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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I'm just denying the part that pertains to me G-man. I don't know what the Clinton campaign is doing. I certainly would hope they would work anything to their advantage though. Although it doesn't take any digging concerning Rudy's various wives. Google & a couple of minutes reading time is all it takes to see the icky side of Rudy that you don't want people talking about.
His business stuff that he's hiding however is trickier. When that stuff starts turning up I would be more inclined to give the Clinton campaign some credit for digging it up. 
are you really going to compare business ethics when it comes to the Clintons!!!????? You are further to the left than Howard Dean.....way to the left if you are that twisted you think Hilary is more of an honest businessman than Rudy.
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Yeah, Hilly isn't exactly one to start teaching Rudy about ethics: Quote:
the G-man said:
New York Daily News
She says she just goofed.
Sen. Hillary Clinton "inadvertently" omitted from her Senate ethics forms a family charity that has allowed her and her husband to write off millions in taxable income, her staff says.
Federal tax forms list Hillary Clinton as the charity's secretary and treasurer, her husband as president and her daughter, Chelsea, as director. Donations have included $100,000 for Asian tsunami relief and $10,000 to the Columbine Memorial Committee.
Yeah, I can see this. Who among us hasn't forgotten they are the secretary and treasurer of a multi-million dollar corporation from time to time? 
To be fair, I suppose given all the Clinton's other financial affairs, it is possible that the nondisclosure of inadvertent. But doesn't that, in and of itself, tend to demonstrate a certain lackadaisical attitude toward financial details that one would prefer not to see in the nation's chief executive?
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RUDY RATES IN JERSEYAlthough normally a Democratic-leaning group, New Jersey voters are increasingly supportive of Rudy Giuliani's presidential aspirations, according to a poll released yesterday.
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He basically relied on talking about how great Reagan was & stayed away from hot button issues. Giuliani left the hall to significantly softer applause than what he was greeted with at his entrance.
Can Rudy continue to enjoy his rock star status while being so glib?
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You sound disappointed he didn't offend anyone.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
You sound disappointed he didn't offend anyone.
It was pretty much what I expected. The problem with Rudy not offending anyone is he acheived it by ducking on the issues. If this is his campaign, how will conservatives remain excited about him? 
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He's a politician. Most of them will duck issues from time to time. Do you really expect him to come out swinging every time? How do you think Howard Dean shot himself in the foot? By being a FUCKING asshole and having to lambast EVERYONE all. the. time. John Kerry did pretty much the same thing whenever he wasn't showing off his abject lack of substance or resolve. Not everyone is going to be confrontational all the time.
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I wasn't saying Rudy needs to come out swinging & be an asshole Cap but at some point I would think the conservative base would want to know where he stands on the hot buton issues.
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It's a button missing a t.
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According to the very conservative American Spectator: At CPAC, Rudy Giuliani was facing a conservative audience that should be the most hostile toward the possibility of his winning the Republican nomination, given his oft-discussed positions on social issues, and yet he was generally well received, entering and exiting the stage to a standing ovation as "New York, New York" blasted. He got a great boost with an introduction by George Will, who spoke highly of his record as mayor of New York City. He described how Giuliani reduced crime, cut taxes, restrained spending, and slashed welfare rolls in a city that had suffered through decades of liberalism that had taken the city from the elegance of "Breakfast at Tiffany's" to the decay of the "Bonfire of the Vanities." Will went as far as to call Giuliani's reign as mayor the most successful example of conservative governance in the 20th Century.
Giuliani spent much of his speech discussing fiscal issues and made a powerful case for school choice. As he has done recently, he redefined the War on Terror. Americans, he said, are not warlike people, but desire peace. "This is not our war on terror, this the war of terrorists against us."
Also, there was a dose of trademark Giuliani self-deprecation about some of the issues he faces in a Republican primary. In his introduction, Will described Maragret Thatcher as someone who would swat government agencies away with a handbag. In his opening, Giuliani joked that if he swatted government agencies with a handbag, he would have another problem. "I have enough issues with already, I don't need more." Perhaps it was a subtle reference to this video. Later in the speech, he cited Reagan's 80-20 theory, that if you agree on 80 percent of the issues, you're allies. So here we have a very conservative publication, staffed by writers who should, by all accounts, be lukewarm or hostile to Rudy because he's a moderate, and they say he did a good job, dealt with a number of issues and, contrary to MEM's characterization, received a standing ovation at the end. Sounds to me like he didn't duck a thing, other than the false Clinton talking point, that MEM threw his way.
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Rudy clearly ducked abortion, gun control & gay rights issues. I noted that Rudy got applause at the end of his speach but the Spectator avoided the detail that he left the audiance with less applause.
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I find it...interesting...that you are disappointed that Guiliani isn't talking about three issues on which he presumably agrees with you.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Rudy clearly ducked abortion, gun control & gay rights issues.
Not according to ABC and the Associated Press.
From ABC
Giuliani — a supporter of gay and abortion rights, as well as gun control — tried to address this divide head-on when he spoke at the conference Friday afternoon.
"Ronald Reagan used to say, 'My 80 percent ally is not my 20 percent enemy,'" Giuliani said, invoking a conservative icon whom he uncharacteristically mentioned today more than he did 9/11. "You and I have a lot of common beliefs that are the same and we have some that are different. You just described your relationship, I think, with your husband, your wife, your children. We don't all agree on everything. I don't agree with myself on everything."
And the AP:
"You and I have a lot of common beliefs that are the same, and we have some that are different," said Giuliani, the former New York City mayor who urged GOP activists to look past his moderate stances on gun control, abortion and homosexual rights.
"The point of a presidential election is to figure out who you agree with the most."
Poor MEM. I guess ABC and AP didn't get the same Clinton talking points you did. 
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So no direct quotes where he actually talks about any of those issues? That is funny
Quote:
While he conspicuously avoided issues on which "traditional values" conservatives disagree with him, Giuliani painted himself as a tax-cutting, welfare-reforming, crime-fighting Republican.
CNN
Quote:
Nothing about immigration, and zip about social issues (no real surprise there, though I expect at some point he’ll have to start answering the tough questions about abortion and the culture wars whether he wants to or not). So after the War on Terror stuff, what the rest of a Giuliani presidency would look like is a mystery. Mysteries don’t win presidential elections, popular or no.
The Conservative Voice
Rudy ducked.
Last edited by Matter-eater Man; 2007-03-03 9:15 PM.
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So he's full of shit in a slightly different way from other politicians, basically? Ducking can't be that much worse than just outright bullshitting.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
So he's full of shit in a slightly different way from other politicians, basically? Ducking can't be that much worse than just outright bullshitting.
Guess I prefer the candidates to actually have their positions staked out better. Granted Rudy isn't my candidate but I find it hard to believe he's going to get a pass from the party base on some of these issues, abortion in particular.
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Apparently Rudy doesn't just have ex-wives but also according to the New York Times he also has ex-kids. What type of parent doesn't even attend his son's graduation? That third wife must be pretty good in bed. New York Times
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Funny. I don't remember the mainstream media calling Chelsea Clinton at Stanford to ask how she felt about her father's affair with Monica Lewinsky and how it might have affected her relationship with him.
Double-standard when it comes to the personal lives of Republican candidates and their children?
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Actually Rush Limbaugh broke the standard of leaving the kids alone with Chelsea Clinton. Rudy's son is now 21, I believe Chelsea was like 12 when he attacked her.
And Clinton didn't stop being a parent to Chelsea, unlike apparently Rudy did.
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As always, Chris, nonresponsive.
I asked specifically about whether the mainstream media, that is, reporters for supposedly objective news organizations, were treating Guiliani's children differently than they treated Clinton's.
You, apparently unable to address that, instead brought up Limbaugh who is not, by anyone's reckoning, a member of the mainstream media.
Furthermore, the question involved the act of actually calling said child at college and asking them personal questions. At no time did Rush do such a thing and I don't believe that even you would make up that he did.
Finally, even if Rush had done that, are you really saying that you want the mainstream press to conduct itself in the same manner as a partisan political commentator from either party?
Of course not.
However, in this case, the mainstream press acted unfairly towards a republican and, therefore, you are going to give them a pass.
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Guess we disagree. Now let's get back to talking about the actual candidate... Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Apparently Rudy doesn't just have ex-wives but also according to the New York Times he also has ex-kids. What type of parent doesn't even attend his son's graduation? That third wife must be pretty good in bed. New York Times
Is this really a worthy candidate?
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I've already noted that I find it disingenous and hypocritical that you suddenly embrace "family values" only when those values can be used to attack the current GOP frontrunner.
I also have pointed out how your newfound focus on family comes after reports that the Clinton staff was actively trying to use Rudy's family life against him and after the campaign started sending "talking points" about that topic to their supporters (you, of course, being an admitted supporter).
The simple fact of the matter is that parents and adult children sometimes become estranged. This is especially true during a divorce. It is something that happens to people regardless of their political affiliation. Its sad, but has no bearing on their ability to do their job, again, regardless of party.
But keep flogging this particular dead horse, Chris. After all, its not like the democrats' insistence on making a candidates' family life "fair play" could ever backfire on a Clinton or anything?
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To review: Clinton having multiple affairs with other women, cheating on his wife, is his personal life and off-limits for criticizing his presidency. Clinton having a tryst in the Oval Office with Monica Lewinsky, again cheating on his wife, is his personal life and it's just mean ol' Republicans who make an issue out of something irrelevant to his ability as president. Clinton's perjury about his Monica Lewinsky sexual affair, is again irrelevant to his ability as president, and it's just mean of the Republicans to bring it up. Sworn statements during his presidency by other women who have pushed away sexual advances by Clinton, in incidents ranging from harassment to flat-out rape, are again dismissed by liberals as irrelevant to Clinton's ability to be president. Whereas every skeleton in Guiliani's closet, or any other Republican's, renders them of a character unfit for the Presidency. Glad there's no double-standard here. 
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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Actually it was Rudy's campaign not the Clintons, that talked about all his family history being a negative. I posted it a while back on this thread. Personally I have a low opinion of those parents who bail out on their parenting roles like Rudy has. If this didn't involve a political candidate G-man I think you would agree with me.
I see WB is also passing judgement on Rudy being a crappy dad by going with the usual rant...against the Clintons. As if you guys have ever shown any restraint when it comes to the Clintons. There are endless pages of posts where you guys accuse the Clintons of anything & everything. Double standard indeed.
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You can't base your opinion on his parenting on an article from the NY Times.
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As usual, Chris mischaracterizes the posts of others.
WB didn't defend Rudy by attacking the Clintons. He simply noted the double standard under which Rudy has been attacked for things that the Clintons were, to some extent, given a pass on.
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I know people who are divorced MEM and I know some lunatic husbands and wives who have poisoned children towards the other parent.....and who have, for example, said, "if you even think of going to his graduation I will make such a scene you will never recover from it." Donna Hanover is definitely one of those women.
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
Chelsea Clinton is a cunt whore..did I say that out loud.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Chelsea Clinton is a cunt whore..did I say that out loud.
I don't know. In Chelsea's defense, I don't recall her ever getting in all the trouble that Bush's daughters have.
Of course, maybe that means the Bush girls are just normal, fun loving, party girls. 
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Quote:
PJP said:
I know people who are divorced MEM and I know some lunatic husbands and wives who have poisoned children towards the other parent.....and who have, for example, said, "if you even think of going to his graduation I will make such a scene you will never recover from it." Donna Hanover is definitely one of those women.
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
Actually Rudy's son said the problem was Rudy's 3rd wife not his second. This kinda gets back to what I said before about people who use marriage as a revolving door. At some point it's not the various ex-wives that are the problem.
Quote:
Chelsea Clinton is a cunt whore..did I say that out loud.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
PJP said:
I know people who are divorced MEM and I know some lunatic husbands and wives who have poisoned children towards the other parent.....and who have, for example, said, "if you even think of going to his graduation I will make such a scene you will never recover from it." Donna Hanover is definitely one of those women.
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
Actually Rudy's son said the problem was Rudy's 3rd wife not his second. This kinda gets back to what I said before about people who use marriage as a revolving door. At some point it's not the various ex-wives that are the problem.
Quote:
Chelsea Clinton is a cunt whore..did I say that out loud.
and you think that Donna Hanover has nice things to say about Judith Nathan to Andrew???? Donna Hanover is a train wreck of a woman and is unstable.....you don't think that she might say to Andrew, "that's the woman who stole your daddy away from me" ? or " You better not get along with her or I'll kill myself."
You don't know how fucked up women really can be, do you?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I find it disingenous and hypocritical that you suddenly embrace "family values" only when those values can be used to attack the current GOP frontrunner...But keep flogging this particular dead horse, Chris. After all, its not like the democrats' insistence on making a candidates' family life "fair play" could ever backfire on a Clinton or anything?
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Since G-man is going with his usual tactic of requoting himself, he certainly wouldn't have a problem with me also doing likewise. (otherwise this might get buried in all his MEM attacks) Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Apparently Rudy doesn't just have ex-wives but also according to the New York Times he also has ex-kids. What type of parent doesn't even attend his son's graduation? That third wife must be pretty good in bed. New York Times
Is this really a worthy candidate?
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Quote:
PJP said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
PJP said:
I know people who are divorced MEM and I know some lunatic husbands and wives who have poisoned children towards the other parent.....and who have, for example, said, "if you even think of going to his graduation I will make such a scene you will never recover from it." Donna Hanover is definitely one of those women.
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
Actually Rudy's son said the problem was Rudy's 3rd wife not his second. This kinda gets back to what I said before about people who use marriage as a revolving door. At some point it's not the various ex-wives that are the problem.
Quote:
Chelsea Clinton is a cunt whore..did I say that out loud.
and you think that Donna Hanover has nice things to say about Judith Nathan to Andrew???? Donna Hanover is a train wreck of a woman and is unstable.....you don't think that she might say to Andrew, "that's the woman who stole your daddy away from me" ? or " You better not get along with her or I'll kill myself."
You don't know how fucked up women really can be, do you?
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You requoting the post I responded to with my requote doesn't really work the same way, Chris. Basically, it means that you re-asked a question that was already answered.
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Quote:
PJP said:
...and you think that Donna Hanover has nice things to say about Judith Nathan to Andrew???? Donna Hanover is a train wreck of a woman and is unstable.....you don't think that she might say to Andrew, "that's the woman who stole your daddy away from me" ? or " You better not get along with her or I'll kill myself."
You don't know how fucked up women really can be, do you?
Well I would imagine Rudy's second wife was probably upset at the time. Understandable though since he basically told her the marriage was over by holding a press conference & introducing her replacement. It sounds to me though that she got over it & moved on with her life. I'm not sure but I seem to remember she even re-married.
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Dude, that bitterness never goes away for some people.
If you can't acknowledge any of my points could be valid, than it isn't worth my time trying to discuss this with you.
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MEM,
do you think Paul Mcartney is a bad guy?
John Lennon?
Kevin Costner?
Val Kilmer?
Hugh Grant?
John F. Kennedy Jr.? (who was headed towards divorce with that psycho bitch he married)
Any Kennedy Man?
Chipper Jones?
Jeff Gordon?
all were in nasty divorce battles.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Dude, that bitterness never goes away for some people.
If you can't acknowledge any of my points could be valid, than it isn't worth my time trying to discuss this with you.
Your points could be valid PJP, I just offered up why I don't think they are. I would point out I haven't seen you budge a bit on Rudy reguarding what I've said.
Fair play!
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