Same thing holds true with what I posted back than, except of course it's now legal and Bush's wiretapping was retroactively made legal. May I assume your sticking with your previous defense of wiretapping?
“This confirms what we had long suspected,” says Cindy Cohn, an attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), a civil liberties organization that has long accused the government of operating a secret dragnet surveillance program. “We’ve been suing over this since 2006.”
The order is based on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows law enforcement to obtain a wide variety of “business records,” including calling records. EFF has long criticized Section 215, which sets a threshold for obtaining records much lower than the “probable cause” standard required to get a search warrant.
But Cohn argues that the kind of dragnet surveillance suggested by the Verizon order exceeds even the authority granted by the Patriot Act. “Section 215 is written as if they’re going after individual people based on individual investigations,” she says. In contrast, the order leaked to the Guardian affects “millions and millions of innocent people. There’s no way all of our calling records are relevant to a terrorism investigation.”
“I don’t think Congress thought it was authorizing dragnet surveillance” when it passed the Patriot Act, Cohn says. “I don’t think Americans think that’s OK. I would be shocked if the majority of congressmen thought it’s okay.”
So, in this case, the Obamaphiles can't even fall back on "a republican did it first."
WASHINGTON—On the heels of reports that the National Security Agency has secretly been amassing the private telephone records of Verizon’s more than 120 million customers, President Barack Obama announced Thursday that his administration is releasing the entire country’s phone records to the public in an effort to handle the situation with complete transparency. “Honesty and openness have always been the hallmarks of my presidency, which is why I believe that everybody should have free access to this essential information,” the president said at a press conference, encouraging the public to visit a newly created online database containing the time, duration, and location of every wireless and landline phone call made by all 315 million Americans. “We—all of us—are laying our cards on the table here. Now, everyone in the country will know who’s calling whom, and when, and how often, and for how long. My administration doesn’t have any secrets, and from now on, neither will you.” Obama noted that, for the sake of national security, personal emails, consumer reports, and medical histories will remain the exclusive property of the federal government.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
...A handful of in-the-know lawmakers lined up to defend the program, while acknowledging the need to protect privacy.
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House intelligence committee, said the effort is not "data mining," and has helped quash a terrorist attack on U.S. soil in the past few years. He would not elaborate.
The leaders of the Senate intelligence committee also defended the program, saying it is "nothing new." Republican Georgia Sen. Saxby Chambliss said it's been going on for seven years.
WASHINGTON—On the heels of reports that the National Security Agency has secretly been amassing the private telephone records of Verizon’s more than 120 million customers, President Barack Obama announced Thursday that his administration is releasing the entire country’s phone records to the public in an effort to handle the situation with complete transparency. “Honesty and openness have always been the hallmarks of my presidency, which is why I believe that everybody should have free access to this essential information,” the president said at a press conference, encouraging the public to visit a newly created online database containing the time, duration, and location of every wireless and landline phone call made by all 315 million Americans. “We—all of us—are laying our cards on the table here. Now, everyone in the country will know who’s calling whom, and when, and how often, and for how long. My administration doesn’t have any secrets, and from now on, neither will you.” Obama noted that, for the sake of national security, personal emails, consumer reports, and medical histories will remain the exclusive property of the federal government.
I was about to write - "WTF? that's insane!".
Then I saw where the link went. Heh.
This issue made the news here in Australia, by the way. I agree its a big deal. I'm not fan of government intervention in privacy. On the face of it this seems utterly unwarranted.
...A handful of in-the-know lawmakers lined up to defend the program, while acknowledging the need to protect privacy.
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House intelligence committee, said the effort is not "data mining," and has helped quash a terrorist attack on U.S. soil in the past few years. He would not elaborate.
The leaders of the Senate intelligence committee also defended the program, saying it is "nothing new." Republican Georgia Sen. Saxby Chambliss said it's been going on for seven years.
It never ceases to amaze me how quick some people are willing to chuck their rights just so that they can feel safe.
U.S. agencies have secret Internet-monitoring program: The NSA and FBI appear to be casting an even wider net than thought under a clandestine program code-named “PRISM,” which gives the U.S. government access to email, documents, audio, video, photographs and other data belonging to foreigners on foreign soil who are under investigation.
Originally Posted By: the G-man
This presents a dilemma for Obamaphiles.
You will hear the excuse that Bush did it. From people who hated Bush for doing it, but still love Obama.
I think that using software to discover suspicious patterns of call-placement — and going no further without a court order — is reasonable in times of war, and we are at war, and Americans continue to die.
The problem is that President Obama’s administration has a history of using data gathering to harass opponents, as demonstrated most recently by the IRS scandal.
Furthermore, just recently he explained that all wars should end, and accordingly he was ending the War on Terror by divine fiat ...so how can he justify wartime levels of domestic spying?
I think we need more checks and balances on this no matter if it's a d or an r in the White House. People need to decide what they really want instead of playing politics with our national security.
Edward Snowden, the former government contractor who leaked information on the National Security Agency's surveillance programs, says he sought the job with Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence on the agency's data collection networks.
In a June 12 interview with the South China Morning Post published Monday, Snowden, who previously worked as a CIA technician, said he took the position with the intention of collecting information on the NSA.
“My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked,” he said. “That is why I accepted that position about three months ago.”
SCMP reports:
Asked if he specifically went to Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence of surveillance, he replied: “Correct on Booz.” His intention was to collect information about the NSA hacking into “the whole world” and “not specifically Hong Kong and China”.
The documents he divulged to the Post were obtained during his tenure at Booz Allen Hamilton in April, he said.
Snowden also told the Hong Kong newspaper that he intends to leak more documents on the NSA's programs.
Last week, Reuters reported that Booz Allen Hamilton hired Snowden despite finding possible discrepancies in his resume. The Senate has also launched an investigation into USIS, the government contractor that vetted Snowden in 2011.
"We are limited in what we can say about this investigation because it is an ongoing criminal matter," Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) said of the investigation. "But it is a reminder that background investigations can have real consequences for our national security."
According to the latest reports, Snowden has left Hong Kong and is believed to be in Russia. Snowden reportedly did not make a Monday flight to Cuba as planned.
During a Monday conference call with reporters, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said Snowden is "safe and healthy," but would not give further details on his whereabouts.
So he didn't just do his job and discover something wrong with the system. No. Before he even worked at the NSA, he went in with the premeditated treasonous plan to go in to find and leak as much information as he could.
Also suspect is that he first went to our our greatest enemies, China and Russia. I'd be surprised if either of these countries allowed him to leave until they, voluntarily or unvoluntarily, squeezed out every last bit of top secret information Snowden has on U.S. national security.
I think we need more checks and balances on this no matter if it's a d or an r in the White House. People need to decide what they really want instead of playing politics with our national security.
I certainly support more checks and balances.
I had an idea I haven't seen suggested anywhere, that they could set up a review board of retired military officers and intelligence officials, who would independently review all warrants for records. They would already have pensions that could not be threatened, and thus could review independently, while also having great experience with the material they would be reviewing.
If you have a problem with politicizing national security, you should have huge problem with the Obama administration. Examples include leaking every detail of the Bin Ladin raid, to the point that former defense secretary Robert Gates told them to "Shut the fuck up!"
And the Obama administration's betraying --again at the the very highest level, from Obama's White House national security staff-- of Israel's planned attack on Iran from airfields in Aizerbaijan, that would have done out dirty work for us, but had to be scrapped, thanks to the political motivations of Obama's inner circle. Thanks to Clapper or whoever, Iran is still building nukes.
When Obama has a Scooter Liddy he has to pardon for his lying and obstucting you might have something. Than again Dems didn't even than as you and other republicans were concerned.
We can do the partisan crap here but that doesn't help either of us when we both agree that more checks and balances would be nice. Actually it would be more than nice but needed because eventually these types of programs will be misused.
new poll published on Tuesday revealed that Americans are evenly split over the media’s reporting on the federal government’s surveillance programs.
A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center found that while 47 percent of Americans thought that the media should report on the “secret methods gov’t is using to fight terrorism,” 47 percent held the opposite view.
Also, a majority of members of both major parties — 51 percent Republican and 51 percent Democrat — said that they preferred that the media not report on the issue; 43 percent of Republicans and 45 percent of Democrats said they were in favor of the media reporting on the programs
Fifty-one percent of independents, on the other hand, said that they believed the media should report about the anti-terror tactics.
The survey was conducted between July 17 and 21.
“We don’t have a domestic spying program,” President Barack Obama told late-night talk show host Jay Leno Tuesday. “What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terrorist attack.”
Obama’s denial of a domestic spying program came a day after Reuters revealed that a secret unit inside of the Drug Enforcement Administration was funneling tips from the National Security Agency to local law enforcement.
Recipients of a DEA tip were then instructed to lie about how they came about their evidence.
Last week Friday, the administration ordered the closing of 22 U.S. Embassies in the Middle East and Africa due to an intercepted electronic message between al-Qaida leaders about a planned major attack against the U.S. facilities.
The Daily Beast reported on Tuesday that the intercepted message was actually a conference call that took place between senior al-Qaida leaders throughout the region.
NSA Can Track Three-Fourths of American Internet Traffic: The National Security Agency -- which possesses only limited legal authority to spy on U.S. citizens -- has built a surveillance network that covers more Americans' Internet communications than officials have publicly disclosed, current and former officials say.
Hi NSA, if you have a hot chick within your ranks, please ask her to review this thread in a state of undress. It would also be better if she can bite her lip a little bit, because I get off on that.
Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, criticized proposals announced by President Barack Obama to bring more oversight to surveillance carried out by the National Security Agency.
On NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday, McCaul said that in the wake of leaks from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who has been given asylum by Russia, Obama was belatedly “trying to come up with ways to salvage the program by window dressing…. The problem fundamentally is he’s failed to explain these programs, which are lawful, which have saved lives, (and) which have stopped terrorist plots. He has not adequately explained them or defended them.”
That's what the liberal media (who are not even pretending at this point to be anything other than what they truly are: an auxiliary branch of the DNC) always do... find one Republican that voices an opinion they wish to project and ridicule, and say "THIS is what all Republicans think and believe."
Ignoring, of course, all the Republicans who demand investigation, and want to shut down this unconstitutional surveilance. And ignoring that a number of Democrats have defended the un-Constitutional NSA intrusions as well.
What exactly does monitoring and recording 75% of all e-mail and cel-phone calls of AMERICAN CITIZENS have to do with islamic terrorism? Absolutely nothing. It shouldn't be done. It's invading the privacy of more than 220 million Americans, for nothing.
And that's more to the point, it's not about terrorism, it's (as recent activities of IRS, ATF, DEA, OSHA and otheragencies, including NSA prove) about locking down authoritarian control on the American people. And even more specifically, those who are Veterans, self-described "Patriot" groups, Tea Party groups, religious conservative groups who organize political opposition to gay marriage and other views that buck the Politically Correct views of the forming authoritarian state, and other conservative groups. All of which crackdowns have been exposed in recent headlines.
In other words, any who are patriotic toward the America we have been, and who resist what our elites want to radically transform us into.
Data mining was going on long before Obama became President. It was reported on and it wasn't a big deal. If another republican gets into office you'll quit bitching about it.
Data mining was going on long before Obama became President. It was reported on and it wasn't a big deal. If another republican gets into office you'll quit bitching about it.
Abuse of the IRS, ATF, DEA, FBI, OSHA and other federal agencies to intimidate and harass Tea Party, Christian and other political opposition was NOT occurring all along. Attempting to retrieve phone records, recorded calls and e-mails on virtually every American was not occurring before. It was more centered on Islamic terrorism. Under Obama --who can't even allow description of any incident as Islamic terrorism-- the focus is not even still on islamic terror communications. That surveilance is directed inward, at Military veterans, Tea Party, Christian conservatives, and those who describe themselves as "Patriots".
And I've seen interviews of several former NSA employees who say where they were in opposition and/or quit because of abuses under W. Bush's presidency, they are terrified of how much more is occurring under Obama. What one described as "beyond anything Orwell could have imagined."
I know you think it's your job to sell the DNC party line and say "move along, keep moving, nothing to see here", but it is an absolute lie to say this was going on 5 years ago.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Posting a emoticon doesn't even come close to providing the slightest evidence to back that claim.
M E M, you are in blatant denial of the overwhelming evidence of Obama/DNC abuse of power. And Obama's crash in the polls in recent weeks reflects that. (Even despite the Obama cock-slurping media doing its damnedest to fly cover for him and diminish coverage.)
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
"I'm glad the federal government shut down! For the first time in years, you can send e-mails and talk on the phone without anyone listening in!" --Jay Leno
You always make allegations but so far pppfffft. Like I said you'll be ok with it if there's ever another republican in the WH.
I guess you missed all the times I said the Patriot Act went too far [under Bush], and that we should be able to defend the nation by simply fully enforcing the existing laws.
Likewise, we should enforce existing immigration and border security laws, without "comprehensive immigration reform" (which is just code for giving amnesty to illegals).
So... I'm not okay with a Republican doing it either.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
Why reporters fear Team Obama: Relying on the 1917 Espionage Act, which was rarely invoked before President Obama took office, this administration has secretly used the phone and e-mail records of government officials and reporters to identify and prosecute government sources for national-security stories.
So Obama is using the same authoritarian tactics that the Chinese have used, when they hacked into the New York Times' employee e-mail accounts to find Chinese government informants to the Times.
Obama's use of the 1917 Espionage Act follows the path of the 1917 Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin Act.
So Obama is using the same authoritarian tactics that the Chinese have used, when they hacked into the New York Times' employee e-mail accounts to find Chinese government informants to the Times...
Not surprising, when you consider that Obama has a history of praising the Chi-coms.
NSA collecting millions of contact lists: the spy agency intercepts hundreds of thousands of email address books every day from private accounts on Yahoo, Gmail, Facebook and Hotmail that move though global data links. The NSA also collects about a half million buddy lists from live chat services and email accounts.
I figured that --like the IRS scandal with Lois Lerner, and leading up to the Obama White House, and harassing conservative groups and donors with IRS, ATF, FBI, OSHA, DEA, etc.-- Obamacare (as a part of Obama's lockdown system) would deceitfully find a way to leak data to other branches of Obama's gestapo.
But I never would have expected something as overt as this. We truly live in frightening times.
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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