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bump.
Quote:
March 4, 2004
House OKs 2-Month Extension for Panel Investigating 9/11 Attacks
From Associated Press
WASHINGTON — The House passed legislation Wednesday giving the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks more time to finish its work.
Under the bill, approved by voice vote, the commission would receive 60 more days to issue its final report, or until July 26. The bipartisan panel also would have until Aug. 26 to wind down its business, a period when it declassifies information for public release.
The Senate passed the same version of the bill Friday. It now goes to President Bush for his signature; Bush last month said he supported a two-month extension.
Congress established the Sept. 11 panel — officially known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States — to study the nation's preparedness before the attacks and its response afterward, and to make recommendations to guard against similar disasters.
The commission was to finish its work May 27, but members last month asked for a two-month extension, citing repeated delays because of disputes with the Bush administration over access to witnesses and documents.
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February 28, 2004 E-mail story Print
Speaker Will Yield on 9/11 Panel Report
From Reuters
WASHINGTON — House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert withdrew his opposition Friday to giving a commission probing the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks more time to complete its work, lifting the main hurdle to a two-month extension.
In a letter to the commission, Hastert acknowledged that he had been reluctant to support an extension. But he said that since the commission under current law did not go out of existence until July 26, he would support allowing the panel to issue its report by then instead of May 27.
"I want your commission to do a thorough job, but I also believe that we must have your recommendations soon in order to give the Congress adequate time to act on them," the Illinois Republican said.
Hastert's reversal came on the same day the Senate approved legislation granting a two-month extension, and after two senators threatened to delay a highway funding bill if the House did not consider giving more time to the commission.
Hastert had opposed bringing to a vote legislation to grant the extension because it would delay the commission's recommendations and potentially politicize findings released at the height of the presidential campaign, his spokesman said.
The Democratic National Convention begins July 26 in Boston.
Last edited by whomod; 2004-03-05 7:06 AM.
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Quote:
Conflicts Of Interest On Sept. 11 Panel?
WASHINGTON, March 5, 2003
(CBS) The women who fought to create the Sept. 11 commission are all widows of the terrorist attack that day.
Some 18 months later, they still don't have an answer: about what happened, what went wrong and what must be done to ensure it never happens again.
Mindy Kleinberg plans to make their case in front of the commission.
Kleinberg and the other women want to highlight, "the fact that the cleaning personnel don't get checked" and "neither do the people who bring on the meals."
Those questions about airline security are critical to the investigation. But, now comes a serious allegation: that the Sept. 11 commission is stacked with members tied directly to the airline industry.
"Here we've got the most important event in America in the past 50 years, the most horrible thing that's happened to Americans, and yet we pick a bunch of people who are connected to the very people who are at the center of the question of who's at fault," says Terry Brunner, a former federal prosecutor who now runs the Aviation Integrity Project in Chicago. "It's ridiculous."
Brunner checked out the commissioners and discovered that out of 10, at least six represent the very companies they're now investigating.
He says they are: "Fred Fielding, Spirit Airlines, United Airlines; Slade Gordon represents Delta Airlines; Sen. Max Cleland – $300,000 from the airline industry; Jim Thompson represents American Airlines; Richard BenVinesta represents Boeing and United Airlines; and Rep. Tim Roemer - Boeing and Lockheed Martin."
"They're all up to here, with either being connected to the airlines or to the manufacturer of the airplane," says Brunner.
One of the commissioners, former Illinois Gov. Jim Thompson, once represented United and still counsels American - the very airlines involved in the Sept. 11 attack.
"The issue of my firm's representing American shouldn't be taken too far," says Thompson. "I don't think the commission as a whole is conflicted."
"When you've got six out of the ten people, a majority of the group, are connected in that way, how can they make an honest call?" asks Brunner.
Thompson, however, says the commission can reach an honest finding free of conflicts.
"I do, because I've got tremendous faith in the credibility, integrity and the honesty of the commissioners and because we know the whole world will be watching."
Especially the families of the victims, watching to make sure the commission gets honest answers.
"I would hope they would be able to put aside their financial interests to do the job that needs to be done," says Kristen Breitweiser, a Sept. 11 widow.
She hopes they do this to ensure the terror of Sept. 11 is never repeated.
Just a couple of postings on the current 9/11 panel. Since I noticed the dates on the posts preceeding mine are years old, I just want to again redirect people to TIME magazine's "The Secret History" article. Probably the 1st and best IMO article on what exactly went wrong and whether 9/11 could have been prevented.
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020812/
Last edited by whomod; 2004-03-05 7:17 AM.
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This has got to be THE most hilarious thread I have ever taken the time to read. I salute you Jack. Thanks for the chuckle. 
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
... those questions, and hundreds more, just bug me.
and not for the reason that i think they're appropriate, but rather cuz it just pisses me off that people are so fucking conspiracy-sworn and anti-establishment and negative, etc, etc, etc.
I don't know what you're advocating or railing against.
Are you saying people should just trust and obey?
The phrase "Anti-American" tends to creep up a lot on those that you seem to have a problem with. Not by you mind you, just in general.To me though, I can't think of nothing less American than to place all your trust and be faithful to authority.
Just different ways of viewing patriotism I suppose....
I don't know how'd you feel if say, this was the 1960's and i'd say something immflammatory like..um... I hear the Gulf of Tonkin didn't happen and the Vietnam War was started on a lie.
I could go on and on about proven official lies and misconduct. Is it perferable though in your opinion to forget all that and still place trust in leaders lest one be "negative" or anti-establishment? Does that make one a better citizen or patriot? What is the role of the press in such a society then?
If this has been argued and discussed somewhere in these 12 pages, then I apologize. I really can't be arsed to read this old thread in it's entirety.
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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Quote:
whomod said:
I don't know what you're advocating or railing against.
Are you saying people should just trust and obey?
after all you've seen me say, and all we've discussed, do you honestly believe that of me? does anyone on these boards?
i'd hope to safely assume "no," and that the comment was simply intended to spark conversation, though the follow up questions seem to lead in the other direction.
however, if you're looking for a more succinct and direct answer, then no, i do not believe it anti-american to ask those labled as "anti-american" questions. that's silly. i might not like some or all of them (similarly, i'm not a fan of flag burning), but i respect other's rights to them, as long as they respect my rights to not like them.
my disagreeing with a different point of view is no different than you disagreeing with a different point of view. whatever i can do, you should be able to, and vice versa.
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whomod said:
If this has been argued and discussed somewhere in these 12 pages, then I apologize. I really can't be arsed to read this old thread in it's entirety.
fair enough. i'll recap:
i hate conspiracy theories. why? because they're so easy to make accurate. you could brainstorm one in minutes, slap in any one thousand pieces of "evidence" to apply, and bam, all of a sudden, you're somehow credible. relating to 9-11, jfk, the 8th cancellation of "family guy," and why the "i hate jlo" thread was deleted from the DCMBs action figures forum. conspiracy theories big or small, they're awful.
specifically, in this instance, my response was directed towards beliefs shared by many, including a poster known as "jack the little death" (or just "lildeath") who had a famously hysteric view of ...everything.
to clear up misconceptions: thats not to say he couldn't have been right; he could have very well made some clever and accurate posts. thats not to say he was dumb; conversely, i think him very intelligent. thats not to say i hate the guy; i don't have any affection for or against him.
his hard evidence, as with many conspiracy theoriests, was found in various articles and findings and conferences that he'd connect via lose strings until A=4, and nothing could convince him otherwise. this was one of many disturbingly lose conspiracy theories (not all political)
re-reading just my first post in this thread, i really can't see anything in it that either calls bush a savior, or makes blasphemurs of those who question him. please remember, when someone disagrees that bush is the anti-christ it is not the same as that person anointing him. similarly, when one disagrees with one who disagrees with bush, that is not an attempt to silence the critique or infringe upon rights.
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Always was suspicious about the jlo thread...
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you'd be amazed by the emails i read on it.
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Right now, i'm watching a BBC documentary I found on suprnova.org called "The 9/11 Conspiracies". It presents all the conspiracy theories, from internet rumors, half-truths blown into conspiracy theory, to arab myths ertc. and debunks most and validates others with facts. It's actually quite an interesting video if one is interested in hearing both sides, all sides of an issue discussed objectively and leaving you to draw your own conclusions. It's certainly something I couldn't see discussed with this level of ...soberness here in our media.
It's sort of like a video documentary version of snopes.com
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Something just occurred to me.....Jack the Little Death is Noam Chomsky!!! 
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I guess that makes r3x a secular Pat Robertson.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said, August 5, 2002:
If Hamas and the PLO really wanted peace, they would have continued to pursue peace regardless of a single incident.
At least in the case of the bomb that Israel dropped on an apartment building, it was to eliminate a leader of Hamas, who has orchestrated hundreds of suicide bombings and attacks on Israel was planning more. By killing this one man, who was planning more terrorist attacks, Israel has disrupted and stalled further terrorism.
In contrast, how many Palestinian terror attacks have been on innocent civilians, with no pretense of an objective, beyond spilling as much Israeli blood as possible? They are truly pointless deaths.
Palestinian terror from then until now, and planned to be ongoing, has already killed TWICE as many as were killed in Israel's July 22nd bombing.
If Hamas really wanted peace, they wouldn't have used this incident as an excuse to launch an all-out terrorist assault on Israel, to the point that Israel had to pretty much shut down Palestinian travel in Israel this weekend, due to an onslaught of terrorist incidents:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A44757-2002Aug5?language=printer
To me it just further proves Arafat and the PLO's untrustworthiness as a peace partner, and how quickly an independent Palestine would be used to wage maximum damage on Israel.
Wow. I was just re-reading this topic that Pariah bumped. It's amazing, almost prophetic, what I said 4 years ago. Israel pulled out of the West Bank almost entirely, and the Palestinian terror attacks from the West bank increased on Israel in 2002.
Israel pulled out of Southern Lebanon in 2000, and then pulled entirely out of Gaza just 6 months ago. Once Palestinians had their independence and their own government --Hamas, no less-- did they respect Israel's sovereignty after Israel's full withdrawal?
No.
They launched mortar attacks and abductions from both Lebanon and Gaza.
No one can fairly say this is about Palestinian independence at this point.
And no one should believe muslim radicals worldwide will give the U.S. or Europe peace if we withdraw from Iraq or Afghanistan, or even if we abandoned Israel.
The writing is on the wall, clear for all to read. If they only would, rather than rationalize Islamic violence as somehow the West's fault.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
The writing is on the wall, clear for all to read. If they only would, rather than rationalize Islamic violence as somehow the West's fault.
if it wasn't the muslims, you would need someone else to hate. its wasteful to focus on the several million or even billion muslims when its at most a few thousand who are terrorists.
focus your energies on the ones actually doing the bad acts and not on your need to demonize an entire religious group.
Bow ties are coool.
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I would be less inclined to demonize an entire group if all the other muslims did more to stop the muslims who are bad. Really though they don't do shit and secretly applaud the bad muslims when they do strike at christians or jews.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
The writing is on the wall, clear for all to read. If they only would, rather than rationalize Islamic violence as somehow the West's fault.
if it wasn't the muslims, you would need someone else to hate. its wasteful to focus on the several million or even billion muslims when its at most a few thousand who are terrorists.
focus your energies on the ones actually doing the bad acts and not on your need to demonize an entire religious group.
As I've said elsewhere, the Washington Post reported that 30 to 50 percent of the populations of every muslim nation are boycotting U.S. goods and services since 9-11, despite their own leaders saying this will not hurt the U.S. economy, it will only damage their own economies.
As Patrick Buchanan reported, the collective 22 Arab nations have a combined GNP that does not even equal the GNP of Spain.
Again, such widespread muslim boycotting is symptomatic of a vast hatred for the U.S., and a widespread endorsement of Islamic terrorism on the U.S. and other Western nations.
It is precisely this kind of radical, repressive, unstable and hostile culture that exists in these Arab and other muslim nations, that stalls their economies and discourages development and foreign investment.
And in the case of Palestinians, all the foreign aid given to them should have given the Palestinians an economy and lifestyle comparable to that of neighboring Israel, but instead they divert it all to war, and pay the price for it. Which, almost comically, they blame on the U.S. and Israel.
Once again, rather than address the issues I've raised, you've diverted the discussion to a personal attack on me.
I don't "hate" Muslims.
Based on the fanaticism of their religious beliefs, I rightly view muslims with caution and distrust.
As I've said in previous topics, even in the Saudi Arabia --the heart of Islam, the epicenter of Wahabist missionaries and the ideology of Islamist Jihad-- TIME magazine reported that 50% of the Saudi nation's population despises Sharia law, and would like to see it abolished in their nation.
Even as Kuwait and other nations move toward adopting it.
I'd say that about 50% of the muslim world, give or take, are somewhat friendly toward the U.S., and non-violent in their practice of Islam.
These are the people who are tipping off the U.S. and other nations of the pending terrorist attacks planned by their more fanatical muslim brethren.
These are people I wouldn't want to alienate, who have a prayer of reforming their Islamic religion and culture from within, into something more peaceful that might peacefully co-exist with the West.
As I've said in other topics, I've dated two muslim women, one from Iran (named Nargus), and one from Morocco (Sanaa).
I have a friend who served in the Iraqi army in the Iran/Iraq war (Khaivan) My physician is a muslim from India, with an affection for Gold Key Disney comics.
I don't believe that all muslims are fanatics, violent and evil.
But again, among the true believers, well indoctrinated in the Koran teachings, even among the most educated muslims, there is a trend toward violence, or at the very least, of endorsement of Islamic violence.
I don't "need someone to hate".
Again, I never had an unkind thought about muslims until September 11, 2001.
I didn't see any other group, prior to that, as a threat to the U.S. since the end of the Cold War in 1991.
For a while, I could have believed that the attacks on 9-11 were by a few isolated extremists.
Until I saw video footage of tens of thousands cheering in the streets of Ramallah and other parts of the West Bank and Gaza. That was the point I began to see that Muslim fanaticism was more widespread. The point where it was clear to me that 9-11 was part of a much larger clash of civilizations. And that the time for sympathetic liberal-minded "understanding" of the muslim rationalization for violence was over.
And that sugarcoating of the true extent of violent muslim fanaticism by the sympathetic western liberals is collaborative disinformation, that advances their violent cause.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
As I've said elsewhere, the Washington Post reported that 30 to 50 percent of the populations of every muslim nation are boycotting U.S. goods and services, despite their own leaders saying this will not hurt the U.S. economy, it will only damage their own economies.
i've said repeatedly its a fucked up part of the world. Mainly due to its history and the cultivation of oppressive governments.
Quote:
As Patrick Buchanan reported, the collective 22 Arab nations have a combined GNP that does not even equal the GNP of Spain.
It is precisely this kind of radical, repressive, unstable and hostile culture that exists in these Arab and other muslim nations that stalls their economies and discourages development and foreign investment.
And in the case of Palestinians, all the foreign aid given to them should have given the Palestinians an economy and lifestyle comparable to that of neighboring Israel, but instead they divert it all to war, and pay the price for it. Which they blame on the U.S. and Israel.
here's where i think diplomacy is better used. work the people, encourage change through them and the government will have no choice. As long as we don't withdraw support as Bush sr. did in 1991.
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Once again, rather than adress the issues I've raised, you've diverted the discussion to a personal attack on me.
well you advocate a lot of violence and death and then turn around and say i hate america and want to hug terrorists.
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I don't "hate" Muslims. Based on the fanaticism of their religious beliefs, I view muslims with caution and distrust. As I've said in previous topics, even in the Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam, the epicenter of Wahabist missionaries and the ideology of Islamist Jihad, TIME maagazine reported that 50% of the population despises Sharia law and would like to see it abolished in their nation. Even as Kuwait and other nations move toward adopting it.
that's actually pretty interesting. i would appreciate a link so i can read the article myself.
Quote:
I'd say that about 50% of the muslim world, give or take, are somewhat friendly toward the U.S., and non-violent. These are the people who are tipping off the U.S. and other nations of the pending terrorist attacks of their more fanatical muslim brethren.
what we need to do is look at those two halves and really study them. understand what causes one to go one way and the other to feel the other way.
much like how the use of FBI profilers such as John Douglas were able to determine what separates a psycopath from a normal person. once we know for certain the causes then we can cut off those causes and prevent terrorist recruitment.
As i've always said our cowboy tactics bush is using play more into bin laden's hands. because bush has made us the enemy bin laden claimed we were and, in fact, given credence to his claims we wanted to invade the middle east and destroy islam.
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As I've said in other topics, I've dated two muslim women, one from Iran (named Nargus), and one from Morocco (Sanaa). I have a friend who served in the Iraqi army in the Iran/Iraq war (Khaivan), my physician is a muslim from India, with an affection for Gold Key Disney comics. Not all muslims are fanatics, violent and evil.
i never saw that. every post of yours i've read on this has said that all muslims have the desire to undermine other religions.
i can certainly appreciate this view you're expressing here and will give your posts a closer read since its not all...anger and violence.
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But again, among the true believers, well indoctrinated in the Koran teachings, there is a trend toward violence, or at the very least, of endorsement of Islamic violence.
but the inquisitions and witch trials were true believers who could do bible quotes.
i think there's actually a biblical quote about the devil using scripture. also these extremists follow the word but not the spirit of their faith.
like technically the harming of innocents is forbidden. so bin laden said in the 1980's that anyone who wasn't involved in their fight was guilty.
also jihad is a broad term meaning a great personal struggle. a muslim friend i had a few years back explained that he was taught it meant working towards a pure spirit and life. the violence is supposed to be specifically if one's country is invaded, but bin laden and the like have twisted it to say that we're a threat to them. and by invading we "justify" that claim and become literal invaders.
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I don't "need someone to hate".
Again, I never had an unkind thought about muslims until September 11, 2001. I didn't see any other group as a threat to the U.S. since the end of the Cold War in 1991.
could've fooled me, wb. i mean the first post i read of yours talked about how liberals hate america and want to see it fall. then you justify torture.
and on the torture note. the people in government who have been in war like john mccain and colin powell say it doesn't work. the ones like bush and cheny who avoided vietnam think it would. i'm more inclined to believe the soldiers on what works.
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I could have believed that the attacks on 9-11 were by a few isolated extremists, until I saw video footage of tens of thousands Cheering in the streets of Ramallag and other parts of the West Bank and Gaza. That was the point I began to see that Muslim fanaticism was more widespread.
well first off, the chinese also celebrated but that got largely ignored. i never even heard about it until last week's 5th anniversary coverage in the paper.
also, consider mob rule. consider the fact that its the other side of the world and far removed from the direct effects of the violence. and consider that we got all excited when we went to war.
also, i'm skeptical of the footage. remember when the statue of saddam fell? there was the crowd of people and it looked like all of baghdad was there to welcome us?
well i heard last year that the army had to gather and pay people to basically act in that because the real fervent U.S. supporters were so small and the bulk of the population was used to keeping its head down and not getting involved.
who knows what to believe.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
The writing is on the wall, clear for all to read. If they only would, rather than rationalize Islamic violence as somehow the West's fault.
if it wasn't the muslims, you would need someone else to hate. its wasteful to focus on the several million or even billion muslims when its at most a few thousand who are terrorists.
focus your energies on the ones actually doing the bad acts and not on your need to demonize an entire religious group.
And by the way, now that I'm through being on the defensive against your false charges...
Isn't it you who is consumed with irrational hate for Christians?
Isn't it you who carries a bottomless anger and prejudice toward Christians, blames them for every evil, despite how many times your rationalizations for that hatred have been proven utterly baseless?
Isn't it you who relentlessly posts new topics, to lash out with boundless hatred at Christianity?
And similar relentless posting of boundless hatred for Bush, Republicans, and Conservatives in general?
If it wasn't the Christians, you would need someone else to hate. its wasteful to focus on the several million or even billion Christians when there is virtually no justification for your hatred.
focus your energies on the ones actually doing the bad acts and not on your need to demonize an entire religious group.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
WB said:
I don't "hate" Muslims. Based on the fanaticism of their religious beliefs, I view muslims with caution and distrust. As I've said in previous topics, even in the Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam, the epicenter of Wahabist missionaries and the ideology of Islamist Jihad, TIME maagazine reported that 50% of the population despises Sharia law and would like to see it abolished in their nation. Even as Kuwait and other nations move toward adopting it.
that's actually pretty interesting. i would appreciate a link so i can read the article myself.
I don't have a link. But it was in the August 5, 2002 issue, on pages 30-39, in an article entitled: "Do We Need the Saudis? Oil has sustained the alliance between the U.S. and Saudis for decades. But extremism in the kingdom is putting those ties to the test."
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
here's where i think diplomacy is better used. work the people, encourage change through them and the government will have no choice. As long as we don't withdraw support as Bush sr. did in 1991.
Again, that assumes that Arabs think like Westerners, and ignores the depth of their hatred for Israel and the West. (i.e., it's well-intentioned but naive in its assumptions)
What you propose has been done in the West Bank and Gaza. The enormous amount of economic assistance and other financial and diplomatic aid.
And again, even with this aid, even with freedom in Gaza, their own government, and 95% autonomy in the West Bank, they're still hell-bent on destroying Israel. They'd rather continue their Islamic jihad on Israel than build an economy and prosper.
And all that financial aid has been funneled off into the personal accounts of Arafat and other PLO leaders. And the rest spent on guns and bombs, instead of businesses and jobs for Palestinians.
What Bush did in 1991 was encourage the Kurds and Shi'ites to rise up against Saddam Hussein, and then had our military sit on the border and let them get slaughtered, possibly as many as 200,000. That really bothered me, Bush Sr should have acted.
But we're seeing now what would have happened in 1991, where we'd have been helplessly watching the Sunnis and Shi'ites slaughter each other.
But Bush Sr didn't cultivate any new mindset among Iraqis or other muslims, to reform their culture or offer them economic assistance to reform their nations.
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r3x29yz4a said:
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WB said:
Once again, rather than adress the issues I've raised, you've diverted the discussion to a personal attack on me.
well you advocate a lot of violence and death and then turn around and say i hate america and want to hug terrorists.
I don't advocate violence. What I said yesterday is that it would be (hypothetically) amusing to watch muslims take over America and behead Reid, Pelosi, Dean, etc., all these "useful idiots" who would have ceased to be useful to muslims beyond that point.
In my hypothetical, it is muslims doing the violence.
Other than that, for many years I've advocated using military force and law enforcement to take common-sense measures to contain a radical-Islamist terrorist/military threat.
And that for muslims in the U.S., clear hatred of the United States, and talk of violence against the United States should be treated accordingly, and that even U.S. citizenship should be revoked for these people, and not become a shield from the law for anti-American individuals and groups to abuse and hide behind.
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r3x29yz4a said:
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WB said:
I'd say that about 50% of the muslim world, give or take, are somewhat friendly toward the U.S., and non-violent. These are the people who are tipping off the U.S. and other nations of the pending terrorist attacks of their more fanatical muslim brethren.
what we need to do is look at those two halves and really study them. understand what causes one to go one way and the other to feel the other way.
much like how the use of FBI profilers such as John Douglas were able to determine what separates a psycopath from a normal person. once we know for certain the causes then we can cut off those causes and prevent terrorist recruitment.
As i've always said our cowboy tactics bush is using play more into bin laden's hands. because bush has made us the enemy bin laden claimed we were and, in fact, given credence to his claims we wanted to invade the middle east and destroy islam.
You assume that we're not studying trends in muslim society.
Which is like assuming we wouldn't know what to do if Russia or China attacked the U.S.
Our military has contingency plans for just about every conceivable threat to the U.S.
Bush's "cowboy" tactics were believed to be neccessary. While Saddam was probably not a threat for a few more years, till U.N. sanctions were removed from his nation and he would have free reign to pursue WMD's (that the Kay report clearly showed he was pursuing and in U.N.-treaty material breach of) invasion could have waited a year or two until the Afghan mission was winding down.
But then U.N. sanctions on Iraq would have been lifted by then, and there would have been no legal international justification for going after Saddam.
I agree that invading Iraq played into the hands of Bin Ladin, and to the fears of many in the muslim world. But the alternative was to leave the path open for a nuclear-armed Iraq, in the absence of U.N. sanctions that were crumbling.
The way U.S. liberation of Iraq was seen in the muslim world, as an invasion/colonization, is largely due to the distortions of Al Jazeera and other Arab media, despite the best intentions of ours to liberate and build democracy in Iraq.
I think at this point long-term commitment of the U.S. to democracy in Iraq can still turn around pan-Arab opinion. It already has to a degree, inspiring a call for democracy across the nations of the Middle East.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
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PJP said:
I would be less inclined to demonize an entire group if all the other muslims did more to stop the muslims who are bad. Really though they don't do shit and secretly applaud the bad muslims when they do strike at christians or jews.
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