|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
I'd kiss you if you weren't so damned ugly.
ah. uncomfortable silence.
Did you just hit on me?
No. Just trying to creep you out.
The fact that you read gay context into my statement raises an eyebrow. So much so that I shall now place an eyebrow raising smiley at the end of my post
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251
6000+ posts
|
|
6000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
I'd kiss you if you weren't so damned ugly.
ah. uncomfortable silence.
Did you just hit on me?
No. Just trying to creep you out.
The fact that you read gay context into my statement raises an eyebrow. So much so that I shall now place an eyebrow raising smiley at the end of my post
1st the idea that you're surprised that I would take a man offering to kiss another man in a gay context causes me to raise an eyebrow.
Furthermore. I live in Seattle so it takes a little more than being hit on by a guy to "creep me out".
I think that these posts relate to the Rove / Plame leak in that they demonstrate the convoluted communication styles that lead to these sort of miscommunications and should therefore not be moved.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 188
100+ posts
|
|
100+ posts
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 188 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
magicjay said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I must have missed the day that we threw out the judiciary and decided that the CIA ruled on matters of law.
You we're probably writing a post on the RKMB when it happened. Ever wonder why you silly conservatives are always the last to know? (unless it involves Presidential spooge!)
So you're saying that G is wrong. That teh CIA DOES rule in matters of law?
No, Wbam. I was poking fun at him.
The G-man says: You are GOOD
r3x29yz4a is my hero!
rex says I'm a commie, asshole, fag!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251
6000+ posts
|
|
6000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251 |
Quote:
magicjay said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
magicjay said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I must have missed the day that we threw out the judiciary and decided that the CIA ruled on matters of law.
You we're probably writing a post on the RKMB when it happened. Ever wonder why you silly conservatives are always the last to know? (unless it involves Presidential spooge!)
So you're saying that G is wrong. That teh CIA DOES rule in matters of law?
No, Wbam. I was poking fun at him.
Get a room!
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
I'd kiss you if you weren't so damned ugly.
ah. uncomfortable silence.
Did you just hit on me?
No. Just trying to creep you out.
The fact that you read gay context into my statement raises an eyebrow. So much so that I shall now place an eyebrow raising smiley at the end of my post
1st the idea that you're surprised that I would take a man offering to kiss another man in a gay context causes me to raise an eyebrow.
Furthermore. I live in Seattle so it takes a little more than being hit on by a guy to "creep me out".
I think that these posts relate to the Rove / Plame leak in that they demonstrate the convoluted communication styles that lead to these sort of miscommunications and should therefore not be moved.
you're the hitler!
i took a sudanese refugee into my home.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
magicjay said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
magicjay said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I must have missed the day that we threw out the judiciary and decided that the CIA ruled on matters of law.
You we're probably writing a post on the RKMB when it happened. Ever wonder why you silly conservatives are always the last to know? (unless it involves Presidential spooge!)
So you're saying that G is wrong. That teh CIA DOES rule in matters of law?
No, Wbam. I was poking fun at him.
Get a room!
again with the gay context?
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Uh, guys, if someone doesn't start talking about Rove and Plame soon, people are going to think this is the women's forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 998
500+ posts
|
|
500+ posts
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 998 |
Hey! Where are all the naked women pictures?
Bob Burden said:
Pie for the pirates,
wine for the dogs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
You're thinking of that other "scandal" that keeps getting brought up here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
|
|
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
I must have missed the day that we threw out the judiciary and decided that the CIA ruled on matters of law.
I wasn't speaking of law but of an agent's status. It's the CIA that decides that, isn't it? Plame had a designated status before Rove started leaking to reporters. It's something recorded in her file. I take it that your suggesting that the CIA may have somehow retroactively changed her status in order to get Rove?
Fair play!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
|
|
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
The reporter from Time (Cooper) testified that he first learned of Plame when Rove leaked it to him.
Fair play!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,063 Likes: 31
brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
|
|
brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,063 Likes: 31 |
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I must have missed the day that we threw out the judiciary and decided that the CIA ruled on matters of law.
I wasn't speaking of law but of an agent's status. It's the CIA that decides that, isn't it? Plame had a designated status before Rove started leaking to reporters. It's something recorded in her file. I take it that your suggesting that the CIA may have somehow retroactively changed her status in order to get Rove?
Two points in answer to your post, MEM :
1) It's not proven that Rove is the leaker of Plame's name as the one who sent Wilson to Niger.
The most incriminating thing I've seen about Rove so far is his phone conversation with reporter Robert Novak (about a week prior to when Novak first mentioned Plame by name in his column). Where Novak said to Rove: "I hear that it was Wilson's wife who got him picked for the Niger mission".
And Rove responded: "Yeah, I heard that too."
So Rove and Novak's conversation, if that's the extent of it, was just off-the-record chitchat about things inside the beltway.
Rove wasn't a primary source for a story.
Rove wasn't even a secondary source confirming someone else's leak.
He just said: "Yeah, I heard that too."
Which didn't verify that Plame was the one who sent Wilson on the mission, and doesn't verify she worked for the CIA. Rove just affirmed that he heard the rumor, not whether it was true or not.
and
2) The law regarding CIA agent confidentiality says an agent cannot be outed if the agent has worked covertly in the field within the last 5 years.
But Plame left the CIA in 1997, which made it 6 years from her last possible field work and when she was publicly named.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
|
|
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41 |
Rove spoke with Novak on July 8, 2003, 2 days after Wilson's Op-ed piece came out. On July 11 Rove talks to Times reporter Cooper. Cooper walks away knowing that Wilson's wife works for the agency about WMD issues. Rove also says Wilson's wife authorized his trip to Niger.
July 14 Novak outs Valerie Plame in his column. Novak writes "Two Senior Administration officials told me that his wife suggested sending Wilson to Niger to investigate."
Considering the timeline, Rove talked to at least one reporter for sure (Cooper) before Novak outed her in his column. And unless Cooper is totally lying, Rove said far more than "Yeah, I heard that too"
As for Plame, according to the latest issue of Time, her status was classified as a covert operative at the time of the leak. You may argue that she shouldn't have been still classified that way but that doesn't change what it was.
Fair play!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
|
|
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
I'd kiss you if you weren't so damned ugly.
ah. uncomfortable silence.
Did you just hit on me?
No. Just trying to creep you out.
The fact that you read gay context into my statement raises an eyebrow. So much so that I shall now place an eyebrow raising smiley at the end of my post
1st the idea that you're surprised that I would take a man offering to kiss another man in a gay context causes me to raise an eyebrow.
Furthermore. I live in Seattle so it takes a little more than being hit on by a guy to "creep me out".
I think that these posts relate to the Rove / Plame leak in that they demonstrate the convoluted communication styles that lead to these sort of miscommunications and should therefore not be moved.
you're the hitler!
i took a sudanese refugee into my home.
That's a lot of quotes, man.
"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251
6000+ posts
|
|
6000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251 |
Quote:
PCG342 said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
I'd kiss you if you weren't so damned ugly.
ah. uncomfortable silence.
Did you just hit on me?
No. Just trying to creep you out.
The fact that you read gay context into my statement raises an eyebrow. So much so that I shall now place an eyebrow raising smiley at the end of my post
1st the idea that you're surprised that I would take a man offering to kiss another man in a gay context causes me to raise an eyebrow.
Furthermore. I live in Seattle so it takes a little more than being hit on by a guy to "creep me out".
I think that these posts relate to the Rove / Plame leak in that they demonstrate the convoluted communication styles that lead to these sort of miscommunications and should therefore not be moved.
you're the hitler!
i took a sudanese refugee into my home.
That's a lot of quotes, man.
yes it is.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
As I mentioned earlier G-Man, everything you're posting here is nothing but the same GOP talking points being bandied around relentlessly by the GOP punditry. Therefore it's absolutely nothing new and it's mostly false.
Quote:
the G-man said:
All that has been confirmed is that Rove spoke to a reporter AFTER Novak "outed" Plame.
See MEM's post.
Quote:
It has not been confirmed that Rove was Novak's source.
It has been confirmed though that Rove was a secondary source. Whether Novak has offered up his 1st source is still unknown.
Quote:
It has not been confirmed that Plame was, in fact, a covert operative.
Quote:
Newsday, July 21:
Intelligence officials confirmed to Newsday Monday that Valerie Plame, wife of retired Ambassador Joseph Wilson, works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity -- at least she was undercover until last week when she was named by columnist Robert Novak.
....A senior intelligence official confirmed that Plame was a Directorate of Operations undercover officer who worked "alongside" the operations officers who asked her husband to travel to Niger.
Quote:
New York Times, October 2:
Valerie Plame was among the small subset of Central Intelligence Agency officers who could not disguise their profession by telling friends that they worked for the United States government.
That cover story, standard for American operatives who pretend to be diplomats or other federal employees, was not an option for Ms. Plame, people who knew her said on Wednesday. As a covert operative who specialized in nonconventional weapons and sometimes worked abroad, she passed herself off as a private energy expert, what the agency calls nonofficial cover.
among many other news sources if you'd only bother to look...
Plus the testimony of CIA colleagues
CIA Agents Letter to US Senate and House
Quote:
It has not even been confirmed that Rove THOUGHT Plame was a covert operative.
We're arguing in circles now. You, and a few other, posters are assuming all of the above is true. Myself, and a few other, posters are pointing out it isn't.
I agree, you're dancing in circles G-Man. This question was answered by the confidential nature of the document that named Plame. Whether Rove "knew" or not is irrelevent. He was passing material to reporters that was classified.
Quote:
The bottom line is that all of the facts are not in. Why not wait until they are?
Because of all the false assertions you just made. You're taking the right to pass these misleading talking points but everyone else has to follow the Presidents lead and wait until the investigation is complete?
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The happy thing of course though is that the prosecutor won't be swayed by GOP talking points. All this is, is finger in the dike damage control.
The issue, though, is not only whether Rove engaged in criminal behavior. It's also what the White House will do about Rove...and others involved in the leak. (Novak's other source.) The Cooper e-mail proves that Rove leaked national security information to undermine a critic. (And if Rove didn't know Valerie Wilson was under cover, he leaked without checking, which means he handled secret information recklessly.)
Oh sorry G-Man...breaking news........
Plame's Identity Marked As Secret
By the White House's earlier statements (of which they've now altered to "if any one is ever convicted"), Rove engaged in wrongdoing that warrants dismissal--regardless of how Fitzgerald's investigation ends. And if Bush was sincere when he called for the leakers to "come forward and speak out," shouldn't he order Rove to tell us all he knows?
But The Republicans have hunkered down, ignoring press inquiries, deriding Democratic criticism as baseless partisan attacks, spreading misleading talking points and generally muddying up the waters in order to hopefully confuse the average American into boredom on the subject. And of course hoping this storm will pass.
All this of course is simply refusing to acknowledge the reality revealed by Cooper's e-mail. But the White House--at the least, Rove--has always known what happened. Bush needed no special prosecutor to "get to the bottom" of this. He only had to ask his own people to tell him the truth. That is, if he didn't already know.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
It just gets worse and worse....
Bloomberg News has slotted a story alleging that senior Bush advisor Karl Rove and Vice President Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff 'Scooter' Libby provided false testimony to the special prosecutor & to the grand jury.
Quote:
Rove, Libby Accounts in CIA Case Differ With Those of Reporters
July 22 (Bloomberg) -- Two top White House aides have given accounts to a special prosecutor about how reporters first told them the identity of a CIA agent that are at odds with what the reporters have said, according to people familiar with the case.
Lewis ``Scooter'' Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that he first learned from NBC News reporter Tim Russert of the identity of Central Intelligence Agency operative Valerie Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson, one person said. Russert has testified before a federal grand jury that he didn't tell Libby of Plame's identity, the person said.
White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove told Fitzgerald that he first learned the identity of the CIA agent from syndicated columnist Robert Novak, according a person familiar with the matter. Novak, who was first to report Plame's name and connection to Wilson, has given a somewhat different version to the special prosecutor, the person said.
These discrepancies may be important because Fitzgerald is investigating whether Libby, Rove or other administration officials made false statements during the course of the investigation. The Plame case has its genesis in whether any administration officials violated a 1982 law making it illegal to knowingly reveal the name of a covert intelligence agent.
`Twisted' Intelligence
The CIA requested the inquiry after Novak reported in a July 14, 2003, column that Plame recommended her husband for a 2002 mission to check into reports Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger. Wilson, in a July 6, 2003, article in the New York Times, had said President George W. Bush's administration ``twisted'' some of the intelligence on Iraq's weapons to justify the war.
Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, said yesterday that Rove told the grand jury ``he had not heard her name before he heard it from Bob Novak.'' He declined in an interview to comment on whether Novak's account of their conversation differed from Rove's.
There also is a discrepancy between accounts given by Rove and Time magazine reporter Mat Cooper. The White House aide mentioned Wilson's wife -- though not by name -- in a July 11, 2003, conversation with Cooper, the reporter said. Rove, 55, says that Cooper called him to talk about welfare reform and the Wilson connection was mentioned later, in passing.
Cooper wrote in Time magazine last week that he told the grand jury he never discussed welfare reform with Rove in that call.
Miller in Jail
One reporter, Judith Miller of the New York Times, has been jailed on contempt of court charges for refusing to testify before the grand jury about her reporting on the Plame case.
Cooper testified only after Time Inc. said it would comply with Fitzgerald's demands for Cooper's notes and reporting on the Plame matter, particularly regarding his dealings with Rove.
Libby, 54, didn't return a phone call seeking comment.
The varying accounts of conversations between Rove, Libby and reporters come as new details emerge about a classified State Department memorandum that's also at the center of Fitzgerald's probe.
A memo by the department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research included Plame's name in a paragraph marked ``(S)'' for ``Secret,'' a designation that indicated to anyone who read it that the information was classified, the Washington Post reported yesterday.
State Department Memo
The memo, prepared July 7, 2003, for Secretary of State Colin Powell, is a focus of Fitzgerald's interest, according to individuals who have testified before the grand jury and attorneys familiar with the case.
The three-page document said that Wilson had been recommended for a CIA-sponsored trip to Africa by his wife, who worked on the CIA's counter-proliferations desk.
Bush had said in his State of the Union message in January 2003 that Iraq was trying to purchase nuclear materials in Africa. Days after Wilson's article -- in which he said there was no basis to conclude that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear material in Africa and that the administration had exaggerated the evidence -- the White House acknowledged that the Africa assertion shouldn't have been included in the speech.
The memo summarizing the Plame-Wilson connection was provided to Powell as he left with Bush on a five-day trip to Africa. Fitzgerald is exploring whether other White House officials on the trip may have gained access to the memo and shared its contents with officials back in Washington. Rove and Libby didn't accompany Bush to Africa.
One key to the inquiry is when White House aides knew of Wilson's connection to Plame and whether they learned about it through this memo or other classified information.
Some Bush allies hope that the Fitzgerald investigation, which dominated the news in Washington for the first part of July, will subside as attention shifts to Bush's nomination of Judge John Roberts to fill the first vacancy on the Supreme Court in 11 years.
Fitzgerald's term of service lasts until October, which is also the length of time remaining for the grand jury hearing evidence in the case.
Wow! Rove/Luskin blame Novak. Blink. And Novak blames Rove. .Double-blink. B-I-N-G-O!!! I just friggin' got hit with the spirit. One of them has to be lying...if not both...BUT both of them can't be telling the truth. It's definately C.Y.A. time now.
As an attorney, would'nt you say that this is the break right there, G-Man? The Grand Canyon. Checkmate...
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 920
500+ posts
|
|
500+ posts
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 920 |
I read this and was surprised. When people mention "Grand juries" I tend to picture a bunch of stodgy old professional white males. Whether that is accurate or not is up to debate but that's the impression I had at least from watching too many law and crime shows on TV. Federal Leak Case Has Formidable Grand Jury -- It’s Mainly Black WomenQuite an interesting bit of news there.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
Explosive testimony today by CIA officers. Quote:
Former agents criticize Bush over CIA leak
Reuters
Friday, July 22, 2005; 4:25 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush's failure to take action against a top aide involved in the outing of a covert CIA operative sends "the wrong message" overseas, former U.S. intelligence officials said on Friday.
At a hearing sponsored by Democrats, the retired agents said U.S. intelligence gathering had been damaged by the leak of Valerie Plame's name two years ago after her husband, former diplomat Joseph Wilson, criticized the White House's justification for going to war in Iraq.
Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper told a federal grand jury that presidential adviser Karl Rove told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, but did not disclose her name.
Cooper has also said he discussed the Wilsons with Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff.
"What has suffered irreversible damage is the credibility of our case officers when they try to convince an overseas contact that their safety is of primary importance to us," Jim Marcinkowski, a former CIA case officer, said.
He also criticized Republican efforts to minimize the damage caused by the leak.
"Each time the political machine made up of prime-time patriots and partisan ninnies display their ignorance by deriding Valerie Plame as a mere paper pusher or belittling the varying degrees of cover used to protect our officers or continuing to play partisan politics with our national security, it's a disservice to this country," he added.
Bush vowed this week to fire anyone found to have acted illegally in the controversy, backing away from a broader pledge to dismiss anyone found to have leaked information in the case.
CRIMINAL STANDARD
Marcinkowski said the criminal standard was too high and that Bush should take action against those involved.
"Inaction itself sends the message -- the wrong message," he said.
As controversy over the matter heated up in recent weeks, the White House has refused to answer questions about Rove, who is credited with being the architect of the president's election victories.
So far, the only person to suffer legal sanction in the case is New York Times reporter Judith Miller, who has been jailed for refusing to testify about her sources.
Congressional Republicans have rushed to defend Rove and criticize Wilson, who took a CIA-funded trip in 2002 to investigate a charge that Iraq tried to buy nuclear materials in Africa, and later accused the Bush administration of exaggerating the Iraqi weapons threat. They said Rove is a "whistleblower" because Wilson told lies about the trip and he was trying to set the Time reporter straight.
Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst who said he was a registered Republican, spoke harshly of the criticisms of Wilson and efforts to minimize his wife's job at the CIA.
"This is wrong. This should stop. And it could stop in a heartbeat if the president would simply put a stop to it -- he hasn't," Johnson said. "That speaks volumes."
White House officials have sought to put the controversy behind them pending the outcome of a federal investigation.
But the matter continues to dog the administration, with key Bush aide Karen Hughes facing questions from reporters on Friday after testifying on Capitol Hill.
"There's an ongoing investigation," she said.
I'll try to find some decent audio/video or at least some excerpts from the CIA testimony as they said some incredibly powerful statements.
C-Span though has the full video under
"Hearing on Security Implications of Revealing Covert Agent's Identity (07/22/2005)"
We also now know that the Top Secret memo most consistent with the talking points that Rove and Libby told reporters was seen in the hands of Press Secretary Ari Fleischer in the days before the leak occurred. And that Fleischer told the grand jury he never saw it.
Perjurer # 3.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
CIA agents James Marcinkowoski and Larry Johnson are the most vocal and blunt critics of the lies and diversion tactics employed by the right wing punditry. And sadly, they had to add disclaimers as to their Republican credentials so their testimony won't be predictably dismissed as partisan by the same punditry.
Quote:
Testimony of James Marcinkowski
July 22, 2005
What is important now is not who wins or loses the political battle or who may or may not be indicted; rather, it is a question of how we will go about protecting the citizens of this country in a very dangerous world. The undisputed fact is that we have irreparably damaged our capability to collect human intelligence and thereby significantly diminished our capability to protect the American people.
Understandable to all Americans is a simple, incontrovertible, but damning truth: the United States government exposed the identity of a clandestine officer working for the CIA. This is not just another partisan "dust-up" between political parties. This unprecedented act will have far-reaching consequences for covert operations around the world. Equally disastrous is that from the time of that first damning act, we have continued on a course of self-inflicted wounds by government officials who have refused to take any responsibility, have played hide-and-seek with the truth and engaged in semantic parlor games for more than two years, all at the expense of the safety of the American people. No government official has that right.
For an understanding of what is at stake it is important to understand some fundamental principles. No country or hostile group, from al Qaeda to any drug rings operating in our cities, likes to be infiltrated or spied upon. The CIA, much like any police department in any city, has undercover officers--spies, that use "cover."
To operate under "cover" means you use some ruse to cloak both your identity and your intentions. The degree of cover needed to carry out any operation varies depending on the target of the investigation. A police officer performing "street buys" uses a "light" cover, meaning he or she could pose as something as simple as a drug user, operate only at night and during the day and, believe it or not, have a desk job in the police station. On the other hand, if an attempt were made to infiltrate a crime syndicate, visiting the local police station or drinking with fellow FBI agents after work may be out of the question. In any scenario, your cover, no matter what the degree, provides personal protection and safety. But it does not end there. Cover is also used to protect collection methodology as well as any innocent persons a CIA officer may have regular contact with, such as overseas acquaintances, friends, and even other U.S. government officials.
While cover provides a degree of safety for the case officer, it also provides security for that officer's informants or agents. In most human intelligence operations, the confidentiality of the cover used by a CIA officer and the personal security of the agent or asset is mutually dependent. A case officer cannot be identified as working for the CIA, just as the informant/agent cannot be identified as working for the CIA through the case officer. If an informant or agent is exposed as working for the CIA, there is a good chance that the CIA officer has been identified as well. Similarly, if the CIA officer is exposed, his or her agents or informants are exposed. In all cases, the cover of a case officer ensures not only his or her own personal safety but that of the agents or assets as well.
The exposure of Valerie Plame's cover by the White House is the same as the local chief of police announcing to the media the identity of its undercover drug officers. In both cases, the ability of the officer to operate is destroyed, but there is also an added dimension. An informant in a major sophisticated crime network, or a CIA asset working in a foreign government, if exposed, has a rather good chance of losing more than just their ability to operate.
Any undercover officer, whether in the police department or the CIA, will tell you that the major concern of their informant or agent is their personal safety and that of their family. Cover is safety. If you cannot guarantee that safety in some form or other, the person will not work for you and the source of important information will be lost.
So how is the Valerie Plame incident perceived by any current or potential agent of the CIA? I will guarantee you that if the local police chief identified the names of the department's undercover officers, any half-way sophisticated undercover operation would come to a halt and if he survived that accidental discharge of a weapon in police headquarters, would be asked to retire.
And so the real issues before this Congress and this country today is not partisan politics, not even the loss of secrets. The secrets of Valerie Plame's cover are long gone. What has suffered perhaps irreversible damage is the credibility of our case officers when they try to convince our overseas contact that their safety is of primary importance to us. How are our case officers supposed to build and maintain that confidence when their own government cannot even guarantee the personal protection of the home team? While the loss of secrets in the world of espionage may be damaging, the stealing of the credibility of our CIA officers is unforgivable....
And so we are left with only one fundamental truth, the U.S. government exposed the identity of a covert operative. I am not convinced that the toothpaste can be put back into the tube. Great damage has been done and that damage has been increasing every single day for more than two years. The problem of the refusal to accept responsibility by senior government officials is ongoing and causing greater damage to our national security and our ability to collect human intelligence. But the problem lies not only with government officials but also with the media, commentators and other apologists who have no clue as to the workings of the intelligence community. Think about what we are doing from the perspective of our overseas human intelligence assets or potential assets.
I believe Bob Novak when he credited senior administration officials for the initial leak, or the simple, but not insignificant confirmation of that secret information, as I believe a CIA officer in some far away country will lose an opportunity to recruit an asset that may be of invaluable service to our covert war on terror because "promises of protection" will no longer carry the level of trust they once had.
Each time the leader of a political party opens his mouth in public to deflect responsibility, the word overseas is loud and clear--politics in this country does in fact trump national security.
Each time a distinguished ambassador is ruthlessly attacked for the information he provided, a foreign asset will contemplate why he should risk his life when his information will not be taken seriously.
Each time there is a perceived political "success" in deflecting responsibility by debating or re-debating some minutia, such actions are equally effective in undermining the ability of this country to protect itself against its enemies, because the two are indeed related. Each time the political machine made up of prime-time patriots and partisan ninnies display their ignorance by deriding Valerie Plame as a mere "paper-pusher," or belittling the varying degrees of cover used to protect our officers, or continuing to play partisan politics with our national security, it is a disservice to this country. By ridiculing, for example, the "degree" of cover or the use of post office boxes, you lessen the level of confidence that foreign nationals place in our covert capabilities.
Those who would advocate the "I'm ok, you're ok" politics of non-responsibility, should probably think about the impact of those actions on our foreign agents. Non-responsibility means we don't care. Not caring means a loss of security. A loss of security means a loss of an agent. The loss of an agent means the loss of information. The loss of information means an increase in the risk to the people of the United States.
There is a very serious message here. Before you shine up your American flag lapel pin and affix your patriotism to your sleeve, think about what the impact your actions will have on the security of the American people. Think about whether your partisan obfuscation is creating confidence in the United States in general and the CIA in particular. If not, a true patriot would shut up.
Those who take pride in their political ability to divert the issue from the fundamental truth ought to be prepared to take their share of the responsibility for the continuing damage done to our national security.
When this unprecedented act first occurred, the president could have immediately demanded the resignation of all persons even tangentially involved. Or, at a minimum, he could have suspended the security clearances of these persons and placed them on administrative leave. Such methods are routine with police forces throughout the country. That would have at least sent the right message around the globe, that we take the security of those risking their lives on behalf of the United States seriously. Instead, we have flooded the foreign airwaves with two years of inaction, political rhetoric, ignorance, and partisan bickering. That's the wrong message. In doing so we have not lessened, but increased the threat to the security and safety of the people of the United States.
Some sober food for thought for all the apologists and talking points peddlers out there (and here)
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251
6000+ posts
|
|
6000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251 |
I read the second article (I mean c'mon there are only so many hours in the day) and it sounded less like he was providing evidence, but rather giving his opinion.
I realise this is all very exciting to the left, but frankly fo rthe most part I'll wait for the verdict.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Again, that assuming facts not in evidence.
um, its pretty much confirmed that he leaked it.
G-man, you've got to wake up for school now.
If it's been confirmed that he leaked the name, please show me proof and I'll stand behind you 100% that Bush should get off his ass and fire Rove.
pretty much as in a lot of the people involved who have seen the evidence say it points to Rove.
Now, granted that's not 100%, because they could all be lying as part of some vast left wing conspiracy. But when/"if" it is proven 100% I'll take out the pretty much.
Translation: We aint proved shit!
The reporter from Time (Cooper) testified that he first learned of Plame when Rove leaked it to him.
liberal testimony doesn't count in the court G-man.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 920
500+ posts
|
|
500+ posts
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 920 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
liberal testimony doesn't count in the court G-man.
You just reminded me of the case of this rat bastard crook.
Quote:
Quote:
James Tobin, a Bangor native and leading Republican operative who is being charged with masterminding a campaign to block democratic phone lines during the 2002 New Hampshire Senate election is challenging the indictments against him on the basis that some members of the grand jury were Democrats. His attorneys are arguing that only a panel made up of all Republicans can legally indict him since his alleged crime made all Democrats in NH his "victims".
James Tobin also wants to know whether they´re Democrats, Republicans or independents and whether they watch TV shows such as "West Wing," CNN´s "Crossfire," MSNBC´s "Hardball," or "The McLaughlin Group," which mostly runs on public television stations.
Those questions are part of a proposed jury pool questionnaire for Tobin´s trial on charges he conspired to jam Democrats´ get-out-the-vote phones on Election Day 2002, as well as a ride-to-the-polls line run by the Manchester firefighters union.
"You don´t have to do research to know that someone who likes "West Wing" isn´t going to like these defendants," said Patricia McEvoy, a Chicago jury consultant[...]
The proposed questionnaire asks prospective jurors about union membership, whether they´ve ever had a bumper sticker on their car and what it said, what Web logs they read, and whether the take part in online chat groups.
Tobin´s lawyers also want jurors to describe themselves by checking off all that apply: "aggressive, articulate, emotional, entrepreneurial, intelligent, laid back, loyal, naive, perceptive, stubborn, (or) other."
what does this have to do with Rove? Rove wrote the book on despicable dirty tricks to gain political advantage. This fucker is obviously a protoge. So see, it's all connected....
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
as part of her confirmation hearings for a State Department public relations position, Karen Hughes was, by law, obligated to answer a questionnaire, that among other things, asked whether there were any legal proceedings to which she might be a be part of: She admitted that she had testified before Fitzgerald's grand jury. The NY Times points out, Bolton answered "no" on the questionnaire -- though,accoring to David Shuster on Hardball, Bolton did testify. It turns out he also testified before the grand jury on the contents of the Plame memo.
If Bolton intentionally misled the Senate in his questionnaire, he's toast. End of story.
Who's right and who's wrong? Or are both right, and Bolton simply failed to disclose it?
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
It may be a misunderstanding on someone's part.
I haven't read the language of the question. However, typically, in government service, that questions is meant as "are there any court cases in which you are a party to could become a party to," meaning "have you been sued, or could you be sued?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
This little detail is buried halfway down in a story about Karlgate. Quote:
The White House response began at 9:30 a.m. on July 7, a Monday, as Mr. Fleischer briefed the press at the White House. "There is zero, nada, nothing new here," he said of Mr. Wilson's claims. But under questioning, Mr. Fleischer's account became murkier. He seemed to concede, before backing away, that Mr. Bush's entire statement about Saddam Hussein's search for uranium in Africa might have been flawed.
By evening, as Air Force One lifted off, officials on the plane were calling The Times and The Washington Post to make it clear that they no longer stood behind Mr. Bush's statement about the uranium - the first such official concession on the sensitive issue of the intelligence that led to the war.
So no debate, people. Joe Wilson came forward with his op-ed and appearances on Sunday talk shows to say the President lied to the American people in his State of the Union address. Bush made flat claims that he KNEW he didn't have the evidence to back up. The only proof we need? The very next day, the White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer started to admit Bush's central claim might have been flawed. The very next day, they were calling the biggest newspapers in the country to "make clear" they did not stand behind that claim.
One day after Joe Wilson's public comments, Bush admitted he couldn't back up what he said. They've tried to prevaricate and lie and whitewash this admission. They've smeared Joe Wilson and attacked his wife and endangered his children and weakened national security all in an attempt to discredit it. But the White House never has and never will take back that retraction. They can't.
If Bush wants to claim vindication, let him make that charge about Hussein trying to get uranium in Niger all over again. If he can't, he should apologize to joe Wilson and fire Rove and Scooter and whomever else is involved.
If anyone wants to pretend Joe Wilson was wrong, they've got to argue with Bush first. Bush retracted the very words Wilson objected to. So argue with Bush. Not Wilson.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232
200+ posts
|
|
OP
200+ posts
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 232 |
So, like, has this question been asked by the media and of the media: if Joseph Wilson was just outright wrong, why didn't the Bush administration just prove that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger? Put up or shut up.
Right wingers everywhere are mischaracterizing Wilson's findings, saying, for instance, that they "bolstered" British allegations on the uranium: says Ann Coulter, "His conclusion is contradicted by the extensive findings of the British government." Or they say that Wilson just was a lazy hack who didn't find out anything.
Why did Karl Rove and Scooter Libby bother trying to "help" reporters not work on stories about Wilson's findings? Why try to discredit Wilson if you can prove he's wrong? Why not just show the British findings? Damn, if that answer ain't about as obvious as a herpes sore on a hooker's lip, you deserve all the diseases you get.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
The Bush Administration came right out approximately two years ago, voluntarily, and said they could no longer stand behind the yellowcake claims, which came from British intelligence.
How is that "misleading" America?
In fact, until the Bush administration made that statement, very few people were challenging the allegation.
Ironically, it was not until the White House came forward, in effort at full disclosure, that the left started screaming "Bush LIED".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Ironically, it was not until the White House came forward, in effort at full disclosure, that the left started screaming "Bush LIED".
admitting that you lied before someone accuses you of lying does not negate the lie in the first place.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
|
|
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,820 Likes: 41 |
Hmmn, couldn't really hear the left screaming at the time because the right was screaming even louder that Wilson was (fill in the blank) & that his wife sent him.
Fair play!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,063 Likes: 31
brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
|
|
brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,063 Likes: 31 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Ironically, it was not until the White House came forward, in effort at full disclosure, that the left started screaming "Bush LIED".
admitting that you lied before someone accuses you of lying does not negate the lie in the first place.
I guess that makes The New York Times and The Washington Post, Time magazine, and other sources liars as well.
Who routinely make errors, and print retractions to correct those errors.
Your argument is absurd.
There's a difference between lying, and simply admitting a factual error.
Of a statement that was the best available facts at the time the statement was made, and a correction later made when the facts were proven uncorroborated.
Not proven false, just uncorroborated.
Or in the case of U.S. invasion of Iraq over WMD's, that the White House believed and acted based on considerable circumstancial evidence that Saddam was pursuing WMD's (as every other nation's intelligence on Iraq also believed) and simply do not have the hard evidence to prove it beyond all doubt.
So they admitted to a lack of corroborating sources to put it in the State of the Union Address.
But they can't be proven wrong.
And the evidence doesn't exist to say they "lied".
And it is thus a lie for liberals to say that Bush "lied".
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
 If Bush picked his intel like he picked his nose, then we wouldn't be in this mess.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
|
|
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747 |
Rack you.
"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251
6000+ posts
|
|
6000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251 |
Quote:
PCG342 said:
Rack you.
15 year old noobs have no RACK points to distribute and JLA won't RACK r3x because they are sworn enemas.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
PCG342 said:
Rack you.
15 year old noobs have no RACK points to distribute and JLA won't RACK r3x because they are sworn enemas.
Your point is valid. I concede defeat 
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062
1000+ posts
|
|
1000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
...they are sworn enemas.
Were you making a pun or did you make a REALLY bad misspelling?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062
1000+ posts
|
|
1000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
PCG342 said:
Rack you.
15 year old noobs have no RACK points to distribute and JLA won't RACK r3x because they are sworn enemas.
I must step in and rack him, then.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
It appears that the Rove kerfluffle is paying off... for Republicans: Some Democrats in both the House and Senate are wondering why the party continues to beat on the supposed Karl Rove scandal, despite the fact that there is no clear evidence the story is helping the party politically.
"I haven't seen a single, serious poll beyond the media's that attacking Rove helps us one bit with the voters," says a Democratic House member. "No one can show me numbers. This is all the fringe people like MoveOn and even Howard Dean. It's all about not getting past 2000 and 2004. And I really fear we're going to pay for it down the road."
He points to the energy bill wending its way out of both the Senate and House, as well as the USA PATRIOT Act renewal, and the highway bill as evidence that his party is losing sight of good political fights they should be waging, and instead are focusing on what amounts to minor scandals.
"My party is making a huge bet on something we really know nothing about," says the Democrat. "We don't know where this Plame thing is going to go, yet we're giving these people a huge platform. I'd rather be fighting for the issues that we know Americans care about: the environment, more of their tax dollars on national security and homeland defense. That stuff resonates at home."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251
6000+ posts
|
|
6000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,251 |
Quote:
Snapman said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
...they are sworn enemas.
Were you making a pun or did you make a REALLY bad misspelling?
pun.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Snapman said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
...they are sworn enemas.
Were you making a pun or did you make a REALLY bad misspelling?
pun.
yeah, right 
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
