared, and Trump was acquitted, in spite of Democrat corruption.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-11 11:15 PM



TRANSCRIPT REVEALS HOW GAETZ WAS EJECTED FROM IMPEACHMENT HEARING


 Quote:
by Caitlin Yilek, Washington Examiner
November 08, 2019


A transcript of a former National Security Council official’s closed-door testimony revealed how a Republican lawmaker was ejected from the impeachment hearing.
Rep. Matt Gaetz, a member of the House Judiciary Committee, was present when Fiona Hill began her deposition on Oct. 14. The Republican is not a member of the three committees leading the impeachment investigation into President Trump’s conduct toward Ukraine and was noticed by House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff a few minutes into the hearing.

“Excuse me, could we suspend?” Schiff said, according to the transcript released Friday. “Do we have any members here that are not members of the three committees authorized to be present? Mr. Gaetz, you’re not permitted to be in the room.”

“I’m on the Judiciary Committee,” Gaetz said.

“Judiciary Committee is not a part of this hearing,” Schiff responded.

“I thought the Judiciary Committee Committee had jurisdiction over impeachment,” Gaetz said.

“Mr. Gaetz, you’re not permitted to be in the room. Please leave,” Schiff replied.

“Mr. Chairman, really?” Republican Rep. Jim Jordan interjected.

“Yes, really,” Schiff said.

“You’re going to include members of Congress on committees that have roles of impeachment — “ Gaetz said.

“Mr. Gaetz, take your statement to the press. They do no good here. So, please absent yourself,” Schiff said.

“You’re going to have someone remove me from the hearing?” Gaetz shot back.

“You’re going to remove yourself, Mr. Gaetz,” Schiff urged.

Gaetz then said he had “a right” to be there and asked Schiff to cite the rule that did not permit him to be present. The two argued for several more minutes as to whether Gaetz was allowed to be in the room, with Jordan defending his Republican colleague.

“Mr. Gaetz, why don’t you take your spectacle outside? This is not how we conduct ourselves in this committee,” Schiff said.

“I’ve seen how you’ve conducted yourself in this committee, and I’d like to be here to observe,” Gaetz said.

Schiff said the hearing would not continue until Gaetz left the room, and the time used up by the Republican congressman would be taken from the minority’s time for questioning. Gaetz left the room shortly after.



Rep. Gaetz (R FL) is on the House Judiciary Committee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_the_Judiciary

That would be relevant to impeachment, would it not?


This was a Schiff-led House intelligence Committee Hearing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Permanent_Select_Committee_on_Intelligence

Deposing a Russia expert in the NSC (name not disclosed. Fiona Hill? Alexander Vindman?). In the SCIF room, behind closed doors.

Rep. Jim Jordan, who objected to Schiff on Gaetz's behalf, sits on both committees.

The article lists the "three committees involved" in impeachment.

As cited by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Inquiry

 Quote:
On the evening of September 24, 2019, Pelosi announced that six committees of the House of Representatives would begin a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump. Pelosi accused Trump of betraying his oath of office, U.S. national security, and the integrity of the country's elections.[37][38][39] The six committees charged with the task were those on Financial Services, the Judiciary, Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, Oversight and Reform, and Ways and Means.[40]

In October 2019, three congressional committees (Intelligence, Oversight, and Foreign Affairs) deposed witnesses including Ambassador Taylor,[41] Laura Cooper (the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russian, Ukrainian and Eurasian affairs),[42] and former White House official Fiona Hill.[43] Witnesses testified that they believed that President Trump wanted Zelensky to publicly announce investigations into the Bidens and Burisma (a Ukrainian natural gas company on whose board Hunter Biden had served)[3][44] and 2016 election interference.[35] On October 8, in a letter from White House counsel Pat Cipollone to House speaker Pelosi, the White House officially responded that it would not cooperate with the investigation due to concerns including that there had not yet been a vote of the full House and that interviews of witnesses were being conducted behind closed doors.[45][46]


Rep. Gaetz is a member of the Judiciary Committee, is he not? One of the six committees involved in the impeachment inquiry.
And the Judiciary Committee is where the formal impeachment by the House was done after, was it not?
Yes.
So there's no logical reason why Gaetz, a Judiciary Committee member, would be excluded.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-12 5:41 AM
Gaetz wasn’t on the 3 committee’s though. And he was very much a part of Trump’s effort to try to derail, disrupt and delegitimize the hearings. You really are part of that too. Evidence and testimony was blocked by Trump and when it gets down to it we both know why he needed to that. Trump supporters now know how OJ fans could celebrate his acquittal.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-12 6:18 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Gaetz wasn’t on the 3 committee’s though. And he was very much a part of Trump’s effort to try to derail, disrupt and delegitimize the hearings. You really are part of that too. Evidence and testimony was blocked by Trump and when it gets down to it we both know why he needed to that. Trump supporters now know how OJ fans could celebrate his acquittal.


It wasn't reasonable or logical to exclude Gaetz from SCIF-room impeachment inquiry, when the proceedings were going to Gaetz's Judiciary Committee for impeachment immediately after.

Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-12 6:38 AM
Yeah if you want to pretend his whole intent wasn’t about disrupting, derailing and delegitimizingthe hearings and have no problem with Trump trying to obstruct every bit of evidence with support from most of the republicans. How credible or principled do you think you sound outside of the Trump circle jerk though?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-12 11:58 AM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Yeah if you want to pretend his whole intent wasn’t about disrupting, derailing and delegitimizingthe hearings and have no problem with Trump trying to obstruct every bit of evidence with support from most of the republicans. How credible or principled do you think you sound outside of the Trump circle jerk though?



Based on what?
Rep. Gaetz was in the room to listen to and observe the witness testify, and as a lawyer help the other Republicans and Trump lawyers strategize on how to go forward with the President's counter-defense.
By depriving Gaetz of the ability to attend the deposition, Comrade-Commissar Adam Schiff was depriving Gaetz and other Republicans knowledge of firsthand testimony and therefore less able to plan an adequate defense, where both sides would not have an equal knowledge of the facts in testimony. It gave Democrats a one-sided access to all the facts and testimony.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-20 5:03 PM


'WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU': Jim Jordan CALLS OUT Schiff For Knowing Who's The Whistleblower



I just happened to see this again, and it still makes me laugh, where Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) walks committee chair Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) into a trap, exposing Schiff as a liar.

In questioning Lt.Col. Vindman, Jordan walks through how there were only 3 people listening in on the Trump/Zelensky July 25th call: Morrison (Vindman's boss), Ms. Williams (seated next to Vindman here), and Vindman.
Morrison disclosed everyone he spoke to about the call.
Williams disclosed everyone she spoke to about the call.
Vindman refuses to disclose who he spoke to about the call. But assures everyone, scout's honor, that it was someone with security clearance to warrant hearing it.

Then Adam Schiff freaks out, that Jordan's questions will reveal who the whistleblower is.

As Jordan makes clear, if no one knows who the whistleblower is, how can these questions reveal the whistleblower?
JORDAN: "The witness [Vindman] has testified he doesn't know who the whistleblower is. [To Schiff] You have said even though no one believes you, that you don't know who the whistleblower is. So how is it revealing the whistleblower to know who this individual is [that Vindman spoke to]?"

But obviously Schiff does know who the whistleblower is, and that's why he was trying so hard not to have the whistleblower's name spoken, that would compel media coverage to reveal who he is [CIA analyst Eric Ciaramella, with ultra-Democrat-Left loyalties, and the chain of conspiracy between Ciaramella and Schiff's office]. And once known who he is and his partisan ideology, the Whistleblower would be discredited for the partisan conspirator that he is. And both him and Vindman might be up on charges for leaking top secret/confidential documents, and possibly other conspiracy charges.

Ciaramella also previously held Vindman's job at the NSC. Both of them rabid Democrat loyalists, moles inside the Trump White House and NSC.

It delights me to no end that Vindman and his brother (the latter of whom likely was part of the leaking of John Bolton's new book, one last smear by the treasonous rat brothers) were releived of their duties and escorted out of the NSC and White House. While still employed by the military, I hope their next assignment is a shit detail under an officer fiercely loyal to Trump.

But regardless, Rep Jordan did a splendid job of, if not outing the whistleblower, certainly outing Adam Schiff for the lying pile of steaming excrement that he is.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-02-27 4:27 AM



Trump addresses the nation on Senate impeachment acquittal - Feb 6, 2020



This wasn't posted yet when I mentioned it earlier. What the liberal media and Democrat pinheads portrayed as "dark" and "mean spirited" (CNN that I watched in the 15 minues immediately after), is actually at many points playful, funny, and mostly thanking the lawyers and House and Senate Republicans who helped him through the months of impeachment, many of whom he credits that he would not still be there if not for their efforts on his behalf.

And then not even 6 days later, Democrats opened up "Impeachment 3.0", their latest slander campaign against Trump.
I wish I could say I was surprised.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2020-04-25 4:31 AM



Rasmussen, daily Presidential tracking poll
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_apr24

Despite an overwhelmingly biased liberal media that gives him between 93% -100% negative coverage, despite a partisan FBI and DOJ that collaborated with the Hillary Clinton campaign/Fusion GPS/Christopher Steele/the Russians to slander Trump, despite the fraudulent FISA warrants that should never have been issued, and whose fraudulent origins should have had all surveillance thrown out of court by the FISA judges who authorized them. Despite the contrived and illegitimate Mueller special investigation made up of 17 partisan Trump-hating fanatics, despite whistlblower partisan Eric Ciaramella, despite the contrived impeachment, and even despite the Coronavirus outbreak the Democrats daily try to politicize... despite all this Trump more days than not has a net positive favorability rating. And at the very least is within the zone of 50%, even on his worst days.

As compared with Obama who the media adored, the media who was the wind at his back, who still on many days was lower in the polls than Trump, on any given day at the same point in Obama's presidency.

As Newt Gingrich said a few months ago: "I've never seen a president who had 93% negative coverage, and could still remain so high in the polls."
That's testament to how resonant Trump's message is to both his base, and to many independents and former Democrats. And how thoroughly disproven and untrustworthy the Democrats and the media are at this point. And really, at any point in the last three years.



Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Impeaching Trump - 2023-05-18 8:42 PM
.

Alexander Vindman Admits Making up Parts of Trump Call Summary


We kind of already intuitively knew that, didn't we?

Vindman and his Democrat-Bolshevik comrades were essentially Democrat moles, for years, undermining the Obama-expanded NSC, who stayed to leak in the Trump administration, leaking to damage and embarass the Trump administration. Until the Trump administration saw what Obama had pit in place, and newly appointed national security advisor cleaned out the rat'ss nest Obama had appointed to the NSC.

Vindman's complaint, falsely accusing Trump of a bullying phone call to incoming Ukraine president Zelenskyy, was a lie, a contrived false accusation against Trump.

We know now that , far from one guy named Vindman, the initial complaint was not one guy, but an amalgam of stuff contrived by both Alexander Vindman, and Eric Ciaramella.

And we know now that even the collaborated false"whistleblower" complaint against Trump, weaponized as a contrived basis for impeachment (at this point we can call it "impeachment 1 of Trump") by Vindman (and Ciaramella) wasn't neutrally submitted, but was brainstormed out of Rep. Adam Schiff's office, and the final complaint was drafted by a team of leftist lawyers in Adam Schiff's office, drafted for weeks. It wasn't neutrally reported to both House Democrats and Republicans at once, it was created and weaponized completely from Schiff's office.

And none of these NSC staffers, not Schiff, not his lawyer team, not the assisting conspirators at the CIA such as Ginaa Haspel, ever paid any price for this deception.
Nor have Mike Morell, John Brennan and others for even further abuses revealed since then.
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