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r3x29yz4a said:
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Wonder Boy said:
The Democrats have no plan to turn things around or run a more efficient war. Despite every effort on your part to spin it otherwise, they are ready to just give up.
And I might add (as G-man and others have quoted across several topics) many of the veterans who return from Iraq do NOT support what Murtha is saying, and see progress in Iraq that is not reflected in news coverage or in the rhetoric they hear when they come home to the U.S..


yet when Generals say Bush and Rumsfeld are fucking up you turn a deaf ear.



You don't pay attention.

I've repeatedly agreed with many of the dissenting generals, who were being constructive and not just in bed with the Democrats and playing partisan games.

I've quoted Anthony Zinni several times over the last two years, and have agreed with his central point, that the Generals said we should have gone into Iraq with 200,000 to 300,000 men, to do the job right.
I've agreed that it was a major mistake to try and police Iraq with a lighter force of 150,000, and if we'd had the larger force, it would likely have deterred and stopped the insurgency before it began.

But there's a difference between this kind of constructive criticism of Iraq policy, and the relentless partisan whining that comes out of the Democrat party at every turn.




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r3x29yz4a said:

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W B said:
I say it again:


spew your bullshit as much as you want, doesn't make it true.



I have facts, links and quotes to back up what I've said. All you have is insults, hot air and a total lack of civility.

Which de-legitimizes what you say better than anything else I can add in response.




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r3x29yz4a said:

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W B said:
If during World War II this country were subject to the same liberal sympathy for the enemy that exists now, the same outright liberal disinformation, the same divisive partisan attacks on our leaders at every turn, the same calls to bring our troops home with every minor setback and bombing, then we would have lost World War II.


1. Questioning the methods of war is hardly the same as supporting the enemy in a war.



You, and many liberals like you, say nothing in defense of U.S. policy, you only leap eagerly on every setback in Iraq, cynically question every statement from our own government and military, while eagerly accepting verbatim every stated rationalization made by our enemy.
Democrat leaders like Murtha, Albright, Durbin and Dean provide factless propaganda soundbytes that our enemies eagerly report throughout the Muslim world and use as a recruiting tool.

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r3x29yz4a said:

2. Human rights treaties have been in existence longer than the democratic party has. Its not a liberal issue to demand ethical treatement of prisoners.



You eagerly jump on a few isolated incidents as if they were standard U.S. military policy.
As does our enemy.

And yet ignore that the U.S. military prosecutes and punishes these isolated incidents.
As does our enemy.

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r3x29yz4a said:

3. Roosevelt still had to run for reelection and prove himself and his policies. And the people supported him, Bush's numbers are sinking because he's failing not because he's being questioned.



And while Franklin Roosevelt (like George W. Bush) won re-election in 1936, 1940 and 1944, his numbers did go down and he carried less states with each re-election.

It should also be pointed that Roosevelt didn't have to face the kind of concerted media attacks on his Presidency that Bush did, from the day he was elected.
Which would have lowered Roosevelt's popular opinion standing through relentless trashing of his presidency, as it has G.W. Bush.

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r3x29yz4a said:

4. Its taken almost as long now in Iraq (a pissant little country) than we spent in WWII against the Japanese and the Germans. Maybe Bush should stop trying to G-man/rape us of our civil liberties and focus on actually managing the war he started.





An Iraq that in 1990 had the third largest military on Earth.

An Iraq that previously had nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs.
That used those weapons on Iranian soldiers, and on Iraq's own people.

An Iraq with a current population of 25 million people, and that murdered an estimated 1 million of its own people, being un-earthed in mass graves now all over Iraq.

An Iraqi resistance that is largely not native to Iraq, and is being perpetuated long beyond its natural insurgency life by an international Al Qaida organization.

An Iraqi insurgency that is NOT supported by the overwhelming majority of Iraqi citizens, that relies on terrorism and mafia tactics to intimidate Iraqi citizens who clearly want democracy.



It should also be pointed out that in W W II, the U.S. was helped out greatly by the full military and financial participation of Great Britain, France , the Soviet Union, and many other countries with a greater stake in that war.

In Iraq, the U.S. is rebuilding the country almost completly with its own resources.
And much of the reconstruction cost is of an Iraqi infrastructure that was allowed to deteriorate for 30 years, far beyond just the war damage.



One other point:

U.S. World War II deaths:
    400,000


U.S. Iraq War deaths to date :
    2,522


And by the way, you're gloating and making the propaganda points of our enemies again.
But the points you make are distorted propaganda, and not truth.

The Iraq war approaches same length of time, but not nearly the same magnitude or casualties.
Not even the same scope and magnitude as Vietnam (58,00 dead) or Korea (56,000 dead).

Your arguments could only be persuasive to the uninformed.

  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

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    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.