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Biden's mouth gets in way of presidencyThey say one thing standing between Joe Biden and the White House is Joe Biden's mouth.
The would-be presidential candidate proved that again on a recent trip to New Hampshire. In a video clip spreading rapidly across the Internet, C-Span cameras captured the Delaware Democrat talking cheerfully to an Indian-American political activist about his state's fast-growing Indian-American population.
Biden said, "You cannot go into a Dunkin' Donuts or a 7-Eleven unless you have a slight Indian accent."
Biden has since apologized for the incident. "Real mature," he told a New Hampshire newspaper during a Fourth of July swing through the state.
The footage, which aired as part of C-Span's "Road to the White House" series, was taken June 17.
Biden, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was on his way to Iraq on Thursday and unavailable for comment. Interestingly, he was traveling with a supply of Dunkin' Donuts coffee -- a treat for the troops.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him (a marked change from Dubya).
Come on...if Bush had said was Biden did about Indians working in 7-11s, you'd be having a fit.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him (a marked change from Dubya).
More "dignity" from Biden:
Speaking to a group of 130 twenty- and thirty-something supporters of his leadership PAC last Thursday, Biden indicated that while he thinks he could be an effective chief executive, as far as the job itself goes, he could take it or leave it.
“I’d rather be at home making love to my wife while my children are asleep,” he said.
Not to gainsay Biden's conjugal elation, but this is really too much information. Democrats are always talking about the "right to privacy." Can't they exercise it once in a while? Besides, as State29 notes, "Biden's youngest child is 25."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him (a marked change from Dubya).
Come on...if Bush had said was Biden did about Indians working in 7-11s, you'd be having a fit.
Classic G-man. You took the post and then applied it to another thread to make someone look bad.
I was asked what democrats look good for president. I said, even in the part you quoted, that i hadn't looked fully at his record and was going from a few speeches i had seen. Are you saying he's not smart? Are you saying when he speaks he doesn't have dignity?
If so, maybe there's a debate to be had, otherwise you're wasting your time and trying to pick a fight like the petty bitch that you are (IMHO).
Also there are WAY too many misquotes and offensive statements from Bush/Cheney for you to be debating on that argument.
Be gone, G-man. Before someone drops a house on you too.
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You said that Biden had an "air of dignity" about him.
I simply directed you to a thread about Biden in order to discern whether you found his comments consistent with said "air of dignity."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
You said that Biden had an "air of dignity" about him.
I simply directed you to a thread about Biden in order to discern whether you found his comments consistent with said "air of dignity."
I think in general neocons attack people for having any slight mis-statement or slip up, but will defend till your dying breath anne coulter who never actually takes back her purposefully venomous and rather evil statements.
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The reason Democrats despise Ann Coulter so much is because she utilizes the emotionally-charged rhetorical style of Democrats, and directs it back at them.
The difference is, Ann Coulter has facts and an intelligent thesis to back up her outlandish statements.
I think Coulter could make the same points, while still making the point with less inflammatory words. But then the liberal media would just ignore her, as they do so many level headed conservative commentators. It's her razor-edged words that keep her in the public limelight and talked about by both sides, and recurrently on the New York Times bestseller list.
I don't agree with everything Coulter says, particularly her sweeping stereotyping of liberals that contributes to the schism in this country. But unquestionably, she is very intelligent, and she knows how to work the media, as opposed to letting the media work and define her.
Regarding Biden, I had more respect for him before the Iraq war began. Biden is one of the more credible Democrat voices on foreign policy and military concerns. So on that level, I'd consider him a viable candidate.
I wouldn't dismiss Biden based on one unfortunate remark he made. Unlike Howard Dean, who makes stupid remarks almost every day.
But that remark of Biden's :"You cannot go into a Dunkin' Donuts or a 7-Eleven unless you have a slight Indian accent."
Man, that's the most boneheaded thing a Democrat has said since Howard Dean, during the 2004 campaign, stereotyped Southerners as all having pickup trucks with gun-racks in the window.
This, from the oh-so-self-lauded "party of tolerance".
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
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r3x29yz4a said:I think in general neocons attack people for having any slight mis-statement or slip up, but will defend till your dying breath anne coulter who never actually takes back her purposefully venomous and rather evil statements.
Unlike Biden, Republicans aren't running Coulter for any elected office. In fact, I'm unaware of any republicans particulary enamored of the idea of her running for any in the future.
Biden, of course, is a high ranking democratic official, pondering a run for the highest office in the land. I think we should all be able to agree that we should hold our elected officials of either party to a higher standard than we hold our independent commentators.
Furthermore, if you bother to re-read recent posts in the Coulter thread, I said that I thought her comments were inappropriate. Therefore, rebutting with "oh, yeah, what about Ann Coulter" doesn't really get you that far.
In contrast, you, Ray, are the one who decided to discuss Biden, not in terms of experience, not in terms of objectives, but in terms of whether or not he has an air of dignity that you find lacking in President Bush.
Therefore, why would you object when we look at what sort of comments he makes as part of that "air"? Why would you object when we look at his comments in terms of whether they are more or less dignified that the Presidents?
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Does the President really need dignity? After the Clinton administration, I'd say as long as he can run the country in a marginally effective way, who cares about dignity. As goofy as Clinton and Dubya sometimes seem, did you see those clips of the Prime Minister of Japan on the Daily Show a week or two back?
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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Quote:
the G-man said:
In contrast, you, Ray, are the one who decided to discuss Biden, not in terms of experience, not in terms of objectives, but in terms of whether or not he has an air of dignity that you find lacking in President Bush.
I said he was smart, which you haven't refuted. And I compared his dignity to dubya and cheney.
I never said he's never made a faux pas, but its the exception rather than the rule.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him (a marked change from Dubya).
(emphasis added)
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I just posted this link to another topic, of yesterday's NBC Meet the Press broadcast, for another segment later in the broadcast.
But it is perhaps even more appropriate to this Joseph Biden topic. It begins with a 33-minute panel discussion by Russert, Newt Gingrich and Sen Joseph Biden.
Where Biden gives a detailed breakdown of what needs to be done regarding Israel/Lebanon/Syria/Hamas/Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.
Again, I see Biden as one of the more credible Democrats on military and foreign policy issues, and this interview did nothing to change my opinion on that. When Biden complains about Bush policy, he offers constructive criticism, and a specific alternative course of action. As opposed to so many other Democrats, who just whine incessantly.
Gingrich and Biden both made some powerful statements, regarding how the U.S. should handle these crises.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
And here's Mr. Hee-haw.
If you were a foreigner (or even an american) who would you respect more?
I'm an American, who thinks you're a partisan jerkoff, who cherry-picks and posts the absolute worst representations of Bush at every opportunity, so you can rationalize the hate you have for Bush, no matter what the facts.
I wouldn't hold up a doctored blooper-reel as evidence of Biden's idiocy, even if I believed he was an idiot.
But you have no reservations about doing so to Bush.
The level of venom and sneering contempt that you, and so many Democrats have for Bush, and for Republicans in general, makes it impossible to take your arguments seriously.
Fortunately for Biden, he doesn't represent your attitude.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
And here's Mr. Hee-haw.
If you were a foreigner (or even an american) who would you respect more?
I'm an American, who thinks you're a partisan jerkoff, who cherry-picks and posts the absolute worst representations of Bush at every opportunity, so you can rationalize the hate you have for Bush, no matter what the facts.
I wouldn't hold up a doctored blooper-reel as evidence of Biden's idiocy, even if I believed he was an idiot.
But you have no reservations about doing so to Bush.
The level of venom and sneering contempt that you, and so many Democrats have for Bush, and for Republicans in general, makes it impossible to take your arguments seriously.
Fortunately for Biden, he doesn't represent your attitude.
its hardly "edited" the way you imply. those are all real clips that are shown and the dialogue is unaltered. you just have your frilly panties in a bunch because you have no post where Bush comes off as anything but an idiot (well, maybe you have one where he looks just simple-minded).
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So, basically, Ray's argument for Biden boils down to "at least he's not an idiot..." Oh, how far, the once mighty democratic party has fallen... 
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The Bush cheerleaders must have forotten who they voted for. Or perhaps they just hold Dems to a higher standard? 
Fair play!
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No, however, we don't consider our President an idiot and never did.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
No, however, we don't consider our President an idiot and never did.
No, but you certainly seem to have no basis of comparison if it crosses a partisan line. I'm sure Biden has said some dumb things in the past but Bush has a long history of saying dumb things. If you can live & love a President who says dumb stuff all the time, why on earth would you think a couple of dumb things that Biden said would be an issue for anyone?
Fair play!
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I, personally, don't.
However, Ray was saying that he liked Biden over Bush because Biden had an "air of dignity" that he didn't think Bush had. So I simply pointed out that Biden had said some things that were at least as "undignified" as Bush.
If "you" (the Democrats) and the media are going to continue to treat every misstatement or minor gaffe as some sort of "smoking gun" to demonstrate presidential unfitness or idiocy, then you can't complain when "your" side's gaffes get similar examination.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I, personally, don't.
However, Ray was saying that he liked Biden over Bush because Biden had an "air of dignity" that he didn't think Bush had. So I simply pointed out that Biden had said some things that were at least as "undignified" as Bush.
yeah he had a few dumb lines, or mispeaks here and there. its far cry from the daily idiocy bush puts out.
Quote:
If "you" (the Democrats) and the media are going to continue to treat every misstatement or minor gaffe as some sort of "smoking gun" to demonstrate presidential unfitness or idiocy, then you can't complain when "your" side's gaffes get similar examination.
its not like we're harping on a single thing and then misrepresenting it (like "i voted for it before i voted against it" line which ignores what he was saying). bush makes a fool out of himself nearly every time he speaks.
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Here's the main point, however, Ray.
Even if we were to concede your "Bush is an idiot" premise, it seems as if that's all you've got.
Take your stance on Biden. You haven't named a single thing about the man's policies or record that appeal to you. At best you've said (paraphrasing) that he's more dignified that Bush.
You consider Bush an idiot.
Therefore, you've said, in effect, that you like Biden simply because he's more dignified than an idiot.
And, when anyone criticizes Biden here, rather than point out something positive about Biden you again fall back on (paraphrasing) "yeah, well, I still think Bush is an idiot.")
So, again, when push comes to shove on Biden, the best you come up with is that (paraphrasing) he's better than an idiot.
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement is it?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Here's the main point, however, Ray.
no, fuckhead. you don't get the point because you shift things around and ignore what's said so you can "correct" us.
Quote:
Even if we were to concede your "Bush is an idiot" premise, it seems as if that's all you've got.
Take your stance on Biden. You haven't named a single thing about the man's policies or record that appeal to you. At best you've said (paraphrasing) that he's more dignified that Bush.
look, assface. the question was asked "are there any democrats you'd like to see run." i had recently seen biden in an interview where he gave this very long and interesting rundown on iraq. more than "they hate us for our freedom" he explained the cultural problems going back generations. so i threw his name in there.
you whined that he made a comment about indians in dunkin doughnuts. and i posted his video response. as i said in my first post, i don't know the man's complete history and i was just kicking his name in because of that interview and because throughout the program he said a lot of smart things. i want my president to at least read at an adult level and communicate well.
Quote:
You consider Bush an idiot.
going only by his interviews, press conferences, statements, actions.
i haven't looked at his christian heart though.
Quote:
Therefore, you've said, in effect, that you like Biden simply because he's more dignified than an idiot.
um, ok. i said a smart president would be a refreshing change after the idiocy of bush.
Quote:
And, when anyone criticizes Biden here, rather than point out something positive about Biden you again fall back on (paraphrasing) "yeah, well, I still think Bush is an idiot.")
i posted biden's video response. which is better to have him defend himself then do your approach and post some long ass op-ed or rewrite what people say to misrepresent them.
i realize you don't have this option because when bush defends himself its word salad.
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So, again, when push comes to shove on Biden, the best you come up with is that (paraphrasing) he's better than an idiot.
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement is it?
you're an idiot. and a "major asshole" who can "go fuck yourself."
those are cheney quotes, by the way.
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So...when push comes to shove on Biden, the second best you can come up with is that (paraphrasing) Cheney has a potty mouth?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
So...when push comes to shove on Biden, the second best you can come up with is that (paraphrasing) Cheney has a potty mouth?
have you ever wondered if maybe you don't win arguments, you just argue so idiotically and mangle so many points that the person gets annoyed with you and just stops bothering?
I mean, honestly G-man, its like arguing with a 2 year old.
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In the case at hand, as noted before, rather than talk about Biden, you keep attacking Bush and, now, Cheney.
I realize that others have tried to explain this to you in the past and you have ignored them also, but neither Bush nor (presumably) Cheney will be running in 2008.
Furthermore, even when they were running (in 2004) a "I hate Bush" platform didn't work then, so why are you sticking with it in 2008?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
In the case at hand, as noted before, rather than talk about Biden, you keep attacking Bush and, now, Cheney.
I realize that others have tried to explain this to you in the past and you have ignored them also, but neither Bush nor (presumably) Cheney will be running in 2008.
Furthermore, even when they were running (in 2004) a "I hate Bush" platform didn't work then, so why are you sticking with it in 2008?
See, what you're doing here G-bitch is trying to push the topic to a strict place where you can control and attack someone. However since your problems are my initial statement comparing Biden to Bush then I have every valid reason to point out how undignified and idiotic Bush is to prove my point.
Here, Bush cracks wise even when asked a serious question where lives are at stake.
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In case anyone misinterpreted what r3x29yz4a said:
I even said I like Biden and consider him one of the more eligible Democrat candidates, with a good understanding of military and foreign policy, who as an opposition voice to Bush, at least offers constructive criticism and alternative policies.
I largely agreed with you and said Biden is a decent candidate.
And for that, you launched into one of your characteristic infantile tantrums, and called me a "fuckface", "asshole", and made some wild assumptions about my choice of underpants.
If you want a little respect, r3x, why don't you try debating on the merits of the issue, instead of grade-school insults?
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According to the title of the thread, the topic is "Joe Biden in 2008".
But you keep trying to change the subject into another attack on Bush.
Seriously, Ray, get a new pony. The one you have now has only one trick and its getting really old.
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And Bush will be the issue until January 20th, 2009. At which point he will no longer be bumbling across the reputation of the country and pissing away the lives of people worldwide.
Another thread asked for the name of a democrat we wouldn't mind running, I mentioned Joe Biden as a smart guy with dignity. Now stop harping on one misspeak where he still held himself better than Bush ever has and stop being such a fucking cunt.
Why you're still a moderator on this forum when all you do is waste our time with your endless bullshit is beyond me.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
According to the title of the thread, the topic is "Joe Biden in 2008".
But you keep trying to change the subject into another attack on Bush.
Seriously, Ray, get a new pony. The one you have now has only one trick and its getting really old.
You bumped this thread when I brought up Biden's name on another thread.
I honestly don't know if you're doing these idiotic things purposefully or you're just a fucking retard.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
In case anyone misinterpreted what r3x29yz4a said:
I even said I like Biden and consider him one of the more eligible Democrat candidates, with a good understanding of military and foreign policy, who as an opposition voice to Bush, at least offers constructive criticism and alternative policies.
I largely agreed with you and said Biden is a decent candidate.
And for that, you launched into one of your characteristic infantile tantrums, and called me a "fuckface", "asshole", and made some wild assumptions about my choice of underpants.
If you want a little respect, r3x, why don't you try debating on the merits of the issue, instead of grade-school insults?
I implied you wore panties but haven't insulted you here otherwise. I'm taking issue with G-bitch because he took a comment I made on another thread, quoted it here and now claims that we can only discuss Biden. However my initial comment that he used compared him to Bush but G-cunt is trying as he always does to manipulate the conversation to make it easier on him.
Quite frankly, I'm not in the mood for his shit, and i'm not letting him get away with his bullshit.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
You bumped this thread when I brought up Biden's name on another thread.
I'm sorry, Ray. I didn't realize that you were in charge of deciding which threads should or shouldn't be bumped.
You were talking about Biden on one thread. Your comments reminded me of something on an existing thread DEVOTED TO BIDEN. So I bumped that thread.
Look, Ray, it isn't my fault that you said Biden had an "air of dignity" without having bothered to read the earlier thread. Maybe if, as discussed previously, you tried researching your points once in a while, instead of just churning our "RayFactsTM" without substantiation, you wouldn't have this problem.
Also, if your arguments and reasoning about a topic are so shakey that we can't bring up that reasoning on a RELATED thread without your screaming "unfair," then maybe you should rethink the merits of your position.
Oh, and no one said you could ONLY discuss Biden (even though the THREAD IS ABOUT BIDEN). I just noted that its a pretty damn weak endorsement for him that all you can do is keep going back to how much you hate Bush.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
You bumped this thread when I brought up Biden's name on another thread.
I'm sorry, Ray. I didn't realize that you were in charge of deciding which threads should or shouldn't be bumped.
well, technically i posted a comment on another thread that you used to bump this one.
also, as stated many times, my comment was in regards to biden compared to bush and called biden intelligent. you have yet to disprove his intellect or to show bush being dignified at all.
now, i've posted biden's own video response to the doughnut thing (which is pretty fucking small shit), and i've posted plenty of videos showing bush the bafoon.
you have chosen to harp on a minor bit of the biden angle claiming this thread is about biden (despite, again, this thread being bumped by my quote which compared the two), and ignoring bush all together.
Quote:
You were talking about Biden on one thread. Your comments reminded me of something on an existing thread DEVOTED TO BIDEN. So I bumped that thread.
Look, Ray, it isn't my fault that you said Biden had an "air of dignity" without having bothered to read the earlier thread. Maybe if, as discussed previously, you tried researching your points once in a while, instead of just churning our "RayFactsTM" without substantiation, you wouldn't have this problem.
Also, if your arguments and reasoning about a topic are so shakey that we can't bring up that reasoning on a RELATED thread without your screaming "unfair," then maybe you should rethink the merits of your position.
You know, I really don't think you've proven he's undignified at all. He made an offhand comment and apologised. That's actually pretty dignified. Watch the video I posted of him explaining himself, that's more than Bush has ever done. Hell, I've posted videos of Bush showing how undignified he is.
I've actually one this one, G-bitch. Pack up your ball and go home.
Bow ties are coool.
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You might have "won," if you had stuck to talking about the topic of the thread, Biden, but you keep bringing up Bush now, rather than Biden.
That, and how "unfair" (paraphrase) I was to cite your comments about Biden on a thread about Biden.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
You might have "won," if you had stuck to talking about the topic of the thread, Biden, but you keep bringing up Bush now, rather than Biden.
That, and how "unfair" (paraphrase) I was to cite your comments about Biden on a thread about Biden.
Can you fucking read?
I've said so many times that this was all based on my comment about how Biden had dignity in comparison to Bush.
Read the thread. Watch the videos.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
the G-man said (paraphrase):
So, basically, Ray's argument for Biden boils down to "at least he's not [Bush]..."
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r3x29yz4a said (in pertinent part):
...this was all based on my comment about how Biden had dignity in comparison to Bush.
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r3x29yz4a should have just come right out and said :
The G-Man always wins. Don't ever question The G-man.
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brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
[Can you fucking read?
I've said so many times that this was all based on my comment about how Biden had dignity in comparison to Bush.
Read the thread. Watch the videos.
Can you read?
The title of the topic is: "Joe Biden in 2008?"
All you can offer is grade-school profanity and personal insults.
The video you offer is all partisan fluff (with one exception, where Biden answered the Indian-Americans in every 7-11 comment in a CNN clip).
I've offered more of substance so far on Joseph Biden than you have.
Anyone who came to this topic expecting any discussion of substance on Biden has stopped reading at this point.
All you've offered is "Fuck you, asshole, fuckface, etc., etc." and "Bush is an idiot".
Quite frankly, if Bush is an idiot, he could still out-debate you !
Regarding G-man posting to the Biden topic, I don't see any foul on his part.
When I posted a comment regarding John McCain as a candidate, I similarly resurrected the McCain topic, rather begin or add to a more generic 2008 election topic.
Here's another 10-minute appearance by Joseph Biden, with Sen Jack Reed, on PBS News Hour from last week, discussing the Iraq war, sectarian violence and long term strategy in Iraq:
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Can you read?
The title of the topic is: "Joe Biden in 2008?"
G-man used a quote of mine from another thread where I compared Biden to Bush. He therefore made it a valid part of this thread.
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All you can offer is grade-school profanity and personal insults.
The video you offer is all partisan fluff (with one exception, where Biden answered the Indian-Americans in every 7-11 comment in a CNN clip).
Its not partisan to show clips of Bush being an idiot. Its called showing the way it is.
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I'm offered more of substance so far on Joseph Biden than you have.
and your medal will arrive Friday for your brave act.
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Anyone who came to this topic expecting any discussion of substance on Biden has stopped reading at this point.
yeah, because no one here expects things to get silly.
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All you've offered is "Fuck you, asshole, fuckface, etc., etc." and "Bush is an idiot".
to G-man. I've been nicer to you.
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Quite frankly, if Bush is an idiot, he could still out-debate you !
you forgot about poland!!
Bush is pretty wimpy when faced with a real argument.
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Regarding G-man posting to the Biden topic, I don't see any foul on his part.
and neither would I if you and he hadn't kept claiming this has nothing to do with Bush. My comment that he used was about Biden compared to Bush.
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When I posted a comment regarding John McCain as a candidate, I similarly resurrected the McCain topic, rather begin or add to a more generic 2008 election topic.
well if you actually read the threads, you'd see the liberals here generally offer real debate. you and g-man generally rehash the same shit without reading what was said.
in fact i can bet you that one of you will rehash your arguments or cut up my quotes to make some pointless point.
Bow ties are coool.
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