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PaulWellr said:
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the G-man said:
Paul, without getting into a point by point debate with you, I note that much of your most recent post seems predicated on the fact that Wilson's version of events differs from Rove's.

Do you recall that Senate Intelligence Committee found that Wilson was lying about his version of events?

You're trying to build a case against Rove based in no small part on a discredited individual, with a discredited version of events.

At this point, no one knows exactly what the facts are. And, as noted above, if more facts come out, it is possible that Rove's complicity may be established (though, even then, as noted above, it is very possible that the release of Plame's name by ANYONE was not a crime).

However, until those facts come out, trying to build a case on innuendo is rather pointless.



Please explain why the issue of Wilson's credibility makes any difference at all.

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that Wilson was completely wrong.

1. Does that mean that Plame wasn't a CIA agent?
2. Does that mean that Plame was not outed?
3. Does that mean that Rove did not out Plame?
4. Does that mean that it is not a Federal crime to knowingly reveal the identity of a CIA agent?
5. Does that mean that McClellan did not say that Rove was not involved?
6. Does that mean that Bush did not say that if anybody in the White House was involved, they would be fired?

If not, what the hell difference does it make?

Once again we see a classic attempt to distract attention from the real issue. Expect to hear this nonsense parroted endlessly by wingers, Republican politicians, RNC members, Republican spokespersons, media shills and right-wing media outlets.




This is a rather sweeping statement, loaded with blanket hatred for all Republicans.

Continuing on Whomod/Paul Wellr/Jeff Gannon/Paul Mandral/unrestrained id's fanatical holy mission to prove all Republicans are evil or whatever.



First off (although all the facts are not known yet) the conversation Rove had on the telephone with columnist Robert Novak, and the TIME reporter's (Cooper's) e-mail saying to his editor that "[Rove] said Wilson's wife selected him" for the Niger/yellow-cake uranium mission, does NOT outright say that Rove named Valerie Plame and blew her cover.
From everything revealed so far, Rove said something to the effect of: "I don't know, I heard his wife picked him for the mission".

And if Rove made such a statement (there is evidence of nothing more than that) it is not a leak of any information that can be proven, just hearsay without specifics, the reporter would still have to find out the name of Wilson's wife and verify she works for the CIA, what her function and history is at the CIA, and whether or in what capacity she contributed to Wilson being selected for the mission.

So Rove's disclosed statement on the phone to a reporter, reveals nothing.






Second, since Valerie Plame is not working now for the CIA as a covert field agent, and has not for over 7 years, how would Rove be expected to know that ?
How can it possibly be proven that Rove "knowingly revealed" the identity of a CIA covert agent, when he didn't even mention her name ?





Thirdly, you ( PaulWellr/Whomod ) assert that the White House and other Republicans are liars ( liars, grrrr, ooooo ,outrage, LIARS !! ) for asserting that Valerie Plame selected Joseph Wilson for the Niger mission.
But from everything I can see, the Republicans are NOT lying.
Whether Valerie Plame personally selected Wilson for the mission, or whether Valerie Plame recommended Wilson for the mission to others above her who instead authorized Wilson for the mission... regardless, the end result is the same.
Without Valerie Plame's direct participation, he would not have been sent, someone else would have been sent.





  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.