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Quote:
My journey out of the extreme right-wing morass
by duskglow
Wed Jan 25, 2006 at 10:36:16 AM PDT
I want to leave with an observation on what makes the right-wingers tick. Having been one myself, I think I'm unusually qualified to speculate on that.
I believe that they are afraid. That is the overarching thing that drives everything they say and do. It pushes logic out the window, it causes them to temporarily lose track of their values. They are afraid of hell, they are afraid of people who do not believe as they do. They are terrified that the "atheists" will take over. Most things that they do are motivated out of fear, and they will do anything to try to remove or assuage that fear. We are not just battling ideologues - we are battling scared ideologues. And those are the most dangerous kind of all.
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No more then left wingers being pussy hippies.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
rex said:
No more then left wingers being pussy hippies.
You mean hippie pussies like Vladmir Lenin, Mao Tze Tung and Joseph Stalin?
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I thought only conservatives could be murderous bastards. 
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Yea, I guess in addition to being hippie pussies, they can also be phychotic mass murderers. Good point MJ, I'll add that to my lexicon.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Quote:
My journey out of the extreme right-wing morass
by duskglow
Wed Jan 25, 2006 at 10:36:16 AM PDT
I want to leave with an observation on what makes the right-wingers tick. Having been one myself, I think I'm unusually qualified to speculate on that.
I believe that they are afraid. That is the overarching thing that drives everything they say and do. It pushes logic out the window, it causes them to temporarily lose track of their values. They are afraid of hell, they are afraid of people who do not believe as they do. They are terrified that the "atheists" will take over. Most things that they do are motivated out of fear, and they will do anything to try to remove or assuage that fear. We are not just battling ideologues - we are battling scared ideologues. And those are the most dangerous kind of all.
Or perhaps liberals are cowards, and simply wish to believe that conservatives are no better than themselves.
But of course, if I were to postulate that, it would be as unproveable as the liberal allegation that conservatives are "afraid".
I see the caricature of "Right-wingers" being "afraid" as a characteristic smear by the left of their opposition.
It has been my experience that liberals are very cynical, and have an intolerant contempt for anyone who doesn't share their beliefs. Which explains the liberal penchant for vicious stereotypes and caricatures of any group that doesn't believe what they do.
(Except, of course, for liberals' childlike faith and acceptance verbatim of any conspiracy theory that undermines the credibility of conservatives. No matter how far-fetched, specious and unprovable. Those conspiracies liberals have absolute and boundless faith in.)
Conservatives aren't "afraid". Conservatives simply have standards. Conservatives like their government, society and culture to be a certain way, and strive to maintain those standards.
Things such as rampant teenage pregnancy, a vast increase in single mothers, high divorce rates, sharp rises in drug use, drug-related violent crime, declining literacy, increasing vulgarity, and a general breakdown of trust in government, are a direct result of liberal reforms, and the corrosive effect of liberal media smear and cynicism directed at anyone who opposes liberal policies (the very same policies that brought us these problems in the first place).
I would further argue that the anti-American rhetoric over the last 40 years (manufactured by domestic U.S. liberals), that is eagerly scooped up by America's political enemies overseas, and the resultant half-measures imposed on U.S. military and diplomatic policy over that same 4 decades, baselessly undermining public trust for their own short-term political gain (by the likes of John Kerry, Al Gore, Hilary Clinton, Tom Daschle, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Charles Rangel, Jesse Jackson, etc, etc.) is largely responsible for overseas U.S. failures and foreign Anti-American opinion. And domestic anti-American opinion as well.
So...
It is not "fear" that motivates conservatives.
It is instead persistence to do what is right and strive for something better, despite the obstruction of (arguably anti-American) liberals who are hell-bent on destroying us.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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You see what you did, magicjay? Now we got an essay.
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It's the conservative fear of their own shadows that intrigues me. They're afraid of, well, everybody and everything. Terrorism is a good example. You have a better chance of winning Super-Ball than being killed or injured by terrorists. Yet they sacrifce their liberty for an illusion of safety.
The fact is they're afraid of most anyone different than themselves. Gay people, racial minorities. commies, liberals they fear everyone. Why do they care what goes on in other peoples bedrooms?
Why are they afraid of new fangled ideas like evolution?
Beats the hell out of me!
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Left-wingers are afraid of the Church, big business, ANY possibility of ANY loss of ANY Supreme Court judge in the next three years, pretty much everything that WILL happen over the next three years, guns (in general), conservatives (also in general), private schools, roves, bushes, and anything involving rice.
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I'd say you slept with a gun under your pillow if you weren't so afraid of them.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
...em'.
You should fix that.
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
It's the conservative fear of their own shadows that intrigues me. They're afraid of, well, everybody and everything. Terrorism is a good example. You have a better chance of winning Super-Ball than being killed or injured by terrorists. Yet they sacrifce their liberty for an illusion of safety.
Beirut, 1983, 273 U.S. Marines killed.
The 1993 bombing attempt on the World Trade Center (by which ignoring the first attempt and not "chasing our shadows", a complacency that allowed 9-11-2001 to occur)
Al Qaida participation in the 1993 Somalia deaths of U.S. soldiers.
The 1995 Khobar tower bombings.
The 1998 simultantaneous bombings of two U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
The 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in Yeman, killing 23 U.S. soldiers.
Granted, that's a fairly short list. So far.
(which omits the many foiled and arrested terror-cels that have not successfully killed thousands of Americans.
One revealed just today, a 2004 foiled plot orchestrated by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to hijack another airliner and ram it into the tallest building on the West coast of the U.S.)
Liberals act like there isn't a threat, even though the Afghanistan terrorist training camps captured in 2002 were filled with elaborate terror training videos, and maps of targeted landmarks scattered throughout North America and Europe.
And even though being passive only allowed then-amateurs(in 1993) to become highly skilled terrorists, advancing to ever more grandiose displays of terrorism, with ever higher body counts and ever greater economic/political damage.
Ten years of complacency allowed Osama Bin Ladin to become a household name, and a rallying banner for global terrorism.
The Kerry/Clinton/Gore/Reid/Daschle/Dean/Pelosi approach is to just sit back (as evidenced from 1993-2000, and in constantly voiced rhetoric of leading Democrats ever since) and pretend this isn't a war, and hope that not reacting and provoking the Muslim world will somehow make spreading Islamic terror just go away.
As evidenced from 1993 onward, that shortsighted liberal approach is not working.
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
The fact is they're afraid of most anyone different than themselves. Gay people, racial minorities. commies, liberals they fear everyone. Why do they care what goes on in other peoples bedrooms?
Why are they afraid of new fangled ideas like evolution?
The people I socialize with daily, from Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, Jamaica, and elsewhere, would quickly see the falseness of your sweeping generalization of myself and other conservatives.
As would both of the women I almost married. One from Spain, the other from the Phillipines.
It depends how spiteful and angry liberals I meet are, whether I may or may not socialize with them.
I already covered my opinion of gays in another topic .
Which again, does not conform with your sweeping generalization of conservatives.
I'm kind of an anomoly among Christian conservatives, in that I don't think evolution neccessarily undermines or contradicts the Bible creation account in Genesis.
But I hold to the notion that the Biblical creation scripture is true, unless proven otherwise. And I'm confident that after 3500 years and many secular attacks on the Bible that it never will be disproven.
My problem with evolution is that it's part of a larger attempt to leverage Christianity and the Bible out of our schools-- and out of our culture altogether-- and that secular/atheist/anti-Christian Evolution proponents are intolerant of the moral values of the Bible, and the good the Bible did for education and American society until they were leveraged out of our schools in 1963, along with the Constitutional freedom of school prayer.
So basically, I don't give a flying crap about teaching evolution in schools.
(Although Evolution, like Christianity, has some gaps that require a degree of faith. And far from the stereotype that Christians who discard Evolution are all uneducated morons ignorant of science, many scientists have written about the gaps of logic in Evolution theory, and embraced the idea of the complexity of the universe being the manifestation of an intelligent designer.)
I only get annoyed with attempts to shut Christianity out of our schools, government buildings, and even the Christmas carols in our parades and department stores.
While simultaneously allowing gay advocacy (a belief system that is essentially a faith-based doctrine), Islamic teaching (another belief-based doctrine, that is the ideology of our enemies, an ideology of terrorism that threatens our nation), and Evolution (another faith-based doctrine).
These we allow.
While excluding Christianity.
Christianity, the religion that inspired our contract government, that was stated by the nation's founders to be essential to the survival of Democracy.
And Christianity, whose absence in previous Democracies was what the founding fathers stated is what doomed those previous attempts at democracy to failure.
Oh, the irony.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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I bet no one got past the first few sentences in that post.
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Quote:
rex said:
I bet no one got past the first few sentences in that post.
My apologies. It takes a bit more space to disprove an allegation with facts, and clarify what you actually believe, than it does to smear someone with a sweeping generalization and a cheap-shot one-liner.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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I don't agree with very much in this thread. Broad characterizations of the other side, does anyone really think their accurate?
Fair play!
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
rex said:
I bet no one got past the first few sentences in that post.
My apologies. It takes a bit more space to disprove an allegation with facts, and clarify what you actually believe, than it does to smear someone, with a sweeping generalization in a cheap-shot one-liner.
Or you could stop writing your manifestos.
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Quote:
rex said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
rex said:
I bet no one got past the first few sentences in that post.
My apologies. It takes a bit more space to disprove an allegation with facts, and clarify what you actually believe, than it does to smear someone, with a sweeping generalization in a cheap-shot one-liner.
Or you could stop writing your manifestos.
So basically... I should deprive myself of an opinion, and just shut up and take all the false things I'm accused of?
Just to please you?
If you look through my last 100 posts or so, you'll find some long ones, and a fair percentage of shorter ones as well.
I'd rather go on at length once in a while, have something to say, and say it clearly.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
While excluding Christianity.
This country elected the openly Christian Jimmy Carter in 1976. Ronald Reagan labeled himself a Christian and referenced God all the time. And we've elected George W. Bush, a stauncher, more evangelical Christian to two terms.
How can you say with a straight face that Christianity is excluded in the United States?
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2006-02-10 3:59 AM.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
While excluding Christianity.
This country elected the openly Christian Jimmy Carter in 1976. Ronald Reagan labeled himself a Christian and referenced God all the time. And we've elected George W. Bush, a stauncher, more evangelical Christian to two terms.
How can you say with a straight face that Christianity is excluded in the United States?
A fair question, Jim.
If I'd been old enough, I'd have voted for Carter myself in 1976. Although in the retrospect of history, I think he was a lousy President.
I think Carter projected honesty, and that was what the nation craved in 1976, post-Watergate (despite that I think it can be argued that Kennedy and Johnson, prior to Nixon, were just as laden in scandal. In Kennedy's case, during a time where a modern level of media scrutiny was not given to our presidents. )
First, in the case of Reagan and the current G.W.Bush, despite that a majority of the nation elected them, they were/are still vilified throughout our culture by non-supporters as closed-minded fanatics and idiots. Even though Christians are the majority.
For example :
Second, just because secularist/liberal activists and judges have made a concerted effort to suppress religious freedom in the U.S. , but haven't successfully leveraged a pro-Christian president out of the White House, doesn't mean that there hasn't been a massive concerted effort to undermine religious freedom.
(I mean, trying to exclude Christmas carols in department stores and in local parades! The name of the holiday is CHRISTMAS! No Christmas carols on Christmas, makes sense...)
Although secularist/liberals have been successful in removing school prayer, and in often removing the Ten Commandments and other Bible scripture and Nativity scenes from many public buildings nationwide.
Again, if it's an across-the-board ban on religion and ideologies in schools, I'd support it. But Islam, gay advocacy, evolution, etc., are endorsed by many schools, while prayer, Bible study and the slightest mention of Christian principles are removed from the forum of ideas at these exact same schools.
That is one-sided and opressive of Christianity, if not always successful.
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First of all, I think liberals and conservatives alike would agree that Rex is a jack-ass. Personally, I enjoy WBs manifestos. I post here to argue, I don't expect to win!
On the terrorist attacks:
Beirut, 1983, 273 U.S. Marines killed.
Al Qaida participation in the 1993 Somalia deaths of U.S. soldiers.
The 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in Yeman, killing 23 U.S. soldiers.
Aren't part of the equation. They were military combatants killed by the surprise attacks of irregular troops. They also occurred in areas that were scenes of open fighting and outside of the Western Hemisphere. Casualties of war is a more accurate description than terrorist victims. Was the 7th Cavalry killed by Native American terrorists?
For the sake of simplicity, in the year 2001 attacks killed 2800 civilians in the USA. The population of the US is approximately 230MM. That means your chance of being killed in a terrorist attack on American citizens in 2001 was .00001217391 % . Why do conservatives worry about this? People are far more likely to die in an auto accident, another violent death.
Are there terrorists out there? Yes. Am I going to lose sleep over them? No. I'm willing to sacrifice no more than limited increases in the intelligence budget, but none of my liberties. As for preventing future attacks,take a look at chaos theory and the butterfly effect. That's not liberal, it's just math.
The problem liberals have with Christianity in schools is that not everyone is Christian. My spiritual tradition doesn't have a problem with science or humanism. Many Christian traditions don't either (Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists).
I don't really understand your take on gays, WB. Would 'I think their sex lifes are disgusting but they can do what they want' sum it up?
BTW I don't consider myself liberal. Anarchical hedonist is more accurate.
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
First of all, I think liberals and conservatives alike would agree that Rex is a jack-ass.
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But occasionally a supremely entertaining jackass!!! 
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You wanna hear somthin' funny? The only Republican I've ever voted for was Gerald Ford! He was such a perfect guy for the whacked out 70s!
Your problem with the Christian suppression argument is which Christians do you mean? You don't speak with one voice on much of anything. The country was founded in large part because of differences amongst Christians, AKA the English Civil War. I know Christians that loath the fundamentalist sects.
Reagan promised the FCs everything but delivered them nothing. GHWB did much the same thing. Your nemisis, the Clintons, were far more devout than any of the Repubs (the Reagans were not the church going kind).
As for Christmas, I'll join in the party but I don't want my kid forced to sing songs for the baby Jesus in school. If you're okay with songs celebrating the Goddess at school, maybe I'll consider it.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
A fair question, Jim.
First, in the case of Reagan and the current G.W.Bush, despite that a majority of the nation elected them, they were/are still vilified throughout our culture by non-supporters as closed-minded fanatics and idiots. Even though Christians are the majority.
For example :
Second, just because secularist/liberal activists and judges have made a concerted effort to suppress religious freedom in the U.S. , but haven't successfully leveraged a pro-Christian president out of the White House, doesn't mean that there hasn't been a massive concerted effort to undermine religious freedom.
You said "excluded."
None of your examples points to exclusion.
And it's more accurate to say, I think, "SOME liberal activities and judges..."
You don't like broad, sweeping generalizations pointed at you, do you? You wouldn't like it if I found some Christian doing something I found detestable and then lumped you all into that, would you?
What's bugging you, I think, is that the country isn't as Christian as you want it to be. Where I see it, it's more than Christian enough (see again, Bush, G.W.). We cannot have a theocracy (You and I have surely had this talk before).
The Founding Fathers didn't invoke Christianity as the nominal theory for guiding the actions of the country and they did that, we have to believe, for a reason.
Doesn't behavior such as al Quaeda's tell you that we can't run a country according solely to a specific faith doctrine?
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DtWB said (I mean, trying to exclude Christmas carols in department stores and in local parades! The name of the holiday is CHRISTMAS! No Christmas carols on Christmas, makes sense...)
This wasn't a governmental action, it was a capitalist one. Individual stores made this choice, I don't recall seeing a government mandate removing Christmas.
And I'm with you that the lack of the word "Christmas" this past year was ridiculous. But I don't recall seeing any elected official demanding it.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
First of all, I think liberals and conservatives alike would agree that Rex is a jack-ass.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
What's bugging you, I think, is that the country isn't as Christian as you want it to be. Where I see it, it's more than Christian enough (see again, Bush, G.W.). We cannot have a theocracy (You and I have surely had this talk before).
The Founding Fathers didn't invoke Christianity as the nominal theory for guiding the actions of the country and they did that, we have to believe, for a reason.
Doesn't behavior such as al Quaeda's tell you that we can't run a country according solely to a specific faith doctrine?
Best argument against the separation of church and state ever! 
Good job, Jim!
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No. It's stupid. People riot and go to war over politics as well. Does that mean we should ban or excommunicate it in all its forms?
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No. However, Jim didn't say we should.
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