Bsams was using a tweet from somebody who claimed to know the shooter. That's hardly been verified. Looking at the tantrum/shitfit conservatives are throwing I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't turn out to be anything. Now he's being linked to a group from the far right.
I cited that as one example. I've seen at least two other people interviewed who said the same thing about the shooter.
This whole thing reminds me of when that guy flew a plane into a Texas office building and the libs were all set to proclaim him a tea partier too...until it turned out he was left winger.
Same with that lefty college professor who shot up a campus.
given the reaction of the partisan left so far, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the administration attempt to use the thing to advance their objectives.
Look for new regulations to censor talk radio and police the internet, attempts to circumvent the second amendment and even pleas to stop repeal of Obamacare because it "dishonors" Giffords.
That's what I've been saying since Obama was elected.
The Left is deliberately trying to provoke a violent right-wing response. And the overwhelming majority of right-wingers are smart enough to see it, and are not taking the bait.
As I've been saying for 2 years: If there is a true act of right-wing violence, Obama will use it to enact a state of emergency to do a complete lockdown on conservative dissent. It's exactly what Obama wants.
Also likely is the liberal insinuation of right-wing culpability for violence, without the evidence of actual conservative responsibility.
I also wouldn't dismiss the possibility of a false-flag operation, where Obama or other auxiliary elements of the left connected to him would commit violence themselves and make it look like right wingers did it, to justify a lockdown on dissent.
This whole thing reminds me of when that guy flew a plane into a Texas office building and the libs were all set to proclaim him a tea partier too...until it turned out he was left winger.
Same with that lefty college professor who shot up a campus.
Yes.
Amazing how the violence consistently comes from the Left, and yet the media keeps blaming Tea Party rhetoric.
This whole thing reminds me of when that guy flew a plane into a Texas office building and the libs were all set to proclaim him a tea partier too...until it turned out he was left winger.
Same with that lefty college professor who shot up a campus.
Who can forget William Ayers blowing up police stations? (rhetorical, I know MEM has)
Quite frankly, I find anyone trying to label this guy as right wing or left wing as being an asshole. The guy was plain fucking nuts. His ideology was all over the place and inconsistent. He was simply a crazy, homicidal bastard.
He's certainly crazy but doesn't that go hand in hand with somebody from the political fringe who is willing to attempt to assinate an elected official? I do agree though that it's too early to say he's a right wing nut job but if more stuff comes out with the anti-immigration group that might change.
That's a retarded comment, M E M. Because she was one of the most ardent supporters and advocates of border enforcement, particularly for a Democrat. She fought hard for border security, not against it. So your slandering it as conservatives who targeted her for violence rings completely untrue. It would be the left, open-borders crowd, and Mexican drug cartels who would logically target Giffords for her stance on immigration.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Quite frankly, I find anyone trying to label this guy as right wing or left wing as being an asshole. The guy was plain fucking nuts. His ideology was all over the place and inconsistent. He was simply a crazy, homicidal bastard.
He's certainly crazy but doesn't that go hand in hand with somebody from the political fringe who is willing to attempt to assinate an elected official? I do agree though that it's too early to say he's a right wing nut job but if more stuff comes out with the anti-immigration group that might change.
You are such a tool. He read both Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto. He was someone who thought he had it all figured out but had no consistent logic in his belief system. Also, most right wingers aren't anti-immigration. That's more of the Olbermann/Media Matters bullshit propaganda.
It's obvious why liberals read the Communist Manifesto. Since they are socialists and that is the bible of socialism.
Less obvious is why a leftist reads an ostensibly right-wing book such as Hitler's Mein Kampf. It is an instructional book for leftist tactics of slander, violence and intimidation to achieve political victory. And though lefties like to label Nazism as a right-wing ideology, it is in fact a militant left-wing doctrine. National Socialism is, in fact, socialism. State control of industry and the economy.
You are such a tool. He read both Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto. He was someone who thought he had it all figured out but had no consistent logic in his belief system. Also, most right wingers aren't anti-immigration. That's more of the Olbermann/Media Matters bullshit propaganda.
Communists and Nazis are the same thing: liberals.
That's what bsams told us, and I have great faith in him.
Just skip over that whole WWII thing, it really has no basis at all.
The Chinese and Soviet Russia have fought too.
Just because they're two socialist nations doesn't mean they're on the same team.
You should know you fucked up when you're on the same page as WB.
The group in question is so anti-immigration it resembles nothing that Giffords supports.
What mythical group are you talking about? You've been slandering Sarah Palin and the Tea Party for 6 pages now, are you suddenly backpedalling and shifting your accusation onto another group?
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person unconsciously denies their own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.[1]
Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.
An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and redirect their libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same faults onto another.
The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud - in his letters to Wilhelm Fliess, '"Draft H" deals with projection as a mechanism of defence'[2] - and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud; for this reason, it is sometimes referred to as Freudian Projection.[3]
I'm willing to bet Rex knows a lot about projection. And has received considerable counseling for it.
It's official, the Sheriff in this case is a loon. Megyn Kelly just asked him what he meant by saying political vitriol on radio and tv has caused this? He said there was no direct connection. She asked for examples, he said we have one party in this country that has tried to block another from making this country better. What is this guy still doing on the case?
Fidel Castro has denounced as "atrocious" a shooting attack on a U.S. lawmaker that left six people dead and the legislator in critical condition.
The Cuban revolutionary icon says in an opinion piece that even those, like him, who frequently disagree with the United States would never want to see violence like the attack Saturday in Tucson, Arizona, that left Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, fighting for her life.
The dead included a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl. Thirteen people were wounded, 10 seriously.
"Even those of us who don't share at all the politics and philosophies (of the Obama administration) sincerely desire that no children, judges, legislators or citizens of the United States die in such an absurd and unjustifiable way," Castro wrote Sunday in a state media article.
It's official, the Sheriff in this case is a loon. Megyn Kelly just asked him what he meant by saying political vitriol on radio and tv has caused this? He said there was no direct connection. She asked for examples, he said we have one party in this country that has tried to block another from making this country better. What is this guy still doing on the case?
He's an elected official. There's nothing stopping him from being biased. Hopefully the voters in his county will take him out during the next election for trying to politicize this tragedy.
Court documents ...show that Loughner had contact with Giffords in the past... evidence included a letter addressed to him from Giffords' congressional stationery in which she thanked him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at a mall in Tucson in 2007.
More evidence this guy is a John Hinckley/David Chapman type stalker if you ask me.
Fidel Castro has denounced as "atrocious" a shooting attack on a U.S. lawmaker that left six people dead and the legislator in critical condition.
The Cuban revolutionary icon says in an opinion piece that even those, like him, who frequently disagree with the United States would never want to see violence like the attack Saturday in Tucson, Arizona, that left Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, fighting for her life.
The dead included a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl. Thirteen people were wounded, 10 seriously.
"Even those of us who don't share at all the politics and philosophies (of the Obama administration) sincerely desire that no children, judges, legislators or citizens of the United States die in such an absurd and unjustifiable way," Castro wrote Sunday in a state media article.
Because Fidel Castro has never shot any of his political opponents.
You should know you fucked up when you're on the same page as WB.
The group in question is so anti-immigration it resembles nothing that Giffords supports.
What mythical group are you talking about? You've been slandering Sarah Palin and the Tea Party for 6 pages now, are you suddenly backpedalling and shifting your accusation onto another group?
I was referring to the American Renasiance group. Saying I slandered Palin is a lie. There isn't even an implication by me that she was directly involved in the assanination attempt.
It appears the liberal hate site Daily Kos was posting hateful things about Gabbe Gifford as late as 11 AM Thursday. They scrubbed the article after the shooting but thanks to internet cache you can still view it:
My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
by BoyBlue Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:07:17 AM PST
I am from the Tucson area and live in Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords' district. I worked like a dog for her elections when she was in the Arizona House, surrounded by rightwing nutcases. When Arizona re-districted in 2002, a seat opened up and she was right smack in the middle of it. So was I because I live in Oro Valley, Arizona, which is at the heart of that - then - new CD. I was one of several people to talk her into running and pledging complete loyalty and pledging to raise as much money as possible for her.
She ended up running for the first time against a fellow AZ House member, Randy Graf who was a rightwing whacko who advocated guns in bars and was the "Russell Pearce before Russell Pearce" vis-a-vis border issues. With a LOT of hard work and plenty of money, Gabby won. Easier than thought, too. I never like to throw money in people's faces, but i have given Gabrielle Giffords THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in both good times and bad times for me financially.
* BoyBlue's diary :: :: *
Fast forward to this election season. A weirdo asshole named Jesse Kelly who advocated ELIMINATING Social Security and was a tea bagger favorite got the GOP nom to run against her. I am gay and had been married and my spouse left me January 15, 2010. I shot myself in the mouth in a serious suicide attempt, because of that. Barely surviving, I spent two months in the hospital and still have some paralysis. I did receive a severance from my employer, as i had been laid off in December, 2009. That may have been part of the reason my spouse left me.
Anyway, after months of physical and mental rehab, I got back into the political scene and started working for Gabby once again. I raised over $100,000 for her and maxed her out myself out of my severance, even though i still don't have work and could not qualify for state aid because of my severance.
She wins her re-election and told me she was still a supporter of Speaker Pelosi at her victory party. We talked about how Nancy Pelosi was a successful woman and accomplished oh so much in just four years as Speaker.
Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???
Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.
"Tea Party Nation") is currently circulating an e-mail ordering his followers (all 21 of them) to "(urge) tea party supporters to blame liberals for the attack on centrist Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, who was shot through the head and is now fighting for her life, as a means of defending the tea party movement's recent electoral gains." He insists that when people refer to the shooter, they refer to him as a lunatic liberal with emphasis on BOTH words. ...
It appears the liberal hate site Daily Kos was posting hateful things about Gifford as late as 11 AM Thursday. They scrubbed the article after the shooting but thanks to internet cache you can still view it
To be fair, much like the "targeting the opposition" rhetoric that both sides have always used, this was clearly metaphor and not an actual call for violence.
Of course, the left will never admit both sides use these metaphors, since it gets in the way of their attempts to politicize the shooting.
Accused gunman Jared Lee Loughner appeared to have been long obsessed with U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
A safe at Mr. Loughner's home contained a form letter from Ms. Giffords' office thanking him for attending a 2007 "Congress on your Corner'' event in Tucson....
Mr. Loughner had complained to a friend about how he was treated by the Arizona lawmaker during an event several years ago, which aggravated Mr. Loughner, according to the friend....
Interviews with people who knew Mr. Loughner suggest the shooting followed a slow unraveling in the life of a seemingly peaceful young man.
Mr. Loughner was a scrawny, average teenager with a mop of curly hair. He played saxophone at football games and jammed with a friend's garage band. In his freshman and sophomore years at Mountain View High School, Mr. Loughner flew under the radar.
"All he did was play video games and play music," said Tommy Marriotti, a high school friend. Mr. Marriotti said much of Mr. Loughner's free time was devoted to the school band. He wasn't especially political, Mr. Marriotti said, though he expressed frustration with the Bush Administration.
"The thing is, the way that she has it depicted -- the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district -- when people do that, they've got to realize that there's consequences for that action,"- Giffords
You should know you fucked up when you're on the same page as WB.
The group in question is so anti-immigration it resembles nothing that Giffords supports.
What mythical group are you talking about? You've been slandering Sarah Palin and the Tea Party for 6 pages now, are you suddenly backpedalling and shifting your accusation onto another group?
I was referring to the American Renasiance group. Saying I slandered Palin is a lie. There isn't even an implication by me that she was directly involved in the assanination attempt.
Who the fuck is "American Renaisance Group" ?!?
And you've implied if not stated that right-wing political opposition rhetoric is to blame for the Giffords shooting. (Despite that the kid, if not just insane or politically confused, has been described by others who knew him as "left leaning".)
I'm content to chalk it up to pure craziness and not assign political blame. But my points are :
1) If blame is to be assigned, this guy has been described by those who knew him as left-leaning, so attributing it to conservative rhetoric is pure and unfounded slander
and
2) Democrats and the leftist media have a habit of trying to pin every random shooting like this on conservatives.
Rep. Robert Brady, D-Pennsylvania, said he will introduce legislation making it a federal crime for a person to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a Member of Congress or federal official.
Brady’s decision to offer the legislation comes less than 24 hours after a gunman attempted to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona, in a shooting that claimed the lives of a federal judge, and a nine year-old girl, among others.
“The president is a federal official,” Brady said in a telephone interview with CNN. “You can’t do it to him; you should not be able to do it to a congressman, senator or federal judge.
“This is not a wake up call, this is major alarms going off,” he said.
Brady is particularly incensed over a web posting by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin during the 2010 election in which she targeted 20 House Democrats, including Giffords for political defeat. The posting showed a map of the United States with the 20 Democratic congressional districts identified by gun sights.
“You can’t put bulls eyes or crosshairs on a United States congressman or a federal official,” Brady said. “I understand this web site that had it on there is no longer in existence. Someone is feeling a little guilty.”
On November 5, 2009, Maj. Nidal Hasan opened fire at a troop readiness center in Ft. Hood, Texas, killing 13 people. Within hours of the killings, the world knew that Hasan reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he began shooting, visited websites associated with Islamist violence, wrote Internet postings justifying Muslim suicide bombings, considered U.S. forces his enemy, opposed American involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars on Islam, and told a neighbor shortly before the shootings that he was going "to do good work for God." There was ample evidence, in other words, that the Ft. Hood attack was an act of Islamist violence.
Nevertheless, public officials, journalists, and commentators were quick to caution that the public should not "jump to conclusions" about Hasan's motive. CNN, in particular, became a forum for repeated warnings that the subject should be discussed with particular care.
"The important thing is for everyone not to jump to conclusions," said retired Gen. Wesley Clark on CNN the night of the shootings.
"We cannot jump to conclusions," said CNN's Jane Velez-Mitchell that same evening. "We have to make sure that we do not jump to any conclusions whatsoever."
"I'm on Pentagon chat room," said former CIA operative Robert Baer on CNN, also the night of the shooting. "Right now, there's messages going back and forth, saying do not jump to the conclusion this had anything to do with Islam."
The next day, President Obama underscored the rapidly-forming conventional wisdom when he told the country, "I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts." In the days that followed, CNN jouralists and guests repeatedly echoed the president's remarks.
"We can't jump to conclusions," Army Gen. George Casey said on CNN November 8. The next day, political analyst Mark Halperin urged a "transparent" investigation into the shootings "so the American people don't jump to conclusions." And when Republican Rep. Pete Hoekstra, then the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, suggested that the Ft. Hood attack was terrorism, CNN's John Roberts was quick to intervene. "Now, President Obama has asked people to be very cautious here and to not jump to conclusions," Roberts said to Hoekstra. "By saying that you believe this is an act of terror, are you jumping to a conclusion?"
Fast forward a little more than a year, to January 8, 2011. In Tucson, Arizona, a 22 year-old man named Jared Lee Loughner opened fire at a political event, gravely wounding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing a federal judge and five others, and wounding 18. In the hours after the attack, little was known about Loughner beyond some bizarre and largely incomprehensible YouTube postings that, if anything, suggested he was mentally ill. Yet the network that had shown such caution in discussing the Ft. Hood shootings openly discussed the possibility that Loughner was inspired to violence by…Sarah Palin. Although there is no evidence that Loughner was in any way influenced by Palin, CNN was filled with speculation about the former Alaska governor.
After reporting that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik had condemned what Dupnik called "the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government," CNN's Wolf Blitzer turned to congressional reporter Jessica Yellin for analysis. The sheriff "singled out some of the political rhetoric, as you point out, in creating the environment that allowed this kind of instance to happen," Yellin told Blitzer. "Even though, as you point out, this suspect is not cooperating with investigators, so we don't know the motive. President Obama also delivered that message, saying it's partly the political rhetoric that led to this.* So that's why we want to bring up one of the themes that's burning up the social media right now. On Twitter and Facebook, there is a lot of talk, in particular, about Sarah Palin. As you might recall, back in March of last year, when the health care vote was coming to the floor of the House and this was all heating up, Palin tweeted out a message on Twitter saying 'common sense conservatives, don't retreat -- instead reload.' And she referred folks to her Facebook page. On that Facebook page was a list of Democratic members she was putting in crosshairs, and Gabrielle Giffords was one of those in the crosshairs."
Yellin noted that Palin had "posted a statement on Facebook saying that 'my sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families and for peace and justice.'" Yellin continued: "And I should point out that Republican leaders in Washington have said that this is not a partisan issue, this is about violence, as have some tea party groups. But clearly this is a moment to talk about our political rhetoric."
"It certainly is," Blitzer agreed. "But the question is, is there any evidence that the suspected shooter in this particular case was a Sarah Palin fan, read Sarah Palin's website, was a member on Facebook, watched her tweets, or anything like that?"
"None at all," Yellin responded. "And there is no evidence that this was even inspired by rage over health care, broadly. So there is no overt connection between Sarah Palin, health care, and the [shootings]."
Indeed, there is no "overt" or any other sort of connection between Loughner and Palin. If such evidence came to light, it would certainly be news. But without that evidence, and after a brief caveat, the CNN group went back to discussing the theory that Loughner acted out of rage inspired by Palin and other Republicans. Conclusions were jumped to all around.
And it wasn't just CNN. Other media outlets were also filled with speculation about the attack and pronouncements on the state of American political rhetoric. What a markedly different situation from 15 months earlier when, in the face of actual evidence that Maj. Hasan was inspired by Islamist convictions, many media commentators sought to be voices of caution. Where was that caution after the shootings in Arizona?
Rep. Robert Brady, D-Pennsylvania, said he will introduce legislation making it a federal crime for a person to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a Member of Congress or federal official.
Wow. The attempts to quash opposing viewpoints didn't take long.
Given the left's very broad definitions of "hate" and "racism" I can easily envision something as simple as urging "removal" of a politician from office will constitute a threat.
You should know you fucked up when you're on the same page as WB.
The group in question is so anti-immigration it resembles nothing that Giffords supports.
What mythical group are you talking about? You've been slandering Sarah Palin and the Tea Party for 6 pages now, are you suddenly backpedalling and shifting your accusation onto another group?
I was referring to the American Renasiance group. Saying I slandered Palin is a lie. There isn't even an implication by me that she was directly involved in the assanination attempt.
Who the fuck is "American Renaisance Group" ?!?
And you've implied if not stated that right-wing political opposition rhetoric is to blame for the Giffords shooting. (Despite that the kid, if not just insane or politically confused, has been described by others who knew him as "left leaning".)
I'm content to chalk it up to pure craziness and not assign political blame. But my points are :
1) If blame is to be assigned, this guy has described by those who knew him as left-leaning, and attributing it to conservative rhetoric is pure and unfounded slander
and
2) Democrats and the leftist media have a habit of trying to pin every random shooting like this on conservatives.
Go back and reread, I mention the group on page 6 or 7 of this thread. Is your accusation of slander based on anything I actually posted? The few people that said they knew him at all say they fell out of touch with him and that he had drastically changed. Your second point is purely your very own biased opinion.
